How can you fight pneumonia especially when part of Avian flu?

[Anne in TN]

I don't have it right now but I feel like I am very susceptible to Pneumonia. I had it once, and for years after that, I was allergic to all sorts of things. I took allergy shots for a while. When I was around mildew, I was not able to hardly breathe at all! At times I felt as though a heavy weight was pressing down on my chest. Every breath I took was laborious. Whenever we bake bread now, I have trouble breathing the odors and have to open windows and turn on fans. Also, my lungs feel like they are slightly burning all the time.

Somewhere along the line, I found out that my lungs have scar tissue in them from the pneumonia I had. I don't know how much scar tissue is there and I wonder if I should find out. I also wonder if my lungs have become compromised because of my previous bout with pneumonia thus making me more susceptible to catching pneumonia again.

Since reading about the Avian flu and its symptoms, I have learned that once someone catches the illness, they can quickly succumb to pneumonia and die. This knowledge had really opened my eyes and is the reason I have obtained the impetus to learn all I can to prevent that from happening to me!

For starters, I have purchased various medicines to fight the Avian flu and even have Amoxicillin on hand. The only thing I do not understand is that I think pneumonia is caused by a bacterium but Avian flu is caused by a virus. The Amoxicillin only kills bacteria. How then can it kill a pneumonia caused by a viral flu? Is the pneumonia just a secondary illness to the viral flu because the immune system is weakened from the virus? Or, is there such a thing as a viral pneumonia that cannot be cured with antibiotics?

Several times when I have gone for flu shots, I also got a pneumonia shot. I don't remember how long they were supposed to be good for and wonder if I can get another one this year even though it may be too soon to need it. Does anyone know just how much protection you get from those pneumonia shots? Also, how often can you take them?

I smoked for ten years between age 17 and 27. I think I heard that even though I have not smoked for over 30 years, I am still more susceptible to lung problems than I otherwise might have been.

When I was younger and thinner, I had lots of stamina for running and participating in physical activity. Now I have gained weight and am out of breath most all the time. I wonder if somehow I could lose that weight if it would be easier to breathe and if that could help me stave off pneumonia better.

I think I would like to know what your experiences have been with pneumonia and what information you have that could help me and maybe some other folks here battle it more efficiently.

I want to win this battle!

 

[John H]

There are both viral and bacterial pneumonias.

There is a vaccine for many of the viral pneumonias. Ask your doc if you can get the shot, in view of your past bout of pneumonia, the scar tissue and your concerns. It's normally given only to the very young, those over 65 and those with medical conditions. The vaccine lasts for about 10 years.

There is info on the CDC site about the vaccine.

Both my wife and I have had the vaccine about 9 years ago. FWIW, she noticed a big drop in the number of times she got bronchitis after that. Not sure why.

Bacterial pneumonias are treated by antibiotics, but some types are becoming resistant to them.

John H

 

[dissimulo]

Pneumonia is a condition that can result from a number of different sources. Pneumonia can be caused by both bacteria and viruses. You can get vaccinations for some of the viruses that cause pneumonia. Bacterial pneumonia generally responds to antibiotic treatment.

Excess weight is often associated with asthma, which could contribute to your breathing problems. Lungs are actually somewhat forgiving of the abuse we do to them. Even if you smoked for a long time, you can recover quite a bit of lung capacity. I smoked for ten years and I run and do open water swimming today.

If you exercise, you'll probably find that your breathing improves. Starting is the hard part, particularly if you smoked.

(Of course, with your lung damage, you might want to run any big changes in behavior by your doctor first.)

 

[hummer]

Hi Anne. By all means, go get another pneumonia shot. I had my first one about 14 years ago. Up to that time I had pneumonia and bronchitis on a regular basis....p=6 times b-yearly. Last winter I became quite sick again with pneumonia. Doc gave me another shot 2 weeks ago. I am trying to do everything I can do to boost my immune system. My doc also told me to wait until early November before I get my flu shot....said benefits would last longer into late winter/early spring. We are also working hard to keep asthma and allergies under control......she said that "it will possibly be a very nasty winter and spring"....pause....."and by the way, do you have any extra meds at home in case you need to be there for awhile this winter"????????? made my eyes open wide.

 

[Deb Mc]

Anne,

I'm not a medical expert, but here's what I've learned so far about Avian Flu and "pneumonia".

With the Avian Flu, it causes your body's immune system (like Asthma) to start attacking your organs, in this case your lungs.

The part of the immune system in question are called "Cytokines". The cytokines that are dangerous in Avian Flu, as well as Asthma, and some other disorders, are: TNF-a (Tissue Necrosis Factor alpha), IL-1 (Interlukin 1), IL-6 (Interlukin 6), and IL-8 (Interlukin 8). There are others involved, but these four are the "big boys", with TNF-a being the heavy hitter of the bunch.

If I read the info correctly (and the studies were done correctly), it looks as though those four cytokines cause inflammation in your organs, trying to kill off the invaders.

In the case of Asthma, it looks as though those cytokines are hyper-responsive and over-react to *anything* that gets into your lungs.

In the case of Avian Flu, these cytokines know that there's an invader in your lungs (the H5N1 virus), but since it's so new, your cytokines don't know what to do. In the end, your cytokines go crazy and start attacking your body's tissues and organs.

Avian Flu may cause a "sort" of pneumonia, but basically what it is doing is attacking your lungs and organs. People who have died have found their lungs filled with fluid and blood.

Doctors over in Asia are saying that the primary way to beat the Avian Flu is to *reduce the viral load* - meaning keep the virus count low in your body. This means using anti-virals as soon as you start to show symptoms.

