ECON ground report from Greece (from Urban Survival site)

Border Collie

Border Collie

Deceased
From the Urban Survival site, http://www.independencejournal.com/today.htm
by George Ure, comes this report from a reader of this blog:

BEGIN QUOTE
A reader contributed a fascinating account of what life is like in Greece at the moment...

"Here is an update on the situation in Greece, from my boots on the ground.

My parents were in Greece for 2.5 weeks for my grandfather’s 1-year memorial.

To get to the village, they landed in Athens and drove north west across the center of Greece to the town of Lefkada, also the name of the island. From there they drove to the town of Nydri and took a ferry to the island of Meganisi.

Dad said the people in Athens are hungry looking. The traffic at the international airport was basically non-existent. In his own words, you could roll a bowling ball down the middle of the concourse and not hit anyone.

The commercial districts of Lefkas and Nidri were dead. People are digging through trash cans to find food. A cousin of his has had his salary cut from 1500 euros/ month to 800 euros per month.

He was barely making it before, now…? From what he saw on the news over there, the leftist party Syriza, should win first place in the election next Sunday.

The head of Syriza, Alexis Tsipras, has pledged to re-instate the drachma, set it 1 to 1 with the euro and therefore make things cheaper for everyone.

According to what dad was told, one of the current politicians let slip that some private savings would need to be confiscated so Greece would have cash on hand if the next bailout trache was withheld. This is what stated the bankruns a few weeks back.

Overall, “things” in Greece are bad and not getting better anytime soon. It is an insult to Greeks suffering through all this that the terms of the Spanish bailout are for reforms to the banking sector and not across the board as they were for Greece. It should get real interesting next week.

Anyway, keep up the great work, I look forward to every US and PN update.'
END QUOTE

Border Collie
 
Border Collie

Border Collie

Deceased
greece.jpg
 
Border Collie

Border Collie

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greece.jpg


http://mole.my/content/greek-government-gets-more-time-rescue-economy
Dec 2011
Victims of Greece's economic crisis are forced to go scavenging for food.

ATHENS: Early elections in Greece have been delayed to give the interim government more time to rescue the country's crisis-hit economy, but political uncertainty looks set to complicate delicate talks with creditors.

Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos late on Tuesday said ballots would be set in late April to enable critical negotiations with the eurozone and banks holding Greek sovereign debt to be concluded.

Venizelos made the announcement at an internal meeting of the Socialist party. No official date has been set by the government.

The election issue has undermined an uneasy coalition of three parties backing the caretaker government of Lucas Papademos, a technocrat given a limited mandate in November to conclude a debt-saving deal for Greece, comprising new eurozone loans and a voluntary rollover of maturing sovereign bonds held by banks.

The conservative New Democracy party, a senior coalition partner, this week consented to a lease of life for the government but insisted on elections before Orthodox Easter, which falls on April 15.

The conservatives, who lead opinion polls, are eager to dissolve parliament before new austerity measures are voted in early 2012.

Papademos' government was originally expected to be in power until mid-February but the bank talks have taken longer than expected.

The finance minister on Tuesday warned that the country's future would be decided in the debt rollover over the next month.

"The future of the country will be decided from January 16 and for the following two or three weeks, during which negotiations on the new programme will be held," Venizelos said, referring to the eurozone bailout which includes the debt rollover.

Negotiations with banks began in November to work out the details of how creditors will write down 100 billion euros' (RM420 billion) worth of the Greek government bonds they hold, aiming to cut total debt of 350 billion euros.

The banks agreed in principle to a write-down of about 50 per cent of the value of the Greek bonds they hold under pressure from a eurozone summit at the end of October.

Although progress has reportedly been made, talks with the Greek government are far from over.

The bond rollover was part of a package of measures agreed at the October summit which also involved a loan of 100 billion euros from eurozone countries, and 30 billion euros to recapitalise Greek banks which hold nearly 50 billion euros' worth of Greek debt.
 
T

Troke

On TB every waking moment
Is it true that they lived high on somebody else's hog for these last few years? If so, what did they expect would happen when the hog walked off to some other place?
 
