How long does butter, cheese, etc. last w/o refrigeration? (And other items, too)
- Thread starter Seabird
- Start date
The answer is.....it depends.
Local conditions make a difference. Arizona in July is not the east coast in May. Humidity and ambient temps, plus how it is stored being non-refrigerated.
Here in the northeastern US, butter stays good on the counter for weeks this time of year. In the summer, definitely not as long.
Soups: it depends on the ingredients. Veggie soup with little fat unrefrigerated is bound to last a day or two, whereas chicken soup I'd eat that day.
Do you remember hard boiled eggs and hiding them for at least a week at Easter? I do. I figure if the shell is intact you might take your chances for at least a few days. But then my Spring is cool and I would put them in my coolest, dark place. Fresh eggs, never refrigerated or washed last longest at room temp. I've kept them for weeks that way.
Run a test in your micro-climate yourself. I imagine ingredients stay longer than cooked products in general.
YMMV
Local conditions make a difference. Arizona in July is not the east coast in May. Humidity and ambient temps, plus how it is stored being non-refrigerated.
Here in the northeastern US, butter stays good on the counter for weeks this time of year. In the summer, definitely not as long.
Soups: it depends on the ingredients. Veggie soup with little fat unrefrigerated is bound to last a day or two, whereas chicken soup I'd eat that day.
Do you remember hard boiled eggs and hiding them for at least a week at Easter? I do. I figure if the shell is intact you might take your chances for at least a few days. But then my Spring is cool and I would put them in my coolest, dark place. Fresh eggs, never refrigerated or washed last longest at room temp. I've kept them for weeks that way.
Run a test in your micro-climate yourself. I imagine ingredients stay longer than cooked products in general.
YMMV
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
As far as butter goes, I would check out butter bells, and/or French butter dishes:
http://www.kitchen-classics.com/butterbell.htm
http://www.frenchbutterdish.com/
http://itotd.com/articles/215/
They use water to seal the butter up. Unlimited shelf life (you can do the same by taking the unwrapped butter and placing it in a water filled ziplock bag. Use ONLY salted butter though (with either the dishes or the bag). I have been using this trick for years, and have never had an issue where the butter goes bad.
Cheese can be done similar to this. Cheese (like cheddar) can be placed in a airtight container (zip lock, tupperware, display glass, whatever) and left there indefinitely provided you do one thing, place a sponge of paper towel in the airtight container with the cheese that has a good amount of white vinegar (acetic acid) in it. The fumes from the vinegar will keep the cheese from going bad. The french use this trick to keep the cheese on the counter from going bad. I have gone camping for months and used this trick to keep my large block of cheddar cheese fresh. Three, two pound blocks of cheddar each in it's own 1 gallon zip lock bag will last me a two month excursion, after that they are empty and I am grouchy.
Loup Garou
http://www.kitchen-classics.com/butterbell.htm
http://www.frenchbutterdish.com/
http://itotd.com/articles/215/
They use water to seal the butter up. Unlimited shelf life (you can do the same by taking the unwrapped butter and placing it in a water filled ziplock bag. Use ONLY salted butter though (with either the dishes or the bag). I have been using this trick for years, and have never had an issue where the butter goes bad.
Cheese can be done similar to this. Cheese (like cheddar) can be placed in a airtight container (zip lock, tupperware, display glass, whatever) and left there indefinitely provided you do one thing, place a sponge of paper towel in the airtight container with the cheese that has a good amount of white vinegar (acetic acid) in it. The fumes from the vinegar will keep the cheese from going bad. The french use this trick to keep the cheese on the counter from going bad. I have gone camping for months and used this trick to keep my large block of cheddar cheese fresh. Three, two pound blocks of cheddar each in it's own 1 gallon zip lock bag will last me a two month excursion, after that they are empty and I am grouchy.
Loup Garou
Nuthatch said:
Thanks, Nuthatch. To be honest, it's the Easter eggs that made me ask, though I lived in the North East myself back then, too. Now I am in the South East, sea side, and things are different.
