HEALTH Insane rise in cost of insulin has doctors and diabetics scrambling...

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I see this on the eve of my appointment tomorrow to see if I need to transition to using this; after years the other medications and diets are not quite doing their job. NOW I know why my father in law told my husband that in the US, they "can't afford" to do the superior one-shot treatment ever 24 hours for those patients that it is appropriate for.

This story is actually so horrifying I am having trouble getting my head around it - I knew about the epi pens; but pricing a 100 year old drug that the creators GAVE the patent away to for the greater good of people who needed to survive; for this to be allowed to happen - but just in the US; the one place where there is NO REAL public system that everyone can access if they need to.

This in my mind has just changed from irresponsible to corporate murder - there is NO GENERIC that people can buy; there is no choice other than obtain the insulin some how or DIE - especially for Type 1 diabetics who can't NOT be cured with diet and exercise and many type II folks who are older and whose bodies just don't work well anymore.

This is what I mean by sometimes to have a capitalist society that works - you still need some regulation especially for monopolies.

Two companies creating most of the insulin world wide with no generic options for a drug many people need and will simply die (extremely painful) and/or cost the tax payer billions in amputations, organ transplants, coma treatment, etc (most of which is totally preventable by proper use of insulin).

I'm shocked, stunned and had no idea 45 dollars a month to nearly 1500 dollars a month is not tolerable; this isn't a designer drug, this is life or death.



Insulin price spike leaves diabetes patients in crisis

Andrew Schneider Special to Lee Newspapers Updated 16 hrs ago 3

A massive spike in insulin prices is causing a health crisis for millions of diabetes patients who depend on the lifesaving drug, doctors say.

Now, after years of rapid increases having nothing to do with available supply and not matched elsewhere in the world, those in the U.S. insulin supply chain are blaming each other.

Tens of thousands of medical professionals are engaged in an intricate therapeutic ballet performed to protect the health, limbs, and lives of the almost 30 million people in the U.S. suffering from diabetes.

But their efforts have been dramatically complicated by the soaring increase in the cost of insulin. They find themselves balancing the cost of the essential medication and their patients' ability to pay.

"The manipulation of insulin cost is a medical crisis in Montana and everywhere else in this country," said Dr. Justen Rudolph, a diabetes specialist at St. Vincent Healthcare in Billings.
"My patients having trouble with their insulin availability range from teenagers to a 90-year-old man, and there's not a day that goes by when I'm not talking to a patient about the cost of their insulin.

"They try to spread out the insulin they have to make do, and that's not how you can control diabetes," said Rudolph.

This hit-or-miss medicating concerns many practitioners.

"Precision is needed to ensure the patient is getting the best type of insulin for their specific condition, in the right doses, at the right time, to achieve the greatest benefit," said Dr. Irl Hirsch, professor of medicine in the Division of Metabolism, Endocrinology and Nutrition at the University of Washington in Seattle.

State statistics and those of the American Diabetes Association show that 65,000 to 70,000 people have been diagnosed with diabetes in Montana, and another approximately 26,000 are believed to have the disease but have not been officially diagnosed.

In Missoula, Certified Diabetes Educator Carla Cox of the Providence Medical Group cautioned that switching to other forms of insulin "can present a greater risk because it is less like the action of insulin produced by the pancreas."
PRICES SOARING

From 2011 to 2013 the wholesale price of insulin went up by as much as 62 percent. From 2013 to 2015 the price jumped again, from a low of 33 percent to as much as 107 percent, said Dr. Mayer Davidson, professor of medicine at the Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science in Los Angeles, who has carefully tracked the rapid and repeated increases.

"This borders on the unbelievable," Davidson said, citing an extremely concentrated insulin which "in 2001 had the wholesale price of $45. By last year, the cost had skyrocketed to $1,447" for the same monthly supply.

Susan Pierce, a diabetes educator at Philadelphia's Chestnut Hill Hospital, said she's seeing similar increases, with her patients reporting that the cost of their insulin is doubling, tripling or worse.

"People who paid $200 or less are now getting bills of $400, $500 and even more for the same amount of insulin. Meanwhile, most insurance is paying less for medications, and the required co-pays are higher, so it is a double whammy that prevents the patient from getting the insulin to stay alive," said Pierce.

The medical community is concerned about patients who can't afford their insulin, "so what they have to do is they ration it," said Davidson, who has been heralded for his creation of programs to get quality diabetes treatment to underserved communities.

"They take it only three or four times a week instead of every day in order to make it stretch, and that's dangerous," he said.

Diabetes specialists attack their patients' increases or decreases of blood sugars with the finesse of a commander plotting how to use limited troops and supplies in a continuing battle.

Patients and their practitioners live in a world where they must select and prescribe insulin which either institutes immediate changes in glucose or blood-sugar levels or is long-lasting and doles out the vital medication over hours.

"We are not talking about concierge medicine or just fine-tuning insulin therapy or something that a patent can live without. We're talking about survival. Don't let anyone sugarcoat it," warns Hirsch.
NEGATIVE IMPACTS


The effects of diabetes are enormous. The disease is a leading cause of blindness, strokes, kidney failure, heart attacks, nerve pain, and amputation of the feet and legs.

Hirsch and many of his colleagues are not subtle when they describe what "price gouging of a medication required for survival" is doing to their patients.

"I had a patient tell me her insulin bill is suddenly costing her as much as her mortgage," Hirsch said.

Others tell similar stories.

Dr. Claresa Levetan, chief of endocrinology at Chestnut Hill Hospital, said "just about 100 percent of them are having problems affording the higher cost of insulin."

"I see people every day in the hospital because they can't get their required doses of insulin. Many are in the ICU with what is called diabetic ketoacidosis, a life-threatening condition. This lack of insulin brings the patients to a critical juncture, where they will become extraordinarily sick, go into a coma, and could ultimately die. [not to mention the tax payer ends up covering this when the insurance or other money runs out-Melodi]

"I have patients who tell me that they have to make a decision between food and insulin and their rent and insulin.

"I mean, seriously, food, rent or insulin," she said.
WHERE PRICES ARE HIKED


Pricing of insulin, as with other medications, is controlled by the manufacturers, the insurance companies, and pharmacy benefit managers — the middlemen who negotiate the prices that the insurance companies pay.

