hunker-in-bunker, practical applications when the flu is here

[breezyhill]

hello everybody,

i need some ideas for the practical implications of staying put/isolation, when this thing hits.

for example;

what is the distance, feet or inches, to stay away from people when in public?

when staying home, let's say, on five acres, bounded on one side by the road, if someone has the flu and drive by with car windows open and is coughing, and the germs spew out the window, how long are the germs viable to infect someone that might cross that place on the road to get to the mailbox?

how long does the flu germ stay on surfaces that you could touch and be exposed to? for instance, someone with BF coughs, covers their mouth, touches a doorknob, or something in a store, and you come along....for how long is that germ capable of infecting you?
................................................

this really happened to me, can someone explain this???

last december my daughter, 24 became seriously ill and went to the doctor, who suspected meningitis and sent her to the hospital. after an overnight stay, and a spinal and isolation procedures while testing her, they sent her home. diagnosis; flu.

that poor girl ran a fever that lasted a week, with temps in the 103/104 range, and was on tylenol, 1000 mg every six hours, with advil, 500 mg, staggered in between the tylenol at three hours, because the fever just wouldn't come down.

during the worst of it, three days, i kept cold cloths on her arms and legs and tummy and forehead. i spoon fed her ice chips and helped her to the bathroom and sponge-bathed her.

the doctor gave us prescriptions for tamiflu. my mother stayed with us to help. DH took over all my chores regarding the animals, and my mom kept things going in the house while i took care of D. mom and DH took the tamiflu. i didn't.

they never got the flu from DD...but, neither did i.

i was extremely careful and used hand sanitizer all the time, in addition to not touching around my face when i had been touching/caring for my DD.

but i dont' understand, when she was sooo sick, and coughing, etc., why i didn't get sick just from the inhalation of the same air that she was exhaling, when i was in such close proximity to her.

..........

i would really like to start a discussion on these kinds of things and if the thread drifts in terms of practicalities that i haven't thought of, that's fine with me.

thanks so much,
breezyhill

 

[north runner]

That's happened to me. I was sick as a dog with flu for over a week (and an additional three weeks of recovery) while my 16yo niece who was staying with us never so much as got the sniffles. It still baffles us My theory is when she was here in school in Ny being exposed to all the nasties I was living out in the remote western regions of the u.s. where I was never exposed to that particular strain of flu.

For treatment I drank a lot of orange juice as I recall and took aspirin for the fever but I was still plenty sick with a 101-102 fever.

 

[libtoken]

Remember that if you live in major cities, flu can strike you at ANY TIME. One of my worst bouts ever was in JULY (probably some tourist from the other side of the world coughed in the bus or train).

Also note that at least one major HMO is already ramping up to start the flu jabs for its high-risk population (maybe so they can tell right away if a protected person comes down with something nasty, ha.ha.).

 

[John H]

Perhaps a couple of answers...

SARS remained active on hard surfaces for 48-72 hours.

Tamiflu does not prevent or cure the flu. It slows down the flu replication, giving your body's immune system enough time to build up a sufficient precisely targeted response to kill it.

John H

 

[tosca]

Tamiflu

Where do you get this Tamiflu? Thank you. Mari Susan

 

[Onebyone]

My daughter was just pretty sick with a cold or flu (?) with us living in the same house but I never caught it. I would wipe knobs and handles and toilet seat at least once a day and somethings several times a day. I would also wash hands frequently. I never caught it. I figured the good Lord was watching over me answering my prayers for her to get well and me to not get sick along with the sanitizing things I did. Also I could have had that cold or flu virus earlier in my life so had some immunity maybe. Don't know if you catch the same flu twice or not.

I also kept the temp in the house rather cool.

Gave daughter Black Elderberry syrup and she started to get better in about 3 or 4 days and cough didn't hang around for a month like they normally do after the flu either.

 

[CarolynA]

Last night I was thinking about the logistics of bugging in and what we would need to think about that's different than our usual preps. Here are some of the things I thought about:

Surgical gloves & masks : we would need to get a supply way before the flu hit.

