CORONA Holy Cow! Judge calls out Hobby Lobby on TV

mourningdove

Pura Vida in my garden
Judge Jenkins from Dallas County just called out Hobby Lobby for staying open and putting profits over people. This was during today’s coronavirus update. I have never heard anything like this.
 

mourningdove

Pura Vida in my garden
I am wondering how this will go down. Recently the Hobby Lobby owner justified keeping his stores open because his wife heard from God that all would be ok. Not an exact rendering of what he said but close. Anyway, will this turn in to a religious freedom thing? Governor Abbott has tried hard to keep churches open by listing them as essential but encouraging finding other ways to worship and fellowship without crowding int a church.
 

minkykat

Komplainy Kat
Local Hallmark refuses to close. They're having customers call in orders and the staff runs it to your car.

Yeah, a card shop. The owner refuses to lose a sale no matter what!
 

Blacknarwhal

TB Fanatic
I am wondering how this will go down. Recently the Hobby Lobby owner justified keeping his stores open because his wife heard from God that all would be ok. Not an exact rendering of what he said but close. Anyway, will this turn in to a religious freedom thing? Governor Abbott has tried hard to keep churches open by listing them as essential but encouraging finding other ways to worship and fellowship without crowding int a church.
Lot of companies going to get religion real quick if that works.
 

MountainBiker

Veteran Member
Hobby Lobby supplies things that will keep people occupied at home while isolating and practicing social distancing. That business should be encouraged and supported.
On that basis every business could claim a need to stay open. They all serve people one way or another. Hobby Lobby got greedy is all and their religion does not give them a pass.
 

Mark Armstrong

Veteran Member
On that basis every business could claim a need to stay open. They all serve people one way or another. Hobby Lobby got greedy is all and their religion does not give them a pass.
When I go to Walmart, other customers are not buying just food or meds. I see plenty of carts filled with toys and other things I would consider non-essentials. Who's to say what is essential and what is not?
 

thompson

Unrepentant WrongThinker

Hobby Lobby, Michaels and Joann argue they’re ‘essential,’ but Clay Jenkins is forcing them to close

Dallas County Judge says the stores are ‘putting profits over public health.’

By Maria Halkias and Sam Blum
8:38 PM on Apr 2, 2020

Arts and craft retailers Hobby Lobby, Joann Stores and Michaels have continued to operate, independently deciding that they are essential businesses in Texas and other states even as local governments are enforcing stay-at-home and shelter-in-place rules.

Asked on Thursday whether he plans to force Hobby Lobby to shut down, Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins said, “We’re doing it. Yes, we are. Today. Tonight. As we speak.”

Jenkins said his staff communicates with public officials in other states and discovered that “this was a bigger problem than just Dallas.” Other officials shared the cease-and-desist orders they had issued to Hobby Lobby stores.

“I just want to make it clear to Hobby Lobby and anybody who is foolish enough to follow in their footsteps, that in Dallas County, the government — and 99.9% of the business community — puts public health over profits,” he said.

He advised anyone still working at Hobby Lobby to “go ahead and lock up and leave as soon as possible.”

Jenkins also said Thursday that smoke shops are abusing the rules, and he issued a Tweet asking the public to report violators.

Oklahoma-based Hobby Lobby hasn’t responded to a request for comment. The chain particularly attracted attention as police forced the closings of stores in Indiana and Wisconsin, according to published reports. Hobby Lobby’s store in North Dallas told customers on Wednesday that it was open because it sells supplies to make masks.

Arts and craft stores aren’t deemed essential businesses under the Critical Infrastructure Security Act, Jenkins said, and by remaining open, those stores "are in violation of my order, and come Friday at midnight, Gov. Abbott’s order,” Jenkins said.
He noted that it’s not just a $1,000-a-day fine, it’s punishable by six months in jail.

“We’ll look at your various certificates from the cities and counties on your businesses if you are going to put your profit over the safety of people,” Jenkins said.

Ohio-based Joann Stores’ location on East Mockingbird in Dallas was open Thursday. The retailer hasn’t responded to a request for comment but said in a notice to customers on its door that it was staying open to provide “desperately needed raw materials to make personal protective equipment."

The rules may not have been specific enough to allow for clear-cut conclusions about what businesses are essential during the coronavirus pandemic. A common response from arts and craft retailers is that their customers are making PPE, including masks, and that the stores sell the fabric, lining and elastic for those supplies.