"Both the pharma company and the pharmacy benefit managers jack up the cost," said Hirsch, a former editor in chief of the journal Clinical Diabetes, published by the American Diabetes Association.

"We don't know what the benefit manager is paying for the insulin from the pharma company. It's backroom deals," Hirsch said. "You can call them rebates, you can call them kickbacks, you can call them bribes, but those are secret deals on which we don't have the details."

Pharmacy trade associations are pushing congressional committees and state regulators to investigate the pricing practices of these powerful benefit administrators. Of significant concern is a "clawback fee" that the benefit controllers demand the pharmacies impose on patients on top of their copays.

Most professionals on the front lines blame the snowballing costs on the almost complete lack of regulation of pharmacy benefit managers.

"But the companies say, 'No, no, no. It's not us,'" said educator Pierce.

"You may not be able to prove who's behind the price rigging, but remember these prices are not an issue in Canada or in Europe or other countries where the governments keep the drug makers from going wild. It's only in America."

Nevertheless, some diabetes experts say the pharmacy industry should not be tarred with the same critical brush.

"Think of all the good things they actually do," said Cox in Missoula, and ticked off programs for many low-income, uninsured people as well as the industry's support of children at diabetes camps and professional conferences.
DRUG MAKERS BLAMED

Three major pharmacy benefit companies were asked to comment on the insulin price increase. Only one, Express Scripts, the largest benefit manager in the U.S., replied.

The cost of insulin is high for patients because "drug makers continue to increase prices significantly each year, and there is no generic insulin available on the market,"
said Jennifer Leone Luddy, Express Scripts spokesperson, who added that her company's mission is "to keep prescription medication affordable and accessible."

She described a major effort "to ensure patients get the right medication, are using, and achieve the best results from their medication."

The company seeks the most cost-effective medications, she said, but added that Express Scripts does not establish the price a patient pays for any medication; its clients — employers, health plans, and government agencies — decide how much will be paid by a patient.

In Gainesville, Texas, Jerry Meece, a clinical pharmacist and certified diabetes educator, said he spends far too much time trying to figure out what patients can afford versus what meds are most appropriate for them.

"These patients are desperate. They do without their insulin, skip doses, lower their prescribed dose to stretch out the insulin they have, and end up in the emergency room or ICU with long-term complications such as kidney failure, leg amputations, or vision problems," Meece said.

Even some patients who can afford the higher prices are endangered because the benefit managers are playing musical chairs with the different brands of insulin they authorize, some doctors said.

"I'm being told to make patients switch their insulin for no good reason except to make somebody more money," said Dr. Loren Wissner Greene of New York University's Langone Medical Center.

Greene, an NYU clinical professor of medicine, worries that her patients are confused by the flip-flopping.

"I just barely taught them that the orange pen is the fast-acting insulin and is to be taken with meals and the gray one is the slow-acting insulin to take at night. Now, suddenly, I have to switch them to a different brand to keep the pharmacy game-players happy," she said.

"Big business wins again, and the patients lose."

Three pharmaceutical companies control almost all the world's supply of insulin.

In addition to Eli Lilly, headquartered in Indianapolis, there is the Danish company Novo Nordisk, which says it makes half the insulin used by diabetics around the world, and the French company Sanofi, which says it has 18 percent of the market.

All three companies were asked why people buying their insulin were suddenly paying significantly more. Novo Nordisk and Sanofi did not respond to the question.

Lilly said it could not speculate on why individual costs went up.

"Lilly does not set the final price a patient pays for our medicines. Wholesalers and pharmacies ultimately price the product at retail," said communication manager Julie Herrick Williams.

"The patient's insurer, the type of plan, and the individual pharmacy all play a role in the price," she said. "Changes to the U.S. healthcare system are the primary driver for increased insulin cost for consumers. With the adoption of cost-sharing plans, like high-deductible health plans, more direct costs are shifting to the people who need treatments."

Insulin production earns pharmaceutical companies tens of billions of dollars. The three pharmaceutical giants made an estimated $12 billion to $14 billion in profits from the sale of insulin last year, according to preliminary figures gathered by industry watchdogs.

Insulin first hit the market in 1920 when three Canadian scientists donated the patent for their life-saving discovery to the University of Toronto for either one Canadian dollar, or free — accounts differ.

Almost immediately, the university gave pharmaceutical companies, including Eli Lilly, license to produce insulin without payment to the school or the scientists, who won the Nobel Prize for Medicine for its creation. The magical concoction — extracted from the pancreases of pigs and cows — was distributed almost worldwide within months. Since there was no pharmaceutical treatment at the time, only rigid and unhealthy diets, countless lives were saved.

Eli Lilly's corporate history reports that it took more than 4,000 pounds of animal pancreases to produce a cup — 8 ounces — of insulin. Each year the company used organs from 60 million animals to produce enough insulin for U.S. diabetics.

Lilly looked for a better way to produce the vital medication, and in 1978, in a landmark in genetic engineering, Genentech came up with the answer. Genentech's scientists cloned a synthetic insulin from a human insulin gene and a benign strain of the food-poisoning bacteria E. coli. It was the first laboratory synthesizing of DNA that resulted in a much-needed medication, and animal-based insulin was on its way out.

Physicians are insisting that a less-expensive alternative has to be found and questioning why a medicine nearing its 100th birthday is still so expensive.

Hirsch and his colleagues are lobbying hard to end the price gouging.

"The government is going to have to get involved, and it's going to get ugly," said Hirsch, who has lived with the disease since his youth. He was diagnosed with diabetes when he was 6, and his younger brother was told he had the disease when he was 15.

"The well being of our diabetes patients must come before the profit-driven games being played over the price of the clear liquid that keeps them alive," he said.

Andrew Schneider, an award-winning public health journalist, is based in Missoula.


