GOV/MIL IRS demands $2.1 million from 82-year-old grandmother who failed to file the correct banking form

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________

IRS demands $2.1 million from 82-year-old grandmother who failed to file the correct banking form​


An 82-year-old grandmother from Boston is headed to the Supreme Court after the IRS demanded she pay $2.1 million in penalties for failing to file the proper banking form.

When antisemitism and fascism began taking hold in 1930s Germany, Monica Toth’s family fled to Argentina. There, Toth was born in 1940.

At 22, Toth immigrated to the United States, where she married and, in 1980, became a naturalized citizen.



Toth’s father became quite a successful businessman in Buenos Aires, and prior to his death in 1999, he opened for his daughter a Swiss bank account, in which he placed roughly $4.2 million in the event his little girl may one day have to flee the persecution of her government as he once had done, the New York Post reports.

U.S. law requires nationals or permanent residents to file a one-page form called a “Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts” report (FBAR) if they have a foreign bank account with a balance greater than $10,000. The FBAR must be submitted to the IRS every year.

Ignorant of the requirement until 2010, Toth was audited by the IRS. She promptly filed five years’ worth of FBAR reports and paid $40,000 in back taxes, according to the Institute for Justice, a non-profit dedicated to ending “widespread abuses of government power” and protecting the constitutional rights of Americans.

The IRS could have thanked Toth for paying the owed taxes in full as soon as she was made aware of her error, but instead, the agency deemed her reporting violation to be “reckless” and “willful,” and demanded that she fork over more than $2 million — the maximum civil penalty they could impose.

Initially attempting to battle the IRS on her own, Toth represented herself in court and raised a defense based on the Eighth Amendment’s Excessive Fines Clause.

Both the district court and the 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals shot down her argument, with the First Circuit ruling that her penalty “is not a ‘fine,'” and thus, “the Excessive Fines Clause of the Eighth Amendment does not apply to it.” The court refused to consider whether the exorbitant penalty was excessive.

“That interpretation of the Eighth Amendment is profoundly wrong,” the Institute for Justice argues. “As the IRS’s National Taxpayer Advocate warned last year, ‘The maximum FBAR penalty is among the harshest civil penalties the government may impose.’ It is precisely the sort of punishment the Excessive Fines Clause serves to check.”

The grandmother’s case, now represented by the Institute, is now headed to the Supreme Court.

“Across the country, Americans suffer from abusive fines,” said IJ Attorney Brian Morris. “The Eighth Amendment is their protection. But if the government can escape judicial scrutiny of ruinous fines by clever wording, nothing would be out of the government’s reach.”

The case comes as the IRS has received an $80 billion boost and a bunch of weapons from the Biden administration’s Inflation Reduction Act.

“Fines, fees and forfeitures, if unrestrained, threaten Americans’ cherished liberties,” said IJ President and General Counsel Scott Bullock. “The courts must respect the Constitution and control the government’s impulse to prioritize revenue over people’s lives.”

 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Renouncing her citizenship won't help her at that point. You do know you have to PAY a fee to renounce your citizenship AND PAY ANY TAXES OWED to the government before "THEY" will accept/approve revoking citizenship. Which is friggen STUPID!!

If I were going to renounce my citizenship I'd simply send them a letter with this on it
":fgr: :fgr2: :fgr:" and apply for citizenship in another country. SCREW 'EM!!
 

Voortrekker

Veteran Member
Which goes to show you, that we are property of the Federal Reserve Bank and the subsidiary Bancruptcy Liquidation Corporation UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Citizenship is subjugation, a citizen is a subject. The "united States of America" was dissolved in 1913.
 

Cardinal

Chickministrator
_______________
Renouncing her citizenship won't help her at that point. You do know you have to PAY a fee to renounce your citizenship AND PAY ANY TAXES OWED to the government before "THEY" will accept/approve revoking citizenship. Which is friggen STUPID!!

If I were going to renounce my citizenship I'd simply send them a letter with this on it
":fgr: :fgr2: :fgr:" and apply for citizenship in another country. SCREW 'EM!!
Can you still leave the country under those circumstances?
As in, will they let you board the plane/ship?
 

