INTL Germany arrests 25 accused of plotting coup [Wanted to bring back 1880s military government]

[Melodi]

Now, this is interesting and somewhat unexpected, I knew Germany had a growing "problem" with some conservative groups, but I had no idea there was a real movement to bring back the late 19th version of the German States, probably (in this plan) under Prince Henery, You can't make this stuff up. Note these people are not Nazis. At least that isn't "the plan" being mentioned; rather, they wanted to restore military rule circa the 1880s with an aristocratic figurehead or active ruler (Prince, Emperor, whatever). - Melodi

Germany arrests 25 accused of plotting coup

A far-right group is suspected of planning to storm parliament and install an aristocrat as leader.

www.bbc.com

Germany arrests 25 accused of plotting coup
Published
12 minutes ago

#
By Paul Kirby
BBC News
Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government.

German reports say the group of far-right and ex-military figures planned to storm the parliament building, the Reichstag, and seize power.

A minor aristocrat described as Prince Heinrich XIII, 71, is alleged to have been central to their plans.

According to federal prosecutors, he is one of two alleged ringleaders among those arrested across 11 German states.

The plotters are said to include members of the extremist Reichsbürger [Citizens of the Reich] movement, which has long been in the sights of German police over violent attacks and racist conspiracy theories. They also refuse to recognise the modern German state.

An estimated 50 men and women are alleged to have been part of the group, said to have plotted to overthrow the republic and replace it with a new state modelled on the Germany of 1871 - an empire called the Second Reich.

"We don't yet have a name for this group," said a spokeswoman for the federal prosecutor's office.

Three thousand officers took part in 130 raids across much of the country, with two people arrested in Austria and Italy. Those detained were due to be questioned later in the day.

Justice Minister Marco Buschmann tweeted that a major anti-terror operation was taking place and a suspected "armed attack on constitutional bodies was planned".

The federal prosecutor's office said the group had been plotting a violent coup since November 2021 and members of its central "Rat" (council) had since held regular meetings.

They had already established plans to rule Germany with departments covering health, justice and foreign affairs, the prosecutor said. Members understood they could only realise their goals by "military means and violence against state representatives" which included carrying out killings.

Investigators are thought to have got wind of the group when they uncovered a kidnap plot last April involving a gang who called themselves United Patriots.

They too were part of the Reichsbürger scene and had allegedly planned to abduct Health Minister Karl Lauterbach while also creating "civil war conditions" to bring about an end to Germany's democracy.

The latest plot is also said to have involved a former far-right AfD member of the lower house of parliament, the Bundestag, who was lined up to be installed as the group's justice minister, with Prince Heinrich as leader.

There were plans for a military arm and active and former members of the military were a significant part of the coup plot, reports said. They included ex-elite soldiers from special units. The aim of military arm was to eliminate democratic bodies at local level, prosecutors said.

One of those under investigation is a member of the Special Commando Forces, and police searched his home and his room at the Graf-Zeppelin military base in Calw, south-west of Stuttgart.

 

[Melodi]

From Sky News:

German police raids target group suspected of far-right plot to overthrow government

Federal prosecutors say 25 suspected members and supporters of the Reichsburger group - the so-called Reich Citizens movement - were detained during the raids in 11 of the country's 16 states early on Wednesday.

news.sky.com

German police raids target group suspected of far-right plot to overthrow government
Federal prosecutors say 25 suspected members and supporters of the Reichsburger group - the so-called Reich Citizens movement - were detained during the raids in 11 of the country's 16 states early on Wednesday.

Wednesday 7 December 2022 09:28, UK

Police secures the area after 25 suspected members and supporters of a far-right group were detained during raids across Germany
Image:
Thousands of German police officers were involved in the raids across the country this morning
Why you can trust Sky News
Around 3,000 police officers have carried out raids across Germany to stop an alleged plot by a far-right terrorist group to overthrow the government.

Federal prosecutors said 25 suspected members and supporters of the Reichsburger group - the so-called Reich Citizens movement - were detained during the raids in 11 of the country's 16 states early on Wednesday.

Police search a car as they secure the area after 25 suspected members and supporters of a far-right group were detained during raids across Germany, in Berlin, Germany December 7, 2022. REUTERS/Christian Mang
Twenty-two German citizens were detained on suspicion of "membership in a terrorist organisation", and three others, including a Russian citizen, are suspected of supporting the group.

The Reichsburger movement brings together several far-right groups whose aim is to get rid of the current government and replace it with their own.

According to the authorities members of the group have been preparing to "carry out actions based on their ideology" since November 2021.

Armed police are reported to have stormed up to 100 properties across Baden-Wuerttemberg, Bavaria, Berlin, Hesse, Lower Saxony, and Thuringia, as well as in the Austrian town of Kitzbuehel and the Italian city of Perugia.

Police secures the area after 25 suspected members and supporters of a far-right group were detained during raids across Germany, in Berlin

A 71-year-old, who goes by the name Prince Heinrich XIII, is believed to be central to the group's activities and was among those arrested.

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Prosecutors said the group planned to install him as Germany's new leader, and he had contacted Russian officials with the aim of negotiating a new order in the country.

He was allegedly assisted in this by a Russian woman, Vitalia B.

"According to current investigations there is no indication however that the persons contacted responded positively to his request," prosecutors said.

Police secures the area after 25 suspected members and supporters of a far-right group were detained during raids across Germany, in Berlin

Der Spiegel reported that the barracks of Germany's special forces unit the KSK in the southwestern town of Calw was one of the locations raided.

It has in the past been scrutinised over alleged far-right involvement by some soldiers.

A female judge - identified by prosecutors as Birgit M-W - was also detained during the raids. She is said to have links with the far-right Alternative for Germany party.

Known by its German acronym AfD, the party has increasingly come under scrutiny by German security services due to its ties with extremists.

 

[Luddite]

3000 officers. 130 raids.

Current evidence on this side of the pond suggests goobermint was probably there since day one. Facilitating, instigating and exaggerating...

