PREP Gun Show Man Down

Reasonable Rascal

Reasonable Rascal

Veteran Member
Received word from 2 different vendors this afternoon that a dealer went down at the show at the Winnebago County Fairgrounds at Pecatonica, IL. Cardiac arrest. Site is fairly remote I am given to understand and EMS had a long response. No AED on site, and folks went to the length of breaking into the first aid station in search of one.

Early CPR on site so that was good, but I was told in spite of that that they didn't expect that he made it based on the transport mode (silent, etc).

Received word just a few minutes ago he made have made it after all, but the promoter is withholding any announcement until tomorrow. So officially it remains unknown.

The first vendor that contacted me has an AED - I sold him a new battery for it in fact - but didn't have his gear with him. He is National Ski Patrol otherwise, trained and equipped.

I carry an AED myself because of the request by this promoter after the incident last year where someone had actually disabled the public access unit at a show on the west side of Des Moines. We had been asked to attend this show but it is a 6 hour+ drive so we opted out.

I need to convince the promoter to buy his own unit for shows I am not at, like the Wisconsin shows he does a lot of. There are always medics and other public safety people at these events. Give them the tools and stand back.

RR
 
Reasonable Rascal

Reasonable Rascal

Veteran Member
KFhunter said:
What do these things cost all setup ready to go, $1500-$1600

Good investment for a show
Click to expand...

Used but serviceable units can be had for as little as $500. A grand will get a fully checked, fresh battery and pads, etc unit with a biomed check sticker properly dated for reassurance and insurance qualification.

In my HOUSE I also have a pair of LPK5's. I do need some gel though, forgot to grab that last trip to the warehouse. I looked at fresh batteries while there but they were for later generation units.

RR
 
M

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
Even the most smallest villages around here will have at least 2 AED's in the street, plus the local GAA ( sports team ) , inshore / mountain rescue , GP will have one.

Most villages & towns have repurposed the old phone boxes.

defib.jpg
 
Tex88

Tex88

Veteran Member
I've recently re-familiarized myself with the legal situation regarding first aid in Europe vs the US, and while in much of Europe you have the legal obligation to help, first aid courses are mandatory to get a drivers license and you can't get sued for making honest mistakes, in the US, you'd be better off shooting the guy in the head and make a run for it.
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Marthanoir said:
Even the most smallest villages around here will have at least 2 AED's in the street, plus the local GAA ( sports team ) , inshore / mountain rescue , GP will have one.

Most villages & towns have repurposed the old phone boxes.

defib.jpg
Click to expand...
Cool.

Did you see Christian Erickson have a heart attack and die on the pitch? I put it up on the board when it happened, it was terrible. Just the week before the Football do-dad league mandatoried defibrillator's be at all venues. They had one there and brought him back. Until they got the defibrillator there, they had a guy the size of the Hulk, giving him chest compressions that were bringing his feet up off the ground. Which was the only thing you could see, 'cuz the teams were standing in a circle to give them privacy.

He plays for Manchester United now.

Last week at the Aston Villa game in the Europa Conference semi-finals in Aston Villa, they had a guy in the stands have a heart attack, They paused the game so the on field medics could attend to them. Don't know what all happened to the person, but once the EMT's got there and removed them (no camera's) the game resumed.

Having defibrillators on scene is a real blessing.
 
M

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
CaryC said:
Cool.

Did you see Christian Erickson have a heart attack and die on the pitch? I put it up on the board when it happened, it was terrible. Just the week before the Football do-dad league mandatoried defibrillator's be at all venues. They had one there and brought him back. Until they got the defibrillator there, they had a guy the size of the Hulk, giving him chest compressions that were bringing his feet up off the ground. Which was the only thing you could see, 'cuz the teams were standing in a circle to give them privacy.

He plays for Manchester United now.

Last week at the Aston Villa game in the Europa Conference semi-finals in Aston Villa, they had a guy in the stands have a heart attack, They paused the game so the on field medics could attend to them. Don't know what all happened to the person, but once the EMT's got there and removed them (no camera's) the game resumed.

Having defibrillators on scene is a real blessing.
Click to expand...

Yeah a life saver , round here you could be waiting 2 hrs for an ambulance.
 
Reasonable Rascal

Reasonable Rascal

Veteran Member
There is no save so dramatic as that made using a defib. Okay, maybe a D50 injection. There is a reason it is referred to as holy water. But successful defibrillation can actually reverse clinical death. Once that happens survival to discharge chances rise dramatically.

Early defibrillation combined with high quality (not 'I saw it done on TV once') CPR can raise the survival rate of out-of-hospital cardiac arrest to over 50%. Without it survival rates are generally 3%, with some places like King County, WA as high as 10% with a widely trained civilian population of CPR providers.

