Cacheman
Ultra MAGA!
The park was also just reopened to the public yesterday so did someone just happen to run into things?
CRIME Items belonging to fugitive Brian Laundrie found at Florida park. UPDATE: Human Remains Confirmed as Brian Laundrie
- Thread starter Cacheman
- Start date
thompson
Certa Bonum Certamen
@ShannonCwtsp
I asked the #Laundrie family attorney, Steven Bertolino, if #BrianLaundrie’s remains were found, he said “no comment”
I then asked if human remains were found, he said “no comment”
I asked the #Laundrie family attorney if he has reason to believe #BrianLaundrie could be suicidal, again, “no comment”
I asked for clarification from #BrianLaundrie’s attorney if Brian’s parents were at the reserve this morning to identify his belongings or to search for him? “Nothing further” is what Bertolino responded
I asked the #Laundrie family attorney, Steven Bertolino, if #BrianLaundrie’s remains were found, he said “no comment”
I then asked if human remains were found, he said “no comment”
I asked the #Laundrie family attorney if he has reason to believe #BrianLaundrie could be suicidal, again, “no comment”
I asked for clarification from #BrianLaundrie’s attorney if Brian’s parents were at the reserve this morning to identify his belongings or to search for him? “Nothing further” is what Bertolino responded
This case is -beyond- baffling.
Did not hundreds of LEO types search this area with a fine tooth comb and find nothing? Now stuff pops up.Either it's him OR someone recognized him and he killed them OR he killed them and left his stuff behind thinking they would think it's him.
OR AnnieO watches too many crime shows
Interesting.
thompson
Certa Bonum Certamen
While we wait, I saw this posted elsewhere and thought others might be interested.. DOES NOT pertain to the Laundrie case directly. Pics at the source.
What the dog smelled: The science and mystery of cadaver dogs | CBC News
Chris Oke · CBC News · Posted: Jul 23, 2016 9:00 AM ET | Last Updated: July 23, 2016
They can catch a whiff of human remains under 30 metres of water or buried in a mine shaft, and can tell the difference between, say, a dead raccoon and a dead hiker. And yet scientists still aren't 100 per cent sure how cadaver dogs manage to do this and the training community is still figuring out how to train them most effectively.
Dive teams spent 12 days searching the waters of Elliot Lake in northern Ontario and didn't find a thing.
When the cadaver dogs were called in, they needed just 15 minutes.
Six young people had been making their way home from a night of drinking on an island when their overloaded canoe capsized. Everyone made it back to shore, except for 20-year-old Vinnie Yeo.
One of the volunteers called in to help search for the body was Kim Cooper, a founding member of the Ottawa Valley Search and Rescue Dog Association, and the owner of one of the three cadaver dogs on the scene that July day in 1999.
Her Malinois named Piper was perched at the front of a boat as it slowly trolled the search area, sniffing at the water below. Fifteen minutes later, the dog turned to Cooper and let out a series of loud barks
Piper was the second dog to indicate in this spot.
The divers searched the area and found Yeo's backpack. The next day, they found a case of beer that had been in the canoe. The day after that, they found his body.
"It was quite a deep find," Cooper said. "Yet at the same time, the dogs were absolutely positive that they had him."
Not only can these dogs detect the scent of human remains under 30 metres of water, some can also detect traces as small as a shard of bone or drop of blood. They can also tell the difference between, say, a dead raccoon and a dead hiker.
And yet scientists still aren't 100 per cent sure how they do it and the training community is still figuring out how to train them most effectively.
'Body Farm'
"Most think an odour is just made of one chemical, when in reality it is made up of dozens or hundreds of chemicals," said Arpad Vass, a research scientist at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee.
Vass is a leading expert on decomposition odour analysis, and conducts his studies at the University of Tennessee's "Body Farm" — a research facility where human bodies are allowed to decompose in a variety of settings.
He still isn't completely sure why dogs are able to track decomposition scents so effectively. But in a recent paper he narrowed it down to a few organic compounds unique to humans that may offer possible explanations.
Mapping the hundreds of unique odours of human decomposition in all its stages could help with cadaver dog training and may even allow technology to replace cadaver dogs one day.
"The problem is only one of sensitivity," Vass said. "Canines, I'm pretty sure, are in the parts per trillion detection range and instruments are only reliable down to parts per billion."
Small number make the grade
Potential cadaver dogs start their training as young as eight weeks old and are usually certified at around two years old.
Breed isn't overly important. The dogs just need to be very energetic and very motivated to work for a reward. However, typical cadaver dog breeds are German shepherds, Malinois and Labrador retrievers.
Only fifteen dogs have qualified to work with the Ottawa Valley Search and Rescue Dog Association in the past 25 years.
Kim Cooper has personally trained five of them.
The most important part of the training is to expose the dogs to as many human remains as possible.