Worth watching
Thanks Melodi

 

[jward]

FLASH
@Flash_news_ua

️ German police detained 25 extremists who planned a coup d'etat, more than 50 people suspected. The Prosecutor General’s Office of the Federal Republic of Germany emphasized that there is a citizen of the Russian Federation among the detainees.
The suspects created a council with similar government agencies and its military wing. According to Zeit, the suspects had, in particular, "an armed attack on the Bundestag and the detention of politicians."
It was planned that some representatives of the security forces would show solidarity with the terrorist group, which would lead to a “coup”. @Flash_news_ua

2:47 AM · Dec 7, 2022


Replying to
@Flash_news_ua

These are the IT specialists from ruZZia, that Germany wanted?
3:06 AM · Dec 7, 2022

 

[jward]

3000 officers. 130 raids.

Current evidence on this side of the pond suggests goobermint was probably there since day one. Facilitating, instigating and exaggerating...

You can bet yer bippy on that one.

 

[jward]

Jeremy Cliffe @JeremyCliffe Writer at Large, @NewStatesman | Formerly Charlemagne columnist & Brussels bureau chief, Berlin bureau chief, Bagehot columnist, @TheEconomist Berlin & Londonnewstatesman.com/author/jeremy-… Joined January 2012 3,786 Following 93.2K Followers Followed by Mike Mazarr, Tadeusz Giczan, and 41 others you follow

Jeremy Cliffe
@JeremyCliffe

Wild, this: early this morning 3,000 police officers raided 130+ homes across Germany and made 25 arrests linked to a far-right coup plot. Conspirators said to include the aristocrat Prince Heinrich XIII, a former AfD MP & a former Bundeswehr commander.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600405561035567104

View: https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1600405561035567104?s=20&t=TcM_dSxuLUiwbh1eKvLH6Q


Of the 52 suspects several have military backgrounds and are suspected of stashing weapons. The group had set up a political "Council" and a military wing tasked with seizing power, which had considered storming the Bundestag and taking MPs hostage.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600407279613792256

View: https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1600407279613792256?s=20&t=TcM_dSxuLUiwbh1eKvLH6Q


Close to the extremist Reichsbürger scene ("Reich citizens" who do not recognise federal republic), the group had even designated a shadow cabinet, with Heinrich XIII as head of state and former AfD MP & judge (!) Malsack-Winkemann as justice minister.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600408637997862913

View: https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1600408637997862913?s=20&t=TcM_dSxuLUiwbh1eKvLH6Q


(Worth stressing that, from the first reports, the coup plans seem totally delusional. But group clearly dangerous and prepared to use violence. Zeit: "conspirators had already recruited from among former and still-active police officers and soldiers".)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600409500183236608

View: https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1600409500183236608?s=20&t=TcM_dSxuLUiwbh1eKvLH6Q




Replying to
@JeremyCliffe
Any suggestions of Russian sponsors; or that the motivation is German policy on Ukraine?


Replying to
@t0nyyates
On your first question: yes, apparently the authorities are looking into possible links to Russia

 

[jward]

avi scharf
@avischarf

Germany arrests dozens suspected of planning to overthrow gov't.
They had military training, belonged to a group influenced by QAnon, and believed the country was ruled by the 'deep state'. They planned an armed attack on the Reichstag

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1600416264211472384

View: https://twitter.com/avischarf/status/1600416264211472384?s=20&t=3aGmMacReqCMYWb6zLw7Mw

 

[Groucho]

"Worth stressing that, from the first reports, the coup plans seem totally delusional..."

Had they busted up V.I. Lenin's little party in Russia, I'm sure the 'authorities' would have said something similar. Those in power usually think their way is the only way. Everything else is "delusional." Look at some of the colonists in North America back in the late 18th century. Talk about delusional!

 

[Jeff Allen]

Wow, looks like someone actually cares about Germany. I had no idea…

J

 

[Melodi]

Wow, looks like someone actually cares about Germany. I had no idea…

J

The biggest industrial power in Europe (at this time), currently experiencing a major breakdown of services and energy, is also in reality (if not on paper) the head of the European Union. Yep, a lot of people do actually care about Germany, and anyone who lives in the EU (that would be me) or even the UK (like Richard) probably does pay at least some attention.

Not to mention the changing reporting on this story from the original people who wanted to restore the old German Imperial/Military style of government (with all those folks with titles) to "believed to be associated with MAGA and QANON."

So some mainstream media outlets are trying to paint these people as somehow being German versions of an American political movement and being "conspiracy theorists" at the same time.

 

[marymonde]

Can you blame them? Look at the caliber of people they’ve had running their country.

 

[Housecarl]

Can you blame them? Look at the caliber of people they’ve had running their country.

As well as the manner in which peaceful opposition to it is treated; and they wonder why "other means" are getting "explored"....

 

[Groucho]

Can you blame them? Look at the caliber of people they’ve had running their country.

Sadly, we're no better right now. That and our "fellow citizens" just keep digging the hole deeper.
Thinking P.A. and Georgia.

 

[von Koehler]

To repeat the historical cycle, the convicted plotters should be sent to Landsberg prison.

Perhaps that will inspire someone to write his memoirs.

 

[Wildweasel]

I wonder how many nursing homes the German version of the FBI had to visit to find enough patsies to set up for this conspiracy?

 

[subnet]

Prob more like its a political prisoner round up with a hollywood written cover story.

 

[marymonde]

Sadly, we're no better right now. That and our "fellow citizens" just keep digging the hole deeper.
Thinking P.A. and Georgia.

I totally agree.

 

[Ragnarok]

 

[Melodi]

From Sky News

Heinrich XIII Prince Reuss: Who is 'ringleader' of German far-right coup plot - and what is the Reichsburger movement?

A member of a minor German aristocratic family was allegedly picked to be leader of a new state by conspirators hoping to overthrown the country's government - but who is he and what beliefs are said to be behind the plot?

news.sky.com

Heinrich XIII Prince Reuss: Who is 'ringleader' of German far-right coup plot - and what is the Reichsburger movement?
A member of a minor German aristocratic family was allegedly picked to be leader of a new state by conspirators hoping to overthrown the country's government - but who is he and what beliefs are said to be behind the plot?

Wednesday 7 December 2022 18:26, UK

German authorities say they have foiled a plot by a far-right terrorist group to overthrow the government.

More than 3,000 police officers took part in raids across the country, with a self-styled prince among 25 people arrested.

But who is Heinrich XIII Prince Reuss - the 71-year-old alleged mastermind - and what is the Reichsburger movement that's said to have inspired the plan?