Ida Reighard of Butte, a registered nurse, has worked 17 years with diabetes patients and in diabetes education. The past eight years have bee…
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Diabetes Insulin St. Vincent Healthcare University Of Washington Endocrinology American Diabetes Association Providence Medical Group Charles R. Drew University Of Medicine And Science Chestnut Hill Hospital Price Gouging Eli Lilly Express Scripts Langone Medical Center Novo Nordisk Sanofi Butte News Butte Montana Patient Price Drug Irl Hirsch Manager Company

(3) comments
Wally Lindquist Aug 21, 2016 8:12pm

People dying and going broke, what is our GOP controlled congress doing about this crisis? They do not care they have great healthcare.

C Creek Aug 21, 2016 6:17pm

Well, This is one way of over-population Control...are you sure that Mike Garrity , of Wild Rockies Fame and the Anti-Human Enviros aren't behind all this????
JackO
john obrien Aug 21, 2016 6:26am

"This borders on the unbelievable," (Professor) Davidson said, citing an extremely concentrated insulin which "in 2001 had the wholesale price of $45. By last year, the cost had skyrocketed to $1,447" for the same monthly supply."

"...increases having nothing to do with available supply and not matched elsewhere in the world".

""We don't know what the benefit manager is paying for the insulin from the pharma company. It's backroom deals," Hirsch said. "You can call them rebates, you can call them kickbacks, you can call them bribes, but those are secret deals on which we don't have the details."

These are called Non-Disclosure Agreements. It's how the so-called Free Market is really and truly a manipulated marketplace. Not free. No information is available for free market competitive practices because Congressmen such as Steve Daines and Ryan Zinke pass laws which allow Corporations to put blindfolds on everyone. That's no exageration... that's a fact. These same people talk about "Free Markets"... but that is just the opposite of what they intend.

How do they explain themselves?... that the United States of America has the most expensive health care in the world because of these fascist (no exageration there either)... fascist corporate governance policies.... They blame Obamacare.

This is the perfect marriage of capitalism and corporate run government. Benito Mussolini had NOTHING on these guys. ..
. what they really are is unspeakable. Steve Daines even more than Ryan Zinke is their boy... but Congressman Zinke als plays into their hands (perhaps more unwittingly).


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Hfcomms

EN66iq
"Lilly does not set the final price a patient pays for our medicines. Wholesalers and pharmacies ultimately price the product at retail," said communication manager Julie Herrick Williams.
"Think of all the good things they actually do," said Cox in Missoula, and ticked off programs for many low-income, uninsured people as well as the industry's support of children at diabetes camps and professional conferences.



Price gouging to make big pharma and all the intermediaries extraordinarily wealthy people be damned and cost shifting in order to cover the low-income/no income and uninsured. And of course the more nefarious aspect is the intentional shedding of the 'useless' eaters on society. It's going to be a big die off that is planned. They'll get it through war, plague or simple neglect one way or another.
 

Adino

paradigm shaper
Forcing those with expensive pre-existing conditions into the ranks of the health care roles is responsible.

I am not going to defend big pharma few hate them as much as I do.

But to cut losses on drug lines that they have to run that are not profitable they have to find profits elsewhere - because maximizing shareholder wealth is big pharma's only real goal.

They are going to lines of drugs that are inelastic in their demand to make up losses.

Its not right no matter what side you look at it from. But business is business when profit is the only motive.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
I was wondering why I've been seeing all these TV ads for new types of diabetes control lately.

Hmmm..........
 

jazzy

Advocate Discernment
if the cost increase is only in the US, can you get the insulin from overseas pharmacies like alldaychemist?
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
1. O/Care has made a shambles of our health system. That was deliberate because the goals always was;

2 Single Payer. That is the only way they can get a handle on the incomes of the doctors and the drug companies.

3. If you were a drug company, you's max profits now because once Single Payer comes in

4. The Gov will tell you what the drug price is.

Odd how it all works out.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Check the price of epi-pens
they are 4 or 600$ per pair now in Texas.


That is why I keep a vial of veterinary grade epi on hand and syringes. It is an absolute disgrace. There is maybe a dimes worth of epi in each auto injector. The company could sell those injectors at $15 for a 300% return on cost and in turn the pharmacies could sell them at $30 for a 100% return on cost. Denninger has talked about it many times but if you wanted to label one thing and one thing only that is bankrupting us is the out of control medical industry. The cost to medicare and medicade alone is enough to torpedo the budget. The thing is you need no new laws on the books, just enforce the current ones against the medical monopolies and start putting executives in prison. You would see the spiraling costs come back down mui quick!!
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
It's called PRICE GOUGING call it what it is, and this should not be allowed. I'm not against a fair....A FAIR...profit, but this kind of stuff is just plain wrong. Epi pens for $600 BUCKS is pure B.S., and the only way to stop this to allow consumers to buy their medications from where ever in the world they want. Yes that could be dangerous if you get some fly by night company. But there are good companies with good reputations that would love the American business.

That's what a FREE MARKET is. Consumers have a choice to go anywhere and buy what they need and want at the price they want. If they were allowed to do that all this kind of crap would stop. That would be the only way I see to stop this kind of thing. If it's cheaper in Canada....buy your meds from Canada. That's the only way to force and end to this practice.
 

RCSAR

Veteran Member
I know this is off the insulin topic but stays with the pharma thieves.
I also keep 20ml bottles of epi here in the fridge. They passed a law on injectables from the feed store but my Dr gives me what I ask for. Dirt cheap in the bottles.



Cost Of Life-Saving Allergy Drug Skyrocketing

With the price of EpiPens up 400 percent, some parents are weighing a dangerous option.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqR-lWDDziY
 

wirefox

Contributing Member
We have a cat who takes Lantus, ( because it works) thankfully he only weighs 14 lbs and does not use a bottle every two weeks. Still, just about every time I pick up a vial the drug tech asks " are you aware how much this costs?" The costs have more than doubled in the 4 years he has been taking it. I truly don't know how people do it.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Nightwolf was shocked enough that he is going to do more research about this (I knew about the epi pens but hadn't told him that yet either); this may actually be the straw that affects if we stay here (with a much longer training period on much less money) or return to the US as we had been planning - we hadn't decided for sure either way but this is very-very serious.

It isn't that a drug company(s) would try to do this, it is the fact that it somehow seems to be "OK" and isn't even screaming front page news; in reality, even from a purely cold and calculating money point of view this is insane because unless the drug companies (etal) can be held financially responsible for every diabetic who can't afford insulin (type 1 or type 2) for ALL the hospital bills related to the horrific side effects (including prolonged and painful death after taking up space in the ICU for a time) then this is another case of CORPORATE WELFARE.

