Help for friend's old dog urination problem?

mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Would appreciate any help for my friend, an owner of another board who has both cats and dogs and just loves them to death, but is frustrated with his old poochie's night-time urination problem and is frustrated with vet meds. Any herbal/home remedies you all know about? He rejects putting her to sleep now. Thanks very much for any advice on this.
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Him: She is on prednisone and I know that makes them piss alot -- and she is really pretty old, so that could add to it. She was one of the rescues so don't know for sure how old she is, but a few different vets have put her up anywhere around 16 to 19, and maybe 20 even. If there isn't anything wrong with her, but old age and medication, I am going to have to start setting my alarm for every hour or two to get up and take her out, cuz I ain't going to be pissed on by her every night. Rather get up every hour or so and haul her ass outside to do her nasty little business.

Me telling him to put her down maybe:

Him: Nope. Just can't do that yet. She still gets her thrills and spills outta life and has things she still enjoys doing. I would rather be pissed on every night or get up every hour. Just can't do it to her.

Me: Then see if there's any better/newer meds now that would help alleviate the problem. Even herbal. I could ask on one of my other boards that has a section on it for animals' health problems, if you like. Probably others would be interested too.

Him: Yeah, ask them about a very severe collapsing trachea too -- where it is collapsed pretty flat all the way from the throat down into the chest. She does alright sometimes, and doesn't some others. I think there are allergies mixed in there also that aggravate the condition more sometimes. Ask them and see if they know anything about it.


:)
 
nanna

nanna

Devil's Advocate
Perhaps train the old doggie (it *can* be done) back to newspapers, like a puppy?

nanna
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
I'll suggest that to him, thanks, Nanna.

In the meantime, he asked me to add this:



Originally posted by xxxxxxxxxxx
OK, I'll do it now, but it may take a day or two before you get responses.

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That's okay, just make sure you draw my attention to it when you put it up, so I don't miss it. They are no new medications for it. She has been to 4 regular like vets, then took her to three different specialists and I even ran her over to A&M's veternarian school. She tried out, or has been on any and everything they came up for her condition. The only thing there is out there left, besides the medications she is on, is an operation -- where they go in and replace the rings in the trachea. But they all said that the operation was pretty iffy and alot of doggies died during it, and a lot of times it didn't work. And then they said because of her age, they wouldn't do it any way. The risks would be way to high and she wouldn't survive it. So whatever else that might be out there, I would be more than glad to hear about it and give it a try. She is a three-pound Chihuahua.
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Nanna, I told him you said she could be retrained but right now he doesn't think so. Here's his response. Is she too old? Does this guy pamper his pets or what?

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Well, I'll just have to dismiss that one. The old girl is trained. I really believe her pissing in the night like that has more to do with her taking prednisone. She has been on it for 3 years now, and it wreaks havoc on your kidneys after a while and does make them piss often and alot. But I am going to take her in just to make sure it isn't something else along with the medication.

Evil E
The Everlasting Know-It-All

Registered: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 11996

And the reason she can't get off the bed herself when she has to go, is because the bed is higher than a normal bed, and she is too little to get off or on it by herself. I built her a ramp a while back, but at night when the lights are off, she is too scared to go down it. Daytime she has no problem going up and down any of her ramps. I also built her a ramp up to my desk here, and she is up and down that all day long. So it is just at night with no lights she has problems with going up or down the ramps. They are pretty steep.

:)
 
It'sJustMe

It'sJustMe

Deceased
Mz Kitty,

Gee, I feel so bad for the guy, who is obviously a big softy and loves his pooch:) My Mom loves chi's and had one who developed bladder troubles when she got old, not even due to the meds. It's really a bummer the doggy has been on the pred for so long. Bummer! Maybe if your friend just put a night light down near the floor, that gave pooch enough light to get up and down, on the ramp, she would at least go to the papers or elsewhere, at night? That's what I would try, I think. It's Just Me
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Thanks, Itsjustme. I'll tell him. Anyone else got any suggestions about any of the poor old girl's problems?
 
Mrs Smith

Mrs Smith

Membership Revoked
The best step this man could take for all involved, including the dog, is to put it in a small crate at night when he goes to bed since he won't put it down. He could even put the crate in the bedroom.

Allowing this type of behavior, whether deliberate or medical reasons is beyond me. The man may love his pooch, but he's obviously got no self-respect or concern for his home/belongings to allow this to continue. And he's creating bigger problems, cause when one dog i s allowed to piss in the house, the others aren't far behind. I guarantee that if he was honest with you about this, he'd admit the other dogs are doing it too. It's canine instinct to cover another dog's odors.

At this dog's age, a crate is the only answer, short of putting the dog outside permanently.
 
F

FireDance

TB Fanatic
I vote doggy pampers. They're made - I've seen them. Size could be a problem. I'll be the vet's office could help on this one. But a pair of child's underwear and a menstral pad could work too. I just don't think it would work as well as the "pampers" because it would twist, etc.