Envelopes & stamps : If you can't pay your bills online you could at least call the company for the amount due & then mail them a check without the payment stub.

Garbage collection: OK, so you're bugged in but you still need to put the trash out. That means that the trash can will have been touched by other people.
You will need to develop a plan to wear gloves when you bring the can in as well as a way to disinfect the handles before you used it again.

Mail delivery: If you end up hunkering down for weeks what in the heck are you going to do with all that mail that will stack up? And where do you get that mail? At your house? At the post office? That's going to require some sort of plan. I haven't worked my plan out fully yet but it will probably include using gloves & mask to get the mail, scoop it into a container, & deal with it later.

Meter readers: You have to figure out if the meter reader has to touch anything that you will be touching later. In my case I have a gate so I will have to disinfect the gate after they leave.

Medicines: Lots of folk have to have prescriptions filled. Even if you get them by mail they have been handled. Got to figure out a plan for this....

I think bugging in with no outside contact might be a bit of a challenge in this day & age! Yikes!!!

 

[Herbmountain]

If you get it, where you get it? That does not come into factor. What is most important is your immune system. Some people get exposed and never come down with the virus, while others that come into the same contact get sick as a dog. It depends! I keep saying this. We are not machines that all experience the same symptoms and have the same bodies. It is more how our body responds to infection, our health, our immune system.

 

[Inkywon]

Lysol spray everything ??? Good questions on this thread. When my 3 kids were small and in public school. Seemed like they came down with anything going around. I felt like I kept a sterile house, etc.. Then I got in the habit of Spraying their backpacks, books Things that had been to school with lysol. Shoes sprayed top to bottom, and even inside the car. I know a little extreme, but cut the illnesses remarkably. Kids now grown say I even sprayed them Inky

 

[kelee877]

If the avain flu hits as badly as they are saying..

1. I doubt there would be any mail delivery..mailperson has their family to think about also..and they saying is come rain,sleet, hail or snow..NOT avaian flu..

2. No garbage pick up......would you be willing to go around and pick up the garbage in a major pandemic..never know what would be in those bags..and then all garbage presoanl would be in serious trouble..

3. Bills might have to be out on hold until this clears the air..from what I understand pandemics come in 3-4 waves..not all at once..depending on what the governments have set up.. . In order for you to get your checks especially now with derict(spelled wrong) deposit..someone has to be there to push the button..would not be me, I would not show up at the office, and take th chance..

If this hits as the MSM and Governments have been warning..
The world as we know it today will never be the same again..everything will come to screeching halt...At least that is what I am prepping for..hunker in for at the least3-4 months(or vaccine that proves works) and still they will have to come to my house and give it to me..and the longest about 1-2 years..
Yes that bad..guess I am living on the far side of the scale..but to much girl guides and being cub and beaver leader for years has taught me BE PREPARED..

 

[Gizmo]

Kellee - I was thinking the same thing. Those folks that pick up the garbage etc certainly aren't going to want to touch other peoples stuff either. It is selfish to think of it as a one sided problem.

I worry about work. I can't NOT go to work just because I am afraid of getting the flu. I could only stay home if they closed the company. The company will go under = no job and my bills won't be paid. It would be in my best interest to go to work. Time for gloves, masks and disinfectant!

 

[duchess47]

I've been doing a lot of thinking about the flu and the fact that I can't not go to work (public library) and currently have family members living with me that are employed at public places also (Walmart and a bank).

I remember when my son worked at a vet hospital he would come home and immediately walk to the laundry room and throw his scrubs in the wash. He did that to make sure none of our animals picked up some of the contagious diseases he was exposed to throughout the day.

That is going to be SOP now at my house - immediately change clothes and put the ones from work in the laundry. I'm hoping that will cut down some on gerns spread to the rest of the family.

 

[Mrs. Peavey]

This past two weeks we've had a flu here where I live......it's in our schools and neighborhood. Our daughter came down with it, followed by DH, then our grandson, then myself - I'm still recovering from it. But our other daughter hasn't got it yet, and she's been exposed by the rest of the family. The neighbors next door and on the other side of them also have had it. In each family, it seems that at least one person didn't come down with it. It's a nasty virus - chills, aches, sore throat, head and chest congestion.