As for preexisting conditions; the Federal Employee system was always that way (at least for the last few decades) and insurers scramble to bid to provide cover; the military for direct family members at least was the same a couple of years ago (we had friends who had to stay in because a child had a chronic illness that would result in death if untreated).

Also OTHER countries manage by buying medications in bulk (which "Obama Care" written by the industry for the most part actually FORBIDS the US to do) and by simply telling companies "we have this much budget for medications this year, take it or leave it."

Yes this can result sometimes in medications not being covered; my husband is on several that we pay for an if we were indigent he might not have access too but on the other hand anything related to my diabetic condition is free at point of access (obvious tax payers cover it) because the government realized a few decades ago that THREATING existing conditions that were treatable was a heck of a lot cheaper in a public/private system than waiting until people (like the folks in the US) are in the ER and have severe health complications.

It not only saves money on medical bills for the taxpayers, it also saves the taxpayers from paying widow/widowers benefits and the money needed to raise the orphaned or semi-orphaned children that may result and/or the elderly person who will go into State care because their middle aged care giver just expired of a perfectly treatable but chronic condition.

Of course Public systems are not perfect - though Ireland is now moving closer towards a single-payer system because to many people are falling through the cracks (largely because of the price of health insurance) but there is a public system even here.

But as Nightwolf pointed out "a totally homeless and indigent person in Ireland is going to get insulin; they simply are."

And yep, we already talked about "thyroid" being next (I take that too)...it is the next most obvious one to make insanely expensive...

Notice how they are NOT doing that (yet anyway) with some of their other serious money spinners like Staten drugs and I can guess why...

If you don't take insulin and you really need it - you die; ditto for some people on thyroid medications and those who need epi pens (if the school hadn't had one, my nephew would be dead now)...

The "lifestyle" drugs they want "everyone over 65 on" that may help with some things but where death is not likely to result in moments, days or even a few weeks; won't stand up to this level of price gouging because people will simply decide to ditch them thinking "yeah sure, I might live a few more years in the future but I need to pay the rent/light/food/car insurance right now."

So they are careful to keep those semi-affordable for those working....

Also as I tried to explain to German housemate-in the US the taxpayer is massively funding a lot of this massive over-pricing because most of the very poorest people do have some sort of Federal/State program that covers their bills (either directly or indirectly when they go into the hospital).

So it is really the working poor and lower-middle to middle-middle classes (with 10,000 dollar deductible "insurance") and the like that have to pay out 10,000 dollars at 1500 a month before the assistance even kicks in.

Those are the Mothers who may not even tell their husbands that they are only taking their insulin twice a day instead of four times a day in order to put food on the table; and they just hope for the best and that they don't collapse - if they are type 1, eventually they probably will.
 

Redcat

Veteran Member
My senior (15++) cat is diabetic. He is/was on Lantus which now is $400 a vial, for a year and a half. Thankfully he has never needed over 5 units in a day (2.5 x 2 injections 12 hours apart). The vial holds 1000 units. Still it is $800 a year. I recently switched his food to an organic one with no corn. He lost weight (2 pounds he needed to lose) and his sugar has normalized. I haven't had to give him a shot in a month (we gradually decreased it with the vets approval down to one unit once a day). Now he is Lantus free. I am hoping this continues. I do check his sugar at home.

I am also Type II diabetic. I have been losing a little weight and eating way less carbs and I see the effect in my own sugar numbers.
 

nomifyle

TB Fanatic
My senior (15++) cat is diabetic. He is/was on Lantus which now is $400 a vial, for a year and a half. Thankfully he has never needed over 5 units in a day (2.5 x 2 injections 12 hours apart). The vial holds 1000 units. Still it is $800 a year. I recently switched his food to an organic one with no corn. He lost weight (2 pounds he needed to lose) and his sugar has normalized. I haven't had to give him a shot in a month (we gradually decreased it with the vets approval down to one unit once a day). Now he is Lantus free. I am hoping this continues. I do check his sugar at home.

I am also Type II diabetic. I have been losing a little weight and eating way less carbs and I see the effect in my own sugar numbers.

a very low carb diet, with high good fat will help to lose weight and reduce your need for diabetic medications. Overweight and high carb diets are a killer.

Judy
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
My senior (15++) cat is diabetic. He is/was on Lantus which now is $400 a vial, for a year and a half. Thankfully he has never needed over 5 units in a day (2.5 x 2 injections 12 hours apart). The vial holds 1000 units. Still it is $800 a year. I recently switched his food to an organic one with no corn. He lost weight (2 pounds he needed to lose) and his sugar has normalized. I haven't had to give him a shot in a month (we gradually decreased it with the vets approval down to one unit once a day). Now he is Lantus free. I am hoping this continues. I do check his sugar at home.

I am also Type II diabetic. I have been losing a little weight and eating way less carbs and I see the effect in my own sugar numbers.
Redcat, as Nightwolf said; most type II can be treated at least in the initial stages by diet, exercise and some really break-through medications they have now; but it also tends to be a disease that gets worse with age and time (for most people).

Being well managed and properly treated can delay that time for ages (and that includes diet and other adjustments) but just as people use to get this disease in their 70's and 80's (not their teens and twenties) many people simply DO come down with it in old age and/or it gets much worse in advanced old age.

One of the best and easier ways of treating it is with insulin either the European (but more expensive) one a day shot or the multi-shot version used in the US (and in Europe for those who need it); there are also of course insulin pumps for both type 1 and type II if/when things get to where they simply quit working at all.

Also, cats are not people (we have the big Vet text book The Book of the Cat from Nightwolf's medical school/vet school) - cats do NOT NEED corn or any carbs what-so-ever; they can eat a bit probably without damage but modern dry cat foods stick in all sorts of stuff dogs can digest but cats really can't.

So of course when a nearly total carnivore whose system is designed to run on meat is given tons of starches and vegetables (even dried) they are likely to become ill; especially if they have a genetic tendency to do so.