Also, there may be some means of helping to keep your cytokines from attacking your organs. Talk to your doctor about that, it might help too.

Again though, according to the study of Hong Kong's 1997 Avian Flu outbreak, the only way to treat the Bird Flu and live was to reduce the viral load as soon as possible.

Fwiw...

 

[Deb Mc]

P.S. Yes, pneumonia can be caused by a virus, and yes, Avian Flu (Bird Flu/H5N1) is a virus too.


The problem with the Avian Flu is that the deaths mainly seem to be caused by an over-active immune system. This over-active immune system is what attacks the body's organs and causes organ failure.

 

[Sidetracker]

Thanks

Deb and others

Thanks for the information.

 

[ferret]

I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one, but I have had pneumonia and asthma. If you haven't been diagnosed as having asthma, get an OTC inhaler. There is some great information at http://www.medicinenet.com/asthma_over_the_counter_treatment/page2.htm

I might even consider getting injectable epinephrine as an emergency backup. It's good to have anyway because you might have an allergic reaction to something. I get it for my ferrets online.

 

[cheesesteaks]

Is there any chance interferon would help fight it? I have to take it for ms(rebif) and it does work good for that.


interferon
ABBR: IFN. Any of a group of glycoproteins with antiviral activity. The antiviral type I interferons (alpha and beta interferons) are produced by leukocytes and fibroblasts in response to invasion by a pathogen, particularly a virus. These interferons enable invaded cells to produce class I major histocompatibility complex surface antigens, increasing their ability to be recognized and killed by T lymphocytes. They also inhibit virus production within infected cells. Type I alpha interferon is used to treat condyloma acuminata, chronic hepatitis B and C, and Kaposi's sarcoma. Type I beta interferon is used to treat multiple sclerosis. Type II gamma interferon is distinctly different from and less antiviral than the other interferons. It is a lymphokine, excreted primarily by CD8+ T cells and the helper T subset of CD4+ cells that stimulates several types of antigen-presenting cells, particularly macrophages, to release class II MHC antigens that enhance CD4+ activity. It is used to treat chronic granulomatous disease. SEE: cell, antigen-presenting; macrophage.
"Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary," Copyright © 2005 by F. A. Davis Co., Phil., PA

 

[It'sJustMe]

Doctors over in Asia are saying that the primary way to beat the Avian Flu is to *reduce the viral load* - meaning keep the virus count low in your body. This means using anti-virals as soon as you start to show symptoms.

Also, there may be some means of helping to keep your cytokines from attacking your organs. Talk to your doctor about that, it might help too.

Again though, according to the study of Hong Kong's 1997 Avian Flu outbreak, the only way to treat the Bird Flu and live was to reduce the viral load as soon as possible.

Fwiw...

Thanks Deb for breaking the technical stuff down, in order that many of us might better understand. So far, does anyone know which of the anti-virals might be effective for the Avian Flu, once it arrives here, in it's then current form? It's Just Me

 

[daisy]

Does anyone know just how much protection you get from those pneumonia shots?

Anne my mom got the pneumonia vaccines (2 different ones/kinds) and her doctor told her she would need to get one every 5 years. She's had bypass surgery and is diabetic and that is why he recommended it.

 

[lynnie]

Anne, apart from this flu, you really need an asthma specialist. Advair inhalers might help you enormously. Please pull out the yellow pages and find one. They can also do professional allergy testing and figure out what your " triggers" are. You might have allergies you are not even aware of.

 

[Anne in TN]

lynnie,

Referencing you suggestion that I ought to see an asthma specialist, I think I am beginning to realize that I need a specialist of some sort! I don't know why but I have suffered with lung problems that have progressively gotten worse but I never even thought to tell a doctor. I just thought it was because once upon a time I had pneumonia. It has been 21 years since that pneumonia happened! What an idiot I have been not to have seen a doctor about it after those first few years! I may have been suffering needlessly!

Thanks lynnie, and others for your info and advice. I will indeed follow through with getting help for my problem! Until then, I am going to work harder on thinning down!

 

[Deb Mc]

Sidetracker & ItsJustMe,

You're welcome!

Here's a link that might help with some of your questions.

A reminder though:

1. I am NOT a medical practitioner, this info is just my personal opinion. I am not and can not give medical advice.

2. Some of the info given may have side effects (illness or death) with certain kinds of medical conditions or medications you might take. Please do further research and talk with your doctor or medical practitioner BEFORE you take the meds.

3. There's no guaranteeing that any of these alternative meds will work with the Avian Flu. However, if you follow the links (at the link given below), these alternatives do show some promise. There's no dosages given though, so it's up to you to decide how much, how often.


http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=169999

 

[Peachy2K]

I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one, but I have had pneumonia and asthma. If you haven't been diagnosed as having asthma, get an OTC inhaler. There is some great information at http://www.medicinenet.com/asthma_over_the_counter_treatment/page2.htm

I might even consider getting injectable epinephrine as an emergency backup. It's good to have anyway because you might have an allergic reaction to something. I get it for my ferrets online.

A steroidal inhaler would likely have better effect as far as the immune effect in the lungs - the OTC variant would help minimally with swelling and not nec slow the immune response (but any help is good). At the end of the day it will be anti virals and herbal remedies that fight virals. And a good defense is also in order - i.e. wearing masks and gloves at all times will almost surely be the order of the day. Stock up on those now, IMO, along with the anti-virals. I am not sure that the elderberries will work for this flu as far as herbs.