Cooper said human bones can be ordered off the internet from companies with names like Skulls Unlimited and The Bone Room. She occasionally gets access to the surface, be it a piece of carpet or some dirt, for example, on which a body was found.
But the most common training aid is placenta, donated by new moms.
"I'm in the habit of congratulating family members and in the second sentence saying, 'So, what are you doing with your placenta?" said Cooper, who has a few placentas in her freezer at home.
She said a handler will train a dog with the same odour source for approximately six months so the dog learns the subtle changes that take place during decomposition.
"It takes a little while to build up a solid stomach, so that you don't get too disgusted with what you're hauling around anymore," she said.
The pig problem
Mary Cablk of the Desert Research Institute in Reno, Nev., is in the unique position of being both a scientist and a cadaver dog trainer.
She conducted a study on the compounds of human decomposition compared to those of cows, pigs and chickens.
The smell of decomposing pigs was least similar to that of humans, which is a problem for cadaver dog trainers in the U.K., where it's illegal to possess human remains.
They'd been using pigs as training aids for years. But as Cablk points out, "If you have a dog trained on pigs, then you have a dog trained to find dead pigs."
Double blind
Such discoveries have played an important part in the ongoing professionalization of cadaver dog testing and training.
In 2011, Lisa Lit, a researcher at the University of California, Davis, found that what a handler already knows can affect the outcome of their dog's search.
The study was done using dogs trained to find drugs and explosives, but Cablk says the findings divided the cadaver dog community.
If handlers weren't using blind testing (where the handler doesn't know the location of the target scent) or double blind testing (where both the handler and test adjudicator don't know the target) then the dogs could simply be picking up on unconscious cues from the handler, not the scent itself.
"It's one of those things that, to a scientist, it makes perfect sense," Cablk said. "But dog handlers are not scientists."
Over the past five years, training bodies across North America have developed a more scientific approach to training and certification.
Piece of skull
In June, Kim Cooper took her cadaver dogs Breeze and Grief to Massachusetts to get re-certified with the North American Police Work Dog Association.
"We were very excited this year because one of the [training] aids was a piece of skull, so we got to work on a human skull," she said.
"Something new to put into our list of things that we've done."
What the dog smelled: The science and mystery of cadaver dogs | CBC News
Chris Oke · CBC News · Posted: Jul 23, 2016 9:00 AM ET | Last Updated: July 23, 2016
They can catch a whiff of human remains under 30 metres of water or buried in a mine shaft, and can tell the difference between, say, a dead raccoon and a dead hiker. And yet scientists still aren't 100 per cent sure how cadaver dogs manage to do this and the training community is still figuring out how to train them most effectively.
Dive teams spent 12 days searching the waters of Elliot Lake in northern Ontario and didn't find a thing.
When the cadaver dogs were called in, they needed just 15 minutes.
Six young people had been making their way home from a night of drinking on an island when their overloaded canoe capsized. Everyone made it back to shore, except for 20-year-old Vinnie Yeo.
One of the volunteers called in to help search for the body was Kim Cooper, a founding member of the Ottawa Valley Search and Rescue Dog Association, and the owner of one of the three cadaver dogs on the scene that July day in 1999.
Her Malinois named Piper was perched at the front of a boat as it slowly trolled the search area, sniffing at the water below. Fifteen minutes later, the dog turned to Cooper and let out a series of loud barks
Piper was the second dog to indicate in this spot.
The divers searched the area and found Yeo's backpack. The next day, they found a case of beer that had been in the canoe. The day after that, they found his body.
"It was quite a deep find," Cooper said. "Yet at the same time, the dogs were absolutely positive that they had him."
Not only can these dogs detect the scent of human remains under 30 metres of water, some can also detect traces as small as a shard of bone or drop of blood. They can also tell the difference between, say, a dead raccoon and a dead hiker.
And yet scientists still aren't 100 per cent sure how they do it and the training community is still figuring out how to train them most effectively.
'Body Farm'
"Most think an odour is just made of one chemical, when in reality it is made up of dozens or hundreds of chemicals," said Arpad Vass, a research scientist at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee.
Vass is a leading expert on decomposition odour analysis, and conducts his studies at the University of Tennessee's "Body Farm" — a research facility where human bodies are allowed to decompose in a variety of settings.
He still isn't completely sure why dogs are able to track decomposition scents so effectively. But in a recent paper he narrowed it down to a few organic compounds unique to humans that may offer possible explanations.
Mapping the hundreds of unique odours of human decomposition in all its stages could help with cadaver dog training and may even allow technology to replace cadaver dogs one day.
"The problem is only one of sensitivity," Vass said. "Canines, I'm pretty sure, are in the parts per trillion detection range and instruments are only reliable down to parts per billion."