Cat's in the wild get what little non-meat they need from the stomach contents of their kills and occasionally eating grass (in very small amounts) that is; that and water are what they need.

That said, costs get involved and yep we feed our cats some dry cat food too; but we try to top it up with as much meat as we can.
 

pinkelsteinsmom

Veteran Member
It's called PRICE GOUGING call it what it is, and this should not be allowed. I'm not against a fair....A FAIR...profit, but this kind of stuff is just plain wrong. Epi pens for $600 BUCKS is pure B.S., and the only way to stop this to allow consumers to buy their medications from where ever in the world they want. Yes that could be dangerous if you get some fly by night company. But there are good companies with good reputations that would love the American business.

That's what a FREE MARKET is. Consumers have a choice to go anywhere and buy what they need and want at the price they want. If they were allowed to do that all this kind of crap would stop. That would be the only way I see to stop this kind of thing. If it's cheaper in Canada....buy your meds from Canada. That's the only way to force and end to this practice.


The outrageous price of drugs also means seniors will hit the doughnut hole real quick.
 

kittyknits

Veteran Member
We have a cat who takes Lantus, ( because it works) thankfully he only weighs 14 lbs and does not use a bottle every two weeks. Still, just about every time I pick up a vial the drug tech asks " are you aware how much this costs?" The costs have more than doubled in the 4 years he has been taking it. I truly don't know how people do it.

Our cat has been on Lantus for 2 months now--2 units a day. The tiny bottle cost $278. I'm so afraid I'm going to drop it.
 

RCSAR

Veteran Member
Where is this powdered insulin they came up with that was suppose to be super cheap to make?

I know stupid question.

I am old enough to remember when they wanted to get public support on a nuke reactor in Texas. They told everyone "the electricity will be so cheap we may even end up removing the meters off everyones house". Heh Yeah Right! That never happened.
 

Cyclonemom

Veteran Member
Pharmacies aren't the only place where there is price gouging. A $2-$3 bag of IV fluids costs $600-$800 in the hospital. And on the bill I saw that had this (my dad) that was NOT including the pump, or IV lines, etc involved with administering the fluids. It was just for the bag of fluids itself.
 

Cyclonemom

Veteran Member
Our cat has been on Lantus for 2 months now--2 units a day. The tiny bottle cost $278. I'm so afraid I'm going to drop it.

We have been requested by several clients with kitties on insulin to call Mark's Marine pharmacy out of Canada with script info. They apparently have decent prices. YMMV.
 

RCSAR

Veteran Member
A $2-$3 bag of IV fluids costs $600-$800 in the hospital. And on the bill I saw that had this (my dad) that was NOT including the pump, or IV lines, etc involved with administering the fluids. It was just for the bag of fluids itself.

I have been working too hard for too long in the wrong profession.
No one told me I could sell small bags of salt water for $600!
My school guidance office screwed me.
 
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almost ready

Inactive
Just as a few people/companies always benefit first from new money injected into the economy, and when it is excess, they enjoy price increases (such as the housing bubbles), there is a point when hyperinflation comes....

it doesn't hit everyone at once, nor all commodities, but appears as flashes, here, there, then as the people and companies who are hit with the price increases pass them on, it becomes a rush like a dam breaking.

We are seeing this in employment, more from regulatory costs than actual take-home-wages, but also now health insurance, drugs, hospital stays, etc.

Everyone is one broken ankle away from bankruptcy - and it gets worse all the time.

DH needs an epipen and I just today learned about the cost. We are examining traditional alternatives in old medical literature.

Enough to make Mother Teresa swear.
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
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By Summer Banks on Jul 07, 2016
ChromeMate Review

We’ve been hearing a lot of buzz about ChromeMate, so we decided to take a close look at the ingredients, side effects, clinical research and customer service. We had no trouble finding hundreds of experiences to read. Then, we condensed it all to give you the bottom line.
EDITOR'S TIP: Click here to substitute ChromeMate with a proven fat burner such as Leptigen for better results.
What You Need to Know

First off, ChromeMate is an ingredient also known as chromium polynicotinate. It is supposed to help you maintain healthy cholesterol, blood glucose and weight. It can be purchased as a standalone product or as part of a larger formula.

InterHealth Nutraceuticals is the company that makes ChromeMate, which was released on the market in 1987. The official website doesn’t sell it, but you can buy the ingredient from various retailers or as part of a supplement. We like that clinical evidence is there, but read on…
Hunger Control – “A Good Thing”

The first thing we noticed about the ChromeMate ingredient is that it may help control hunger. “There are tons of product reviews that show dieters are in love with the fact that they feel like they can stop those cravings,” says our Research Editor.

As one put it, “Bariatric doc told me to take two of these everyday to help control sugar cravings.”

Another said, “I do notice less of a craving for carbs – when I take one of these daily.”

Scroll below for one of the best products we’ve seen over the last year.
Energy Boost – “Another Positive”

There are several things we know ChromeMate does right and one appears to be an increase in your get up and go. “I love the boost of energy,” one dieter explains.

“Great product for smoothing out energy between meals while helping to boost metabolism,” said a user.

Over the years we’ve found a connection between something small and a reduced chance of long-term results. With ChromeMate, there’s nothing to worry about.
The Science – “Any Real Proof?”

ChromeMate is among the minority in that there is clinical support for product claims. According to the official website, five studies have been completed. We searched around and actually did find one that showed it can help support cholesterol and glucose levels and healthy weight. At DietSpotlight, we love it when a supplement actually has science behind it.
The Bottom Line – Does ChromeMate Work?

Are we in the car right now racing or for some ChromeMate? Well, we like that there is clinical evidence that shows it can help you maintain a healthy weight, but we need more than that. We think it is best to combine an ingredient like this with other ones that are also proven to maximize your chances of weight-loss.

If you’re at the point where you have to lose weight right now, we suggest choosing a product made with clinically studied and proven ingredients, like ChromeMate.

Among the best products we’ve seen in 2016 is one called Leptigen. One of the four ingredients in the proprietary blend is ChromeMate. The other three are also clinically proven. There are no side effects, based on customer reviews. But, there are some reports of amazing results.