Border Collie

Border Collie

Deceased
This isn't new, per se. This sort of thing has gone on before in all countries. What is changing is the scope. In Argentina 11 years ago their currency collapsed and most of the middle class had to resort to eating from trash left out in the streets and the like. Read about this here: http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2012/06/very-powerful-story-white-train.html

We have tent cities here in the USA. And this situation will worsen as we approach and then endure the collapse of our currency.

Border Collie
 
R

Richard

TB Fanatic
The head of Syriza, Alexis Tsipras, has pledged to re-instate the drachma, set it 1 to 1 with the euro and therefore make things cheaper for everyone.

how can this make things cheaper for everyone, this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard
 
psychgirl

psychgirl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Unfortunately, I don't think most of them realized what was happening and are too young to know anything any different or any other way of life. It's like they were born into their faulty system and thought that's the way things were "supposed" to be!
Just like being born into any welfare state/family/lifestyle. It's "just the way it is" for them and they just get a baffled look on their face when told differently.

I say that out of personal experience from a couple of co-workers I worked with a few years ago. They truly, truly, just think that's normal!
 
M

Masterchief117

I'm all about the doom
Richard said:
The head of Syriza, Alexis Tsipras, has pledged to re-instate the drachma, set it 1 to 1 with the euro and therefore make things cheaper for everyone.

how can this make things cheaper for everyone, this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard
Click to expand...

Don't you get it by now? He is a politician! He'll say anything to everyone to get elected! Then he and his will have more to eat. Logic and common sense goes out the window with that bunch (politicians and bureaucrats).
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Might as well stick these here:

Moody's downgrades Spain's rating to Baa3 from A3, places it on review - @cnbc

Submitted 1 hour ago from www.cnbc.com by editor


@CNBC tweeted:
BREAKING: Geithner: This time different from other Europe blow-ups; Euro. leaders not minimizing risks, not telling us they have lot of time

Submitted 28 mins ago from twitter.com by editor


Moody's downgrades Cyprus 2 notches over Greek euro exit fear - @AP

Submitted 4 mins ago from www.washingtonpost.com by editor
 
T

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Bloomberg TV last night (early a.m. today in Europe) said something to the effect that one out of every three Greek businesses is closed. I don't know what the means specifically, but even if it were just small businesses it would be catastrophic.
 
B

blueridge

...
Richard said:
The head of Syriza, Alexis Tsipras, has pledged to re-instate the drachma, set it 1 to 1 with the euro and therefore make things cheaper for everyone.

how can this make things cheaper for everyone, this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard
Click to expand...


Perhaps even more absurd is the notion that the new 'Drachma' would somehow magically MAINTAIN such an exchange ratio with the Euro.
 
Tristan

Tristan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Richard said:
The head of Syriza, Alexis Tsipras, has pledged to re-instate the drachma, set it 1 to 1 with the euro and therefore make things cheaper for everyone.

how can this make things cheaper for everyone, this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard
Click to expand...

Does Greece print Euros? I suppose if they print Drachmas, they can print as many as they need.

Of course, hyperinflation sucks, too.
 
T

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Sleeping Cobra said:
Greece needs to push the "reset" button and start from scratch.
Click to expand...

There is no mythical RESET button. Those who are owed money, will get their pound of flesh in the end, no matter what. I could even see the EU countries, upon breakup, escalating conflicts up to including military force to extract their pound of flesh.
Hmm, war in Europe again. Aren't we overdue there? Gee, and what country has contributed and loaned the most to all the poorer countries?

Who ever told you that you could just quit and start the game over?
That only works on Windows Solitaire
 
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T

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Tristan said:
Does Greece print Euros? I suppose if they print Drachmas, they can print as many as they need.

Of course, hyperinflation sucks, too.
Click to expand...

Greece cannot print their own Euros, neither can any other country. The EU organization controls that. All the member states gave away their sovereignty when the joined the EU.
Printing your own money used to be the time honored way :lol: that poor countries survived. They would continually debase their money by running the printing press untill they had to start the whole process over again with the drachma II and then III and so on, but at least it kept them going.

