PREP For those who prepositioned supplies with relatives and friends....

[Old Gray Mare]

For those who prepositioned supplies with relatives and friends....

For those who pre-positioned supplies with relative, especially elderly relatives living on fixed incomes and friends, this is a recent personal experience. I had given an elderly relative a SHTF container. Basically containing enough food to keep an adult alive for a month. It was just the basics and it all fit nicely into one of those plastic Tupper Ware tubs. Recently I went for a visit, bringing a few additions to the box only to find there was not much left in it. There was a container of dish soap and some hand soap and not much else. I had shared my belief that hard times were coming and that I loved them and I wanted them to have a little extra just in case. What I did not realize was that hard times are already here.

My point being that if you have prepositioned supplies it might be a good idea to do a physical inventory now and again. Reassess how dependent you would be on those supplies in an actual emergency and how vulnerable are they, human nature being what it is?

I think this about what went into the original box:
Breakfast
1 - large container powered Tang
2 - containers of Quaker Oatmeal
1 - box of dried milk
1 - Box Bisquick
1 - container of multivitamins

Lunch
1 - jar PB
1 - jar jelly
2 - sleeves rice crackers
1 - Box tea bags
Cans of condensed Campbell's Soup (forget how many)

Dinner
I - 1 Gallon jar mixed beans
1 - 1 gallon jar dried rice
1 - pint jar of bouillon cubes
1 - Quart jar of dehydrated mixed vegetables
1 - container of cooking oil
10 +/- - cans of tuna
3 or 4 canned hams

Miscellanies:
1 - Quart jar sea salt
1 - container of dish soap
Hand soap - a few bars
TP - 1 or 2 rolls - obligatory in any SHTF kit
1 - roll paper towels

 

[tm1439m]

Overall there was not that much invested in that box. However if they knew and understood what the meaning behind the box was and then emptied it knowing you may be coming there some day expecting it to be there then regardless of their need it was a selfish and irresponsible act on their part. Using it because they needed it is OK but only if they informed you that you no longer had it to fall back on should you decide to bug out to their location in a disaster or emergency. Using it and not telling you is unacceptable IMO.

That kind of behavior makes me think they could not fully be trusted in a serious situation. They show a lack of responsibility or moral value.

 

[Old Gray Mare]

TM this is a close blood relative. They were told what the supplies were intended for and I did use some Catholic guilt to encourage them to allow me to store it at their home. Right now I'm a little conflicted. I love this person and am wondering if it is a case of them needing the supplies because their fixed income is not covering inflating food prices or do they just not care and this is their way of getting rid of what they see as an imposition? We are talking about a proud old school lady who would never admit to either being the case.

The other issue being that as you say there "was not much invested in that box", if this little bit was not safe it is obvious to me that this is not a safe place to leave any valuable supplies cashed. I may use this as a test if I decide to cash supplies with others. Provide a small cashe and check it again after a few months and see what if anything is left.

 

[prepgirl44]

My experience is that the elderly are really not even "getting by" these days, so I would not be surprised at all if she needed to access the stuff.

But then again, could memory/cognitive problems have caused her to forget the purpose of the box and therefore she was accessing it for convenience sake?

Either way, this is a good example of the need to check on folks with whom you have prepositioned supplies...financial times are hard for everyone, but certainly so for the elderly (who in my experience would be the least likely to touch unless in desperation).

 

[tm1439m]

I understand what you are saying. However I could never take anything that was not mine without first asking. If I needed it badly enough I would call and say"hey i am hungry, bad hungry, can we please eat this oatmeal?"

To just take it and not even tell you is just beyond me. I am a stickler for doing what is right in all cases and have a hard time when people take what is not theirs without asking. Pride should not trump responsibility and when you may think you still have something that does not exist as a result of them they broke trust. Their pride or whatever driving force it is is more important to them than your well being.

 

[m.anderson]

I have a aunt on SS,her take home pay is $800.00 per month.
The only way she makes is because my dad paid off her house.
Hard times have been here for awhile.

 

[Old Gray Mare]

I understand what you are saying. However I could never take anything that was not mine without first asking. If I needed it badly enough I would call and say"hey i am hungry, bad hungry, can we please eat this oatmeal?"

If I was anyone other than "family" my guess is she probably would make that call. Being "family" I believe the expectation is that I would not mind as it is the responsibility of the younger generation in our family to take care of the older one. It is what it is. I plan to refill the box with no expectations of actually using it for myself or immediate family. My hope is that by sharing this experience others may avoid a potentially nasty surprise.

 

[summerthyme]

I dunno... you wrote:

I had shared my belief that hard times were coming and that I loved them and I wanted them to have a little extra just in case. What I did not realize was that hard times are already here.