Zahra

Veteran Member
Can you still leave the country under those circumstances?
As in, will they let you board the plane/ship?
She can leave, but there are very few countries that won't cooperate with the US and allow extradition. I believe the US also bullied the Swiss into turning over numbered account information on US citizens a few years back as well, so the Swiss may allow our gov't to go after the funds she has there too.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I have written about the overseas tax problems a lot, my guess is this woman had issues after the Swiss were billed into giving the US information on the long-standing accounts (before or after the IRS got involved).

I am expecting sometime soon, that the major industrialized countries will eventually allow US Citizens who live there, especially dual citizens to effectively renounce their US Citizenship and have it recognized anywhere but in the United States.

Things nearly turned into an international incident when the US was refusing to allow Boris Johnson to renounce the US Citizenship he didn't know he had (because under the old rules he didn't have any but they changed them) until he paid taxes to the IRS "deemed" he owed. He was practically the UK prime minister before the US gave up, facing a potential situation where the UK just might tell the US to "take a hike" (or have the Prime Minister of England unable to visit or go on diplomatic missions to the United States).

This whole "exit tax" thing has really gotten out of hand, in theory, it was to prevent billionaires from giving up their citizenship but continuing to live in the US (if they had a US spouse or other residency). But instead, it has mostly been used against regular people, many of whom didn't even know they were citizens and some of whom never even set foot in the United States (the children of citizens born overseas).

The US now "deems" them all US Citizens for tax purposes, but I expect that at some point, the rest of the world may "deem" the US to be completely out-of-line (which they are). It used to be Americans overseas worried about accidentally giving up their US Citizenship, now they are not "allowed" to give it up without an exit fee and whatever the IRS demands of them.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
She should leave the country and renounce her citizenship. Then she can live on her Swiss funds.

Don’t feed the beast. We’re now seeing how the Bolsheviks intend to proceed. Don’t forget the Amish farmer.

If you owe more than a certain amount, they put a hold on your passport.
 

Southside

Has No Life - Lives on TB
And, 1 more thing. The 2.1 million is a standard penalty. 1/2 the unreported money outside.
Clearly, the family has been aware of the filing requirements, as they have had this issue before.
She didn't pay $40,000 in back taxes, she paid $40,000 in PENALTIES. And she went down that road again.
Same road, same account, same problem.

Wait till you see all the people who "just left" the USA and never looked back. Every one of them missed filing FBAR reports. And the penalties are HUGE!

It will get ugly.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
She can leave, but there are very few countries that won't cooperate with the US and allow extradition. I believe the US also bullied the Swiss into turning over numbered account information on US citizens a few years back as well, so the Swiss may allow our gov't to go after the funds she has there too.
From what i read, it was NOT the IRS that discovered the bank account--but SHE who discovered there was a law about foreign bank accounts and VOLUNTARILY went back and paid up on the unpaid taxes due.

NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
And, 1 more thing. The 2.1 million is a standard penalty. 1/2 the unreported money outside.
Clearly, the family has been aware of the filing requirements, as they have had this issue before.
She didn't pay $40,000 in back taxes, she paid $40,000 in PENALTIES. And she went down that road again.
Same road, same account, same problem.

Wait till you see all the people who "just left" the USA and never looked back. Every one of them missed filing FBAR reports. And the penalties are HUGE!

It will get ugly.
If true, this puts a different light on things. So is the 2.1M "taxes" or a "punishment" by the IRS?
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
She should leave the country and renounce her citizenship. Then she can live on her Swiss funds.

Don’t feed the beast. We’re now seeing how the Bolsheviks intend to proceed. Don’t forget the Amish farmer.


Oddly part of the beast that forms the IRS is in Switzerland (a bank) and there are others like the Vatican and the Crown of England (Royal banks), Rothchild and more.
 

anna43

Veteran Member
If she has a valid passport, she could just leave. I hear Brazil is a pleasant country for people with money. No need to renounce her citizenship, just live as an expat.