The PIGS joined the EU because they all envied the wealth of Germany, not realizing that the Germans had to work smarter and harder for their wealth. The PIGS say a chance at instant wealth they would not have to work for.
The EU is made up of member countries with totally different economic philosophies and expectations. They are an artificial construct trying to fit square pegs in round holes. They were doomed to failure before they began.
 
packyderms_wife

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
An old acquaintence of mine just came back from a 3 week trip to Greece. I asked her how things were going over there and she said in the cities there were a lot of elderly and children panhandling for food.

K-
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.
Golden Dawn threatens hospital raids against immigrants in Greece

Far-right party says it will throw immigrants and their children out on the street, as some hospitals run short of supplies

guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 12 June 2012 15.26 EDT

Ilias Panagiotaros's threat was greeted with loud applause at an election campaign rally in Athens. Photograph: John Kolesidis/Reuters


In an atmosphere that has become increasingly electric before Greece's crucial election, the far-right Golden Dawn has ratcheted up the rhetoric by threatening to remove immigrants and their children from hospitals and kindergartens.

Earning loud applause at an election campaign rally in Athens, Golden Dawn MP Ilias Panagiotaros said: "If Chrysi Avgi [Golden Dawn] gets into parliament [as polls predict], it will carry out raids on hospitals and kindergartens and it will throw immigrants and their children out on the street so that Greeks can take their place."

Medical supplies and beds at some hospitals are running desperately short. The governor of the state-run Nikea hospital, Theodoros Roupas, called on doctors to stop non-essential surgical interventions because of a critical shortage of gloves, syringes and gauze. The order was revoked when Roupas found emergency supplies later in the day.

"The situation is really critical and getting worse every day," said Dr Panaghiotis Papanikolaou, a neurosurgeon at the hospital. "There is not enough medical staff to cope and huge shortages of supplies. There's no money to even service scanners and surgical microscopes … we're talking about a major healthcare crisis – not in the making, it is happening now."

The paralysis spawned by six weeks of political instability following Greece's indecisive poll on 6 May has exacerbated the country's parlous public finances. Sunday's fresh general election is viewed as decisive for the county's future in the euro.

Alexis Tsipras, leader of the leftwing Syriza alliance, said it was obvious that Greece's rudderless state could no longer continue. A government had to be formed. "The country has to have a government, be it of the right or left," he said. Syriza is neck and neck with the conservative New Democracy party.

"The next 10 days following the election are extremely important," he said referring to a host of critical EU meetings, including an emergency summit scheduled at the end of the month.

He said the forthcoming vote would boil down to a single choice – whether Greeks wanted to support or reject the "memorandum" of onerous terms demanded by the EU and IMF in return for financial assistance.

"Greeks should know that, if Syriza is elected, there will be no memorandum on Monday," he said. "Syriza will replace the memorandum with a national plan of recovery … I think we have been totally clear." He said Syriza would ensure that minimum wages were increased, unemployment benefits extended and the public sector expanded.

Tsipras and his colleagues attempted to brush off the shock defection of Nikos Hanias, Syriza's candidate in Corinth. In an excoriating letter, the veteran leftist lambasted the party, saying its elevation to power "if only for an hour" would be catastrophic "for Greece and our children".

"It is shameful and dishonourable that, by exploiting the justified rage of society, you are gambling with our future, betting on the non-existent possibility that our creditors are bluffing without proposing something if the case is the contrary," Hanias wrote. He said he could no longer participate in a party that was "extremely dangerous for the Greek people and its future".

Conceding that Syriza was a conglomeration of parties "with many tendencies," Tsipras suggested the extraordinary outburst was linked to campaign dirty tricks. Hanias, who failed to be elected in last month's inconclusive election, had previously been a member of the socialist Pasok before joining the leftwing coalition.

"I want to say that we are ready for everything, and to see everything. When a system of power sees the ground slipping from underneath it, it can do anything," said Tsipras.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/12/golden-dawn-hospital-immigrants-greece?newsfeed=true
 
mzkitty

mzkitty

I give up.

Greeks are pulling cash out of banks, stocking up on food in panic ahead of make-or-break election Sunday

Dina Kyriakidou and George Georgiopoulos, Reuters Jun 13, 2012 – 8:41 AM ET | Last Updated: Jun 13, 2012 2:12 PM ET


Bankers said up to 800 million euros (US$1 billion) were leaving major banks daily.