People need to understand there are no guarantees, only increased chances. Just like carrying a sidearm doesn't mean you are immune from active shooters having an AED doesn't mean a sudden arrest will be survived. But I prefer the chances to not having one.

And sometimes, very occasionally, CPR alone will make the save. Yes, follow on care is required but if you don't stop the bleed the surgeon isn't going to do any good later. Same analogy.

Here is the face of early CPR: Eric.jpg

Taken yesterday in FL. He and his wife are there for training necessary to expand his business from manual to automated production of his proprietary ammo. Cardiac arrest survivor of February 18, 2023. At the gun show.

RR
 
N

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
So the uninitiated can share the joke, the patient as treated above will almost INSTANTLY wake up and be RAGING PISSED you woke them up. If the Medic has NOT ALREADY secured the patient, SECURELY, they tend to ramble insanely over the ER.
I've had DFO's (Done fell-outs) awaken VERY quickly and I'd rather not be trapped in a squad with one again...
 
T

Thinwater

Firearms Manufacturer
night driver said:
So the uninitiated can share the joke, the patient as treated above will almost INSTANTLY wake up and be RAGING PISSED you woke them up. If the Medic has NOT ALREADY secured the patient, SECURELY, they tend to ramble insanely over the ER.
I've had DFO's (Done fell-outs) awaken VERY quickly and I'd rather not be trapped in a squad with one again...
Click to expand...
Board member TedM1911 was fond of this trick when he worked the ER in the same town where I was a cop. For some reason, the "patients" never seem to appreciate having their life saved in this manner. Shame, I thought it was awesome.
 
pauldingbabe

pauldingbabe

The Great Cat
night driver said:
So the uninitiated can share the joke, the patient as treated above will almost INSTANTLY wake up and be RAGING PISSED you woke them up. If the Medic has NOT ALREADY secured the patient, SECURELY, they tend to ramble insanely over the ER.
I've had DFO's (Done fell-outs) awaken VERY quickly and I'd rather not be trapped in a squad with one again...
Click to expand...


Exactly this.

I've been on the receiving and the pushing end.

You really have to let the runners alone. That narcan is going to wear off and his BP is going to be raging. Eventually they usually run into something/ someone that distracts them and you can get them. I've also seen them rage around then plank to the floor dead.

I don't know what the hell I was thinking going to work at a psychic hospital. The rent I guess.

:D
 
llknp

llknp

Senior Member
night driver said:
So the uninitiated can share the joke, the patient as treated above will almost INSTANTLY wake up and be RAGING PISSED you woke them up. If the Medic has NOT ALREADY secured the patient, SECURELY, they tend to ramble insanely over the ER.
I've had DFO's (Done fell-outs) awaken VERY quickly and I'd rather not be trapped in a squad with one again...
Click to expand...
And that is why you slam it entering the doors of the ER.....
 
Intestinal Fortitude

Intestinal Fortitude

Have Faith
Tex88 said:
I've recently re-familiarized myself with the legal situation regarding first aid in Europe vs the US, and while in much of Europe you have the legal obligation to help, first aid courses are mandatory to get a drivers license and you can't get sued for making honest mistakes, in the US, you'd be better off shooting the guy in the head and make a run for it.
Click to expand...
There are Good Samaritan laws
 
T

Thinwater

Firearms Manufacturer
Knoxville's Joker said:
I assume there was some bad blood with the ER and that was done out of spite for some reason...
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Maybe being tired of dealing with the same junkies over and over then having them treat everyone who saved them like shit and the entire time knowing that the taxpayers were footing the bill. Just a guess. I was for letting their sorry asses die right on the street but that's just me. One medic responded to and had to use narcan to revive the same junkie three times in one day. It took that moron almost two more weeks to finish themselves properly. If they are hell bent on jacking up dope that will kill them, who are we to stand in their way? I have less than zero sympathy for these junkies. Kids/teens experimenting, yes, help them and put in the effort to try and keep them from ending up like the adult scum bags. My scum bag brother had a group of about ten close friends. One got out of the drug game, cleaned up and is doing well. My brother is the only other one left alive of his group of friends, barely. I personally worked the deaths of three of them. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. I have no F's to give stupid people and will not suffer fools.
 