Does she still have Argentine citizenship? Some countries including the USA allow dual citizenship. If so, she could get an Argentine passport and thumb her nose at the IRS and leave.

With access to millions, her choices are pretty much unlimited unlike the poor citizen who has his home stolen, bank account and wages garnished or gets sent to prison over unpaid taxes. Or if you're a civil rights "pastor" who owes millions, you get ignored by the IRS. You know, sort of like Clinton and Biden's son by the FBI. It's all in who you are or aren't.
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
If I was 82 and they did that to me. I might do something that would cost them said amount. Or at least try.
Like this? ;)


Prosecutors Add Up Cost of Bomb: $5,000​

by Nolan Clay


"The deadly Oklahoma City bomb was not as cheap as prosecutors once thought.
Before trial, they said the deadly explosive cost less than $1,000 to build. But that was when their theory held that the chief ingredients were fertilizer and simple diesel fuel - bought from filling stations.
But in Timothy McVeigh's trial, jurors are being told the bomb was made from fertilizer mixed with racing fuel - a more volatile and more expensive choice.

Still, the final cost was not much - less than $5,000 if the government's evidence is correct.
Most of that was spent on the ingredients, but money also went to search for the materials, to hide them and then to deliver the mixture to Oklahoma City, according to the prosecution's theory."
 
Last edited:

West

Senior
Like this?


Prosecutors Add Up Cost of Bomb: $5,000​

by Nolan Clay


"The deadly Oklahoma City bomb was not as cheap as prosecutors once thought.
Before trial, they said the deadly explosive cost less than $1,000 to build. But that was when their theory held that the chief ingredients were fertilizer and simple diesel fuel - bought from filling stations.
But in Timothy McVeigh's trial, jurors are being told the bomb was made from fertilizer mixed with racing fuel - a more volatile and more expensive choice.

Still, the final cost was not much - less than $5,000 if the government's evidence is correct.
Most of that was spent on the ingredients, but money also went to search for the materials, to hide them and then to deliver the mixture to Oklahoma

City, according to the prosecution's theory."
No.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Google query: Shawshank Redemption Mexico Destination

Zihuatanejo

However, in iconic movie The Shawshank Redemption, Zihuatanejo is the idyllic beach where Red finally meets up with Andy working on his boat in the movie's final scene. Zihautanejo, or Zihua (zee-wah) as the locals call it, is situated on the Mexican Riviera midway between Puerto Vallarta and Acapulco.

"Get busy living - or get busy dying..."

Dobbin
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If this goes to the supremes and incenses them, it could literally end all excessive fines across all agencies stating, that excessive fines only apply under RICO and big corporation multiple suit notification situations and should never be applied to any individual. And for that matter no large fine should ever be levied. I suspect the hope is to get it heard by the surpreme court and have them effectively defang this insanity basically telling the IRS and other agencies, excessive fines are to be no more.

Something short of that will occur to be sure. What happens that is going to be the interesting part of this story...
 

Telyn

Contributing Member
Some years ago I had flown back to the US from Europe. I was going through the lines after landing, and a man at customs asked if I was carrying more than $10,000. Ah, no! I'm rusty at the laws now, but if one brings more than that amount in cash, they can grab it and the agent gets a cut. I don't think most tourists carry much cash, nor do they know the laws regarding bringing in cash at re-entry.
 

JeanCat

Veteran Member
If this goes to the supremes and incenses them, it could literally end all excessive fines across all agencies stating, that excessive fines only apply under RICO and big corporation multiple suit notification situations and should never be applied to any individual. And for that matter no large fine should ever be levied. I suspect the hope is to get it heard by the surpreme court and have them effectively defang this insanity basically telling the IRS and other agencies, excessive fines are to be no more.

Something short of that will occur to be sure. What happens that is going to be the interesting part of this story...
Very perceptive post.
 

rob0126

Veteran Member
Renouncing her citizenship won't help her at that point. You do know you have to PAY a fee to renounce your citizenship AND PAY ANY TAXES OWED to the government before "THEY" will accept/approve revoking citizenship. Which is friggen STUPID!!