Plus, it’s a nice touch that the makers of Leptigen are confident enough in the formula to give customers a 15-Day Sample.

http://www.dietspotlight.com/chromemate-review/
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Chromium prevents diabetes by improving insulin sensitivity

Thursday, November 05, 2009
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger





(NaturalNews) Of all the trace minerals, chromium may be the most beneficial to diabetes patients. It's an insulin potentiator, so it makes the body's own insulin production go further.

If you have diabetes or blood sugar disorders, you need to know about chromium. We've assembled a large collection of quotes for you right here, but at the same time, we encourage you to check with your naturopathic physician before beginning chromium supplementation so that you can get a full review of your diet, supplements and blood sugar situation.

Here's the collection of quotes from many of the top health authors writing today...

Chromium vs. diabetes
Both celiac disease and diabetes are major contributors to the epidemic of magnesium deficiency and chromium deficiency. Up to 90 percent of Americans and Canadians consume less than the minimal 50 micrograms of chromium a day. It follows that celiacs eating a normal diet would be profoundly chromium deficient. Chromium deficiency is associated with 1. hyperglycemia 2. hyperinsulinism/insulin-resistance 3. insulin-dependent diabetes (IDDM, Type 1) 4. adult-onset diabetes (NIDDM, Type 2) 5. gestational diabetes (diabetes of pregnancy) 6. corticosteroid-induced diabetes
- Dangerous Grains: Why Gluten Cereal Grains May Be Hazardous To Your Health by James Braly M.D. and Ron Hoggan M.A.

Industrial chromium, a completely different form than that found in foods, is toxic. People with diabetes who take chromium should be under medical supervision, since their insulin dosage may need to be reduced as blood sugar drops. Many studies detailing chromium's benefits have used chromium picolinate, an easily absorbed form. Chromium nicotinate and amino acid forms of chromium are less easily absorbed than chromium picolinate but can supply adequate amounts of the mineral. The least absorbable form is chromium chloride, which is found in some multivitamin/mineral supplements.
- Prevention's Healing With Vitamins : The Most Effective Vitamin and Mineral Treatments for Everyday Health Problems and Serious Disease by The Editors of Prevention Magazine Health Books

When sufficient levels of chromium are present much lower amounts of insulin are required. Diabetes has been shown to develop as a consequence of chromium deficiency in experimental animals and in humans sustained by prolonged total parenteral nutrition. Chromium deficiency is relatively common in patients with Type II diabetes and may impair the function of GTF, causing the uptake of glucose into cells to become less efficient. Impaired chromium metabolism may also play a role in diabetes of pregnancy. High insulin levels also seem to increase chromium excretion.
- The New Encyclopedia of Vitamins, Minerals, Supplements and Herbs by Nicola Reavley

The results of several studies suggest that chromium may play a role in controlling diabetes and heart disease. For example: Diabetes. In one study, 180 people with type 2 diabetes were randomly assigned to receive 100 mcg elemental chromium, 500 mcg elemental chromium, or a placebo. Four months later, those taking either dose of chromium scored significantly lower on their fasting and two-hour insulin level tests, indicating improvement in their disease. Those taking the higher amount of chromium were also found to have lower total cholesterol levels.
- The Side Effects Bible: The Dietary Solution to Unwanted Side Effects of Common Medications by Frederic Vagnini, M.D. and Barry Fox, Ph.D.

Very small amounts of organic Chromium are found in the blood. That small amount is extremely important in aiding insulin in glucose metabolism. Chromium is the active factor in the substance GTF-glucose tolerance factor. It makes insulin more effective. In fact without Chromium insulin can't do its job. It can help prevent diabetes or hypoglycemia or help those with diabetes and hypoglycemia get by with less insulin. As one gets older less Chromium is retained in the body. Also, a fetus may rob the Chromium stores of pregnant women.
- The How to Herb Book: Let's Remedy the Situation by Velma J. Keith and Monteen Gordon

A deficiency of CoQ10 has been linked to diabetes. Chromium - a trace mineral depleted by diabetic medication, excess iron, processed foods, refined carbohydrates, and sugar. Chromium is necessary for maintaining stable blood sugar levels through proper insulin utilization. Chromium assists in the treatment of diabetes and hypoglycemia. A deficiency can produce glucose intolerance (especially in diabetics). Deficiency symptoms parallel those of diabetes. Diabetes and coronary heart disease have been linked to low chromium concentrations in human tissue.
- A Drug-Free Approach To Healthcare, Revised Edition by Dr. David W. Tanton; Ph.D.

Symptoms of chromium deficiency - increased glucose, insulin, total cholesterol, and triglycerides - resemble those of prediabetes. This certainly doesn't mean that chromium alone will reverse prediabetes; however, many studies have shown that either chromium polynicotinate or chromium picolinate supplements do in fact improve insulin function and can lead to improved glucose tolerance. Based on the research, the most effective dose of chromium appears to be 1,000 mcg, or 500 mcg twice daily with meals.
- Stop Prediabetes Now: The Ultimate Plan to Lose Weight and Prevent Diabetes by Jack Challem

While the improvements are not dramatic, it makes sense to include chromium for improved heart health. Anyone with diabetes or hypoglycemia should definitely be supplementing with chromium. The fact that chromium makes the cells more sensitive to insulin has been borne out by studies done with people who had Type 2 diabetes. Often, those who have Type 2 diabetes have a chromium deficiency, which appears to make them more susceptible to the condition.
- The Natural Physician's Healing Therapies by Mark Stengler, N.D.