Often, people don't get a particular strain of the flu because they've already had it or a similiar strain of it earlier in life and have an immunity.

In the case of mail.........spray the inside of your malbox with a disinfectant spray on a regular basis. Retrieve mail with disposabile gloves, spray inside of a plastic bag with disinfectant spray and place mail in the bag and close the bag tightly. Hopefully any germs on the mail would be killed within a few hours. But the best alternative would be to pay bills online and simply discard junk mail.

When you go to the supermarket during cold and flu season, carry disinfectant wipes in your purse and wipe down the handle of the shopping cart. This is where most of the germs are. Also carry disinfectant hand lotion and use it after shopping.

 

[ncsteelmagnolia]

We have called our electric comp, and they would be delighted for us to read the meter ourselves - this saves them time & money. We have been doing this for about 6 months and it is working for all of us. We are not easy to get to; they won't be mistaken for trespassers and they won't be stomping all over my berry bushes!

 

[AnnCats]

Don't forget shoes

In addition to stripping, consider having outside and inside shoes. The shoes that are worn outside, like to work, stay OUTSIDE. Sit on a bench and change before you come in, just to make sure you don't carry anything in. Also, if you carry a purse or backpack and you won't need to get into it in the evening, consider leaving it out in the car.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about the flu and the fact that I can't not go to work (public library) and currently have family members living with me that are employed at public places also (Walmart and a bank).

I remember when my son worked at a vet hospital he would come home and immediately walk to the laundry room and throw his scrubs in the wash. He did that to make sure none of our animals picked up some of the contagious diseases he was exposed to throughout the day.

That is going to be SOP now at my house - immediately change clothes and put the ones from work in the laundry. I'm hoping that will cut down some on gerns spread to the rest of the family.

 

[duchess47]

In addition to stripping, consider having outside and inside shoes. The shoes that are worn outside, like to work, stay OUTSIDE. Sit on a bench and change before you come in, just to make sure you don't carry anything in. Also, if you carry a purse or backpack and you won't need to get into it in the evening, consider leaving it out in the car.

That's a good reminder. Shoes come off at the front door at my house, but they are then put up there in the entry or the closets. Outside on the front porch would be better. And my bag can always stay in the car.

 

[Kimber]

If a pandemic hits, and you see someone, they are too close.

Plan for total isolation. At a minimum, 6 months' worth of preps.

If you must go outside and can't work from home via the internet, I'm currently banking on the following filter.

http://www.2hdistributors.com/

Do they work? I don't know. But, it is something thrown into my kit.

David

 

[BarkingDog]

Looks interesting Kimber, but they don't reveal how or why.

Remember that your eyes are a permiable barrier. Wear some type of eye protection, perhaps swim goggles, something with an airtight seal.

SlateWiper appears to be just over the horizon. God help us all.

 

[Onebyone]

For those planning to leave shoes outside remember spiders especially black widows will like to be in those shoes very much so you better shine a flash light in them before you put them on. Also snakes for larger shoes like boots and dogs will carry them off.

Would be good to make an air tight bin for them to sit in and spray it each evening with Lysol.

Remember most people are going to be taking baths, brushing teeth and drinking tap water and ice. This water gets refiltered many times and I am not so certain it is very clean. If we have a large population sick with bird flu then there is going to be alot of vomit and waste material in the water going down the pipes to get reused after "cleaning". My choice is have distilled water at least to drink and otherwise boil all water for all uses except toilet.

 

[Gizmom]

Lysol spray everything ???

My mom swears by Lysol. She works in a customer service call center. There is lots of "sharing" of telephones. All it takes is for one person in the unit to get sick, and everyone eventually comes down with it. Mom sprays her telephone handset with Lysol when she gets to work every morning and repeats a couple of times throughout the day.

She hasn't had a sick day in several years.