Knoxville's Joker

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Thinwater said:
Maybe being tired of dealing with the same junkies over and over then having them treat everyone who saved them like shit and the entire time knowing that the taxpayers were footing the bill. Just a guess. I was for letting their sorry asses die right on the street but that's just me. One medic responded to and had to use narcan to revive the same junkie three times in one day. It took that moron almost two more weeks to finish themselves properly. If they are hell bent on jacking up dope that will kill them, who are we to stand in their way? I have less than zero sympathy for these junkies. Kids/teens experimenting, yes, help them and put in the effort to try and keep them from ending up like the adult scum bags. My scum bag brother had a group of about ten close friends. One got out of the drug game, cleaned up and is doing well. My brother is the only other one left alive of his group of friends, barely. I personally worked the deaths of three of them. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. I have no F's to give stupid people and will not suffer fools.
Click to expand...
An EMT friend I know is a big fan of the safe injection sites as after some one OD's hazmat has to come and get them and by the time they arrive, the patient is usually dead. And he also thought it might be a good idea on the second OD call for the same patient they are given a paralytic before given narcan and forced to watch a video of what they are doing to others to scare some sense into them. This person also was really good at getting junkies to admit themselves into rehab programs. He also found that saline bags were a good way to get super combative patients to be compliant as they left no bruising. Though locally I have been told by a few EMTs an oxygen tank works as well and no one asks where the dent on their head came from, they know.
 
pauldingbabe

pauldingbabe

The Great Cat
llknp said:
And that is why you slam it entering the doors of the ER.....
Click to expand...

Exactly!

What are you going to do in a hurtling square bomb and a lunatic trapped inside?

Well if you haven't already lassoed the crazy you haven't seen real crazy yet.

More hands makes hard work short. I would rather have an ED full of people and security guards (with guns when I was in the game) than be by my little old self in the back of the box, with the loony.

Nothing like crazy strong. When I ran in Richmond VA, if you looked at me like you were going to spit on me? I would flip you over and re-tie you or put a washcloth over your face. Those were the choices. That's it.

What people have to remember is when you leave a scene with a patient for transport, your support system is left behind too. Paid EMS had 2 people per unit, per shift. Volunteer EMS we had more bodies on the busses.

It's all about manpower with any kind of crazy.
 
ComCamGuy

ComCamGuy

Remote Paramedical pain in the ass
Knoxville's Joker said:
An EMT friend I know is a big fan of the safe injection sites as after some one OD's hazmat has to come and get them and by the time they arrive, the patient is usually dead. And he also thought it might be a good idea on the second OD call for the same patient they are given a paralytic before given narcan and forced to watch a video of what they are doing to others to scare some sense into them. This person also was really good at getting junkies to admit themselves into rehab programs. He also found that saline bags were a good way to get super combative patients to be compliant as they left no bruising. Though locally I have been told by a few EMTs an oxygen tank works as well and no one asks where the dent on their head came from, they know.
Click to expand...
Topical O2 comes in two doses, aluminum and steel
 
P

Profit of Doom

Dismember
CaryC said:
Cool.

Did you see Christian Erickson have a heart attack and die on the pitch? I put it up on the board when it happened, it was terrible. Just the week before the Football do-dad league mandatoried defibrillator's be at all venues. They had one there and brought him back. Until they got the defibrillator there, they had a guy the size of the Hulk, giving him chest compressions that were bringing his feet up off the ground. Which was the only thing you could see, 'cuz the teams were standing in a circle to give them privacy.

He plays for Manchester United now.

Last week at the Aston Villa game in the Europa Conference semi-finals in Aston Villa, they had a guy in the stands have a heart attack, They paused the game so the on field medics could attend to them. Don't know what all happened to the person, but once the EMT's got there and removed them (no camera's) the game resumed.

Having defibrillators on scene is a real blessing.
Click to expand...
Any idea what caused it?
 
Knoxville's Joker

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Profit of Doom said:
Buzzkill?
Click to expand...
Yes. THey paid good money for the high and you just killed it with Narcan. Most of the time you dig into things and the druggies are hiding from themselves using drugs as a crutch.

I have run into it many times the current crop of kiddos have zero coping skills. Requiring constant hits of marijuana to stay calm? Constant drug use just to stay stable? No concept that you can live without any drugs period and function...
 
P

Profit of Doom

Dismember
Knoxville's Joker said:
Yes. THey paid good money for the high and you just killed it with Narcan. Most of the time you dig into things and the druggies are hiding from themselves using drugs as a crutch.

I have run into it many times the current crop of kiddos have zero coping skills. Requiring constant hits of marijuana to stay calm? Constant drug use just to stay stable? No concept that you can live without any drugs period and function...
Click to expand...
My 22 yo niece died a few weeks ago, “blue” was mentioned. Tox not back yet. Spent the day before with her. Next morning, she woke up dead.
 
Knoxville's Joker

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Profit of Doom said:
My 22 yo niece died a few weeks ago, “blue” was mentioned. Tox not back yet. Spent the day before with her. Next morning, she woke up dead.
Click to expand...
Blue in the death sense indicates lack of oxygen or blood flow in general. When a patient is about to pass in hospice it starts at the feet and works the way up.
 
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