HEALTH I wonder how many people die because they don't don't seek medical help in time

[Fritz_The_Cat]

I'm referring to those who are uninsured and have some meager assets to loose.

What if you owned a modest home a small saving and are barely able to keep your head above water. Suddenly you're faced with a medical disaster where you stand to loose everything if you seek medical aid.

I've know this to happen to two people, they lost it all and after their assets were drained, they died shortly afterwards.

These types of scenarios are more common than you may think and the medical industry is very effective at sweeping them out of sight.

Suicide is not uncommon in situation like this.

I can see myself facing such a situation and it's scary.

 

[MtnGal]

The stress of loosing everything can be just as big a killer as the disease. I'm sure there are lots who don't seek treatment soon enough because of the cost. I know going to the doctor is a last resort here unless it's a real emergency.

 

[Dex]

Go to Mexico. Easy to get in there and they have hospitals and doctors that are a lot cheaper. Why else do people go down there for liposuction or boob jobs?

 

[rafter]

I'd probably fall in to that category. No insurance. I only go to the Dr when absolutely necessary, and then only have the absolute necessary tests done. Its too bad that it has gotten so expensive that everyone can't get what they need.

 

[Deena in GA]

Unfortunately, I will probably fall into this category. Don't go to the doctor at all. In fact, the last time I went was almost 10 years ago. I'd rather just die than rack up tons of medical bills that we can't pay and there's no way I would risk losing our house due to medical bills. So I'll do what I can myself and trust the Lord for the rest.

 

[naturallysweet]

On the other hand, how many people aren't killed by doctors because they are afraid of doctor bills. Remember, 200,000 people are killed from medical mistakes each year.

if they can't find us, they can't kill us.

 

[Petunia]

I have had a number of negative experiences within our healthcare system. So now, I avoid going to a doctor and try to figure out how to cure myself.

 

[LayZBoy]

I only go to the doctor when all else fails in taking care of a medical problem at home.

 

[Doc1]

The percentage of those who die because they did not seek out timely medical services is exactly the same as the percentage of those who die with the finest of medical resources: 100%.

Best regards
Doc

 

[DustMusher]

The percentage of those who die because they did not seek out timely medical services is exactly the same as the percentage of those who die with the finest of medical resources: 100%.

Best regards
Doc

BINGO!

DM

 

[Melodi]

From my husband the medical student, not only is this a serious problem but it actually adds a great deal to the huge amounts of tax payer money in both the US and Ireland that goes to try to fix problems that would be very simple if treated early but turn into life threatening or even fatal conditions if left alone. In Ireland the problem is a broken public system that see's working people paying over 70 dollars a doctors visit (I know cheap by US standards but here, people just don't go until they drop unless they have a "medical card" - sort of like medicaide.

In the US the problem has been mostly working people who didn't have insurance through work and/or insurance that didn't pay for GP visits (or paid later so you have to come p with the money up front).

As I said, this is really a penny wise and pounds foolish way to run medicine because when the minor problem suddenly results in massive bleeding or collapse at work - the system takes over the person is rushed to the ER and the ICU where in both the US and Ireland if you are in danger of actual death they have to treat you (in the US they can toss you out as soon as are declared "stable" but they have to treat you first).

Much better to have a system that makes basic check ins as affordable as possible at the basic GP/check in level (maybe not totally free as the UK discovered people will come in for hangnails) but something like 5 dollars for those on low incomes 25 dollars for others or something.

Have the most commonly NEEDED drugs subsidized (Ireland does this with diabetic and heart patient drugs, again saves lots of money later) and make sure everyone can get their broken arm set.

The hard decisions then come with complicated and more expensive treatments, but you need fewer of them because more people are treated early - does not solve all problems , does not cure all disease but it sure does help - that's what DOES work in totally socialized systems like Sweden. The horror stories are usually about people with the conditions that are rarer and more expensive to treat (and need expensive drugs).

 

[West]

What POs me off the most is the mandated liabilities doctors have. I don't care about paying a doctor a $100 a hour or even more. It's the $100 aspern or the $5000 a day hospital cost that are again mandated by liabilities and so forth.