Glycation is responsible for many of the complications of diabetes, a process that chromium inhibits. To assess the effects of chromium on glycosylated hemoglobin levels, 180 Type II diabetes patients were divided into three groups and supplemented daily with 200 mcg of chromium, 1000 mcg of chromium, or a placebo (Baker 1996). After 4 months, there was improvement in both chromium-treated groups. Glycosylated hemoglobin (a measurement of average blood glucose) over a 2- to 3-month period was (on an average) 6.6% in the high dose group, 7.5% in the low-dose group, and 8.
- Disease Prevention and Treatment by The Life Extension Editorial Staff

It occurs naturally in three different forms with one particular form (chromium III) making up the majority of dietary chromium. The average adult body contains between 0.4 and 6 mg of chromium and older people usually have lower levels. There is a wide geographical variation in chromium levels and population studies suggest that the incidence of diabetes and heart disease is lower in areas where chromium intakes are relatively high. Chromium is essential for normal sugar metabolism.
- The New Encyclopedia of Vitamins, Minerals, Supplements and Herbs by Nicola Reavley

Because chromium appears to enhance the action of insulin and chromium deficiency results in impaired glucose tolerance, chromium insufficiency has been hypothesized to be a contributing factor to the development of Type-2 diabetes. Individuals with Type-2 diabetes have been found to have higher rates of urinary chromium loss than healthy individuals, especially those with diabetes of more than two years duration.
- There Is a Cure for Diabetes: The Tree of Life 21-Day+ Program by Gabriel Cousens

In double blind studies, just the addition of chromium supplementation, with no other dietary changes, altered the body fat composition to increase non fat body mass. One factor affecting chromium stores in the body is the amount of sugar that an individual consumes. Once chromium has acted as a cofactor in insulin response, it is excreted in the urine. With the high sugar diet of today, the turnover rate of chromium is quite high. Patients with the highest risk for developing frank diabetes need chromium the most. The highest tissue stores of chromium occur in newborns.
- The Miracle Enzyme Is Serrapeptase by Robert Redfern

Women with gestational diabetes whose diets were supplemented with 4 mcg of chromium per kilogram of body weight daily as chromium picolinate for eight weeks had decreased fasting blood glucose and insulin levels, compared with those who took a placebo. Dosage: Niacin-bound chromium is more bioavailable than chromium picolinate. A recent study at the University of California found that chromium polynicotinate was absorbed and retained up to 311 percent better than chromium picolinate and 672 percent better than chromium chloride.
- There Is a Cure for Diabetes: The Tree of Life 21-Day+ Program by Gabriel Cousens

For example, in diabetes, because of all the refined foods we eat, we have created a deficiency of chromium because chromium is pulled out of our own tissues to help metabolize the refined foods, which no longer have the chromium needed to metabolize them. The long-term result is a deficiency in chromium. So when we are taking in lots of refined carbohydrates and need chromium to help metabolize the sugar and to make the insulin work correctly, we become chromium deficient.
- There Is a Cure for Diabetes: The Tree of Life 21-Day+ Program by Gabriel Cousens

Some research also suggests that chromium polynicotinate is better absorbed than other forms. (The term polynicotinate indicates that the chromium is bound to vitamin B3, sometimes called nicotinic acid.) Meanwhile, research has shown that chromium picolinate helps to prevent weight gain associated with the use of the diabetic drug glipizide (Glucotrol). Other forms of chromium, such as chromium glycinate chelate, may work as well. Regardless of the specific form, the research on chromium and diabetes points to the greater efficacy of higher dosages, so we recommend trying 500 mcg twice daily.
- Stop Prediabetes Now: The Ultimate Plan to Lose Weight and Prevent Diabetes by Jack Challem

Reversing a chromium deficiency by supplementing the diet with chromium has also been demonstrated to lower body weight while increasing lean body mass. All of the effects of chromium appear to be due to increased insulin sensitivity. A chromium deficiency may be an underlying contributing factor to the large number of Americans suffering from diabetes, hypoglycemia, and obesity. There is evidence that marginal chromium deficiency is common in the United States. Although no RDA has been established for chromium, at least 200 mcg / day appears necessary for optimal sugar regulation.
- Textbook of Natural Medicine 2nd Edition Volume 2 by Michael T. Murray, ND

Recent studies suggest that chromium can prevent type II diabetes, or insulin resistance. Chromium functions by increasing the activity of insulin, thus reducing the amount of insulin required to control blood-sugar levels. In one study, Richard Anderson, Ph.D., of the U.S.D.A. Human Nutrition Research Center (working with Chinese researchers at Beijing Hospital) tested the effect of chromium on adult patients in the early stages of type II diabetes.
- Earl Mindell's Secret Remedies by Earl Mindell, R.Ph., Ph.D.

Based on observations that rats, which were fed a chromium-free diet, showed symptoms of diabetes mellitus type II, herbal drugs with an antidiabetic action were tested for their chromium content. Bilberry leaves were shown to contain a particularly high chromium level of 9.0 ppm. Chromium is a component of the so-called glucose tolerance factor, which is suitable for treating induced diabetes mellitus type II in animal experiments. Further research is required to determine whether the chromium content of the dried leaf is responsible for an antidiabetic action.
- Herbal Drugs and Phytopharmaceuticals: A Handbook for Practice on a Scientific Basis by Josef A. Brinckmann and Michael P. Lindenmaier

A few trials have reported no beneficial effects from chromium supplementation. All of these trials used 200 mcg or less of supplemental chromium, which is often not adequate for people with diabetes, especially if it is in a form that is poorly absorbed. The typical amount of chromium used in research trials is 200 mcg per day, although as much as 1,000 mcg per day has been used. Many doctors recommend up to 1,000 mcg per day for people with diabetes. Supplementation with chromium or brewer's yeast could potentially enhance the effects of drugs for diabetes.
- The Natural Pharmacy: Complete A-Z Reference to Natural Treatments for Common Health Conditions by Alan R. Gaby, M.D., Jonathan V. Wright, M.D., Forrest Batz, Pharm.D. Rick Chester, RPh., N.D., DipLAc. George Constantine, R.Ph., Ph.D. Linnea D. Thompson, Pharm.D., N.D.