I remember keeping a box of pizza in the oven for days back then. And when I worked in a restaurant, the butter was kept out all of the time so it was soft.
I did not know that fresh eggs were okay as long as they were unrefrigerated or washed.
I've heard (and seen!) that a package of cheese goes moldy, even in the refrigerator, within a couple of weeks or less after it's been opened.
So my question is, is that vinegar necessary for an unopened package of natural (non-processed) cheese? I've heard that mild cheese, in its original package (i.e. unopened), can be aged in the refrigerator for years, as long as it's turned every month or two. [The reason for doing this is that mild cheese is cheaper than sharp, and if you have a bit of money and some refrigerator room, you can make your own aged, sharp cheese.]
So my question is, is that vinegar necessary for an unopened package of natural (non-processed) cheese? I've heard that mild cheese, in its original package (i.e. unopened), can be aged in the refrigerator for years, as long as it's turned every month or two. [The reason for doing this is that mild cheese is cheaper than sharp, and if you have a bit of money and some refrigerator room, you can make your own aged, sharp cheese.]
LoupGarou said:
I remember my grandmother talking about how they kept softer cheeses like Mozzerella fresh w/o refrigeration in Italy, but for the life of me, I can't recall how. Cheddars, and the like, are a harder cheese, and your answer is great. I wonder if it would work with the softer cheeses, as well. I know that the parmesean and romano cheeses stay fresh in sealed shakers for months in a cabinet, and velveeta comes in packs that can remain unrefrigerated until opened. To be able to keep them fresh longer like that would be most helpful. Thanks, Loup.
tangent
Membership Revoked
Have never tried this, but eggs are supposed to last a really long time if soaked in "water glass" (glaubers salt - IIRC). You used to be able to buy it in the canning section of grocery stores, but I haven't seen it recently.
My Grandmother mentioned that trick to me, and I think it's in Carla Emeries book too...
Basically, it's sealing the shell - just like w/ butter in water.
-t
My Grandmother mentioned that trick to me, and I think it's in Carla Emeries book too...
Basically, it's sealing the shell - just like w/ butter in water.
-t
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
jlee said:
I would not want to tempt it. If you want to test the "unopened bag theory" (which should be valid), just leave a small unopened pack of cheese on the counter and see what decides to grow. My guess is that nothing will happen until you open it, but then once you open it, you better have some recloseable pack and vinegar ready.
The vinegar trick also works with meats, but unlike the cheese, the meats can take on a slight vinegar taste from the fumes.
Loup Garou
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
Seabird said:
Mozzerella cheese is kept fresh under brine solution with a little vinegar thrown in. It can be stored that way for a very long time.
Velveeta and American singles usually are so far from real (unprocessed) cheese that they can be left on the counter for weeks and nothing touches them. There is only one thing that I find American cheese good for, grilled cheese sandwhiches. Velveeta stays where it should, on the grocery store shelf. I want real unprocessed cheese.
Loup Garou
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
For meat I have used the following trick:
Brush extra virgin olive oil on the meat (or roll it around in it)
Drop in a 3/4" square (or similar size) piece of dry ice into a mason jar
Wait till almost all of the dry ice has sublimed
Put the meat in the mason jar
Drop in a smaller piece of dry ice on top
Put lid on, but do not screw down
Once dry ice has almost finished subliming, tighten lid
(do not drop in the piece and tighten lid because the pressure will build up and glass hurts) You want a small pressure, not a large one, this is why you wait till almost all of it is "gone".
Dry ice is CO2, and sublimes directly from solid to gas. CO2 gas is heavier than air and fills the jar from the bottom up. The olive oil is just there to keep the meat moist. You might want to also try a little lemon juice and honey along with the olive oil, that way, you can go straight from ball jar to grill.