I worked on a old home the other day, called the house that babies built. It is a nice home, about 3500 square feet. I could see in the day light basement hand honned beams that carried the weight of the original 400 square foot home. A good doctor lived there from 1860 to the1900s and many people paid with their labor to build that mansion for the good doctors service. The owner now has done a lot of research and its vary true.

What happened? Lawyers and government. And getting worse.

 

[Tennessee gal]

I may find myself in this boat. Home paid for but health insurance is 600.00 per month with a 2500.00 deductible and then 80/20.
I am putting out over 10,000.00 a year out of pocket in medical and living on Social Security. You add house insurance, car insurance and property taxes and it won't be long until my savings will be gone.

I am praying now for the Lord to guide my steps. I just don't want to lose my home.

 

[LtPiper]

Even with the insurance/hospital shell game the cost for those with insurance are absolutely life savings draining.

Ask me how I know.......

 

[FarmerJohn]

Some people use their own toughness as well as cheapness to rationalize delaying going for medical help. That can be the smart move or it can be disastrous. For instance, shingles can be quickly and cheaply treated it you start treatment within 48 hours. If you've toughed it out for several weeks you can be left with long-term to permanent pain or worse.

 

[dstraito]

I have heard a lot of people talking about how high their deductibles have gone. I can see someone postponing a trip to the doc because it would represent a significant cost. Most people are accepting the higher deductible as a form of catastrophic insurance and most don't think whatever is wrong with them is catastrophic, they are living in denial. I bet there are a lot more people dying that would necessarily because of high deductibles

 

[nomifyle]

I had a bad experience last year with a medical clinic that wanted to do some unnecessary things to me. It pissed me off so much that I went back to the doctor that I went to before I moved (currently very reputable) and was told to never go to that clinic again. (all this paid for by my "still" husband's insurance). Then I got VA health care 100% paid and the PC doc I saw there told me the same thing the second doc told me, don't go there again.

The bad experience clinic is large and many people I know go there. I not only saw a PC but also a specialist, pissed the specialist off when I told him I wanted a second opinion. Good thing I did instead of just following "doctors orders". What they wanted to would not really have hurt my health, but I would have been labeled with something I don't have. Not good in these days and times. I question everything.

I've never been much of one to go to the doctor until during memopause I got to where I could not stand not being able to sleep. So I went for that and to continue to get that mild medication I have to get a check up every year and to get a mammogram. Sometimes I wonder if I should get those annual mammograms or not.

Judy

 

[WalknTrot]

High deductible insurance doesn't work for the average person because to have it, you really should have the amount of the deductible in $$$$'s in the bank. Unfortunately, it looks to me like high deductible is about all that Obamacare is offering in the exchanges.

Compounding the problem, now many health care providers want the deductible amount paid UP FRONT before a procedure. That makes insurance basically worthless to a lot of people.

It's a mess.

I really think that offering a chain of low cost "Dollar Store" type cash only clinics that treated only from the "Walmart generic $10.00" drug list could make a success in this country. You wouldn't get the best and the brightest care, and if you had heart attack, stroke or cancer, well, you'd prolly just have to die, but at least, morphine is still cheap and likely on the $10.00 list.

If you think I'm callous, think about it. It's a lot more humane than nothing at all, and that is what's probably down the road for a lot of people.

 

[Blizzard]

US society had demanded that Emergency Departments around the country act as a "safety net" for our dying health care system.

Just after I became a physician, the gubermint decided that I had to see anyone and everyone that presented to my ED regardless of their ability to pay. To me, that was enslavement - I had all those loans to become a boarded Emergency Doc, now I had no control over my patient population. I couldn't redirect non-emergency cases to their local physician. We never worry about emergency or urgency cases ability to pay - that has always been the mindset. We are profoundly concerned with the "I'm here because I don't have to pay.." self-pay crowd and the medicaid "I just thought we would stop by and see a doc about (insert minor medical problem that has been going on over two weeks)" crowd. We get very little reimbursement from medicaid and none from the "self-pays".

The averages at my Emergency Department are consistent: 10% Emergencies, 10% Urgencies, and 80% that can be easily handled in a clinic or doctor's office. To quote one of the older family physicians that was helping us out one night "I wouldn't even see this crap in my office. This is ridiculous!"