ATHENS — Greeks pulled their cash out of the banks and stocked up with food ahead of a cliffhanger election on Sunday that many fear will result in the country being forced out of the euro.

Bankers said up to 800 million euros (US$1 billion) were leaving major banks daily and retailers said some of the money was being used to buy pasta and canned goods, as fears of returning to the drachma were fanned by rumours that a radical leftist leader may win the election.

The last published opinion polls showed the conservative New Democracy party, which backs the 130 billion euro ($160 billion) bailout that is keeping Greece afloat, running neck and neck with the leftist SYRIZA party, which wants to cancel the rescue deal.
Related

Germany warns Italy it could be next victim of eurozone crisis

What if Greece 'accidentally' exits the euro?

Why Spain's bailout may be a bad idea

As the election approaches, publishing polls is now legally banned and in the ensuing information vacuum, party officials have been leaking contradictory “secret polls”.

On Tuesday, one rumour making the rounds was that SYRIZA was leading by a wide margin.

“This is nonsense,” one reputable Greek pollster said on condition of anonymity. “Our polls show the picture has not changed much since the last polls were published. Parties may be leaking these numbers on purpose to boost their standing.”

The pollster said there was some consolidation, with voters turning to New Democracy and SYRIZA from smaller parties but the pool of undecided voters remained unusually large so close to the election and the result was impossible to predict.

Both parties say they want Greece to remain in the single currency but SYRIZA has pledged to scrap the bailout agreement signed in March which has imposed some of the toughest austerity measures seen in Europe in decades.

The European Union and International Monetary Fund have warned that Greece, which has only enough cash to last for a few weeks, must stick to the conditions of the bailout deal or risk seeing funds cut off.

EURO OR DRACHMA DILEMMA

New Democracy has been telling voters they must choose between the euro or the drachma, while SYRIZA promises to end the austerity measures imposed by Greece’s international lenders, such as salary and pension cuts, that have driven many Greeks into abject poverty.

Fears that Greece will collapse financially and leave the euro have slowly drained Greek banks over the last two years. Central bank figures show that deposits shrank by about 17%, or 35.4 billion euros (US$44.4 billion) in 2011 and stood 165.9 billion euros (US$208.1 billion) at end-April.

Bankers said the pace was picking up ahead of the vote, with combined daily deposit outflows from the major banks at 500-800 million euros (US$625 million to $1 billion) over the past few days, and 10-30 million euros (US$12-36 million) at smaller banks.

“This includes cash withdrawals, wire transfers and investments into money market funds, German Bunds, U.S. Treasuries and EIB bonds,” said one banker, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Retailers said consumers were stocking up on non-perishable food while almost all other goods were seeing a huge drop in sales as cash-strapped Greeks have no money to spare in the country’s fifth year of recession.

“People are terrified by the prospect of returning to the drachma and some believe it’s good to fill their cupboard with food products,” said Vassilis Korkidis, head of the ESEE retail federation.

“It’s over the top, we must not panic. Filling the cupboard with food doesn’t mean we will escape the crisis,” he said.

http://business.financialpost.com/2...panic-ahead-of-make-or-break-election-sunday/
 
B

Ben Sunday

Deceased
MzKitty posted this article:

Golden Dawn threatens hospital raids against immigrants in Greece

Far-right party says it will throw immigrants and their children out on the street, as some hospitals run short of supplies

guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 12 June 2012 15.26 EDT
Click to expand...


As barbaric as it may sound, this would be an important step to reducing the costs and social burdens of the immigrant population. In general, they have a high demand for services often coupled with little or nothing to provide in support.

I support this move ONLY for undocumented immigrants...in other words, the DP's (displaced people) or illegals who arrive in another nation with their palms outstretched and minimal or no intent to contribute to the stability or sanity of their new environment.

Right here in America, in our southwest regions in close proximity to Mexico, we have seen claims of the same conditions from the same downtrodden populations that want every service now and for free. It is a serious issue in Greece today. It is going to become a serious problem in the USA sooner than most imagine.
 
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