Loup Garou
Brush extra virgin olive oil on the meat (or roll it around in it)
Drop in a 3/4" square (or similar size) piece of dry ice into a mason jar
Wait till almost all of the dry ice has sublimed
Put the meat in the mason jar
Drop in a smaller piece of dry ice on top
Put lid on, but do not screw down
Once dry ice has almost finished subliming, tighten lid
(do not drop in the piece and tighten lid because the pressure will build up and glass hurts) You want a small pressure, not a large one, this is why you wait till almost all of it is "gone".
Dry ice is CO2, and sublimes directly from solid to gas. CO2 gas is heavier than air and fills the jar from the bottom up. The olive oil is just there to keep the meat moist. You might want to also try a little lemon juice and honey along with the olive oil, that way, you can go straight from ball jar to grill.
Loup Garou
momof23goats
Deceased
can your butter, can your processed cheese, dip our hard cheese in pariffin, at leat 4 times, these tings will have a shlf life of years.
leave yoru eggs unwashed will last a long time on yor counter, longer in your rootcellar. if unwashed farm fresh eggs. store bought eggs this will not work, they have been washed. but some store bought eggs, are old when you get them. keep them in a cool place, bottom of creek in a box, of in the bottom of your well.
leave yoru eggs unwashed will last a long time on yor counter, longer in your rootcellar. if unwashed farm fresh eggs. store bought eggs this will not work, they have been washed. but some store bought eggs, are old when you get them. keep them in a cool place, bottom of creek in a box, of in the bottom of your well.
Airborne Falcon
Resident Ethicist
Excellent thread! Thanks everyone!
Russ
Russ
Walrus Whisperer
Hope in chains...
In a pinch you can do without a butter bell-two bowls, one larger with some water in the botton, one smaller that will fit into the larger upside down. Pack the softened butter into the smaller, put it upside down into the larger and Voila! Instant butter bell. I use both salted and sweet butter in my butter bells-You do have to keep crumbs out or the crumbs will start rotting in the water but I've never had any trouble with either kind other than the crumb thing-they can sit on the counter for a long time.
You can can butter, see the homesteading forum there are several threads about the process.
You can can butter, see the homesteading forum there are several threads about the process.
Preserving tips from the Sarajevo Survival Guide (Survival in a war zone)...
http://www.friends-partners.org/bosnia/suressen.html#11
MEAT, if you have any, should be cut in very thin slices, salted, arranged in a bowl, pressed with some heavy object and covered by oil. Not the smallest piece should be in touch with air. That way it will be preserved longer, especially under your careful control. Better effects are gained if you fry the meat first, and then cover it with hot oil. You take out the portion planned for each meal. Another tip for preserving meat...wash it well, then roll it in a napkin soaked in vinegar--that way it can stay fresh for a few days.
FRESH VEGETABLES [can be had only] from someone's garden, or your flower pots which are by now cleansed of unuseful plants, or a park that's become a source for survival. Vegetables like scallions, lettuce, spinach, cabbage, or anything that looks similar, should be cleaned, washed, and rolled into a wet napkin...to preserve freshness. Carrots and parsley should be cut, salted, and packed tightly into jars...to keep them longer with most of their vitamins retained. You should squeeze all the juices from vegetables like parsley and celery, and then dry them...the way our grandmothers did it many years ago.
http://www.friends-partners.org/bosnia/suressen.html#11
MEAT, if you have any, should be cut in very thin slices, salted, arranged in a bowl, pressed with some heavy object and covered by oil. Not the smallest piece should be in touch with air. That way it will be preserved longer, especially under your careful control. Better effects are gained if you fry the meat first, and then cover it with hot oil. You take out the portion planned for each meal. Another tip for preserving meat...wash it well, then roll it in a napkin soaked in vinegar--that way it can stay fresh for a few days.
FRESH VEGETABLES [can be had only] from someone's garden, or your flower pots which are by now cleansed of unuseful plants, or a park that's become a source for survival. Vegetables like scallions, lettuce, spinach, cabbage, or anything that looks similar, should be cleaned, washed, and rolled into a wet napkin...to preserve freshness. Carrots and parsley should be cut, salted, and packed tightly into jars...to keep them longer with most of their vitamins retained. You should squeeze all the juices from vegetables like parsley and celery, and then dry them...the way our grandmothers did it many years ago.
