FOOD Is NC ready to become a three-party state (barbecue-wise)?

FarmerJohn

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Smoking out mountain barbecue :p:p:p
John and Dale Reed muse on the regional 'cue scene
by Hanna Rachel Raskin in Vol. 15 / Iss. 14 on 10/29/2008
When it comes to barbecue, North Carolina is pretty much a two-party state.

There are two competing camps in the pit-cooked pig arena: The Eastern faction, which favors whole hog sauced with vinegar, and the Piedmont contingent, which backs pork shoulder with a tomato-laced sauce. ‘Cue aficionados with the audacity to embrace alternate platforms—say, the blueberry-chipotle ribs presidential candidate Barack Obama may have ordered during his much-publicized visit to 12 Bones Smokehouse, or the baked potato with pimento cheese and brisket available at Luella’s—have long been dismissed as oddballs, curious guests at the state’s sauce-stained table.

But Southern food scholars John Shelton Reed and Dale Volberg Reed, who really have written the book on North Carolina barbecue and will visit Malaprop’s next week to talk about it, say the prevailing bipartisan system may be on the wane. They sense there’s a third style on the brink of legitimacy.

Up till now, barbecue allegiances have been determined by geography: An eater’s exit on Interstate 40 was a fairly safe predictor of sauce preference. But North Carolina’s big cities and coastal and mountain towns have lately coalesced around a very different version of ‘cue that makes use of meats and sauces heretofore foreign to the Tar Heel State.

“There’s a place in Murphy called Herb’s that’s cooking loins and collars,” John Reed exclaims. “The license plates on the walls are from New York and Florida. And then you’ve got those guys in Black Mountain who came from Alabama. These places came to the game late, and they didn’t learn their craft from Lexington, N.C. Most of them are cooking what people from Ohio expect when they go to a barbecue place.

“I don’t know if this will ever settle down and produce a mountain style, but you may be seeing an emerging third,” he predicts.

The Reeds come by their sagacity honestly, having thoroughly familiarized themselves with every aspect of North Carolina barbecue while writing Holy Smoke: The Big Book of North Carolina Barbecue (University of North Carolina Press, 2008). After years of research conducted in libraries, kitchens and roadside restaurants, the Reeds are well-versed in everything from charcoal choice to cole slaw recipes.

“But we don’t just give you slaw recipes,” Dale Reed says. “It’s all history, from beginning to end. What we didn’t want to do was write a guidebook. Those go out of date. We wanted to write about how barbecue fits into the scheme of things.”

The book is divided into three sections, starting with a chapter on barbecue history that dispels some cherished culinary myths, including the long-suspect claim that barbecue owes its name to “barbe-a-queue,” a French phrase meaning “from beard to tail.” “John put that to rest,” Dale Reed says.

The Reeds also rigorously dispute the notion that “pig-pickings” are a longstanding tradition. While the concept may be a carry-over from previous generations, nobody set the words in print until 1971, when they were uttered in the course of a Congressional-committee hearing. After that, John Reed says, “it started popping up all over the state.”

The book’s second section is devoted to an exploration of the various side dishes that typically accompany barbecue, with recipes to match. “We wanted to make it possible for someone who wasn’t raised making cornbread to have North Carolina barbecue,” Dale Reed explains. After a chapter of interviews with practitioners, conducted by UNC Barbecue Society founder William McKinney, Holy Smoke winds up with an elegy for wood-fired pits.

“We would have called it the sacred and the propane,” Dale Reed jokes.

Citing cost and convenience, more North Carolina pit masters are switching from wood to gas, a move the Reeds consider an unspeakable shame. Which raises the inevitable philosophical question: If a man from Pennsylvania moves to Hendersonville and smokes Memphis-style ribs in a gas-powered pit, can his product be classified as North Carolina barbecue? How innovative can mountain and coastal pit masters get before they’re just plain heating meat?

“That’s where the great mushy middle comes from,” Dale Reed sighs.

“We’ve lost any control over what North Carolina barbecue means,” John Reed says. “A couple of the biggest operations stopped cooking with wood a long time ago, and still call it barbecue. If I was commissar, to call it barbecue, it would have to be cooked with coals. You couldn’t use electric alone.”
He adds: “You can call it barbecue with any sauce, or no sauce it all. I’m not sure you can call it North Carolina barbecue.”

