How long does butter, cheese, etc. last w/o refrigeration? (And other items, too)
- Thread starter Seabird
- Start date
Michiana MaJo
Deceased
Hole in the ground
I'm in my 70's, and as a young girl, we lived in Northern Minnesota, where there was still no elecricity.
We had a hole in the ground, on the north side of our house (as I recall, it was probably about 2 ft. deep). which we used to keep things cooler, at least in the warmer months, when there was no snow. I think the climate was cooler, back in those days, from what I now read about Minnesota's temperatures.
Not being milk drinkers, I don't suppose we kept much milk around, but did use butter. I can't recall what else Mom might have kept in the hole in the ground. I don't recall ever having meat, as a child....that may have been one reason. Another was that I grew up in the WW2 era, when it was scarce. Not being used to it, it wasn't missed. Mom had a large veggie garden, and we had plenty to eat.
I also recall that she would get fresh eggs from the neighbor, and she just kept them out on the cupboard shelf, for some time. Never any problems with them.
We had an indoor hand pump to pump our water, and we would fill a pail with cold water, then put certain things in a jar, such as butter and I don't remember what else, then submerge it in the cold water for cold storage. Seems like Jello was made as an infrequent treat, and stored, that way.
I don't think we had leftovers, in those days, without a way to adequately keep them, safely. I'm sure we ate everything up, at mealtimes!
I'm in my 70's, and as a young girl, we lived in Northern Minnesota, where there was still no elecricity.
We had a hole in the ground, on the north side of our house (as I recall, it was probably about 2 ft. deep). which we used to keep things cooler, at least in the warmer months, when there was no snow. I think the climate was cooler, back in those days, from what I now read about Minnesota's temperatures.
Not being milk drinkers, I don't suppose we kept much milk around, but did use butter. I can't recall what else Mom might have kept in the hole in the ground. I don't recall ever having meat, as a child....that may have been one reason. Another was that I grew up in the WW2 era, when it was scarce. Not being used to it, it wasn't missed. Mom had a large veggie garden, and we had plenty to eat.
I also recall that she would get fresh eggs from the neighbor, and she just kept them out on the cupboard shelf, for some time. Never any problems with them.
We had an indoor hand pump to pump our water, and we would fill a pail with cold water, then put certain things in a jar, such as butter and I don't remember what else, then submerge it in the cold water for cold storage. Seems like Jello was made as an infrequent treat, and stored, that way.
I don't think we had leftovers, in those days, without a way to adequately keep them, safely. I'm sure we ate everything up, at mealtimes!
cin
Inactive
I have an old and covered-over small cupboard that opened from the inside of the kitchen, and was actually to the outside, where they would keep things like milk etc cold in cooler months. (my house was built in 1905)
Also, I had a lot of problems with cheese going bad very quickly even refrigerated. I solved this problem by unwrapping the plastic that the cheese came in, and re-wrapping it with new saran wrap. I think that the plastic they use must come in contact with high levels of bacteria. Just a guess anyway. Also, I noticed that if I keep a brick of cheese in a ziplock back, and leave the bag just slightly open and in the snack drawer of the fridge, it stays fresher longer.
Also, I had a lot of problems with cheese going bad very quickly even refrigerated. I solved this problem by unwrapping the plastic that the cheese came in, and re-wrapping it with new saran wrap. I think that the plastic they use must come in contact with high levels of bacteria. Just a guess anyway. Also, I noticed that if I keep a brick of cheese in a ziplock back, and leave the bag just slightly open and in the snack drawer of the fridge, it stays fresher longer.
rhealady
Inactive
JohnGaltfla said:
ADD TO THIS:
In any power blackout, once the electricity is off, insulate the heck out of your freezers, coolers, and refrigerators.
This means haul out blankets, throw rugs, empty DW fabric closet. Use cushions from the couch. Recognize there will be a loss of coldness as the freezer cold cools down the insulation. But, once cold the temperature will stabilize and very slowly go down.
One year I processed chickens in the SUMMER and it took me days to can all the wings and legs. In spite of the 90 degree heat the 2 large-very large-coolers kept their cool stacked high with blankets and my fabric stash. When I reached in the bottom layer against the cooler was ice cold. I think it took me 4 days to can all that chicken and it stayed amazingly cold in those coolers.
Insulate, Insulate, Insulate. The power goes out and we are going to cover and tie to keep those boxes cold.
As soon as the power is restored remove the insulation or the units will overheat.
Guys... PLEASE be careful about some of the suggestions here. Most are fine.. some, like sealing meat in a mason jar after brushing it with oil and then using dry ice to create the vacuum... scares me to death.
You're courting all sorts of really nasty food poisoning with something like that.
Vinegar MIGHT help prevent botulism if it permeates through all the meat tissues... but I sure wouldn't want to count on it.