Small number make the grade
Potential cadaver dogs start their training as young as eight weeks old and are usually certified at around two years old.
Breed isn't overly important. The dogs just need to be very energetic and very motivated to work for a reward. However, typical cadaver dog breeds are German shepherds, Malinois and Labrador retrievers.
Only fifteen dogs have qualified to work with the Ottawa Valley Search and Rescue Dog Association in the past 25 years.
Kim Cooper has personally trained five of them.
The most important part of the training is to expose the dogs to as many human remains as possible.
Cooper said human bones can be ordered off the internet from companies with names like Skulls Unlimited and The Bone Room. She occasionally gets access to the surface, be it a piece of carpet or some dirt, for example, on which a body was found.
But the most common training aid is placenta, donated by new moms.
"I'm in the habit of congratulating family members and in the second sentence saying, 'So, what are you doing with your placenta?" said Cooper, who has a few placentas in her freezer at home.
She said a handler will train a dog with the same odour source for approximately six months so the dog learns the subtle changes that take place during decomposition.
"It takes a little while to build up a solid stomach, so that you don't get too disgusted with what you're hauling around anymore," she said.
The pig problem
Mary Cablk of the Desert Research Institute in Reno, Nev., is in the unique position of being both a scientist and a cadaver dog trainer.
She conducted a study on the compounds of human decomposition compared to those of cows, pigs and chickens.
The smell of decomposing pigs was least similar to that of humans, which is a problem for cadaver dog trainers in the U.K., where it's illegal to possess human remains.
They'd been using pigs as training aids for years. But as Cablk points out, "If you have a dog trained on pigs, then you have a dog trained to find dead pigs."
Double blind
Such discoveries have played an important part in the ongoing professionalization of cadaver dog testing and training.
In 2011, Lisa Lit, a researcher at the University of California, Davis, found that what a handler already knows can affect the outcome of their dog's search.
The study was done using dogs trained to find drugs and explosives, but Cablk says the findings divided the cadaver dog community.
If handlers weren't using blind testing (where the handler doesn't know the location of the target scent) or double blind testing (where both the handler and test adjudicator don't know the target) then the dogs could simply be picking up on unconscious cues from the handler, not the scent itself.
"It's one of those things that, to a scientist, it makes perfect sense," Cablk said. "But dog handlers are not scientists."
Over the past five years, training bodies across North America have developed a more scientific approach to training and certification.
Piece of skull
In June, Kim Cooper took her cadaver dogs Breeze and Grief to Massachusetts to get re-certified with the North American Police Work Dog Association.
"We were very excited this year because one of the [training] aids was a piece of skull, so we got to work on a human skull," she said.
"Something new to put into our list of things that we've done."
thompson
Certa Bonum Certamen
This part of the reserve was under quite a bit of water until fairly recently.
SmithJ
Veteran Member
One article I saw said this was an area that had been underwater until the last few days. I only saw that comment once though.
Some people are saying the current scene has been flooded until recently.
Fine, regardless, how was today's find made so amazingly fast? At that exact spot?
Still not clear who found the belongings and body parts.
The Laundries, the cops, the feds, random hiker dude? Who?
WTH?
I went and read the article before I commented. It was so full on innuendo and slant that it walked on its side. And the pictures made it look like they were close enough to the Laundries to be up their butt. There’s another one out there that because 7 bodies have been found in areas that Laundrie Was reportedly seen in, he could be a serial killer.
Journalists have zero integrity when they have to sell advertising space.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
If this wasn't such a serious matter I'd say they have found a garage door pull.
I see what you did there.
Why should the lawyer be required to? Because the public demands it? Yeah. Right. Both those people - Laundries and Petito - were messed up. But they were/are still adults with constitutional rights.
There is no justice left in this country. The White House does its thing. Right on down the line. With no accountability.
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not the court of public opinion.
WFLA TV chopper just arrived over the scene
Live,
WFLA Now: Partial human remains found during search for Brian Laundrie, reports say
View: https://youtu.be/fuo-ErNGmAA
Live,
WFLA Now: Partial human remains found during search for Brian Laundrie, reports say
I said that only because the lawyer apparently wanted to leave the impression that the Laundrie parents initiated the search.
Steven Bertolino, who represents the Laundrie family, confirmed to Fox News Digital that the Laundries informed law enforcement last night of their intentions to search the park and met officers there.
thompson
Certa Bonum Certamen
View: https://twitter.com/WFLAJosh/status/1450885195377352708?s=20
Josh Benson
@WFLAJosh
BREAKING.
@NBCNews
reports a senior law enforcement official that what appears to be partial human remains were found in an area previously underwater. The remains were found near a backpack consistent with items Brian Laundrie may have had.
Josh Benson
@WFLAJosh
BREAKING.
@NBCNews
reports a senior law enforcement official that what appears to be partial human remains were found in an area previously underwater. The remains were found near a backpack consistent with items Brian Laundrie may have had.
