SCI In a scientific first, cloned monkeys are born. Will they accelerate biomedical research?

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Husband looked this over, it does seem to be a real article and the same news is in National Geographic and other mainstream publications - if they can clone monkeys cloning humans has probably either been done already (in China where this report is based) or will be very soon - only "ethics" stands in the way - Melodi
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In a scientific first, cloned monkeys are born. Will they accelerate biomedical research?
By SHARON BEGLEY @sxbegle JANUARY 24, 2018
Monkey-1600x900.jpg

Zhong Zhong, one of the first two monkeys created by somatic cell nuclear transfer.
QIANG SUN AND MU-MING POO/CHINESE ACADEMY OF SCIENCES
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here have been mice and cows and pigs and camels, bunnies and bantengs and ferrets and dogs, but ever since Dolly the sheep became the first cloned mammal in 1996, the list has had a conspicuous hole: primates. Now that hole has been filled.

Scientists in China reported on Wednesday in Cell that they had cloned two healthy long-tailed macaque monkeys from the cells of another macaque, using the Dolly technique. The two clones, born 51 and 49 days ago, were created from a fetus’s cells; so far, the scientists have not been able to make the tricky procedure work when they used cells from adult macaques. That would seem to postpone the dystopian day when cloning children and grown-ups becomes as mainstream as IVF. But because “the technical barrier [to cloning primates] is now broken,” co-author Mu-ming Poo of the Institute of Neuroscience in Shanghai told reporters, the technique “could be applied to humans” — something he said his team has no intention of doing and sees no reason for.

Cloning pioneers said the monkey clones represented, as Dr. Robert Lanza put it, “an impressive breakthrough, which overcomes the last major hurdle in the field.” Lanza co-led teams that cloned a gaur in 2000 and in 2014 used the Dolly technique to produce human embryos (but not pregnancies) from the cells of an adult.

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Before this, “no one was able to produce living offspring” through primate cloning, said Shoukhrat Mitalipov, of Oregon Health and Science University, who in 2013 also used the Dolly technique to create human embryos (technically, blastocysts) from the cells of an 8-month-old. (He did not use the embryos to create pregnancies either.) “These guys made it work, which is quite an achievement.”


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The cloning team said its breakthrough might one day be used to produce genetically identical monkeys for biomedical research. Most of the lab animals used to study diseases, from cancer to Alzheimer’s, are highly inbred mice. But mice don’t get every human disease or don’t get it the way people do. Mice genetically engineered to express the human cystic fibrosis gene, for instance, don’t develop that disease’s characteristic lung problems, and mice don’t mimic human neurological and psychiatric diseases such as schizophrenia and autism very well.

Zhong Zhong

Zhong Zhong and Hua Hua, the first monkey clones created by somatic cell nuclear transfer.
QIANG SUN AND MU-MING POO/CHINESE ACADEMY OF SCIENCES
If monkey clones can be created routinely, they can also be genetically altered, one gene at a time, with techniques such as CRISPR. “You can produce cloned monkeys with the same genetic background except the gene you manipulated,” senior scientist Qiang Sun told reporters. “This will generate real models not just for genetically based brain diseases, but also cancer, immune, or metabolic disorders.”

Postdoctoral fellow Zhen Liu spent three years optimizing the Dolly recipe for primates. Called somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT), the technique involves fusing a somatic cell — meaning anything other than a sperm or ovum — with an egg whose nucleus has been removed. (Zapping the egg with laser light helped, Liu found.) An hour or two later he used two chemicals to faux-fertilize the egg (no sperm needed), spurring it to start developing into an embryo.

The DNA in the somatic cell took over. As the egg divides and divides, the resulting embryo is a genetic copy of the animal the somatic cell came from. If transplanted into a surrogate mother, it develops into a fetus and, if all goes well, a newborn. In reality, no one had managed to get live births of cloned primates. A big stumbling block was that DNA from the somatic cell resisted reverting to its embryonic state where it is able “to express all the genes needed for embryonic development,” Poo said.