Police officers lead Prince Reuss to a police vehicle after searches at a house
PICPA/AP
Image:
Pic: AP
The 'ringleader' and the House of Ruess

Heinrich XIII comes from a German aristocratic family that goes back to the 12th century, the House of Ruess, and authorities say the plotters planned to make him leader of a new government.

According to German news site Bild, he had been in contact with Russian officials with the aim of negotiating a new order in the country.

His descendants once ruled over parts of eastern Germany, but this ended when the country became a republic and their land became part of the state of Thuringia in 1920.

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All male members of the family are named Heinrich (Henry), with the first child of each century known as Heinrich I, the second Heinrich II and so on.

It's said to be in tribute to Roman emperor Henry VI who gave the family their titles. The numbering system resets roughly each century - or when it reaches 100.


Image:
A lodge in Saaldorf, Thuringia, believed to be owned by Heinrich, was raided. Pic: AP
A lodge in Saaldorf, believed to be owned by Heinrich, was among the properties raided. Pic: AP
Heinrich XIII still appears to be wealthy and a hunting lodge in Thuringia, thought to belong to him, was among the properties raided on Wednesday.

Born near Frankfurt in 1951, he married an Iranian woman and has a son and daughter in their 30s.

Details of how he makes a living are unclear, but there are reports he works in property and finance.

The current head of the House of Reuss, Prince Heinrich XIV, earlier this year distanced himself from his relative.

In an interview with German site OTZ in August, he described him as a "confused old man" who believed in conspiracy theories and said he had not been in contact with the family for 14 years.

What is the Reichsburger movement?

The plotters planned to use "violence and military means" and were "driven by violent overthrow fantasies and conspiracy ideologies", say prosecutors.

"The arrested persons adhere to conspiracy myths consisting of various narratives of the Reichsburger ideology as well as the QAnon ideology," prosecutor Peter Frank said in a statement.

Reichsburger translates as "Citizens of the Reich" and adherents believe the post-Second World War German state is illegitimate and a puppet state created by the Allies.

Reichsburger has largely been a loosely structured movement made up of splinter groups and individuals.

Police escorts a person to a helicopter during Wednesday's raids
Image:
Police escort a person to a helicopter in Karlsruhe during Wednesday's raids
Police secures the area after 25 suspected members and supporters of a far-right group were detained during raids across Germany
Image:
Police also carried out operations in Berlin
There are estimated to be around 20,000 members in Germany and the country's intelligence agency believes 5% are far-right extremists with racist and anti-Semitic views.

Some refuse to pay taxes, reject Germany's laws, or spam government departments and courts with made-up demands as a show of disobedience and to jam up the system.

The group had been seen as fairly innocuous until 2016, when a Reichsburger believer shot and killed a police officer and injured three others when they raided his home to confiscate weapons.

Authorities started to monitor the group more closely and there have been increasing concerns about members stockpiling weapons.

The group is also said to be sympathetic to America's right-wing QAnon conspiracy myths, which claim a secretive and evil global cabal conspired against Donald Trump when he was president.

 

[desert_fox]

I could see them going after Trump and his supporters the same way after the brouhaha about his comments on the Constitution lately.

 

[von Koehler]

Wilhelm II was the last Kaiser (from the Roman title of "caeser") of Imperial Germany. He was forced to abdicate the throne on 9 November 1918 and fled to exile in neutral Holland as the Allies were inflicting severe losses to the German army. The end of his reign lead to the infamous Weinmar Republic and hyperinflation.

He had numerous children; seven so their might be today a surviving descendant with standing to claim the imperial title back. However, their traditional power base of Prussia no longer exists being divided and absorbed by present day Poland and Russia.

View: https://youtu.be/m3HGOVKEiK0

About three minutes

View: https://youtu.be/Lv9vRMkQ5j4

About three minutes

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

They are trying to bring back the napoleonic wars…

 

[Ractivist]

Sadly, we're no better right now. That and our "fellow citizens" just keep digging the hole deeper.
Thinking P.A. and Georgia.

I'd say voter fraud, period, without doubt. Screw the narrative that our fellow citizens didn't turn out. Everything points south......these days. Who counted those votes?

 

[von Koehler]

View: https://youtu.be/3Q8c3g5G05U

6:35 minutes

 

[mecoastie]

They are trying to bring back the napoleonic wars…

Napoleonic Wars were long before the rise of the Second Reich

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

Napoleonic Wars were long before the rise of the Second Reich

They were but set the stage for things to follownlater

 

[Melodi]

Celebrity chef Frank Heppner is 'suspect' in German far-right coup plot, according to reports
Celebrity chef Frank Heppner is the father of Real Madrid star David Alaba's girlfriend, Shalimar Heppner, and the pair have one child together.

Celebrity chef Frank Heppner is 'suspect' in German far-right coup plot, according to reports

Celebrity chef Frank Heppner is the father of Real Madrid star David Alaba's girlfriend, Shalimar Heppner, and the pair have one child together.

news.sky.com

By Bethany Minelle, news reporter

Saturday 10 December 2022 09:18, UK

Police secures the area after 25 suspected members and supporters of a far-right group were detained during raids across Germany
Image:
The foiled Reichsburger coup plan has led to the biggest ever national police operation against right wing extremism
Why you can trust Sky News
A celebrity chef is among those arrested over an alleged plot by a far-right terrorist group to overthrow the German government, local press has reported.

Frank Heppner, 62, who is the father of Real Madrid star David Alaba's girlfriend, is understood to have been arrested in the Austrian ski resort Kitzbuhel, where he has a restaurant.

The foiled coup of the Reichsburger movement - also known as the Reich Citizens movement - led to the biggest ever national police operation against right wing extremism.

German celebrity chef Frank Heppner. Pic: YouTube
Image:
German celebrity chef Frank Heppner. Pic: YouTube
The raids took place in 11 of the country's 16 states last week, with 3,000 armed police storming up to 100 properties across Baden-Wuerttemberg, Bavaria, Berlin, Hesse, Lower Saxony, and Thuringia, as well as in Kitzbuhel and the Italian city of Perugia.

The plotters allegedly wanted to install Heinrich XIII Prince Reuss, a 71-year-old aristocrat, as the head of a new government. He was among those arrested.