Do you want fries with that?

No, if you wait too long to see a physician because you don't want to pay for services, it is your own fault.

 

[TerryK]

I'm referring to those who are uninsured and have some meager assets to loose.

What if you owned a modest home a small saving and are barely able to keep your head above water. Suddenly you're faced with a medical disaster where you stand to loose everything if you seek medical aid.

I've know this to happen to two people, they lost it all and after their assets were drained, they died shortly afterwards.

These types of scenarios are more common than you may think and the medical industry is very effective at sweeping them out of sight.

Suicide is not uncommon in situation like this.

I can see myself facing such a situation and it's scary.

Interesting, but Doc1 said it best. 100% of everyone, rich or poor, we are all going to die and it will usually be from a medical condition.
The richest people in the world still die of cancer or heart attack or kidney failure.
Yeah, those with resources can prolong the agony a little while with radiation, chemo, and transplants and anti rejection drugs that usually cause them to succumb to some other ailment, but in the end, we are all dust.

The most important thing people can do to prolong their life doesn't cost much. Stop eating junk food. Eat less. Don't smoke, and drink only a little. Get a moderate amount of exercise. Try to stay away from known carcinogens in your food and in your environment. Then you might live to whatever natural lifespan your genes are programmed for. You can't fight your genes.

Pay attention to things like pre-diabetes. Have a friend who is a diabetic? Ask him to test your fasting blood sugar and again 2 hours after you've eaten a normal meal.
Many people eating the food people eat today are diabetic and don't know it until their feet get numb, or their vision gets blurry or they have that first heart attack.

My son works at a free charity clinic one night a week. He sees patients who have no money and no insurance. He orders x-rays and MRIs if needed. Yes people come in with advanced tumors with a poor prognosis, but he mostly sees people with health problems due to lifestyle. Health problems that are easy to prevent with proper lifestyle and most are even cheap to treat if the patient is will to change their lifestyle.

He says one of the best things the government could do for general healthcare in this country would be to make basic simple and cheap or freee clinics and tests available to everyone instead of Obamacare. It would be much cheaper and more effective than Obamacare.

Most generic drugs are very cheap. There are over 400 available at Walmart for $4. Publix will fill antibiotic prescriptions at no charge.
Publix also fills metformin prescriptions (a common diabetes drug) for free too.

Very simple, basic and yes, inexpensive healthcare, especially preventative healthcare would be the single greatest medical improvement this country could make.

 

[kittyknits]

The biggest part of preventative health care is not eating the standard American diet anymore. It can be hard to do for most people. JMHO

 

[Countrybumpkin]

Maybe I look at it all wrong, but if I found I had cancer, say, and it didn't look all that promising as far as an outcome, I'd ask to be made comfortable, and just wait to die. I refuse to allow my wife to use my insurance money trying to keep me alive when it could be used for our daughters future education, or just to live on. I'm not afraid of dying, and am more worried about my families welfare than I am trying every medicine known to man to try and live 6 months longer.

 

[Fred's Horseradish]

Walmart has medicine for only $4, but you have to bribe a Dr $100-125 to get it.

 

[TerryK]

Walmart has medicine for only $4, but you have to bribe a Dr $100-125 to get it.

Not always. As I said, my son works at a free clinic and he writes prescriptions, and it doesn't cost his patients a single cent.
There are more than half a dozen free clinics in the Orlando area. It's crowded and a little unpleasant waiting in line with all the people, but you do get medical care for free.

Free clinics are not the Mayo Clinic, but the care and the credentials of the people working there are often surprisingly good.
Many very exclusive and expensive doctors do their one day a week 4 hours of charity work in such clinics. One of the biggest problems they have is actually the patients, who refuse to follow directions, or take their medications, or come back for a follow-up because they frequently have multiple issues that need to be addressed.

 

[nomadcrna]

Very lacking in critical thinking skills.

On the other hand, how many people aren't killed by doctors because they are afraid of doctor bills. Remember, 200,000 people are killed from medical mistakes each year.

if they can't find us, they can't kill us.