Related Story: Dolly the sheep died young, but her cloned sisters are still alive and kicking
“Most of the time the SCNT eggs don’t even produce an embryo,” Mitalipov said. But the Shanghai team produced hundreds of cloned monkey embryos, thanks to two chemicals: adding one called trichostatin A while and after the ovum was faux-fertilized, and then a molecule called Kdm4d once embryos formed. Together they reprogrammed the donor DNA, awakening genes needed to produce an entire organism. That increased the percentage of SCNT eggs that developed into embryos, and also improved the embryos’ quality, making them more like naturally fertilized eggs.

The efficiency was still very low. Trying to produce clones from adult monkey cells, the scientists got 192 embryos from 290 tries, with 22 pregnancies and two monkeys born alive; both died within hours. Using cells from fetuses, they got 109 embryos from 137 tries, six pregnancies, and two live births. They are Zhong Zhong and Hua Hua, both females and, since they came from cells of the same monkey, identical twins. “Zhonghua” means Chinese nation.

Experts disagree on whether, as the Chinese scientists argue, monkey clones would accelerate biomedical progress.

“There is a strongly held belief that monkeys will be better models because of greater similarities in brain and behavior,” said neuroscientist Robert Desimone of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and director of the McGovern Institute for Brain Research. “Too many failed clinical trials [of neurological and psychiatric diseases] in humans have been based on mouse models that turn out to be not predictive.”

Related Story: First human-pig chimeras created, sparking hopes for transplantable organs — and debate
Because humans share more of their DNA with primates than mice, cloning monkeys “opens up new possibilities for studying the genetic basis” of human traits and behaviors, Lanza said. “For instance, if there is one monkey that really likes to drink, and if scientists could clone it, they could find out whether [the behavior] has a genetic basis.”

On the other hand, although “you’d have to think that effects on higher [brain] functions would be more realistic in a [monkey] model, you’re still faced with the extreme difficulty of figuring out just what those effects are,” said Derek Lowe, a pharmaceutical chemist and blogger. “A monkey can’t tell you that he’s feeling a bit fuzzy, or is hallucinating. How would you pick up a side effect of suicidal ideation, for example? Or how would you be sure that a monkey is depressed, as opposed to (say) just mildly nauseated or tired all the time?”

Nor is it clear if cloned monkeys would be better than monkeys that are genetically diverse, like people. Clones might respond to experimental drugs or genetic manipulation more uniformly, producing cleaner experimental results. But genetic sameness might backfire, said Nadia Rosenthal, scientific director of the Jackson Laboratory, whose inbred mice are used by scientists around the world: Results on genetically uniform mice often apply only to that strain, not others, making them problematic models for studies that aim for broad, robust conclusions on, for example, “effects of mutations, diets, toxins, or drugs.” To mimic humans, she said, “we need more genetic diversity, not less.”

https://www.statnews.com/2018/01/24/first-cloned-monkeys-dolly-research/
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Dolly the sheep comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_(sheep)

Latest Wiki read on this is that Dolly's relatively short life was for reasons other than her cloning - and from cancer typical of her specie.

Subsequent generations bred from Dolly have faired statistically normal.

Dobbin
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
Anyone who believes it hasn't already happened to humans doesn't understand the science.
The only question is, when will the people responsible fess up and how will they spin it?
 

vessie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'm sure China has been doing this for a long time now.

They never let 'ethics' stand in the way of anything they want.

They have none. V
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Anyone who believes it hasn't already happened to humans doesn't understand the science.
The only question is, when will the people responsible fess up and how will they spin it?

Husband and I said the same thing to each other, this research is going on in China (and nearby countries) which really have pretty much no laws about it, only economics and practicality govern what is being done.

We both thought it likely the Chinese military is going to be all over this one (if they are not already); as they have a totally different "ethic" when it comes to producing the "best" soldiers and they think long term.

To wait 19 years for the first batch to grow up is no problem; planning ahead for the next 50, 100 or 500 years is no problem with or without cloning.

Husband was saying that you wouldn't want identical soldiers anyway (at least not in the same unit) but you would clone your best commanders, your best foot soldiers, your best piolets etc; raise them to do their jobs and then distribute them in groups.