Prosecutors said the group planned to install him as Germany's new leader.

Heppner's role, should the alleged coup have been successful, would have been to "take over the canteens of the new German Reich" and supply their troops, according to Austrian daily Die Presse.

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Heinrich XIII was one of those arrested in raids across Germany. Pic: AP
Heinrich XIII Prince Reuss: Who is 'ringleader' of German far-right coup plot - and what is the Reichsburger movement?

Related Topics:
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A specialist in Euro-Asian cuisine, Heppner has previously worked in five-star hotels all over the world.

David Alaba and Shalimar Heppner at FC Bayern Munich Christmas party in 2018
Image:
David Alaba and Shalimar Heppner at FC Bayern Munich Christmas party in 2018
His daughter, Shalimar Heppner, 28, has a son with Real Madrid's Alaba, who also captains the Austrian national team. Sky News has contacted him for comment.

Twenty-three suspected members and supporters of the group have been arrested according to German authorities.

Prosecutors said 22 German citizens, and one Russian woman were detained during the raids. They said the extradition of two other people detained in Italy and Austria.

Further arrests are expected to follow.

According to Der Spiegel, among the items seized in the raids were 9mm pistols, swords, knives, stun guns, combat helmets, night vision equipment, and the duty weapons of a police officers who were among the suspects.

The leftwing daily Die Tageszeitung reported that investigators found a "hitlist" with 18 names and addresses on it of prominent German politicians and journalists that the group may have intended to target.

The Reichsburger movement brings together several far-right groups whose aim is to get rid of the current government and replace it with their own.

According to the authorities, members of the Reichsburger group have been preparing to "carry out actions based on their ideology" since November 2021.

Following the raids, German interior minister Nancy Faese said the raids showed the country "fighting back against the enemies of democracy".

The case has put a spotlight once more on the far-right Alternative for Germany party. A female judge - identified by prosecutors as Birgit M-W - who is understood to have links with the party was also detained during the raids.

Her intended post-coup role was understood to have been justice minister.

Known by its German acronym AfD, the party has increasingly come under scrutiny by German security services due to its ties with extremists.

 

[Melodi]

The self-proclaimed kingdom that doesn't recognise Germany

Money, ID cards, flags, and even their own king: meet the Germans who refuse to recognise the state.

www.bbc.com

The self-proclaimed kingdom that doesn't recognise Germany
Published
12 hours ago

Share
Kingdom sign
Image caption,
The so-called Kingdom of Germany is a self-proclaimed state, complete with its own monarch
By Jenny Hill
BBC Berlin correspondent
In the depths of the countryside in eastern Germany, there's an invisible border.

The turrets of an imposing castle loom out of the treetops. A sign on its front door solemnly informs the visitor that they've entered - in effect - a new country.

The "Königreich Deutschland" (Kingdom of Germany) is a self-proclaimed independent state - complete with its own self-appointed king.

Peter the First, as he prefers to be known, receives us in a rather gloomy wood-panelled hall.

It's about a decade since his coronation - there was a ceremony, complete with orb and sceptre - and the foundation of his so-called kingdom, which mints its own money, prints its own ID cards and has its own flag.

He's what's known in Germany as a "Reichsbürger" (Citizen of the Reich), one of an estimated 21,000 people who are defined by the country's intelligence agencies as conspiracy theorists who don't recognise the legitimacy of the post-war German state.

They've risen to prominence this week, with the arrest of 25 people in raids on Reichsbürger suspected of plotting to storm the German parliament building, the Reichstag, in a violent overthrow of the government.

King Peter says he has no such violent intentions.

But he does believe the German state to be "destructive and sick".

"I have no interest in being part of this fascist and satanic system," he says.

"King of Germany"
Image caption,
King Peter told the BBC his kingdom now has 5,000 citizens
We settle in another room to talk, on plush armchairs under a glittering chandelier.

But this is no salon; we're surrounded by lights and cameras. This is King Peter's own TV studio - he hopes to start a TV channel - and I learn that one of his subjects will be recording every moment of our interaction.

He felt, he said, that he had no choice but to found his kingdom, having tried, unsuccessfully, to run as a mayor and a member of the German parliament.

"People who are corrupt, criminal or willing to be used thrive in the German system and those with an honest heart, who want to change the world for the better, in the interests of the common good, don't have a chance."

His real name is Peter Fitzek, and his activities have brought him into frequent conflict with the German law.

Germany doesn't recognise the kingdom or its documents: Mr Fitzek has several convictions for driving without a licence and running his own health insurance programme. He also went to prison for several years for embezzling his citizens' money but the conviction was later quashed.

The regional intelligence service, which has been watching him and his kingdom for nearly two years, told us they regarded it as a threat. They liken it to a cult which exposes people to conspiracy theories and extremist ideology.

Such theories and ideology have proliferated in Germany in recent years, fuelled by the pandemic. And Covid-19 appears to have increased support and membership of the kingdom.

Mr Fitzek tells us he has about 5,000 citizens. He's expanding the kingdom, buying up land in Germany in order to set up a number of communities in which those people can ultimately live.

Reichsbürger cash
Image caption,
The self-proclaimed kingdom has even minted its own currency
We visited one such outpost about 150 miles (240km) away from the king's castle.

Ancient trees surround the site of another old castle in the village of Bärwalde, an hour and a half's drive south of Berlin. Around 30 people live on the site either in the main building or caravans which scatter the lawn along the main driveway.

Despite the faded beauty of the castle, it's a bleak place. They're still renovating the buildings and clearing the grounds. Tree trunks still grow through the skeleton of an old greenhouse.

But the people here are proud of their home which they also consider to be kingdom territory.

Citizens don't pay German tax and won't send their children to school, which is illegal in Germany. They are bound by their own legal structure - presided over, I'm told, by King Peter - and ultimately they intend to have their own healthcare system.

"The kingdom can provide everything that you need in daily life. Food and nourishment, social security, all these systems are there," says Benjamin, who recently moved in with his young family and is responsible for PR.

For all their plans to build a sustainable green community, using modern technologies, citizens appear to have little faith in modern medicine.

No-one here is vaccinated against Covid-19, Benjamin told me. It's a common position for Reichsbürger, many of whom joined protests against measures to control the pandemic.