 

[TerryK]

What is amazing is the number of people who treat their body like an old beater pick em up truck, eat junk, smoke drink an do drugs, then expect to get the worlds greatest mechanic to work on them, for less than they paid for their last junk food meal.

 

[Sebastian]

On the other hand, how many people aren't killed by doctors because they are afraid of doctor bills. Remember, 200,000 people are killed from medical mistakes each year.

if they can't find us, they can't kill us.

http://www.webdc.com/pdfs/deathbymedicine.pdf

This source says the number is 783,936 per year at a cost of $282 billion.

Breaks down like this:

Condition Deaths Cost Author
Adverse Drug Reactions 106,000 $12 billion Lazarou(1), Suh (49)
Medical error 98,000 $2 billion IOM(6)
Bedsores 115,000 $55 billion Xakellis(7), Barczak (8)
Infection 88,000 $5 billion Weinstein(9), MMWR (10)
Malnutrition 108,800 ----------- Nurses Coalition(11)
Outpatients 199,000 $77 billion Starfield(12), Weingart(112)
Unnecessary Procedures 37,136 $122 billion HCUP(3,13)
Surgery-Related 32,000 $9 billion AHRQ(85)
Total 783,936 $282 billion

 

[TerryK]

Then why is everyone bitching about healthcare.
The solution according to your numbers is just don't seek medical attention.
See how that works out for you.

 

[naturallysweet]

Very lacking in critical thinking skills.

Very lacking in online manner. You can disagree with me without putting down my intelligence.

Doctors have their place. If I had a broken bone, i would find my way to one ASAP.

But they do kill 200,000 to 783,936 people a year from mistakes, and sometimes outright murder.

 

[TerryK]

Very lacking in online manner. You can disagree with me without putting down my intelligence.

Doctors have their place. If I had a broken bone, i would find my way to one ASAP.

But they do kill 200,000 to 783,936 people a year from mistakes, and sometimes outright murder.

Now that you clarified your position, I think I agree with you.
Doctors are of course needed, but too many go running to them for every runny nose.
If you are in the hospital it is wise to have your own advocate. I have a daughter and a son who are both nurses and when I was in the hospital I basically had one of them there most of every day.
Another medical professional can catch a lot of things a patient wouldn't notice. Mistakes in meds etc.
A hospital is a big bureaucracy, and like any bureaucracy it s filled with inefficiency and errors, so you've got to be careful.

 

[summerthyme]

I keep asking people who intend to "go bare" without insurance what they DO plan on doing if they develop pancreatitis, or suffer a compound fracture. So far, the consensus seems to be "hope like hell it doesn't happen". Ouch...

Still, BTDT, and have been fortunate that we are very healthy, in general. But all it takes is one bad fall, getting kicked/gored/stomped by a cow (BTDT, and stitched myself up) bad enough to be beyond typical "home health care" (even of a fairly advanced variety) and you're in deep kimchee.

I've run into doctors of every stripe- from brilliant healers to incompetent bumblers, and more than one blatant drug addict whose need to score a high was a lot more important to them than their patient's needs. The problem is, the average layperson can't tell the difference, and now- especially now, with ObamaNoCare- I fear that 'firing' an incompetent doctor will be nearly impossible.

I envy the folks who have a doctor who actually pays more the lipservice to a partnership between medico and patient. I had an OB like that once- she wasn't happy about me choosing to give birth at home, but she respected my right to make that choice, and once I explained that I needed to be able to trust her to give me ACCURATE info about my health so I could make an informed decision, we got along fine.

Too many- the majority- of doctors out here have the paternalistic attitude of "I've got the education, you're just a patient- shut up and take your medicine". To say that doesn't work with me is putting it mildly!

But I have the confidence to be able to say "ok, that is almost certainly a bad ankle sprain. It's possible there is a hairline fracture, but since treatment would be the same, we'll treat it at home (rest, ice, elevation, a soft cast and crutches) and observe it for a few days. 99% of the time, it works just fine. 1% of the time, it may need further care, which is when you hopefully have a decent family doctor who can help you get the care you need.

And yes, a patient advocate is vital if you're in the hospital. I trained myself to be my own advocate- but then, I was conscious, even though very ill and in pain. I asked questions about every med, every IV, every order. I wasn't very popular with some of the staff, but that was more likely because I caught them in multiple mistakes, and didn't back down. I avoid doctors and hospitals like the plague these days, and with good reason!