If I were going to renounce my citizenship I'd simply send them a letter with this on it
":fgr: :fgr2: :fgr:" and apply for citizenship in another country. SCREW 'EM!!

Land of the fee, home of the slave.
 

West

Senior
Some years ago I had flown back to the US from Europe. I was going through the lines after landing, and a man at customs asked if I was carrying more than $10,000. Ah, no! I'm rusty at the laws now, but if one brings more than that amount in cash, they can grab it and the agent gets a cut. I don't think most tourists carry much cash, nor do they know the laws regarding bringing in cash at re-entry.

In 2006 the TSA asked me that and I said NO, but I do have over $1000 FACE in gold and silver US Of America real money.

Their eyes got really big and took me and my booty to a private room. They molested my shiny, by touching and fondling it, at least they practiced safe fondling with their rubber gloves.

FACE VALUE! TAKE NOTE. the U.S Mint puts a face value on their real coins they mint.

Everything went good.
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon

IRS demands $2.1 million from 82-year-old grandmother who failed to file the correct banking form​


An 82-year-old grandmother from Boston is headed to the Supreme Court after the IRS demanded she pay $2.1 million in penalties for failing to file the proper banking form.

When antisemitism and fascism began taking hold in 1930s Germany, Monica Toth’s family fled to Argentina. There, Toth was born in 1940.

At 22, Toth immigrated to the United States, where she married and, in 1980, became a naturalized citizen.



Toth’s father became quite a successful businessman in Buenos Aires, and prior to his death in 1999, he opened for his daughter a Swiss bank account, in which he placed roughly $4.2 million in the event his little girl may one day have to flee the persecution of her government as he once had done, the New York Post reports.

U.S. law requires nationals or permanent residents to file a one-page form called a “Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts” report (FBAR) if they have a foreign bank account with a balance greater than $10,000. The FBAR must be submitted to the IRS every year.

Ignorant of the requirement until 2010, Toth was audited by the IRS. She promptly filed five years’ worth of FBAR reports and paid $40,000 in back taxes, according to the Institute for Justice, a non-profit dedicated to ending “widespread abuses of government power” and protecting the constitutional rights of Americans.

The IRS could have thanked Toth for paying the owed taxes in full as soon as she was made aware of her error, but instead, the agency deemed her reporting violation to be “reckless” and “willful,” and demanded that she fork over more than $2 million — the maximum civil penalty they could impose.

Initially attempting to battle the IRS on her own, Toth represented herself in court and raised a defense based on the Eighth Amendment’s Excessive Fines Clause.

Both the district court and the 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals shot down her argument, with the First Circuit ruling that her penalty “is not a ‘fine,'” and thus, “the Excessive Fines Clause of the Eighth Amendment does not apply to it.” The court refused to consider whether the exorbitant penalty was excessive.

“That interpretation of the Eighth Amendment is profoundly wrong,” the Institute for Justice argues. “As the IRS’s National Taxpayer Advocate warned last year, ‘The maximum FBAR penalty is among the harshest civil penalties the government may impose.’ It is precisely the sort of punishment the Excessive Fines Clause serves to check.”

The grandmother’s case, now represented by the Institute, is now headed to the Supreme Court.

“Across the country, Americans suffer from abusive fines,” said IJ Attorney Brian Morris. “The Eighth Amendment is their protection. But if the government can escape judicial scrutiny of ruinous fines by clever wording, nothing would be out of the government’s reach.”

The case comes as the IRS has received an $80 billion boost and a bunch of weapons from the Biden administration’s Inflation Reduction Act.

“Fines, fees and forfeitures, if unrestrained, threaten Americans’ cherished liberties,” said IJ President and General Counsel Scott Bullock. “The courts must respect the Constitution and control the government’s impulse to prioritize revenue over people’s lives.”

There'll be more of this

Those 80K new hires weren't brought on to process returns.

JB needs every penny or asset he can convert to pay for "FREE ______ "

Wonder if he's instituted 'merit pay' for finding fat targets?
 
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