This doesn't sound like "I think hard times may be coming and I might need to bug out to your house, so I'm storing some food with you so I won't be a burden"

If someone had given me a Tupperware container full of basic foodstuffs and said "I love you and want to be sure you have enough" (My translation of what you told her) I wouldn't feel guilty about taking any of the contents if things were tight and I didn't have the money to spend on a grocery run.

I suspect she IS having harder times (heck, how can anyone on a fixed income NOT be having trouble these days?!) and in that case, if your intent is to be sure she doesn't go hungry, *as long as it's not a burden on YOUR finances*, you may want to consider restocking it every couple months.

Pre-caching food or supplies for your OWN use is something else, and I'd have to make it very clear why I was doing that (and have good enough communications with those who are storing it for me so I KNEW they wouldn't decide it was "in the way" and dump or donate it). That's a completely different deal, and not many have that level of trust in many relationships.

Summerthyme

 

[Old Gray Mare]

This doesn't sound like "I think hard times may be coming and I might need to bug out to your house, so I'm storing some food with you so I won't be a burden"

Summerthyme

Summer that line was almost verbatim the Catholic guilt I laid on them to get the box stored there. The only part you missed was the "for the children."

 

[tm1439m]

Old gray mare sorry I did not catch that the stuff was by you for their possible needs. That makes things a little better in my personal view. I would still want to know if they were depleting it. But I see what you are doing which is a good thing.

 

[ShadowMan]

Many elderly are too prideful or perhaps more likely actually ashamed that they are struggling during this time in their lives. I wouldn't take it too personal until you do a little more investigating. The current elderly generation grew up during the Depression and WWII. That was a different world back then when taking handouts was considered a personal failure. It's difficult for them to actually ask for help. Heck it's difficult for them to accept help that is willingly given. So have a little compassion and patience when dealing with your relative.

For example: FIL has always been a strong, capable, hard-working, salt of the earth, man throughout his entire life until just recently. Now 86, with Parkinson's, COPD, failing knees, circulation difficulties and a stroke survivor from last January he is suddenly very frail, frustrated, and seriously depressed. I totally understand his situation and am doing everything that I can to bolster his spirits and sympathize with his situation. I realize that one day I will be there....old and failing physical abilities. He's a good man and deserves compassion and understanding. FWIW.

 

[naturallysweet]

Next time bring 3 boxes.

One like the one that you brought over before. The second should have a good combination lock on it.

The third should be emptied straight into their cupboards for them to use now.

 

[summerthyme]

Hmmm...
Well, I'm confused, so maybe she was/is, too! Either way, unless she's donating the stuff to a shelter or food pantry, it's likely it's being used because she needs it. For sure, I've noticed that (oddly, given that most of them either grew up during the Depression or at least heard horror stories from other relatives) "prepping"- as in, buying food ahead of when it will be needed by more than a few days- is a very foreign concept to many elders. I think for some it's like the old joke; "at my age, I don't even buy green bananas!!" Others are horrified at the idea of "waste", and since most of them believe that the "use by" date is OFFICIAL and food must be dumped the day afterwards, they don't buy anything that won't get used up.

You're just going to have to go with your instincts... try to listen to anything she's saying "between the lines". If she's grumbling at all about the box being "in the way" or maybe about "clutter" in general in the home, maybe she does feel it's a burden and is trying to get you to take it back. I doubt it, though...

Summerthyme

 

[Old Gray Mare]

Next time bring 3 boxes.

One like the one that you brought over before. The second should have a good combination lock on it.

The third should be emptied straight into their cupboards for them to use now.

I like the way you think.

 

[BooBooKitty]

Originally Posted by naturallysweet
"Next time bring 3 boxes.

One like the one that you brought over before. The second should have a good combination lock on it.

The third should be emptied straight into their cupboards for them to use now."


I agree with this. I too have a couple of proud great aunts and if this was the situation I know I would feel like I needed to help them out now. I would explain that I'm willing to help them with some groceries from time to time but the new boxes are not to be touched. I would also not give my charity in the form of cash because they both have children in their 40's that still beg for $$ from these aunts living on ssi. Just make a run to Sam's or Costco and make 3 or 4 of these boxes and put them in other locations just to be safe. I have had great luck with a $20 dollar a month storage unit close to my BOL and then there is no access to it from anyone. Just remember.... "Don't put all of your eggs in one basket."

 

[Double_A]

Next time bring 3 boxes.

One like the one that you brought over before. The second should have a good combination lock on it.

The third should be emptied straight into their cupboards for them to use now.

Best response.

 

[Kathy in FL]

I tried to do the same thing and was even willing to just assume it might not be there. I figured 2 five gallon buckets of emergency stuff ... well, no skin off my nose if they needed it at some point and no harm no foul.

Well, what I found out made me rethink doing this ... they donated the supplies to one of their relatives (unrelated to me though I'm related to them. I suppose this person could have been considered a shirt tail cousin but not blood if you of southern descent catch my meaning.