Summerthyme

 

[Fritz_The_Cat]

Hey Blizzard, you being a doctor should be smarter than this. Let me point out a simple fact to you, I'll type slow so it doesn't go over your head.

It's not that people DON'T WANT to pay, it's that they can't AFFORD to pay. Get it? If not, let me know and I'll try to explain it again.

It really pisses me off that medical care, being as vital as it is, is so damned unaffordable to those who need it the most.

And btw, I don't give a damn about your personal finances because you don't give a damn about my health and well being.

Screw you and your entire industry. Yea, I'm pissed. Thanks for affirming what greedy, heartless bastards you really are.

US society had demanded that Emergency Departments around the country act as a "safety net" for our dying health care system.

Just after I became a physician, the gubermint decided that I had to see anyone and everyone that presented to my ED regardless of their ability to pay. To me, that was enslavement - I had all those loans to become a boarded Emergency Doc, now I had no control over my patient population. I couldn't redirect non-emergency cases to their local physician. We never worry about emergency or urgency cases ability to pay - that has always been the mindset. We are profoundly concerned with the "I'm here because I don't have to pay.." self-pay crowd and the medicaid "I just thought we would stop by and see a doc about (insert minor medical problem that has been going on over two weeks)" crowd. We get very little reimbursement from medicaid and none from the "self-pays".

The averages at my Emergency Department are consistent: 10% Emergencies, 10% Urgencies, and 80% that can be easily handled in a clinic or doctor's office. To quote one of the older family physicians that was helping us out one night "I wouldn't even see this crap in my office. This is ridiculous!"

Do you want fries with that?

No, if you wait too long to see a physician because you don't want to pay for services, it is your own fault.

 

[Vicki]

It makes sense now in why and how I was treated the way I was being a "self pay". I have paid all of my life for everything I've ever received and found the last ten years or so that I was treated very differently then that of others I would talk to. I couldn't afford insurance being self employed and a single Mom but I set aside money each and every month for emergencies and that included medical.

I had no problem paying a $75 office fee or even $125 or $150 fee for my visits and numberous times had to pay $1000 or more over the years for certain proceedures my Doctors would deem neccessary. (Btw, it turned out they weren't) I wasn't even too upset when it cost me $5000 to $6000 for some tests that Doctors seemed to think was manditory in trying to find out what was wrong with me for the three years preceeding that last hospital visit even though it totally wiped out my savings.

What took the straw for me though was the hospital visit two winters ago when after years of being not treated or even really being looked at by a single Doctor despite all the tests and money I had to spend, I ended up with a severe case of shingles since my immune system was shot. I had been so sick I had to leave work and had been out of work for 10 months by then.

I had the most excruciating pain in my lower spine that woke me in the middle of the night. All I could do was cry and pretty much scream out in pain. It awoke my oldest son who became very concerned for me and insisted he take me to the emergency room. I went in spite of deciding I would never go to a Doctor again because of the previous three years of no diagnosis, no treatment and no help. I was in so much pain.

When we got there I was quite literally delirious and had the hardest time trying to tell the woman at the desk what she wanted to know. I told her I was self pay and that must of been why I was treated the way I was. For the next three hours that I was in that hospital, I had a nurse who asked me on a scale of 1 to 10 what my pain was and I screamed a 9. She gave me something in an IV that calmed my pain and put me in a half zombie sleep state.
(To compare I must say I went through very bad labor pains with my eldest son and the nurses told me the kind I had were the very worst labor pains a woman could go through. This was worse.)

During that three hours it must of been a change of shifts for the Doctors on duty because I saw two different ones during that period. The first seemed concerned and spent about 5 minutes with me. The second didn't seem concerned at all and rolled his eyes when I was telling him of how much my stomach hurt, which it did. He also spent no more then 5 minutes with me.

I drifted in and out of sleep during that whole time and at some point they wheeled me down and gave me a CT scan. I vaguely remember going through that or getting home. The next day my pain was back but not near as severe as the night before. The rash appeared on my lower back sometime after that and for the next week the pain slowly subsided.