Eastern North Carolinians were likely similarly dismissive when upstart Lexington pitmasters started adding tomato ketchup to their dip. The Piedmont style is a relatively recent phenomenon, dating back only to the World War I era. The innovations, the Reeds write, “were something new in the North Carolina barbecue world, and they were viewed by many Easterners with much the same enthusiasm that the medieval Catholic Church had for the Protestant Reformation.”

John Reed adds: “Lexington barbecue was invented in 1917, but now they’re more conservative than people in the East. The only changes these restaurants have made have to do with carpentry.”

It remains to be seen whether mountaineers will be able to follow the Piedmont pitmasters’ example and successfully carve out a niche in the North Carolina barbecue canon. Barbecue isn’t new to the mountains—“the folks at King’s Mountain were having a barbecue when Ferguson insulted them,” Reed says, referring to the 1780 Revolutionary War battle—but the traditional dearth of barbecue restaurants in the West (an aberration even the Reeds can’t explain) has muted the region’s contribution to the statewide conversation.

“The mountains,” John Reed says, “are up for grabs.”
 

The Freeholder

Inactive
The NC mountains are becoming the destination of choice for displaced Yankees who, tired of screwing up their homes, are retiring there to screw up ours. They--and their oddball tastes in BBQ--need to go the heck home.
 

buff

Deceased
There is only one NC Q...

thats here in the east.

my year spent in bbq hell in greensboro was torture with (gasp) chopped bbq with that weird tomato sauce crap.

real Q is pulled with vinegar hot pepper sauce.

and if i want a pig sandwich, i want extra slaw on it with some texas pete....


mmmm.mmmm
 

fruit loop

Inactive
NC barbecue tastes pickled.

Want real barbecue? Go to Texas, where it's slow-smoked over mesquite.

I depend on Red Hot N Blue for barbecue here. There's is Memphis-style, but it's better than that vinegary goo the Carolinians call barbecue.
 

gelatinous

Eyes WIDE Open
You guys in some states like Texas are SO lucky. There is hardly anybody out here in Oregon who knows what a real BBQ is like. There are a few exceptions of course (Campbells in Portland comes to mind).

On a trip to San Antonio, TX a couple of years ago I was in BBQ heaven. I think there was one at least every few blocks.
 

fruit loop

Inactive
Best barbecue in the world:

County Line Barbecue in Austin, Texas.

"BBQ, sex, and death are topics of great debate among Texans. Of the three, BBQ is taken most seriously."
 

buff

Deceased
Want real barbecue? Go to Texas, where it's slow-smoked over mesquite.

Fruit...I know we have had differences in the past. but i draw the line right here and now. get out of my state. take 40 west to 85 south. then take 20 west and go. these here are fighting words.

bbq comes from a pig...not a cow. not now, not ever....

your license to ever become or be called a tarheel is revoked.
 

RB Martin

Veteran Member
Fruit...I know we have had differences in the past. but i draw the line right here and now. get out of my state. take 40 west to 85 south. then take 20 west and go. these here are fighting words.

bbq comes from a pig...not a cow. not now, not ever....

your license to ever become or be called a tarheel is revoked.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
+10!
 

CelticRose

Membership Revoked
Well guess I'll rile some up here.........

But I love BBQ. All kinds of BBQ.

Whole hog done right with a tangy vinager and pulled off in juicey strips and served with dense, sweet cornbread ........ Or slow smoked brisket with a hot and sweet tomato based sauce and cornbread with a side of creamy slaw and ranch style beans.........

Love the whole world of BBQ. Something about the sweet perfume that laces the air......

And much to the dismay of some, I make my cornbread dense, touched with the sweetness of sugar and rich with lot of butter and eggs. Even better the next day for breakfast, either in a bowl with milk or warmed and smeared with jam.......
 

fruit loop

Inactive
Hams and bacon are the only way to eat a pig. If you're normal, that is.

Smoked brisket is barbecue. You folks don't know what you're missing.

I will give it up to the Tarheels on moonshine, though. Y'all's is the best I've ever tasted. Can't beat that Johnston County Water.
 

buff

Deceased
And much to the dismay of some, I make my cornbread dense, touched with the sweetness of sugar and rich with lot of butter and eggs. Even better the next day for breakfast,

no dismay from me...that post my my stomach growl. now i want some cornbread.
 

hrspwr

Inactive
The only proper way to make any meat edible is to smoke it.
Hickory is the ONLY type of wood allowed and flame is only to touch the meat briefly at the end of cooking to seer in the flavor.
Tomato sauce is for spaghetti. Vinegar is for french fries.
 