"People who think for themselves today will often be condemned as conspiracy theorists," says Benjamin. "But it's a fact that these are often the people who stay up at night thinking about problems, not just their own but those of society and politics."

As we left the commune and drove back through the village, a neighbour was standing on his front lawn.

When I asked what he thought of his neighbours, he frowned. They should pay tax he said. After all, they still accessed Germany's resources. But what worried him the most, he added, were his own children. "What kind of influence will this lot have on them?"

For many years Reichsbürger were a bit of a national joke. Germany is learning to take them seriously.

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

Looks like Germany stepped on a land mine with their approach on things.

 

[Scrapman]

25 people is hardly a coup , sounds like dissenters are being arrested.

 

[Luddite]

It takes no prescience to see where this leads...

 

[Melodi]

One of the disturbing things about this story is how it is being reported and the sheer number of military and resources involved in going after the folks involved. It is a significant story in Germany and a rather large one in Europe. Several observers have wondered if there is more to this than meets the eye, or is the German Government just looking for an excuse for a crackdown?

 

[WFK]

One of the disturbing things about this story is how it is being reported and the sheer number of military and resources involved in going after the folks involved. It is a significant story in Germany and a rather large one in Europe. Several observers have wondered if there is more to this than meets the eye, or is the German Government just looking for an excuse for a crackdown?

Looks like they found a very fine net for fishing that catches everything one could call opposition.

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

Well I had a weird dream this week and it fits in this kinda weirdly:

I had outfitted a WW1 biplane gussied up to look like the red baron, but I had a tesla engine as the power plant and zero point energy module for the battery and I was out to eliminate the Keiser of Germany. After that I woke up and it was like WTF did I just dream, and why?

 

[Wildweasel]

Well I had a weird dream this week and it fits in this kinda weirdly:

I had outfitted a WW1 biplane gussied up to look like the red baron, but I had a tesla engine as the power plant and zero point energy module for the battery and I was out to eliminate the Keiser of Germany. After that I woke up and it was like WTF did I just dream, and why?

Look out for the guy in the beagle costume flying a winged doghouse. It's got the new fusion power device Lockheed Martin has been working on and can outclimb and outrun anything in the sky.

 

[von Koehler]

Many people do not realize that the Third Reich did NOT instantly vanish with Hitler's death. There was a successor government based in northern Germany, near the Danish border. They attempted to negotiate a surrender to the British but were presented instead with a demand for immediate unconditional surrender.

Shortly afterwards, the rump government was arrested by the Allies and considered as criminals. Technically, at this point there was no legitimate German government. Allied occupation wasn't a government approved by the citizens.

So there is a slim element of truth to the claim the current government isn't legally valid.

View: https://youtu.be/y99DxDKhOPw

9:09 minutes

View: https://youtu.be/S9KMMBJCwCg

7:51 minutes

View: https://youtu.be/Oz3FX1n_yk8

11:23 minutes

 

[artichoke]

Many people do not realize that the Third Reich did NOT instantly vanish with Hitler's death. There was a successor government based in northern Germany, near the Danish border. They attempted to negotiate a surrender to the British but were presented instead with a demand for immediate unconditional surrender.

Shortly afterwards, the rump government was arrested by the Allies and considered as criminals. Technically, at this point there was no legitimate German government. Allied occupation wasn't a government approved by the citizens.

So there is a slim element of truth to the claim the current government isn't legally valid.

View: https://youtu.be/y99DxDKhOPw

9:09 minutes

Fascinating pictures there. If we could go back to the 1880's Germany, pre-Nazi, the land of Gauss, Goethe and Bach (well that had been a while but the musical tradition was still alive), rather than today's lefties and commies, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

 

[Melodi]

A blog on this topic from Dr. Joseph P. Farrell with some interesting questions and speculations:

CONCERNING THAT ALLEGED GERMAN COUP D'ETAT BY ALLEGED ROYALISTS

One of the topics of discussion on everyone's lips is the recent alleged coup d'etat attempt in Germany, allegedly run by a group of…

gizadeathstar.com

CONCERNING THAT ALLEGED GERMAN COUP D’ETAT BY ALLEGED ROYALISTS
December 12, 2022 / Joseph P. Farrell / No Comments
One of the topics of discussion on everyone's lips is the recent alleged coup d'etat attempt in Germany, allegedly run by a group of royalists, or right wing MAGA-like groups, or embedded "ultra ring wingers" (code for Neo-Nazi) in the German state structure, or whatever. In fact, if I were to say what's uppermost on people's minds just judging by the materials sent to me this past week in my email inbox, I'd have to say that this story easily eclipses all others, and accordingly, I'm going to spend some time going over it, and sharing my "take" on it, for whatever it's worth.

Firstly, a shout out of thanks to all of you who shared articles - some of which are referenced below - on this story: L.G.L.R., T.M., V.S., T.R., M., P.G., S.D., and our friend and colleague, Bernard Grover, for all the articles linked here:

The Global Zeitenwende



Heinrich XIII: Germany's far-right prince who planned a coup

Germans on the verge of a nervous breakdown

German police foil alleged ‘citizens of the Reich’ coup plot

Germany Arrests Dozens Accused Of Plotting To Overthrow Government

And last and by no means least, Bernard Grover's take on the restoration of royal symbolisms, and one of my "takes":

Royals, Reich or Wrong: One step over the bloodline

Rather than reviewing and commenting on quotations from these articles as is my usual practice, I want to jump right into my high octane speculations as these will more or less provide a summary of the articles' contents. The first thing that I suspect one must notice is the timing of this event. Increasingly I do not view the occurrence of events in isolation. My inclination is to assume their interconnectedness until proven otherwise, and while I realize this assumption contains its own methodological risks of massive misinterpretation, I think events of the past few years warrant such an approach; in the end, it saves a massive amount of time from having to argue for that assumption and then to argue a set of interpretations on its basis. We simply assume it, and proceed directly to the interpretations that it seems to imply.