A week or more later I showed a good friend my rash and she's the one who told me I had shingles. She's a CNP. It all makes sense now seeing I had been being poisoned for quite a few years with a natural gas leak in my home that was discovered just about a year ago. It's documented on here. I started a thread about it. My immune system just couldn't take it anymore and that is why all the tests could find nothing wrong with me.

The money I had to pay for that last hospital visit was close to $4000 for a three hour stay, a pain med and 10 minutes of two doctors. My savings was already exhausted, I was out of work sick and had nothing left to give. I started paying monthly payments and ended up losing my business, I sold it by the grace of God and payed off all my debt within 11 months. Everyone was PAID!

I'm sorry but saying that we who are self pay or not insured are looking to scam you or we are the scum of the earth just doesn't fly with me. I'm deeply offended by all of this and the amount of money that is charged today for all of this is obscene. The health insurance industry is no better and as far as I'm concerned the whole medical profession needs to collapse and start over. We are all in this together and someday it may be you who are treated as the second class citizen. We reap what we sow afterall. This system is broken.

In the last 4 to 5 years I had to spend $10,000 which to me was a lot of money on Doctors and hospitals and tests and I got nothing to show for it. Not one person helped me except maybe the nurse who gave me the pain med and not one person went out of their way to get to the bottom of my health issues. After all that I'm expected to pay for an insurance to keep this system going in which the quality of care is going to be reduced or rationed. I don't think so.

 

[Blizzard]

It's not that people DON'T WANT to pay, it's that they can't AFFORD to pay. Get it? If not, let me know and I'll try to explain it again.

Fritz, I am sorry, you are going to have to explain this again. Your original post asked how many people die because they don't seek medical help in time. I pointed out that Emergency Departments throughout the United States are required to see anyone who presents, regardless of their ability to pay. So, whether they don't want to pay or can't afford to pay, they can still see an Emergency Physician in an Emergency Department, 24/7/365 for as long as it lasts.

If you are implying that healthcare overall is too expensive. I totally agree. To explain why would require more bandwidth and space than I have available. It is a multi-faceted, complex problem that no one in the near future is going to solve.

And btw, I don't give a damn about your personal finances because you don't give a damn about my health and well being.

You may be right here.

1. You are not my patient. I take personal responsibility for those who are. Tonight, that would be 34 so far (in my 12 hour shift on my birthday). Now, I do piss of the drug seekers and the drunks, but they still get appropriate care with appropriate follow-up.

2. You apparently don't value my opinion or that of my colleagues. So, no matter what I say, it wouldn't get through your frustration, anger and pain. I can only spread my compassion so far before it is lost. If you chose not to value my efforts, so be it.

3. Nowhere in the Constitution of these United States does it say Healthcare is a right. While medical care as some level is vital, how do you balance resources with every human’s effort to prolong their life? Add the ever increasing hands grabbing for, and diluting that healthcare dollar resource and you have a diminishing system that is about to collapse.

Thanks for affirming what greedy, heartless bastards you really are.

The 5 ALS Ambulance Services, 56 (at last count) BLS Ambulance Services, two Search & Rescue Teams, two HazMat Teams, one Forest Firefighting Team and the Tactical Team that receive my services for free clearly supports your assessment. The fact that I still work an 80-hour week after retiring, but only get paid for just under half of it again confirms your assessment. Gotta pay the malpractice insurance somehow. The extra funds go to buying medical supplies for the free clinic I run, and to pay taxes, permits and fees..... By the way, O-Care will make that illegal shortly.

Best of luck Fritz. Godspeed.

It makes sense now in why and how I was treated the way I was being a "self pay".

Vicki, I caused some confusion here, and it was clearly my fault. Sorry. At the hospitals I work at, we have three classes of SELF-PAY. One is the group that can afford to pay cash. Actually, that represents the Amish population as well as the rich. Another is the group that, like you, can't afford the high cost of care, but makes every effort to do the right thing. The third, and largest group are those who will openly state they come to the Emergency Department because they "don't have to pay."