JohnGaltfla
#NeverTrump
I can only give you the hurricane preppers guide to fridges and shelf life.
1. 72 hours before a storm, take Rubbermaid containers, fill them with water and put them in the freezer to make solid blocks of ice. Turn your freezer and fridge to their maximum coldness.
2. Rotate dairy and meat items to the back of the fridge, drinks and condiments to the front.
3. When the storm approaches, wrap bungee cord around the refridgerator and freezer doors to prevent them from popping open during the storm (in case you suffer roof or window damage).
After the storm:
4. Move one block of ice to the fridge portion every 8-14 hours depending on how fast they are melting. Eat all perishables first. Leave the canned goods for the next week.
5. Open the doors no more that 3-5 times per day. Keep it air tight as mold will be a problem if the humid air seeps inside.
6. Once all pershibles are exhausted, being your dry goods rotation. Conserve fuel when cooking as it could be 4-6 weeks before power is restored in some areas.
There ya gots it. The sniff and appearance tests are good indicators, but I keep a thermometer in my fridge and freezer during a hurricane. Once it cracks 50 plus for sustained periods, if it's not consumed, it's pretty much tossed.
1. 72 hours before a storm, take Rubbermaid containers, fill them with water and put them in the freezer to make solid blocks of ice. Turn your freezer and fridge to their maximum coldness.
2. Rotate dairy and meat items to the back of the fridge, drinks and condiments to the front.
3. When the storm approaches, wrap bungee cord around the refridgerator and freezer doors to prevent them from popping open during the storm (in case you suffer roof or window damage).
After the storm:
4. Move one block of ice to the fridge portion every 8-14 hours depending on how fast they are melting. Eat all perishables first. Leave the canned goods for the next week.
5. Open the doors no more that 3-5 times per day. Keep it air tight as mold will be a problem if the humid air seeps inside.
6. Once all pershibles are exhausted, being your dry goods rotation. Conserve fuel when cooking as it could be 4-6 weeks before power is restored in some areas.
There ya gots it. The sniff and appearance tests are good indicators, but I keep a thermometer in my fridge and freezer during a hurricane. Once it cracks 50 plus for sustained periods, if it's not consumed, it's pretty much tossed.
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
sy32478 said:
I would not go to the extremes as far as fat content (on the fatty side, not the lean side). I have done cooked and uncooked bacon this way. The trick is to get the air out. Once the oxygen is gone, no oxidation can happen, and the food does not go rancid. I've had stuff that is over a year or two old. Food does not usually last long enough to go bad around my house. (A friend of mine told me that Breyers Ice Cream now comes in single serving size, I said "They always have, a half gallon IS a single serving size!").
Try not to slice the meats, since you could cause "pockets" of air to be trapped that might allow for unwanted "growths". Leave it in either chunks, or use a tin can as a "cookie cutter" to cut out meat "cylinders" that fit fairly nice and tight in the jar. I use the same dry ice trick with my 5 gallon paint pails of food (flour, sugar, macaroni, rice, etc...). Again, make sure that almost all of the dry ice has sublimed before fully sealing the lid. 5 gallon paint pail lids come off with a BANG and can go flying. You want just enough pressure to keep the lid bulged up a little bit (so that you know that it has kept it's seal).
Real vacuum packing does the same thing (removes the O2), it just sucks it out. This displaces it. For a good science fair trick, put a lit candle in a large pot, and drop in a good sized piece of dry ice. Watch what happens to the candle as the level of CO2 creeps up. Then without causing the air to stir too much, try to use a Bic lighter to relight it without removing the candle from the pot, or pouring the CO2 out.
Loup Garou
David the Aspie
Resident Aspie
Here in Canada (Quebec), we have a butter than keeps perfectly well without refrigeration without attracting bugs or anything...
I'll try to find out more info about it.
