Generator observation

[TJA]

I was out at an event this past weekend and was running my little Coleman 1850 for a little while. It is a very noisy generator, nice size for small stuff and comfortably portable but the noise can get on your nerves. While I like my Coleman it's really unsuitable for many situations.

I walked past one of the event vendors who had a Honda 3000 and you could barely hear it 20 feet away, at 50 feet the sound it made completely disappeared into the background noise. I'm pretty sure it was the Honda EU300is. I was stunned at how quiet it was. Anyone looking into generators should definitely give these a look. Unfortunately I don't think they've got a diesel version at this time so they're unsuitable for a long term emergency but if noise is a big concern I would seriously consider one of these.

 

[Dennis Olson]

The biggest issue on the cheap generators is the little tin "mufflers" they have. These actually do NOTHING to muffle the sound. Get a small automobile muffler and some metal flex-pipe and adapters. Mount the bigger muffler on the little genny. You'll be amazed....

 

[lgsracer]

Check out KIPOR they have both diesel and gasoline, quite models.

http://www.kipor.com/prouducts.asp

 

[atropa]

I would like to buy one but not really expensive. What would be the smallest number of wattage you could get away with for basic functions?

 

[yakjax]

The biggest issue on the cheap generators is the little tin "mufflers" they have. These actually do NOTHING to muffle the sound. Get a small automobile muffler and some metal flex-pipe and adapters. Mount the bigger muffler on the little genny. You'll be amazed....

I've heard of this before but wouldn't it cause damaging back pressure? Have you actually tried this yourself? If so, would you please elaborate on parts & how you did it. I too have a very noisy Coleman 1850.

Thanks much...

 

[Dennis Olson]

Backpressure is a non-issue in a LARGER muffler. I didn't end up with a small one. I DID study generator issues intensely for six months prior to buying my big one. (Anyone still remember "The Juice Page"? )

And Atropa, you'd have to define "basic functions". Also, how lo0ng would you want to run it for at a time? (4 hours, 12 houres, etc...)

 

[atropa]

Basic functions for me would probably be a washing machine, lights for a couple of hours a day maybe, tv or computer every once in a while, etc. It's hard to put myself in that situation in my mind, so it's a little hard to define. Maybe it could run somewhere between 4-8 hours?

 

[Dennis Olson]

Now you need to determine the absolute MAXIMUM you can afford to pay for one, regardless of its duties. Got a $-number?

 

[atropa]

Maybe $500 tops.

 

[Dennis Olson]

At $500 you can get one of the inexpensive Coleman units. You should buy the absolute highest rated unit you can afford (5000w is a good starting point).

The problem is that owning and operating a "non-permanenet-install" generator is a complex task. I'm talking about the kind you run extension cords to. There are many, MANY threads on TB about generators. Satanta's is one of the best. There is a great deal of research necessary to understand them properly, to a point where you won't burn down your house or electrocute yourself.

Every winter, you see stories about how some Asian immigrants suffocated in their home because they tried to heat it with charcoal, not knowing that burning charcoal creates massive amounts of CO. So their ignorance killed them.

The same is true for owning a generator. Learn FIRST, then buy and use.

Note: Spending less than about $1500 pretty much guarantees an inferior unit. What's your life worth in an extended power outage....?

JMHO....

 

[6ftofun]

Thanks for this post, was thinking of posting my Honda gen question as well. Family swears by them for quiet, ignition start and fuel economy. I am in an upstairs condo in hurricane alley. The noise from neighbor's generators when power is out is obnoxious. Also, lifting/moving is a problem-I am alone and have a "bionic" back-want something on wheels to get it outdoors easily. Looking toward the Honda for the reasons above and budget is about 1K. Would like to power fridge, lights, computer, the usual, possibly a 110 AC unit-Jumping in here although have not done much research yet-all suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Dennis Olson]

One of our most comprehensive generator threads:

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?t=98461

 

[TJA]

If I ever get down to 'generator' on 'The List' to supplant what I already have I want a diesel. This weekend was the first time I've ever seen one of the Honda's in action and I was quite literally stunned about how quiet it is.

For someone bugging in, for something like a hurricane that is looking for something quiet that doesn't mind using gas for something short term like power outages due to hurricane the quiet Honda's are probably the way to go. They're less likely to draw attention and aggravate the neighbors.

 

[John H]

The outlet to the muffler on a small generator (even a 5k one) is probably 3/4", so a car muffler with an input and output pipe of about 2" is not going to add back-pressure. In fact, it will likely be much less than the original muffler. Remember, you are going from a small outlet immediately into a larger pipe.

If you take a flat car muffler apart there is an input pipe the length of the muffler on one side with small holes and an output pipe the length of the muffler on the other side with small holes. There may also be a third pipe with small holes in the middle. Any internal openings in the muffler must add up to at least the size of the input and output pipes or the car would have a lot of back-pressure too. I'm talking about a normal car muffler, not one stuffed with some sound absorbing or tuning material.

John H

 

[6ftofun]

Cool-thanks-now I have no excuses

 

[BaywaterRoss]

I have a buddy from work who did the generator research thing for his own circumstance. We're in Florida, so freezing to death isn't an issue. He did his research after the hurricane season of 2004.