Now, the other side of the coin (one I have absolutely no control over) is that hospitals jack up prices (called cost shifting) for SELF-PAY patients because they don't have the group bargaining power the Fed and insurance companies have. It is absolutely wrong to do so and I argue the point all the time, but to no avail. It hurts the middle group (the people who can't afford it, but are trying to do the right thing) the worst, and I think it is totally unfair. When I become Emperor, it will change....but until then, it sucks.

Sorry for any implied besmirchment. I stated it poorly.

I and most of my colleagues also agree the system is horribly broken and needs to be collapsed and started all over again. I am afraid that is coming in the worst possible form. I will do the best I can for as many people as I can until I can't anymore. That's just the way God made me, and I don't have a problem with that.

Stay safe and healthy.

 

[Vicki]

Vicki, I caused some confusion here, and it was clearly my fault. Sorry. At the hospitals I work at, we have three classes of SELF-PAY. One is the group that can afford to pay cash. Actually, that represents the Amish population as well as the rich. Another is the group that, like you, can't afford the high cost of care, but makes every effort to do the right thing. The third, and largest group are those who will openly state they come to the Emergency Department because they "don't have to pay."

Now, the other side of the coin (one I have absolutely no control over) is that hospitals jack up prices (called cost shifting) for SELF-PAY patients because they don't have the group bargaining power the Fed and insurance companies have. It is absolutely wrong to do so and I argue the point all the time, but to no avail. It hurts the middle group (the people who can't afford it, but are trying to do the right thing) the worst, and I think it is totally unfair. When I become Emperor, it will change....but until then, it sucks.

Sorry for any implied besmirchment. I stated it poorly.

I and most of my colleagues also agree the system is horribly broken and needs to be collapsed and started all over again. I am afraid that is coming in the worst possible form. I will do the best I can for as many people as I can until I can't anymore. That's just the way God made me, and I don't have a problem with that.

Stay safe and healthy.

I appreciate that Blizzard. I also thank you for your reply and your passionate nature whether it's for or against the things happening that are out of our control. I realize life isn't fair but the older I get I'm more inclined to think it could be if it wasn't for the humans at the top pulling the strings. You of all people can see how our very lives hang in the balance of these people's decisions. Again we are all in this together. My wish is that we can band together and make the changes needed. Maybe after the collapse we will be able to.

Blessings'
Vicki

 

[Firebird]

Fritz, I am sorry, you are going to have to explain this again. Your original post asked how many people die because they don't seek medical help in time. I pointed out that Emergency Departments throughout the United States are required to see anyone who presents, regardless of their ability to pay. So, whether they don't want to pay or can't afford to pay, they can still see an Emergency Physician in an Emergency Department, 24/7/365 for as long as it lasts.

If you are implying that healthcare overall is too expensive. I totally agree. To explain why would require more bandwidth and space than I have available. It is a multi-faceted, complex problem that no one in the near future is going to solve.



You may be right here.

1. You are not my patient. I take personal responsibility for those who are. Tonight, that would be 34 so far (in my 12 hour shift on my birthday). Now, I do piss of the drug seekers and the drunks, but they still get appropriate care with appropriate follow-up.

2. You apparently don't value my opinion or that of my colleagues. So, no matter what I say, it wouldn't get through your frustration, anger and pain. I can only spread my compassion so far before it is lost. If you chose not to value my efforts, so be it.

3. Nowhere in the Constitution of these United States does it say Healthcare is a right. While medical care as some level is vital, how do you balance resources with every human’s effort to prolong their life? Add the ever increasing hands grabbing for, and diluting that healthcare dollar resource and you have a diminishing system that is about to collapse.



The 5 ALS Ambulance Services, 56 (at last count) BLS Ambulance Services, two Search & Rescue Teams, two HazMat Teams, one Forest Firefighting Team and the Tactical Team that receive my services for free clearly supports your assessment. The fact that I still work an 80-hour week after retiring, but only get paid for just under half of it again confirms your assessment. Gotta pay the malpractice insurance somehow. The extra funds go to buying medical supplies for the free clinic I run, and to pay taxes, permits and fees..... By the way, O-Care will make that illegal shortly.

Best of luck Fritz. Godspeed.