CelticRose

Membership Revoked
no dismay from me...that post my my stomach growl. now i want some cornbread.

Well here's the recipe for what I think is the perfect cornbread. For eating, that is. If I'm making up cornbread to use to make cornbread dressing, it's not sweet or as rich. It works better then to sop up all the flavors of the dressing ;)

But for a cornbread that just begs to be slathered in butterand maybe a drizzle of honey, this is the best :D



3 cups all-purpose flour
1 3/4 cups yellow cornmeal
3/4 cup sugar
2 tablespoons baking powder
1 tablespoon salt
5 extra large eggs
1 cup milk
1 cup water
1/2 cup butter, melted
1/3 cup vegetable oil
1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract (optional)


Mix the dry ingredients in a large bowl.

Beat the eggs until thick.

Make a well in the dry ingredients and pour in the milk, water, melted buter, oil, vanilla (if you're using it) and eggs.

Stir until just mixed.

Pour into awell greased 9 x 13 baking pan. I like to line mine with parchment paper and then grease it. Just makes getting it out fool-proof ;)

Bake at 375 degrees for abour 25 to 35 minutes. Till just lightly golden brown on top. I start checking it at about 25 minutes so I don't get it too brown. And ovens vary, too ;)

This is so dense and so moist and just perfect for a meal with just some beans and slaw...... I'm not always in the mood for meat, so this is what I like to sop up the juice when I make slow cooked green and red beans and rice, for dinner ..... :)
 

Ambros

Veteran Member
there is a little bbq shack in junction texas, i pass through there alot on my trucking route to san antonio and other p laces in south texas...cant remember the name of it but wow its soooo good........now im hungry :(
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Funny. I'm from Alabama, and I learned to cook BBQ over an open pit with a hickory wood fire in front of it. Coals from the fire were shoveled into the pit, and what was on the grill was all pork shoulders. Never heard of cooking a whole pig till I got to NC.

I have changed my opinion on sauce since I moved to eastern NC though. Apple cider vinegar poured over plain crushed red pepper and allowed to soak for a few days will do just fine as is, doesn't need anything else. Works well on collard greens and blackeyed peas too.

And I like my hush puppies with a little onion, please. 8^) House-Autry mix will do in a pinch. http://www.house-autry.com/retail/product.aspx?id=11

dd
 

Hermit

Inactive
..... ‘Cue aficionados with the audacity to embrace alternate platforms—say, the blueberry-chipotle ribs presidential candidate Barack Obama may have ordered ....”
:shkr: Nooooo!!! Now I understand why you all oppose him so strongly.


Seriously though, that sounds kind of intriguing.
 

KerryAnn

Inactive
My folks are die-hard Piedmont BBQ fans and hubby is an Eastern BBQ fan. I regularly get taken to task for daring to marry such a man. Family gatherings are always great fun. ;)

Here in the Mountains, you can get both so I don't have to listen to too much war nowadays. When we lived in the Eastern part of the state, it was a different story.
 

RCSAR

Veteran Member
Texas, Smoked meat with sauce on the side if its good sauce.
Thats hard to beat.

I have never had the vinigar stuff from NC but I have eaten almost every critter smoked over mesquite. At least no one here os calling grilling, BBQ.
 

gelatinous

Eyes WIDE Open
Best barbecue in the world:

County Line Barbecue in Austin, Texas.

"BBQ, sex, and death are topics of great debate among Texans. Of the three, BBQ is taken most seriously."

Maybe they have more than one? The one closest to the hotel in San Antonio was called The County Line. That was THE BEST of all of them.

One of the persons from the company I was training at took us to a place called "Rudy's BBQ" and they claimed to have the worst BBQ in Texas. Well they were right. The meal was served on a flat plastic soda case (a 24 can type!) with a piece of butcher paper as a liner. You're supposed to just eat straight off of the paper. The food was mediocre at best IMHO. Very tacky.
 

gelatinous

Eyes WIDE Open
Dang! I'm almost ready to get DW and head on up to Salem or Portland for dinner at one of the wannabe BBQ's. This thread is making me hungry!
 
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