Butter and cheese can be stored for a time in cool temps, but not at warm room temps (80 and above) for long before you notice some serious deterioration in quality.
I've waxed large chunks of cheese and wheels of cheese and stored them in the root cellar... and they definitely "age" faster in the summer months- and that cellar never gets above 60 degrees.
The local Amish don't have refrigeration, they know all the "tricks" - and they suffer from a LOT of "stomach flu" in the warm months.
Summerthyme
You're courting all sorts of really nasty food poisoning with something like that.
Vinegar MIGHT help prevent botulism if it permeates through all the meat tissues... but I sure wouldn't want to count on it.
Butter and cheese can be stored for a time in cool temps, but not at warm room temps (80 and above) for long before you notice some serious deterioration in quality.
I've waxed large chunks of cheese and wheels of cheese and stored them in the root cellar... and they definitely "age" faster in the summer months- and that cellar never gets above 60 degrees.
The local Amish don't have refrigeration, they know all the "tricks" - and they suffer from a LOT of "stomach flu" in the warm months.
Summerthyme
summerthyme said:
Thank you, Summerthyme, for your warnings. They are valid.
Hopefully, if there is ever a failure in any of these solutions, the tell-tail signs (odor, discoloration, bacterial growth) will be helpful.
I realize that we will all do our own tried-and-true testing if the time comes for us to be without refrigeration. Hopefully, some of these ideas will help shorten the time to successfully maintaining foods, should the SHTF.
But, like I said, your warnings are valid. And as we check out the solutions mentioned here, those warnings need to be included.
Seabird
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
John H said:LoupGarou,
They sell an inexpensive pitcher to put the Canadian bags of milk in before you cut the corner of the bag off.
No need for a separate container, although a closed pitcher would keep it fresh a bit longer.
John H
Yep, I had one in the cupboard, I just don't drink a lot of milk so it was not out (they are HEAVY coffee drinkers, and demand milk for cereal as well). They did not know about the pitcher issue, they just though that was supposed to be clipped closed, a milk version of a #10 can.
As far as the oil and CO2 trick, it scared me the first time I tried it too. But as long as you can keep the O2 away from it, you are OK. This is what they are doing when they nitrogen pack items, CO2 is just easier to get most of the time since most stores get in dry ice (Kroger's even sells it up front by the pound, for the people that do not want to hit-up the ice cream man for it). The oil keeps the meat moist, seals in the flavor, and keeps it ready to flop on the grill right out I have also done this with cooked meats, dropped hot into the jar with the dry ice, this way all of the bad items have been cooked, and then everything gets deprived of O2. I do this so that I can take it straight from the jar to the microwave (the meat does tend to be lose a bit of flavor though).
Loup Garou
The Mother Earth News looked into egg storage, and the first thing they learned was that they could not find ANYBODY who had ever actually tried any of the storage methods. So they did their own tests from scratch. The bottom line is that two out of three eggs were still good after six months no matter how you store them (without refrigeration) except that unwashed eggs fared noticeably better than washed eggs.
Butter: It's oxygen that makes butter go bad. The butter bell only keeps oxygen out. If you can find any other way to keep out the oxygen it will work as well as a fifty buck butter bell. I use a plastic cup with a tight fitting lid -- it came from the store with mixed fruit in it. I don't use butter very often, so it sometimes doesn't get refilled for a month or so. It tastes exactly as good after a month as when I put it in. Of course, I keep the rest of my butter frozen in the original wrapper until time to refill the cup.
Cheese: The natural food stores carry real cheese untainted by antibiotics. It is always covered with blue mold no matter what they do. Customers just slice the mold off before they serve it.
Butter: It's oxygen that makes butter go bad. The butter bell only keeps oxygen out. If you can find any other way to keep out the oxygen it will work as well as a fifty buck butter bell. I use a plastic cup with a tight fitting lid -- it came from the store with mixed fruit in it. I don't use butter very often, so it sometimes doesn't get refilled for a month or so. It tastes exactly as good after a month as when I put it in. Of course, I keep the rest of my butter frozen in the original wrapper until time to refill the cup.
Cheese: The natural food stores carry real cheese untainted by antibiotics. It is always covered with blue mold no matter what they do. Customers just slice the mold off before they serve it.
SmartAZ said:
Thanks, SmartAz. The third is what my grandmother always did. (I have always had trouble getting past that fuzzy mold to actually eat the cheese. But if there was no choice, I'm sure it would not be as difficult.) The first is interesting. I know that in the stories I've read from the 1700's and 1800's, eggs lasted in a bowl on the pantry shelf throughout the whole winter season. Some had to go bad, as your first point suggests.
I use a butter dish, with the wrap still on the butter inside it, and it stays on the island in my kitchen a long time. I may just do some testing myself on all three. The hard part (for me) will be getting fresh, unwashed eggs.