Poor guy/poor dog. I feel for both of them. If the dog can go up and down ramps, then I doubt that it's time for her to be put down. I would do the same thing. He could also get the incontinence pads for the bed and put those down. Plus a rubber sheet. That takes care of a lot of the big problem. Heck, I might even try newborn size disposable diapers. Worth a shot. Let us know how it comes out!
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
G

goatlady2

Deceased
When the cartilagenous rings in the trachea collapse there is nothing to do for it most especially with a tiny canine like a chi. As for the urinary problem, do like the vets say before any animal surgery - no fluids after 8:00 at night til the next morning. Herbs cannot rebuild lax muscles in the bladder and/or urethra. If the dog has been on prednisone for 3 years she must have a pretty hefty problem with swelling of tissues, normally pred. is a short term treatment and has to be weaned down gradually to get off it. Sorry for the dog's problems, but she is starting downhill it seems to me.
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Thanks, Goatlady, I'll give him your response. Apparently, he ran her to the vet again today and just got back. He says:

"They are cutting back on the prednisone a bit as they believe that is the cause of her couple of accidents. But they also took a blood test to test her kidneys and stuff, so will know more when that comes back."

Also, bodybagger, he said he would never put a sick tiny dog outside like that.

:)
 
It'sJustMe

It'sJustMe

Deceased
MzKitty,
I came back to tell you about my MIL. She's 84, and has been having swallowing difficulties for quite some time. Her doctor in po-dunk Indiana thought it was due to her enlarged heart. She went to Indianapolis where a team of doctors injected her esophagus with steroids, and did one final stretch of the tissues. They said if this didn't help, they could put a stent in the throat to hold it open, a new technique being used in only a few places. It's a long shot for a canine, but maybe if he did some research on stents for throats he might find something? Otherwise, I think the ideas here are good. That's a terribly long time to be taking steroids, human or canine. Poor doggy! Pampers and doggy pee-pads for the bed might be the only thing that works. Unless the night light works. It's Just Me
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Itsjustme, I don't think he would be able to do that, according to what he said above about the vets saying she was too old for that kind of thing. I think she's got to go soon myself, as do some of the other responders here, but he won't listen. Well, as long as she's still active for a while yet..........
 
tropicalfish

tropicalfish

Veteran Member
mzkitty, I just looked up incontinence in "Holistic Guide For a Healthy Dog".
Here is the treatment it listed. I'm not familiar with it, so maybe someone can give you some insight as to what it means.

Conium
Belladonna
Berberis Vulg.
Pulsatilla
Equisetum 6c
acupuncture
acupressure
BL 40
KI 3
Kidney Diet
chiropractic

Hopes this helps some. I've got another book I'm going to look it up in. I'll post that info as soon as I find it.
 
tropicalfish

tropicalfish

Veteran Member
Ok, I found it. This book is called "Natural Healthcare For Pets".

Remedies include:

Herbal-
Bearberry (uva ursi) and buchu will help prevent urinary infection, which is a constant risk because of the leakage of urine. Infection tracks easily up into the bladder when the sphincter muscle that normally "seals" the bladder is not fuctioning properly.
Ginkgo- a tonic remdy to help tone muscles.

Flower and Gem Remedies-
Diamond and perl gem essences help "tone" the bladder and its sphincter, and improve control.
Walnut- where incontinence occurs after a major life change such as a move of house.

Homeopathy
Causticum- strengthens weak bladder muscles, and is especially helpful in old animals, with gentral arthritis and muscle weakness.
Conium- for general hind-end weakness and loss of muscle strength.
Nux vomica- for irritable animals that occasionally dribble urine when excited or anxious.
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Oh, thanks, Tropicalfish! I will give him your advice. In the meantime, he posted this today:


What's going on with Princess Poochie?
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She hasn't done it again. She gets up pretty early and barks in my ear, and I don't ignore her anymore when she does. HAHAHAHA


You said they reduced the pred. So is she pretty much sleeping through the night now?
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I had to up the prednisone back to what it was again, as her trachea problems popped back into first gear. I have her on anitbiotics, hoping the trachea is being aggravated by some infection in her throat or lteeth. That usually helps her pull out of it. Her teeth get pretty bad, and they won't clean them anymore because of her trachea problems -- as they almost lost her around 2 years ago when they last put her under to clean them. So she is on antibiotic treatment for her teeth on a pretty regular basis. And it does help when she gets bad like this. In 7 days when her antibiotic tretament is over, I am going to try and decrease the prednisone again and see what happens.


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Dennis Olson

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
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The ramp idea is easy to fix. Add a dim nite-lite to the ramp itself. (Personally, I'd replace the ramp-deck with opaque plastic, and "rough it up" with sandpaper for doggie traction, then add a few peanut-lights under the deck itself. Dim, but bright enough to use.)
 
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