Did he?
Given the constantly contradictory reporting on this story “impressions” and what they are built on in this case are about as unreliable as they come. When someone makes a made for TV movie of this stuff - and you know they will because of the money involved - I bet the timeline and what happened along it and who initiated what is going to be different than many think. And the script writers will rearrange things even more to suit their plot lines.
In other words, this might not be Laundrie but one of any number of homeless people known to frequent the area and use it for a camping spot.
But it could. But maybe not.
It is a huge area. I had a hard time finding a decomposed body, with 5 other cops, that we could smell, in a brush covered property when I was a crime scene technician. FL underbrush is nearly unpassable without cutting your way through it.
bw
Fringe Ranger
It's a cottage industry.
thompson
Certa Bonum Certamen
Shows the distance between the two tents..
View: https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1450897636001714176?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1450897636001714176?s=20
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
Link?
So it would appear. I just hope no one here winds up having to deal with that sort of thing. Having been on that end I can tell you it sucks bigfoots left big toe. And all because some little **** didn't get her security deposit back. When it comes to certain females the males in my family no longer deal with them at a certain point. Momma Hen takes over and will back them the frell up even if she starts being known as a five-letter word. Momma don't play that.
I see so many so-called constitutionally minded people and so-called journalists with integrity confusing facts and assumptions way too often these days.
I think it was from the US Sun website. I'm doing research for a story and all these ignorant things keep popping up having nothing to do with what I'm trying to research. Irritating as heck.
thompson
Certa Bonum Certamen
FBI Tampa
@FBITampa
UPDATE: Items of interest were located at the Carlton Reserve this morning in connection with the search for Brian Laundrie. An #FBI Evidence Response team is processing the scene. The reserve is closed to the public and no further details are available at this time.
@FBIDenver
2:10 PM
@FBITampa
UPDATE: Items of interest were located at the Carlton Reserve this morning in connection with the search for Brian Laundrie. An #FBI Evidence Response team is processing the scene. The reserve is closed to the public and no further details are available at this time.
@FBIDenver
2:10 PM
Mprepared
Veteran Member
I saw this earlier. Seems to be bodies all over the country, which this just reminded me of that man that was investigating missing people and the little 5-year-old girl missing and something about bodies around water. Just evil everywhere. Manhunt for Brian Laundrie leads authorities to at least 5 bodies of missing persons
thompson
Certa Bonum Certamen
"At any moment in the next hour or two" 
Lordy!
Alexa Serowik
@AlexaSerowik
·
2m
BREAKING: FBI will reportedly provide an update at any moment in the next hour or two after “items of interest” were located at The Carlton Reserve this morning in connection with #BrianLaundrie
Lordy!Alexa Serowik
@AlexaSerowik
·
2m
BREAKING: FBI will reportedly provide an update at any moment in the next hour or two after “items of interest” were located at The Carlton Reserve this morning in connection with #BrianLaundrie
Josie
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Over a month of searching, the parents show up and WHOOP, there it is. Kind of a cowinky dink that the park opened to the public just yesterday, too.
Could they not also be items that any backpacker/homeless would carry also?
Cacheman
Ultra MAGA!
Parents were asked by police to come there
Assumptions. All you have to do is put one or two facts out of timeline and then omit one or two facts and wham, bam, thank you ma'am ... here's a script for a brand new made for tv movie.
It was already established that the park had been closed until yesterday.
The Laundries have protestors and journalists up their butts 24/7 and cannot even open their home door(s) without the sainted paparazzi taking both pics and film.
It was already established that they were asked by LE to go back to the park and that they were accompanied by at least one officer until the items were found at which time they were told to leave.
Given what has been reported (I know, I know) the Laundries were not alone when the items were found.
Most of this appears to be on film of one sort or another given the photos that are floating around on the 'net.
It may not have been the Laundries that found the possible human remains, in fact given what has been released in photos and other reporting it would appear that it was not until after the Laundries were asked to show them where their son had camped in the past now that the area had dried up, they were probably hustled out of the area by local cops because the remains were found by other searchers already in amongst the mess.
As for the items, since the park was reopened yesterday or the day before, if these are intentionally placed items, it could be a protestor that did this to keep things going so they can make money off of their monetized blogs and such.
There are a lot of possibilities out there. It all depends on how the facts are spun.
Not according to the Laundrie lawyer,
Steven Bertolino, who represents the Laundrie family, confirmed to Fox News Digital that the Laundries informed law enforcement last night of their intentions to search the park and met officers there. Bertolino confirmed that while searching areas that Brian frequented, "some articles belonging to Brian were found."
Josie
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Can you point me in the right direction for this report? Because according to the family's lawyer, THEY informed the police of THEIR intentions. I'm just going by Fox News report.