Cloning is only potential anyway, which can be encouraged but it is still basically an identical twin, not a total copy of the original person.

As for the early aging problem; Dolly did have that problem but we checked and Carbon Copy (aka CC daughter of Rainbow) the kitty is still alive at 16 (good old age for a cat), gave birth naturally to one planned litter of kittens in her youth all of whom are also still doing fine.

But it was pointed out that while Rainbow was a shy kitty; her daughter/clone CC raised and handled a lot by people is friendly, outgoing and a real extrovert (and has different coat markings than her genetic twin/mom Rainbow).

So these are early days, but yeah, husband actually turned rather pale and checked; kind of hoping this was a hoax but it isn't and yes, it is highly likely there are already cloned baby people out there and if there are not yet; there likely will be very soon.

My views on that are mixed, few technologies are evil in and of themselves; you could use it to allow infertile couples to have children but it could also be used for trying to create super-soldiers raised like the Chinese do for their Olympic Child Athletes only under even harsher conditions.

For better or worse, the cat is now out of the bag; as is the Crisper Technology mentioned in the article that could allow for genetically engineering people even as adults, clones or not.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Hmmm Planet of the Apes....saw the movies, didn't end well as I recall.

Once again, just because we can do a thing, does not mean that we should do that thing.
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
I'm sure China has been doing this for a long time now.

They never let 'ethics' stand in the way of anything they want.

They have none. V

Well, they do, just not in the same way as we understand 'Ethics'. Ethics, like morals tend to be a POV idea versus something tangible.

Say, do you eat meat? I do. However, to a Vegan it is 'Unethical', 'Immoral' and akin to Murder. I think they are out of their gourds with that but, it is their ethics guiding them not mine.
 

vessie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Well, they do, just not in the same way as we understand 'Ethics'. Ethics, like morals tend to be a POV idea versus something tangible.

Say, do you eat meat? I do. However, to a Vegan it is 'Unethical', 'Immoral' and akin to Murder. I think they are out of their gourds with that but, it is their ethics guiding them not mine.

You got a point Sat, it's just to me, they are a lot less compassionate with their treatment of people and animals. V
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
Well, they do, just not in the same way as we understand 'Ethics'. Ethics, like morals tend to be a POV idea versus something tangible.

Say, do you eat meat? I do. However, to a Vegan it is 'Unethical', 'Immoral' and akin to Murder. I think they are out of their gourds with that but, it is their ethics guiding them not mine.

This is a fact ^^^^^

Even within China, the concepts of ethics and morals vary greatly. For that matter, they usually do in countries of large size and or population.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
You got a point Sat, it's just to me, they are a lot less compassionate with their treatment of people and animals. V

When viewed from your perspective that would certainly be the case. Conversely, many of them would view yours in the same light as you them.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Mainstream Chinese culture also traditionally has put a very high emphasis on the "good" of the Family, which later becomes the "good" of The State way ahead of the "good" for the individual.

Even the Communist Party Leaders know that they can only push this so far, and younger more educated and urban people are becoming more accustomed to the ideals of individual goals and dreams having at least as much importance as extended family or national goals.

But compared to most North Americans (Canada and the US); the individual's desires are not considered that "important" when it comes to over-all planning, especially for the future.

150 years ago, this often meant young teens being told who and when they would marry; or that one son would be assigned an education with a hope for the civil service, the other would be a farmer and the second daughter sold as a concubine.

Today, things are looser than when The Party tried to just assign people to jobs for 50 years, but planning isn't exactly done with the individual in mind.

Or at least this is my take on it, I plan to ask my Sister-in-law who has a doctorate in Sociology and has now spent a lot of time in China with her Chinese-American husband and son, and gets her take on things.

China is a huge place, this isn't everyone; but it is I think pretty true of the elites in charge at the moment.
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
Can some "scientist" on the forum with qualifications tell me why this is a legitimate area of research..........
 

Buick Electra

TB2K Girls with Guns
Anyone who believes it hasn't already happened to humans doesn't understand the science.
The only question is, when will the people responsible fess up and how will they spin it?

Correct! We had one that was our president recently.
 
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