I'll try to find out more info about it.
Olive oil can be used on toast instead of butter. Get a little pump spray bottle.
It can also be used in cooking, Kraft Dinner, etc. instead of butter or margerine. If it says a tablespoon of butter, use a tablespoon of olive oil instead.
I doubt you can tell much difference and it keeps well.
John H
It can also be used in cooking, Kraft Dinner, etc. instead of butter or margerine. If it says a tablespoon of butter, use a tablespoon of olive oil instead.
I doubt you can tell much difference and it keeps well.
John H
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
The Coup Leader said:
You also have milk in sealed plastic bags that do not photodegrade and will keep about 5 times longer than our stupid plastic jugs down here (if left unopened).
The first time my mother saw milk in plastic bags, was up in Canada. She bought some, but did not know, once opened, how to reseal them. For two weeks I saw a bag of milk laying in the fridge with the corner clipped off and a potato chip "bag clip" holding the bag shut. No one told her about pouring the milk into a pitcher...
We also have something like butter that never goes bad and does not attract bugs, it's called margarine, and it is one test tube away from plastic (there is a reason that nothing will touch it, including me).
Loup Garou
Skim milk made from powder lasts for 10-14 days in the fridge, if kept in a plastic container that closes or in glass jars with lids.
But using a closed container and the fact that it doesn't contain much fat, should make it last for a few days as long as it is kept reasonably cool.
But using a closed container and the fact that it doesn't contain much fat, should make it last for a few days as long as it is kept reasonably cool.
tangent
Membership Revoked
On dry ice - you can get an attachment from some scientific supply places for ~$100-$150, then you just need a CO2 tank from a welding or other gas supply place. If you don't want to be prepped for "as needed" dry ice, and are not using a lot - ice cream stores like Baskin & Robins sell it by the pound... THat is fine for prepairing buckets.
basically - as stated - wrap in a paper towel, being careful not to touch it, then place the lid on top of the bucket without sealing it. Wait a couple of hours and seal.
1 Lb is enough for a 5 gal bucket.
-t
basically - as stated - wrap in a paper towel, being careful not to touch it, then place the lid on top of the bucket without sealing it. Wait a couple of hours and seal.
1 Lb is enough for a 5 gal bucket.
-t
Christian for Israel
Knight of Jerusalem
i've heard that store bought eggs can be sealed with parafin wax or even lard as long as they're fresh and they will keep for months. i haven't personally tried this however.
Organic milk lasts FOREVER. I don't waste my money on "regular" milk anymore. It lasts perhaps a week and then yuck. The organic has a 3-4 week shelf life. Have no idea what the diff is and don't care because I personally hate milk. Barbers makes a "Chug" pack that lasts a long time, but not nearly as long as the organic. Our problem is that we don't use much milk. If you go through a gallon a week, then you don't have the same problem I do, but I would rather die than drink milk 
Hate it, hate it, hate it. I have a friend that buys 3-4 gallons at a time and freezes it. Wouldn't waste my freezer space 
Hate it, hate it, hate it. I have a friend that buys 3-4 gallons at a time and freezes it. Wouldn't waste my freezer space We don't drink much milk. To keep it on hand without continuously throwing it out, I buy the Parmalat shelf-stable milk by the quart. Dated for months down the road--sometimes 6 months+. These stay good if stored well for several months past their 'use by' date. They sell for under $1.50 at the local WalMart and for $2.50 at the local Kroger's. Mail order you will pay about $3.
Once opened, they go in the fridge.
Once opened, they go in the fridge.
tosca
Inactive
Remember you can salt your blocks of cheese
ahead of time; remove the wrapping from a two pound block of medium cheddar. Place it in a dish on the counter. Cover it with course salt and rub it into each side and end. Keep this up for 2-3 days; each time you pass rub the salt in again. This produces a film over the cheese; a natural barrier. Like a rind. Place rinded cheese in a cheese cloth bag and hang it in a cool place...I have used cheese like this up to the three year mark.