Having done so, we notice several things about the timing: (1) it occurs after the death of Queen Elizabeth II and the accession of King Charles III in Great Britain and after several changes of government in that country; (2) it occurs concurrently with German Chancellor Scholz announcing a massive overhaul of German defense policy and posture, an overhaul that, let it be noted, appears also to be an economic and industrial stimulus package for German industry suffering under collapse of demand: when demand is needed for heavy industry, look to military expenditure; (3) it occurs when the USSA has embroiled itself and its European colonies and satrapies in a useless and dangerous war in the Ukraine, and after years of American promise-breaking and meddling with respect to that country and Russia; (4) it occurs when China is stepping up its pressure to woo American allies away from the West (think of Mr. Xi's recent trip to the Saudis), and finally (5) it occurs concurrently with German police also discovering two "moving" Chinese "police stations" in that country. The last time I looked, such extra-territorial jurisdictional exercise was frowned on in international law (except of course, for the USSA, which insists its citizens must continue to pay American taxes even if they live overseas...go figure). Finally, the event occurs concurrently with the ongoing financial and economic weakness of Europe, the EU, the European Central Bank, and of course, the whole FTX Bankman-Fraud Bankman-Fried scandal, which of course involves the Ukraine and thereby affects European security.

I belabor the timing aspect of the event because, amid some attempts of western media to downplay the significance of the coup plot, and to emphasize German "hysteria" and so on (the BBC for example), the plain fact of the matter is that the timing indicates that the plot was a serious effort, not merely the plaything of a disgruntled and elderly European royal. Rest assured, had a similar event occurred in France or Italy or Austria to restore the Bourbons, or the Hapsburgs, or the Savoys, it would have been taken very seriously. This is not, in my opinion, hysteria on the part of the German government. In fact, as news continues to develop, we're informed that there were arrests in Austria and Italy as well, making one wonder why anyone from those countries would be involved in a German Putsch. We'll get back to that in a moment.

It's that word Putsch that I want to discuss for a moment. Coups d'etat are risky affairs, and more often fail than succeed, especially in a country like Germany where the government is "muscular", which is a nice way of saying that if you want to have a bad day, just cross a German policeman. Coups are not known as being all that successful in Germany. In fact, off the top of my head, I can't really think of any, except perhaps one, and it doesn't really qualify as a coup d'etat, and that was the collapse of Wilhelm II's support (and Quartermaster-General Erich Ludendorff's support) in the German General Staff in late 1918 that led to Wilhelm's abdication and self-exile in the Netherlands. Otherwise, coups in Germany have had a track record of colossal failure: the 1923 Beer Hall Putsch in Bavaria? Failure. The 1950s Naumann coup against Adenauer? Failure. The July 1944 Bomb Plot and Coup attempt against Hitler? Failure. The 1938 Generals' plot? That one didn't even get off the ground. So I'm not surprised that this one failed. If you think surveillance in the modern USSA is bad, you haven't been dealing with the BVD or BKA or BND lately, and trust me, they listen to everything in Germany, and always have.

What I'm more intrigued by is a question looming over all of this, that I have not yet seen be asked nor answered: given the size of this apparent conspiracy, why was no action taken earlier either by the plotters or by police? There is, in other words, something about the aspect of timing that we're not being told. Did the German security services delay a round up until they had more or less the complete outlines of the conspiracy? Or were they in fact forced to move ahead of schedule? I ask these questions, and particularly the last one, because if you followed the news reporting, the narrative seemed to subtly shift from royals wanting to reinstall an 1880s style imperial German monarchy, presumably with Prince Heinrich XIII as Kaiser und Koenig, to a group of "ultra-right" people with MAGA and Trump-like pretensions, a characterization that seems to me, on the surface, to be ludicrous because in all my years of dealing with Germans from boyhood until now, I've never met a single one on the left or right that even remotely resembles the American right wing Republican! My point is, the narrative shifted a bit, but for the moment, it appears the media is sticking with the royalist plot narrative.

And here is precisely where getting a handle on this story gets "prickly". We're being told that this was all about restoring some version of the old Second Reich, the imperial German Kaiserreich of 1871-1918. Why then were Austrians and Italians involved? Neither Austria, nor the Austrian Tyrol, were parts of the Second Reich. Nor is the family of Heinrich XIII the royal and imperial family of that Kaiserreich. THat family is, of course, the Von Hohenzollerns, and its current head, Prince Georg Friedrich von Hohenzollern und Preussen is very much alive and kicking. So, for that matter, is the revival of symbols of the old Kaiserreich in modern Germany (see my articles THINGS (OR RATHER PEOPLE) THAT MAKE YOU GO "HMMM...": THE HOHENZOLLERNS and CULTURE CORNER: THE KAISER'S CASTLE AND THE GOOSESTEP). The only time Austria and large portions of Italy were part of the Reich was under the First Reich, or Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. That may be a clue as to the ultimate aim and designs of the coup plotters, I do not know, for certainly many German royal families, including the Hohenzollerns, held the right of electors of the Holy Roman Emperors. After all, a "revived Roman Empire" is very much a part of the "dispensensationalist" template that I have long believed informs Mr. Globalooney's plans.

In short, my friend Bernard Grover in his article that I've linked above, has adequately outlined my (and my friend's) private discussions about a possible scenario of the "return of the royals", and I indeed think that this is a possibility in play. What Mr. Grover has done is to expand the context to include the royal and imperial houses of Asia as well, and while we're discussing the return of royal and imperial symbolism, do not forget that the ceremony of the installation of the Emperor Naruhito of Japan was broadcast on television just a few years ago. Could we indeed, as Mr. Grover summarizes this speculation, be looking at a "restoration" scenario:

With the increased use of royal symbols, the decay of democracy, and the rumblings of a return to bloodlines, are we seeing a move towards regional if not a global monarchy? Could the perceived gangland wars - by me and others - be the royal houses re-establishing territories, and even settling who gets to run the planet? Are we seeing the rise of the Fourth Reich, or return of the Second Reich? Did monarchy come to an end in the 20th century, or did they just let us run free until we made a (ahem) royal mess of things?

Assuming the rise of the royals explains many things - the all-out attack on the middle class, the moral and ethical decay of secular democracies, and the global desire for beneficent if not benign leadership.

It also explains the incessant expansion of Socialism. Socialism, after all, is defined by State ownership of everything, and once in place, is easily transferred to a royal bloodline - especially one with established roots and “rightful” claims. Ownership of everything by a single individual defines monarchy.