Automatic door slides open at the Joann Store in East Dallas on Mockingbird Lane.


Automatic door slides open at the Joann Store in East Dallas on Mockingbird Lane.(Maria Halkias)

Joann Stores, Hobby Lobby and Michaels stores have continued to operate during the coronavirus pandemic as other businesses have been forced to close.


Joann Stores, Hobby Lobby and Michaels stores have continued to operate during the coronavirus pandemic as other businesses have been forced to close.(Maria Halkias)

“Michaels is providing makers nationwide with access to supplies and instructions so they can help create face masks and face shields,” said Mallory Smith, a spokeswoman for Irving-based Michaels, in an emailed response. She also mentioned that teachers, parents and small businesses rely on Michaels and its products “to enable creative learning."

Additional confusion has come from different rules within the Dallas-Fort Worth market, which overlaps several counties.

On Thursday, Michaels stores in Dallas County were closed and asked customers in emails and on its website to shop online to have orders delivered to their homes. In adjacent Collin County, Michaels stores in Plano and Allen were open — and are a 10- to 15-minute drive away for people living in Richardson or North Dallas.

That matched up with new data released Thursday suggesting that cooped-up parents are buying arts and crafts, toys and books. Households with children are turning to board games, activity books and drawing supplies, according to results released Thursday by NPD Group.

Toy sales increased 26% in the week that ended March 21, with games and puzzles up 228%, NPD said. Building sets are up 76%, and arts and crafts are up 70%.

Books are up 66%, and much of that is sales of kids’ nonfiction focused on education and activities including language arts and handwriting, up 265%. “School at home combined with a higher demand for fun in-house activities have lifted educational and activity book sales,” said Kristen McLean, NPD’s book industry analyst.

Chalk sales are up 56%. Color markers are up 81%, and all kinds of paint supplies are up, including finger paints, up 313%.
 

end game

Veteran Member
Channel 11 news in DFW just covered this. News stated they are using volunteer attorneys to draft cease and desist orders as well as encouraging the fine citizens of dallas (Москвá ) to report by calling 311 or reporting offenders on a website.

DCSO showed up and tossed all the customers out of the store and ordered it closed putting up a cdo on the front door.
 
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MountainBiker

Veteran Member
When I go to Walmart, other customers are not buying just food or meds. I see plenty of carts filled with toys and other things I would consider non-essentials. Who's to say what is essential and what is not?
In my State (Vermont), Walmart and any others like them have been ordered to cease sales of regular merchandise. The stores can stay open to sell food and pharmacy items, but nothing else. Hobby Lobby does not sell groceries.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Hobby Lobby supplies things that will keep people occupied at home while isolating and practicing social distancing. That business should be encouraged and supported.
They can do it via mail order, nearly everyone else is - they are NOT a vital service like food production or even electrical pole lineman, and I say this as a crafter and former professional weaver.

There are still plenty of craft supply shops, yarn stores, leatherworking supplies and related companies selling on-line.

There are also plenty of things most people can do with things they have lying around; there's a fad right now among my friends to learn finger weaving which takes a string (any string including kitchen twine) and costs basically nothing.

Is a new pincushion kit or plastic pom-pom maker worth dying form (or killing someone?)....not to mention the poor staff that has to keep going to work, are they wearing full PPE - masks, gloves, and goggles?

If not, is the boss going to pay all potential medical, funeral and even child-support/life insurance for their children if they catch this at work and become sick or die?

Is that a worker's compensation claim or "god's" (little g intended) problem?
 

naegling62

Veteran Member
In order for any kind of shut down to work it must be a real shut down, Wuhan style. It is a joke from what I've seen in Huntsville Alabama. The mayor and the governor are a joke. Lowe's has more customers than in normal times. Social distancing in a business that is at capacity on parking? Sure thing bud.

I have to be out and about relating to some book work for the company, but I've seen some sections of town teaming with people. Now in the older neighborhoods they are taking it very serious, but the young ones? Ha!
 

NCGirl

Veteran Member
Hobby Lobby essential?
What about landscape supplies? In NC, yes. What about golf courses? Uh huh...

My neighbor is a golf pro. I saw him out and asked if he was getting bored sitting at home. He told me golf courses were considering essential and he was the busiest he had been in years.