 

[horse and hammer]

I have read more than once on how some are planning on wiping off, cleaning the shopping cart handle, why bother you should be wearing gloves. What I would be concerned with is the fact that all of the products on the shelves have been breathed, coughed, sneezed on. What are you going to do with the products that quite possibly have been contanimated? Just like the mail. How about the pretty meat packaged by the butcher who could be infected.

Not only your shoes which sould be not brought inside your house, good idea, you should also strip off your clothing before entering and immediately put them in the washer and washing them with 160 degree water and bleach.

How it is done in a hospital. If there is a sterile area like a sterile instrument tray in a surgical suite and I need to fill a sterile cup on that tray, I, a non sterile circulation nurse with a clean hand grab a clean bottle of sterile water and pour it in the cup without touching the cup. In other words, the inside is sterile while the outside is not. The sterile must be separate from the clean and separate from the dirty. This is a constant thing.

Long story short, how are you going to gety the clean food out of the possibly infected dirty food container that you purchased from the store? Bring the dirty container into your hopefully clean kitchen? Coulld you open the container outside the clean area and pour the sterile food into a sterile container which is held by a clean, sterile hand? Bring in the dirty products into your kitchen and put them on a counter, open them, put them in sterile containers and then throw away the dirty original container and reclean the counter?

This is alot to think about and even more to do, but it can be done with a bit of knowledge and common sense.


B

 

[Vere My Sone]

yep,
I get stale bread from the pepridge farm lady
Last winter, she said she had the flu one day when I picked up the bread,
She was really sick and very symptomatic and I said "and you touched" and she said "yep, every package"

 

[kelee877]

So many variables...

I would say deepending on when the avian flu hits..would be a timing event..if we are hit during the winter, it will be harder to keep the shoes and boots outside..cold enough here they would freeze and you would still have to bring indoors to thaw and be able to put your feet back into them.

Shopping in a pandemic yes would be major cause for concern..I am going try to purchase enough for about 6 months while there is no threat of the disease..hard to do on such a tight budget..but at least with most of us in here we have started preps years ago...

This avain flu has presented us all with a new plan or strategy in our preps department...alot of our preps plans did not include complete shut-down and did not include a transferable disease...
Our preperations have revovled around nuclear bombs,peak oil..and such
Nuclear Bomb..specific targeted area
Peak Oil..slow decline of natural resources

WE have just begun in the last few months talking about Wordwide...Pandemic..and some of the MSM are suggesting weeks before this hits(scarey stuffs)

The best we can do for ourselves is to follow the MSM and see where and when all of this is hitting..and keep putting forward helpfull suggestions to one another to get past all of this..

The main threat of this avain flu right now is Fear...
If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail..

Plans and preps..for this newest experience... If we all contribute to this thread what our thoughts and feelings are about this looming threat..it would be a great relief to us that the feeling is mutual...

I for one am very concerned, because there is so much in the works from the government to prepare for the pandemic, but still so much behind closed doors that we do not know about..
since Katrina and Rita the proof of government assistance in an emergency is completely lacking..we would be on our own..

Plans for beefing up my preps include..as much canned foods as I can get stored(already have alot of rice, flour and pasta) and also spices, sauces.
I guess the normal things that we would get, but have to detail plan, now that we have an outline of what might happen..

I had planned on going to the lake that is only a 3 minute walk from my house to get water if need be, but I will have to re-think that one.
Also, wild game would have to be closely monitored.
and I was going to be using braches and wood from the locale forest area to heat the house..
So hopefully I will have the time to re-think these preps and get new idea,s into the picture..

 

[kelee877]

I have just started reading this but I figured I would bring it over and post it for all to read..first part is so far so good:


http://www.psandman.com/col/teachable.htm

 

[AKau]

I have just started reading this but I figured I would bring it over and post it for all to read..first part is so far so good:


http://www.psandman.com/col/teachable.htm

Every one PLEASE go read the link posted by kelee877.

Then re-read the last three sentences:

An adjustment reaction is a big improvement over being caught unawares. Don’t try to tell people not to have one. Help them have a good one.


GREAT catch k

- Greybear

-- Got Perspective ?