I kept eggs on the boat by using vasoline rubbed fresh unwashed eggs. Put them in a cool place packed in boxes of sawdust. Good to so!
ahead of time; remove the wrapping from a two pound block of medium cheddar. Place it in a dish on the counter. Cover it with course salt and rub it into each side and end. Keep this up for 2-3 days; each time you pass rub the salt in again. This produces a film over the cheese; a natural barrier. Like a rind. Place rinded cheese in a cheese cloth bag and hang it in a cool place...I have used cheese like this up to the three year mark.
I kept eggs on the boat by using vasoline rubbed fresh unwashed eggs. Put them in a cool place packed in boxes of sawdust. Good to so!
optimistic pessimist
Veteran Member
We leave our butter out all the time in a butter dish-- haven't gotten sick yet. The only problem with doing this is during the summer if it gets too warm in the house. Then the stuff will get messy. Otherwise, at room temp it just stays soft.
optimistic pessimist
Veteran Member
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optimistic pessimist
Veteran Member
Hard boiled eggs can be pickled and canned for use in salads later.. Butter can be frozen while you do have freezer space.
optimistic pessimist
Veteran Member
Here is from the Russian book:
To Store Eggs (Sberezhenie jajts)
"Rub very fresh eggs with any kind of butter or fat and arrange them in rows with the pointed end downward in a box with oats. Stand them upright with a space between each egg and cover with enough oats to prevent one egg from touching another. Cover each layer of eggs with a layer of oats 2 vershok thick. The top layer of oats must be twice as thick.
After filling a box to the top of eggs in this manner, nail the box tightly closed and store in a dry, cold place.
Eggs are also stored well in well-dried salt, in oak ashes, and in sand that has been dried out in the oven, standing the eggs in rows with all the noses (nosik) pointing downward." pg. 490 Elena Molokhovets' A Gift to Young Housewives
To Store Eggs (Sberezhenie jajts)
"Rub very fresh eggs with any kind of butter or fat and arrange them in rows with the pointed end downward in a box with oats. Stand them upright with a space between each egg and cover with enough oats to prevent one egg from touching another. Cover each layer of eggs with a layer of oats 2 vershok thick. The top layer of oats must be twice as thick.
After filling a box to the top of eggs in this manner, nail the box tightly closed and store in a dry, cold place.
Eggs are also stored well in well-dried salt, in oak ashes, and in sand that has been dried out in the oven, standing the eggs in rows with all the noses (nosik) pointing downward." pg. 490 Elena Molokhovets' A Gift to Young Housewives
Probably a silly question, but.....
...can one actually 'dry' eggs at home? Or create sort of a.....'egg leather'?
Also, does anyone have any ideas on a good 'in-earth cooler'? I was thinking about digging a hole now(on this side of trouble), and experimenting with a 5gallon plastic bucket at different depths. Would this even work??
cryhavoc
...can one actually 'dry' eggs at home? Or create sort of a.....'egg leather'?
Also, does anyone have any ideas on a good 'in-earth cooler'? I was thinking about digging a hole now(on this side of trouble), and experimenting with a 5gallon plastic bucket at different depths. Would this even work??
cryhavoc
hitssquad
Inactive
In southern Oregon, I think, the ground 6 feet down should be a stable ~55F, or maybe a little higher. The person who writes the books about building your own $50 in-ground house uses an earth cooler for a fridge. He uses a hole dug into the floor of the house. I'll see if I can find a link.
hitssquad
Inactive
Here is the author's website:
http://www.undergroundhousing.com
I have not yet found where he talks about his dirt-hole fridge.
http://www.undergroundhousing.com
I have not yet found where he talks about his dirt-hole fridge.
hitssquad
Inactive
Here is a discussion of off-grid non-electric refrigeration:
http://countryconceptsllc.com/forum...previous&sid=76c0f358789ba15c11eb8c379f5a14a1
http://countryconceptsllc.com/forum...previous&sid=76c0f358789ba15c11eb8c379f5a14a1