It would explain the push for absolute dependence on the State, from cradle to grave, much like the feudal peasants of yore. After all, if all property and sovereignty are vested in the monarch, doesn’t that mean we will “own nothing and be happy”? Isn’t that essentially the defining characteristic of a “subject” to the crown?

Indeed, is Mr. Xi's quest for "lifetime" appointments but a clever disguise for bringing back the Han Emperors? Are we looking at the attempt to create (twelve?) regional kingdoms held together by a global Imperator Rex? Again, possibly. Time will tell as we learn more about this story, but don't expect the media to cover it. I rather suspect the story will be quickly buried, and forgotten. But if this view of the possible scenario is correct, it needs to be followed closely. If I hear or obtain any information, I'll keep everyone posted.

The second possibility here is equally plausible, and that it that this story is one big distraction, using a very real (and apparently amateurish) coup plot as a crisis of opportunity, and that the real goal here is - like the Reichstag fire - to create a false flag to allow a declaration of emergency, and a crackdown on internal opposition, for whatever reason, though again, here, Herr Scholz's recent calls for a much more muscular German military and foreign policy provide one possible connecting motivation.

The bottom line: regardless of which of these two views, or anywhere on the spectrum between them, that one lies, I view this story as being very significant, and one to watch closely. Not only that, but I also view it as further confirmation of that speculation I and my friend have entertained in private conversation, that the royals are fed up, and may be privately entertaining the possibility of a return to the visible and direct, rather than hidden and remote, exercise of power.

See you on the flip side...

Joseph P. Farrell

 

[Wildweasel]

A blog on this topic from Dr. Joseph P. Farrell with some interesting questions and speculations:

CONCERNING THAT ALLEGED GERMAN COUP D'ETAT BY ALLEGED ROYALISTS

One of the topics of discussion on everyone's lips is the recent alleged coup d'etat attempt in Germany, allegedly run by a group of…

gizadeathstar.com

CONCERNING THAT ALLEGED GERMAN COUP D’ETAT BY ALLEGED ROYALISTS
December 12, 2022 / Joseph P. Farrell / No Comments
One of the topics of discussion on everyone's lips is the recent alleged coup d'etat attempt in Germany, allegedly run by a group of royalists, or right wing MAGA-like groups, or embedded "ultra ring wingers" (code for Neo-Nazi) in the German state structure, or whatever. In fact, if I were to say what's uppermost on people's minds just judging by the materials sent to me this past week in my email inbox, I'd have to say that this story easily eclipses all others, and accordingly, I'm going to spend some time going over it, and sharing my "take" on it, for whatever it's worth.

Firstly, a shout out of thanks to all of you who shared articles - some of which are referenced below - on this story: L.G.L.R., T.M., V.S., T.R., M., P.G., S.D., and our friend and colleague, Bernard Grover, for all the articles linked here:

The Global Zeitenwende



Heinrich XIII: Germany's far-right prince who planned a coup

Germans on the verge of a nervous breakdown

German police foil alleged ‘citizens of the Reich’ coup plot

Germany Arrests Dozens Accused Of Plotting To Overthrow Government

And last and by no means least, Bernard Grover's take on the restoration of royal symbolisms, and one of my "takes":

Royals, Reich or Wrong: One step over the bloodline

Rather than reviewing and commenting on quotations from these articles as is my usual practice, I want to jump right into my high octane speculations as these will more or less provide a summary of the articles' contents. The first thing that I suspect one must notice is the timing of this event. Increasingly I do not view the occurrence of events in isolation. My inclination is to assume their interconnectedness until proven otherwise, and while I realize this assumption contains its own methodological risks of massive misinterpretation, I think events of the past few years warrant such an approach; in the end, it saves a massive amount of time from having to argue for that assumption and then to argue a set of interpretations on its basis. We simply assume it, and proceed directly to the interpretations that it seems to imply.

Having done so, we notice several things about the timing: (1) it occurs after the death of Queen Elizabeth II and the accession of King Charles III in Great Britain and after several changes of government in that country; (2) it occurs concurrently with German Chancellor Scholz announcing a massive overhaul of German defense policy and posture, an overhaul that, let it be noted, appears also to be an economic and industrial stimulus package for German industry suffering under collapse of demand: when demand is needed for heavy industry, look to military expenditure; (3) it occurs when the USSA has embroiled itself and its European colonies and satrapies in a useless and dangerous war in the Ukraine, and after years of American promise-breaking and meddling with respect to that country and Russia; (4) it occurs when China is stepping up its pressure to woo American allies away from the West (think of Mr. Xi's recent trip to the Saudis), and finally (5) it occurs concurrently with German police also discovering two "moving" Chinese "police stations" in that country. The last time I looked, such extra-territorial jurisdictional exercise was frowned on in international law (except of course, for the USSA, which insists its citizens must continue to pay American taxes even if they live overseas...go figure). Finally, the event occurs concurrently with the ongoing financial and economic weakness of Europe, the EU, the European Central Bank, and of course, the whole FTX Bankman-Fraud Bankman-Fried scandal, which of course involves the Ukraine and thereby affects European security.

I belabor the timing aspect of the event because, amid some attempts of western media to downplay the significance of the coup plot, and to emphasize German "hysteria" and so on (the BBC for example), the plain fact of the matter is that the timing indicates that the plot was a serious effort, not merely the plaything of a disgruntled and elderly European royal. Rest assured, had a similar event occurred in France or Italy or Austria to restore the Bourbons, or the Hapsburgs, or the Savoys, it would have been taken very seriously. This is not, in my opinion, hysteria on the part of the German government. In fact, as news continues to develop, we're informed that there were arrests in Austria and Italy as well, making one wonder why anyone from those countries would be involved in a German Putsch. We'll get back to that in a moment.

It's that word Putsch that I want to discuss for a moment. Coups d'etat are risky affairs, and more often fail than succeed, especially in a country like Germany where the government is "muscular", which is a nice way of saying that if you want to have a bad day, just cross a German policeman. Coups are not known as being all that successful in Germany. In fact, off the top of my head, I can't really think of any, except perhaps one, and it doesn't really qualify as a coup d'etat, and that was the collapse of Wilhelm II's support (and Quartermaster-General Erich Ludendorff's support) in the German General Staff in late 1918 that led to Wilhelm's abdication and self-exile in the Netherlands. Otherwise, coups in Germany have had a track record of colossal failure: the 1923 Beer Hall Putsch in Bavaria? Failure. The 1950s Naumann coup against Adenauer? Failure. The July 1944 Bomb Plot and Coup attempt against Hitler? Failure. The 1938 Generals' plot? That one didn't even get off the ground. So I'm not surprised that this one failed. If you think surveillance in the modern USSA is bad, you haven't been dealing with the BVD or BKA or BND lately, and trust me, they listen to everything in Germany, and always have.