Vicki, I caused some confusion here, and it was clearly my fault. Sorry. At the hospitals I work at, we have three classes of SELF-PAY. One is the group that can afford to pay cash. Actually, that represents the Amish population as well as the rich. Another is the group that, like you, can't afford the high cost of care, but makes every effort to do the right thing. The third, and largest group are those who will openly state they come to the Emergency Department because they "don't have to pay."

Now, the other side of the coin (one I have absolutely no control over) is that hospitals jack up prices (called cost shifting) for SELF-PAY patients because they don't have the group bargaining power the Fed and insurance companies have. It is absolutely wrong to do so and I argue the point all the time, but to no avail. It hurts the middle group (the people who can't afford it, but are trying to do the right thing) the worst, and I think it is totally unfair. When I become Emperor, it will change....but until then, it sucks.

Sorry for any implied besmirchment. I stated it poorly.

I and most of my colleagues also agree the system is horribly broken and needs to be collapsed and started all over again. I am afraid that is coming in the worst possible form. I will do the best I can for as many people as I can until I can't anymore. That's just the way God made me, and I don't have a problem with that.

Stay safe and healthy.

Damn fine explanation you provided. Wish we had more doctors like you out there.

 

[nomadcrna]

Ok, I'll say this slowly. Look at the list. First is it valid? I have no idea and I'm not going to research it.
But just looking at the causes, it is very obvious that most are not from mistakes.
Adverse drug reactions, infections, malnutrition, LOL. Really?
Big difference between known side effects, complications and acts of god.

Now if you truly find a number for the people providers kill through mistakes, it will be miniscule compared to the number providers save.
So for the critically thinking impaired, if you kill 100000 people through mistakes but save 10,000,000 people. You get the point.
Like Terry said, just don't seek medical care, it is a free country.

Very lacking in online manner. You can disagree with me without putting down my intelligence.

Doctors have their place. If I had a broken bone, i would find my way to one ASAP.

But they do kill 200,000 to 783,936 people a year from mistakes, and sometimes outright murder.

 

[Heretic]

I'm referring to those who are uninsured and have some meager assets to loose.

What if you owned a modest home a small saving and are barely able to keep your head above water. Suddenly you're faced with a medical disaster where you stand to loose everything if you seek medical aid.

I've know this to happen to two people, they lost it all and after their assets were drained, they died shortly afterwards.

These types of scenarios are more common than you may think and the medical industry is very effective at sweeping them out of sight.

Suicide is not uncommon in situation like this.

I can see myself facing such a situation and it's scary.

The lack of good health insurance is not the only problem.

In 1971 I had a nasty pain in my side. I thought appendicitis so I went to the ER. The intern told me that yea your appendix is a little inflamed and gave me antibiotics and sent me home. Over the 30 years I would have occasional severe pain but didn't think about it. In May/June of 2001 I had mild pneumonia and our GP had me on a course of strong antibiotics. At the end of June that treatment stopped. Three days later I felt real bad, like death warmed over. My side had a constant low level pain. One evening I changed the water pump in a friends 1960 pick up truck. Easy peasy. It should have taken 30 minutes but took 3 hours. I went to bed exhasted thinking that maybe I should visit our GP the next day if the pain continued. About midnight I was awakened by a grenade going off in my gut/side. I called the 'ask a nurse' to see what she thought. Ask a nurse was the screening for hospital treatment. When I was through with the details she wanted to send an ambulance. But I decided to drive myself to the ER. Yea stupid runs in my family.

I awakened my wife and told her what was happening.
When we arrived at the ER, I had used my ham radio 2M rig with an autopatch to let them know I was comming, the took me straight to a surgical suite and the surgeon arrived about 5 minutes later. The next morning he gave me the best ass chewing I have ever received. He told me that he had seen worse cases, but mine was as bad as it could get before rupture.
When I explained about the 1971 ER visit he just grimaced and told me I was one very lucky fool.

Our GP was very angry and wanted to know why I had never mentioned the continuing pain to him. I explained that the ER MD had told me I would have bouts of pain but it was 'no big deal'.

So even reasonably intelligent people with good insurance can mess up and die.

While in the hospital the surgeon told me that most men who die from "heart attack" have frank symptoms at least 2 days before they 'get in real trouble' and that many try self medicating with antacids.

Terry