It all boiled down to this: what are you trying to save?

In his case, it was food in the deep freezer, plus his saltwater fish tanks. He has something like 6 months of dry goods on hand, along with plenty of water, so he wasn't worried about having those. His primary concern was losing what was in his big freezer, plus his tropical fish tanks.

His research yielded a surprising result. He needed a 7.5kw genny to be effective for his needs. According to his figures, the cost of running the genny just 4 or 5 days, depending on fuel costs, would be greater than the combined loss of all his frozen food, plus his fish and coral. And that didn't even include the cost of the generator!

He opted not to buy one. It simply wasn't cost effective.

Even without power, he's able to keep the food in his deep freezer (chest type) frozen solid for 2 full days. After that, things start to thaw.

So when doing your research, remember to add up all the costs as well.

 

[Dennis Olson]

BWR - great observation.

Up here, freezing to death IS an issue. So are having all your pipes freeze and rupture. So for us, the ability to survive in relative comfort frumps the fuel cost. Plus, we still have our original 500 gallons of propane, bought @ 65:cent: a gallon in 1999. In the winter, that'd probably be enough to last a month or more with cautious non-24/7 use.

In truth, each person's needs will be different. For someone who needs 24/7 electricity for life-support, fuel cost is not an issue. Survival is...

 

[atropa]

His research yielded a surprising result. He needed a 7.5kw genny to be effective for his needs. According to his figures, the cost of running the genny just 4 or 5 days, depending on fuel costs, would be greater than the combined loss of all his frozen food, plus his fish and coral. And that didn't even include the cost of the generator!

That's something to think about as well. And thanks Dennis, for your advice. I wish I had skills like my Dad, he could probably piece on together from the ground up. Maybe I should see about buying a used one and having him fix it up.

 

[buttie]

An automotive muffler will not quiet down your common 8-10HP Briggs found on 4-6 kw low end generators. Been there done that and have the teeshirt. I used to manufacturer mobile video trucks and trailers that were generator powered.

If you want to reduce the sound of a cheap generator plan to put it in a "dog house" with baffled air inlets to reduce the sound. Or buy a quality generator like a Honda that will last you about 10x as long and cost less in the long run. The lower the RPM the longer they will run until you get to a 650 rpm diesel beast like mine. I don't have to worry about anyone stealing this in the middle of the night either.

 

[BornFree]

Coleman used to make a really small generator with an ouput of only something like 750 watts. They called it "Whisper Quiet". And they really were super quiet. Basically no exaust noise at all. I have not seen them around in modern days...so I don't know if they make them anymore.

 

[mbabulldog]

I have the Honda unit you speak of, and let me tell you, I've run it at deer camp, and past 50 feet, you really have to listen to hear it. Additionally, they have a power management function that increases RPM's depending on the current load, and a built-in inverter.

My only wish is that it was diesel, but I'm still very happy with it.

 

[Green Co.]

My experiences after the last hurricane...I have an older Coleman 1750 watt (looks just like the newer 1850's) that would run the refrigerator & 6000 btu window a/c (seperately) ok, but faltered on starting the large 21CF freezers. I also have a 8kw Onan that I ran for that or other high power needs. I never ran either genset full time, only a few hrs a day. Both are noisy. The Coleman would run 7 hrs on 1.5 gallons, the Onan (20 hp) ran only 8 hrs on 8 gallons.

I built a little power unit, two deep cycle batteries, mounted on a small dollie, with a 500 watt inverter. This would power my lap-top, a 20" box fan, & a 13" TV for approx 28 hrs. Charging the batteries was accomplished when I ran either generator, or from the truck with jumper cables.

I was looking for a Honda 3000i for the clean power, plus it should meet my minimal needs. But, I ran across a Yamaha 2800i that impressed me with it's quiet-ness. I may just get it by weeks end.

 

[Double_A]

I was talking to a friend at an outdoor event, holding a normal conversation when I noticed a HONDA EU2000 3 feet away. They had taken one of those heavey concrete trash cans put a piece of plywood on it and set the generator on that, it was about 4 feet above the ground and you could hold a normal conversation three feet away. I was absolutely floored, it was so quiet.

Generators are magnets for bad people in a disaster, most can be heard from a block away.

The only small portable I would consider is the Honda EU2000.

 

[Chronicles]

I have purchased a cheapo, SPEEDWAY 1000W for $40 dollars. It needs a brand new pull start assembly, and I can not find a source for the part..

Anyone know where I can ?


Also I live way back in the woods, so it would not likely be heard running if I need to run a saw, and pump.

 

[Mongoose333]

A 2000 watt generator will power a 55 amp battery charger which will charge a fair size battery bank fairly quickly. Then inverter to get 120 volt. Generators alone are short term solution. Have been off grid for 10 years with small system. Under $4,000.00 invested. Use desktop 6 to 8 hours a day selling on ebay. watch tv or dvd 2 to 3 hours a night listen to radio all day works out fine although would like to have more than my 2 solar panels.