Our refined oils contain no chromium. And even raw sugar contains 83 percent more chromium than the refined white product! Not only do these foods not supply chromium, they contribute to the loss of the chromium supply you were born with, because they use up some of your chromium stores in their metabolism. And our refined diet not only robs us of our chromium, it literally robs us of our health: witness the tragic rise in heart disease and blood sugar abnormalities (diabetes and hypoglycemia) in our country since World War II.
- The Complete Guide to Health and Nutrition by Gary Null

If you want to try chromium supplements, discuss it with your doctor. This is especially important if you have diabetes, since chromium may affect your blood sugar level. Also, many people make the mistake of taking chromium at the same time that they take vitamin C. Vitamin C interferes with the uptake of chromium. Taking more than 1,200 milligrams of vitamin C daily can cause diarrhea in some people.
- Prevention's Healing With Vitamins : The Most Effective Vitamin and Mineral Treatments for Everyday Health Problems and Serious Disease by The Editors of Prevention Magazine Health Books

About 90 percent of the population do not get enough chromium from their food. (Food sources of chromium include broccoli, brewer's yeast, and shellfish.) To make matters worse, the high-sugar diet typical of many Americans can increase the excretion of chromium, leaving less chromium in the body. Many researchers believe that chromium deficiency may be why Type II diabetes is a virtual epidemic in the United States. Here's yet another reason to take chromium picolinate: it may help you live longer.
- Earl Mindell's Supplement Bible: A Comprehensive Guide to Hundreds of NEW Natural Products that Will Help You Live Longer, Look Better, Stay Heathier, ... and Much More! by Earl Mindell, R.Ph., Ph.D.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027398_chromium_diabetes_natural.html#ixzz4IBPzsON8
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Lots of things help or hinder the progression of the disease but my personal view is that potential treatments are not the topic of this tread; people who are type one diabetics usually don't HAVE A weight problem other than losing weight to the point where they used to starve to death (it was caused wasting disease and no one knew why seemingly healthy teenagers simply faded away and died until modern times).

Type II is more complex, does respond in many people to dietary changes and supplements; but it isn't something to dick around with either if there is any choice in matter; that's because it is a PROGRESSIVE DISEASE with a GENETIC component.

Science doesn't totally understand all the genetics involved, but it does tend to run in families and while diet and environmental factors can play a huge role as to how EARLY the disease comes on in some people; if you have the genetics chances are that if you live long enough, you will get it sooner or later.

It also means that if you don't have the genetics, "making" someone diabetic via poor diet and environmental factors may be impossible or very difficult - the jury is still out on that one.

The point is that to me, having all sorts of "advice" in a thread about how the Big Pharma is now willing to MURDER people by pricing a drug for which there are no other options (for type 1) and no generic that can be purchased; is cruel because you can take chromium all day long and it is not going to replace a totally non functional pancreas.

There is pioneering work in creating artificial pancreas and some stem cell therapy that may one day put an end (or greatly limit) type 1; in reality more or less "cure it" but medical science isn't there yet.

A friend of mine in the US read the article I posted, did a bit of research today and said "do those companies want to be regulated or something?"

That's because the situation is so grave and the greed so over-the-top that it is the sort of thing that once the public realizes what is going on; is likely to have a severe backlash (and it should).

This may not be as dramatic as one dose costing 30,000 or whatever Mr. Yuppie Scum was doing with that other drug a few months ago but it potentially is much more deadly because of the sheer number of people who need insulin, need to have it in the proper amounts and who will cost the medical system/tax payers billions WHEN they become ill from the lack of it.

In the "old days" (like when my Great Aunt started to practice medicine) Type 1 diabetics just died; that was it, it was a death sentence; you might hang around for a few years before you wasted away or a few weeks but that was pretty much it.

Type two took longer (about 5 years) and since the ancient Greeks it was understood that diet did have an effect and could prolong life; even if it didn't totally cure.

But again, this thread is about pricing insulin of all drugs out of the price range of many people who need it; even though the creators of the drug realized it was so important they gave away the original patent as a gift to mankind.

I'm happy to have another thread for "my wife's second cousin tried" or even "I did this and it worked" but this is not the advice thread, this is "OMG I can't believe a civilized country is allowing this" thread...
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Regarding the thread title has anyone got a solution to the problem, I mean a succinct workable realistic solution, rather than just whinging on about the problem......strikes me this is a storm in a teacup that is easily solved.................

let me know please...........
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Regarding the thread title has anyone got a solution to the problem, I mean a succinct workable realistic solution, rather than just whinging on about the problem......strikes me this is a storm in a teacup that is easily solved.................

let me know please...........
Yes the public reacts with furry and get congress at the very least to pass legislation recognizing Pharmacy companies are MONOPOLIES and under US law if your a monopoly (aka people must use your service) there are different rules to pay by and a heck of a lot more regulation involved.

My hunch is there probably are varies anti-trust laws and the like already on the books that could help sort some of this - this isn't winging if your family member is likely to DIE from this and people will (and probably already have).

It isn't a small problem either; but like the epi pens this is life or death and for multiple thousands/millions of people; or as Nightwolf said "it isn't really capitalism if there is no competition" which is pretty much the definition of a monopoly situation.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
There is no money in preventing disease.....the profit is in treating disease. Hence the way our current system works.
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Yes the public reacts with furry and get congress at the very least to pass legislation recognizing Pharmacy companies are MONOPOLIES and under US law if your a monopoly (aka people must use your service) there are different rules to pay by and a heck of a lot more regulation involved.

My hunch is there probably are varies anti-trust laws and the like already on the books that could help sort some of this - this isn't winging if your family member is likely to DIE from this and people will (and probably already have).

It isn't a small problem either; but like the epi pens this is life or death and for multiple thousands/millions of people; or as Nightwolf said "it isn't really capitalism if there is no competition" which is pretty much the definition of a monopoly situation.

No there must be a specific problem with Insulin as your comments do not apply to other generic drugs........
 

RCSAR

Veteran Member
Time for the mexican cartels to bring in Insulin?

BTW I wonder what the cost is in mexico for the same drug?
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
I dunno, but alldaychemist carries it. They're "out of stock" on Lantus right now, but have 30/70 100 IU/cc in 10 cc bottles for $22, with a small discount if you order several.

My biggest concern would be heat during shipping. I don't know how much heat modern insulin tolerates...

Summerthyme
 

coalcracker

Veteran Member
The abortion generation is being euthanized

Karma

Not karma.
Rather, 2 sides of the same evil coin:

Both abortion and euthanasia are "convenience killings."

A humane society would build a few less tomahawk cruise missiles and use that money to provide life saving medications to all diabetics. Price gougers would be fined and then put in jail. All type 1 diabetics would be given CGMs (continuous glucose monitors) which would greatly assist with the control of the disease. Pipe dream...I know. Come back soon, Lord Jesus!
 
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