What I'm more intrigued by is a question looming over all of this, that I have not yet seen be asked nor answered: given the size of this apparent conspiracy, why was no action taken earlier either by the plotters or by police? There is, in other words, something about the aspect of timing that we're not being told. Did the German security services delay a round up until they had more or less the complete outlines of the conspiracy? Or were they in fact forced to move ahead of schedule? I ask these questions, and particularly the last one, because if you followed the news reporting, the narrative seemed to subtly shift from royals wanting to reinstall an 1880s style imperial German monarchy, presumably with Prince Heinrich XIII as Kaiser und Koenig, to a group of "ultra-right" people with MAGA and Trump-like pretensions, a characterization that seems to me, on the surface, to be ludicrous because in all my years of dealing with Germans from boyhood until now, I've never met a single one on the left or right that even remotely resembles the American right wing Republican! My point is, the narrative shifted a bit, but for the moment, it appears the media is sticking with the royalist plot narrative.

And here is precisely where getting a handle on this story gets "prickly". We're being told that this was all about restoring some version of the old Second Reich, the imperial German Kaiserreich of 1871-1918. Why then were Austrians and Italians involved? Neither Austria, nor the Austrian Tyrol, were parts of the Second Reich. Nor is the family of Heinrich XIII the royal and imperial family of that Kaiserreich. THat family is, of course, the Von Hohenzollerns, and its current head, Prince Georg Friedrich von Hohenzollern und Preussen is very much alive and kicking. So, for that matter, is the revival of symbols of the old Kaiserreich in modern Germany (see my articles THINGS (OR RATHER PEOPLE) THAT MAKE YOU GO "HMMM...": THE HOHENZOLLERNS and CULTURE CORNER: THE KAISER'S CASTLE AND THE GOOSESTEP). The only time Austria and large portions of Italy were part of the Reich was under the First Reich, or Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. That may be a clue as to the ultimate aim and designs of the coup plotters, I do not know, for certainly many German royal families, including the Hohenzollerns, held the right of electors of the Holy Roman Emperors. After all, a "revived Roman Empire" is very much a part of the "dispensensationalist" template that I have long believed informs Mr. Globalooney's plans.

In short, my friend Bernard Grover in his article that I've linked above, has adequately outlined my (and my friend's) private discussions about a possible scenario of the "return of the royals", and I indeed think that this is a possibility in play. What Mr. Grover has done is to expand the context to include the royal and imperial houses of Asia as well, and while we're discussing the return of royal and imperial symbolism, do not forget that the ceremony of the installation of the Emperor Naruhito of Japan was broadcast on television just a few years ago. Could we indeed, as Mr. Grover summarizes this speculation, be looking at a "restoration" scenario:

With the increased use of royal symbols, the decay of democracy, and the rumblings of a return to bloodlines, are we seeing a move towards regional if not a global monarchy? Could the perceived gangland wars - by me and others - be the royal houses re-establishing territories, and even settling who gets to run the planet? Are we seeing the rise of the Fourth Reich, or return of the Second Reich? Did monarchy come to an end in the 20th century, or did they just let us run free until we made a (ahem) royal mess of things?

Assuming the rise of the royals explains many things - the all-out attack on the middle class, the moral and ethical decay of secular democracies, and the global desire for beneficent if not benign leadership.

It also explains the incessant expansion of Socialism. Socialism, after all, is defined by State ownership of everything, and once in place, is easily transferred to a royal bloodline - especially one with established roots and “rightful” claims. Ownership of everything by a single individual defines monarchy.

It would explain the push for absolute dependence on the State, from cradle to grave, much like the feudal peasants of yore. After all, if all property and sovereignty are vested in the monarch, doesn’t that mean we will “own nothing and be happy”? Isn’t that essentially the defining characteristic of a “subject” to the crown?

Indeed, is Mr. Xi's quest for "lifetime" appointments but a clever disguise for bringing back the Han Emperors? Are we looking at the attempt to create (twelve?) regional kingdoms held together by a global Imperator Rex? Again, possibly. Time will tell as we learn more about this story, but don't expect the media to cover it. I rather suspect the story will be quickly buried, and forgotten. But if this view of the possible scenario is correct, it needs to be followed closely. If I hear or obtain any information, I'll keep everyone posted.

The second possibility here is equally plausible, and that it that this story is one big distraction, using a very real (and apparently amateurish) coup plot as a crisis of opportunity, and that the real goal here is - like the Reichstag fire - to create a false flag to allow a declaration of emergency, and a crackdown on internal opposition, for whatever reason, though again, here, Herr Scholz's recent calls for a much more muscular German military and foreign policy provide one possible connecting motivation.

The bottom line: regardless of which of these two views, or anywhere on the spectrum between them, that one lies, I view this story as being very significant, and one to watch closely. Not only that, but I also view it as further confirmation of that speculation I and my friend have entertained in private conversation, that the royals are fed up, and may be privately entertaining the possibility of a return to the visible and direct, rather than hidden and remote, exercise of power.

See you on the flip side...

Joseph P. Farrell

This article makes me wonder if we haven't seen Group A just eliminate Group B as contenders for German leadership after the Great Reset?

Interesting that just as the stabilizing influence of Queen Victoria was lost in her passing, the royal families of Europe started fighting for power. Now with Queen Elizabeth's passing it looks like the royal families of Europe are starting to fight for power again.

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

This article makes me wonder if we haven't seen Group A just eliminate Group B as contenders for German leadership after the Great Reset?

Interesting that just as the stabilizing influence of Queen Victoria was lost in her passing, the royal families of Europe started fighting for power. Now with Queen Elizabeth's passing it looks like the royal families of Europe are starting to fight for power again.

There are some breakaway regions in germany of folks fed up with the bs corrupt government. Fallout from the military take over after the fall of the third reich