In NC, the shutdown is a joke
 

JasmineAndLace

Contributing Member
I would really be upset with some politician or government entity attempting to dictate what is "essential" and what isn't. Many people who have worked and been busy for their entire lives find it very difficult to just sit at home doing nothing. Maybe they need a sewing project or jigsaw puzzle to work on to maintain their mental health and keep from going crazy. To "outlaw" these types of purchases and activities would border on dictatorship and I don't think any of us could live with that.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Maybe they need to try actually staying home for two weeks and see if a breather will work?

I said at the start of this massive thread that most Americans alive today, except those old enough to remember Polio as teenagers or adults have NO IDEA the massive powers the US Cities, States and Federal Government have under the old quarantine statutes that go back to the 19th century.

Back then people hated it too but could see people dying outside their doorsteps so they knew to stay in.

It is to prevent that sort of outcome that this is being tried, my understanding is in a really-really-really horrific situation (like a slate-wiper that crawls out of a lab like The Stand) nuking entire cities (or otherwise sterilizing them) is not out of the question either.
 

Mark Armstrong

Veteran Member
They can do it via mail order, nearly everyone else is - they are NOT a vital service like food production or even electrical pole lineman, and I say this as a crafter and former professional weaver.

There are still plenty of craft supply shops, yarn stores, leatherworking supplies and related companies selling on-line.

There are also plenty of things most people can do with things they have lying around; there's a fad right now among my friends to learn finger weaving which takes a string (any string including kitchen twine) and costs basically nothing.

Is a new pincushion kit or plastic pom-pom maker worth dying form (or killing someone?)....not to mention the poor staff that has to keep going to work, are they wearing full PPE - masks, gloves, and goggles?

If not, is the boss going to pay all potential medical, funeral and even child-support/life insurance for their children if they catch this at work and become sick or die?

Is that a worker's compensation claim or "god's" (little g intended) problem?
I'm hoping to do some comic book art while I have this rare chance, while on leave from my regular, normal, 7:30-4:30 job, and Hobby Lobby is my go-to place for art supplies.

Online ordering has not been an option for me as I have never ordered online, have never put my credit card number or other sensitive personal identifying information into any computer connected to the internet, with the exception of the secure government computers at work (and even then with government encryption). I really don't want to start putting my identity and finances at risk.

Meanwhile, the city where the nearby Hobby Lobby is located is issuing a Stay At Home order effective Monday morning, so the choice has already been made by others who get to decide what is essential. Hope what supplies I already have on hand will be sufficient for the duration.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I hope your supplies last too, but I think most of us can live for a few weeks by making do; trying to stop an epidemic disease by social isolation (or whatever you want to call it) ONLY works if people ACTUALLY isolate.

Again, the staff is also an issue here, and as someone who once worked in Worker's Compensation Claims, there would be a strong argument that could be made for each and every worker that becomes ill after being forced to work under these circumstances of being able to "go after" Hobby Lobby and their Insurance company for full medical coverage and even full death and pension benefits for survivors if they are under strong suggestion to close and refuse to do so.

It would be a long fight, arguing did they or did they not get sick at work; but if proper PPE was not provided and store video showed that 6 feet apart was not maintained at ALL times (yeah right in retail) then they workers would have a very good case.

Now, think about all the doctors that actually need that PPE to do THEIR jobs and who has a higher priority in a crisis?

Nightwolf really needs a wheel for his wheelbarrow too but he can't get one, so we are improvising with garbage bins for a couple of weeks (or longer if need be).

Things are going to get really grim if this goes on too long and the supply chains totally break down, as I mentioned in the other thread - fresh milk is no longer in any shop here in our area of rural Ireland, that's just the start...
 

MountainBiker

Veteran Member
I'm hoping to do some comic book art while I have this rare chance, while on leave from my regular, normal, 7:30-4:30 job, and Hobby Lobby is my go-to place for art supplies.

Online ordering has not been an option for me as I have never ordered online, have never put my credit card number or other sensitive personal identifying information into any computer connected to the internet, with the exception of the secure government computers at work (and even then with government encryption). I really don't want to start putting my identity and finances at risk.

Meanwhile, the city where the nearby Hobby Lobby is located is issuing a Stay At Home order effective Monday morning, so the choice has already been made by others who get to decide what is essential. Hope what supplies I already have on hand will be sufficient for the duration.
Hobby Lobby does not sell anything essential in the midst of a national emergency. The writing was on the wall a month ago that mandatory closures were coming. I went out then and bought what I wanted for summer clothes, what I thought I might need for household items for the next 6 months, got a haircut, got the vehicles inspected early & serviced, and got a lot of my grocery store and pharmacy type shopping done in anticipation of the panic to come. Nobody should have been taken by surprise that most businesses were ordered to close. If I end up needing (or wanting) something I didn't think to buy, then that's on me.
 

Laurane

Canadian Loonie
Hallmark exec was on Fox a couple of days ago...... they are GIVING away free cards for people to send to one another to boost their spirits and let others know they are thinking of them. You order your cards and they mail them to you. Maybe some locals thought to enlarge on that plan and deliver them.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
I stocked up back in January after seeing what was happening in China and then later Italy! I went through my supplies to see what was made overseas and bought any items I would need from those sources first... January is the slow season for most Arts and Crafts stores so most of what I bought had been sitting there awhile already. I warned a couple of close friends, who I thought would listen, to do the same thing and I know they're quite happy they listened now... one is a leather worker and there is now a shortage of leather due to factories in Italy and Spain being shuttered and their entire inventory destroyed due to contamination issues.
 

cliff dweller

Contributing Member
Calls for all to mask up when out and about are here or coming. Are those going to materialize out of nothing?

Our small area sewing community produced more than 500 multi-layer face masks in less than a week.
Those materials came from somewhere.
Some can say these masks mean nothing. That is debatable.

Most masks are designed to cover current n95 masks or have the pocket to hold the n95 or other replaceable filters.

No this is not a time to shop until you drop.

If your state issued a mask up or stay in order, how many would be out of groceries or unable to work or get to needed medical help?
 

Blastoff

Veteran Member
Our Michaels is open for pick up orders only. You can't go shop recreationally there, but you can go next door to Target and loiter as long as you like.
 

Mark Armstrong

Veteran Member
I stocked up back in January after seeing what was happening in China and then later Italy! I went through my supplies to see what was made overseas and bought any items I would need from those sources first... January is the slow season for most Arts and Crafts stores so most of what I bought had been sitting there awhile already. I warned a couple of close friends, who I thought would listen, to do the same thing and I know they're quite happy they listened now... one is a leather worker and there is now a shortage of leather due to factories in Italy and Spain being shuttered and their entire inventory destroyed due to contamination issues.
Me too. I spent quite a bit at Hobby Lobby in February getting ready for the break in the supply line to show up at the shelves. But there are always things one didn't think of earlier, or unanticipated needs that pop up.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Me too. I spent quite a bit at Hobby Lobby in February getting ready for the break in the supply line to show up at the shelves. But there are always things one didn't think of earlier, or unanticipated needs that pop up.
They are closing indefinitely at 8pm this evening, OC asked me if I needed anything, checked my supplies and I'm good. I have some huge sheets of watercolor and mixed media paper if need be I can cut those down to size for my current projects. If they don't shut down Michaels and JoAnn's I'm going to be royally pissed. The HL here has a HUGE fabric section, probably one of the biggest in the state of Iowa and rivals that if not surpasses that of JoAnn's at the other end of the mini-mall. The university here having a Design College and Textile Collge with emphasis on fashion design and interior design probably plays a huge roll in the size of their fabric department and their art supply section is also one of the largest in the state of Iowa.

If I need fabric I'll have to order it online from Missouri Quilt Star Company, if I need paint, etc., I'll order from Jerry's Artarama or Dick Blick which I've ordered from in the past and both did a great job.

To be honest I think arts and crafts supplies are essential to the sanity of a lot of people... like gardening it's a distraction that keeps the masses from rioting in the streets.
 
I am reminded that the Founding Fathers knew ALL ABOUT contagious epidemics, in their day - yellow fever, smallpox outbreaks (Abigale Adams wrote of her concerns regarding smallpox outbreaks), plagues, etc. were all prevalent and possible, and most folks understood such.

That being said, I cannot find one mention of epidemic, or pandemic, in the U.S. Constitution or Bill of Rights, nor in any writings leading up to these documents by either the Federalists or Anti-Federalists.

All are silent on this matter.

The intentional slippery slope is carefully/purposefully hidden in the details.

FWIW.


intothegoodnight
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
For those of you with a Hobby Lobby near you type into Google any craft item they might sell and see if they come up. I was looking for blank leather cuff kits for an article I'm writing and Joann's, WM, and Target, came up but not HL... and Joanns and HL are in the same shopping center. Nothing, nada, it's like they don't even exist anymore. Curious to see what others are finding in their google search.
 
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