This other person is a loose screw ... they'll buy beer before they'll buy their kids milk, they'll by cigs before they'll pay for something their kids need for school, that sort of thing. They are not the type of people I would have ever put anything aside for.

To say I was hacked was putting it mildly. Got over it pretty quick since I'd pretty much done it without really needing to do it and was not hurt by the "loss" but it gave me some serious heartburn and I did some hard thinking.

I didn't have a problem if the person that I had stored the stuff with/for had used the stuff. I was not happy that they broke my trust and "donated" it to this other person rather than take from their own cabinetry for that purpose; especailly without discussing the action with me first. Apparently since it was just sitting around and they didn't want it to spoil - yeah, right since it was all long term storables - they didn't see the problem with it being my personal outgoing asset since I "have so much to spare." I don't know if they were manipulated or not but I suspect not, they just made an assumption that I didn't need it since I wasn't keeping it under my own personal roof.

I lost a lot of trust right there in that particular plan. Not only in having a cache of any size for my family's use but being able to cache food for someone else at their household when they are unable/unwilling to do it for themselves to begin with.

I decided right then and there that I'm not FEMA nor will I play at it. I'm putting back for our immediate family, my parents, my brother (but not my nephews who are grown and on their own), and I'll build in some cushion for possible use for other charity issues. But I'm not telling anyone that ... I don't want to be like the government and have people think they can have expectations of dependency on me. Too many ways for that to get messed up.

 

[WVtreehanger]

Could be they intended to restock it when opportunity presented but opportunity had yet to present.

 

[NovaChickee]

Naturallysweet -

I, too, like your thinking!

 

[Dozdoats]

I had shared my belief that hard times were coming and that I loved them and I wanted them to have a little extra just in case. What I did not realize was that hard times are already here.

Well, there ya go. Hard times ARE here, for a lot of people. Apparently, for them too. And good for you for looking out for them!

We've been saving up for a rainy day for a long time, here at our house. And as far as I can tell, it's raining NOW.

 

[fish hook]

A few years ago,when i still had a few extra dollars,i bought about a year supply for two and took it to my mom's.I told them,mom and step dad,that it was for hard times that i thought were very near.In about a year i thought i would check it out and see if anything needed replacing.I was very discouraged to find an empty closet where the food had been.They had not bought groceries for a year,and were back to normal,going out every day to get enough for that day.They both wanted to know if i would do it again that year,i had to tell them that the money tree had died.

 

[summerthyme]

I lost a lot of trust right there in that particular plan. Not only in having a cache of any size for my family's use but being able to cache food for someone else at their household when they are unable/unwilling to do it for themselves to begin with.

That IS the problem. IF the household where you are caching supplies are already prepped for themselves, it will work. For ANYone else, well... the mindset simply isn't there! And as we've observed over many years, in all sorts of ways (everything from never "giving away" puppies- ALWAYS charge something, to only giving garden produce to those willing to come and pick it)- if they don't have any skin in the game, they simply don't value it.

Exceptions would be elderly and TRULY disabled. But even then, being able to trust that something you left someplace, planning on using it "if needed" is likely going to be a crap shoot, with limited exceptions. Too many elderly have younger, able bodied relatives who constantly leech off them- if it's a choice between giving them some "survival foods" someone left at their house, or delving into their own limited pantries (OR telling them "sorry, I can't help")- well, you know what they'll do.

Summerthyme

 

[Old Gray Mare]

Just make a run to Sam's or Costco and make 3 or 4 of these boxes and put them in other locations just to be safe. I have had great luck with a $20 dollar a month storage unit close to my BOL and then there is no access to it from anyone. Just remember.... "Don't put all of your eggs in one basket."

If there is a financial collapse, civil unrest etc. how secure would a storage unit be? Opinions? I remember a story about a storage place that closed up shop during and after a major emergency. People could not get to their units to get generators and supplies. Do not want to go to that trouble and expense and watch it go down the tubes. Also I would want my relatives to have access to the supplies in case of emergency but don't want to hand them the key to the locker. Trust issues. If communications are down how would I let them know? Suggestions?

 

[WalknTrot]

Like somebody above said, most people (even those who lived through the Depression) have no clue about putting food aside for a rainy day. If food sits somewhere, it's going to waste.

I've even noticed with my parents (80's) who have farmed, canned, preserved and kept a good pantry all of their lives, that as they get older and older, they simply seem overwhelmed by any kind of a storage plan. And they are much less concerned with feeding themselves. Thank goodness they still have a big freezer, Mom continues to stash away some shelf-stable grocery store bargains, baking supplies, etc. and at least freezes extra produce from the garden and orchard.

Used to be that I always thought they were better prepped than we were. Not any more as far as food goes. Now I try to fill in the holes for them with what we keep here.

 

[Palmetto]

A few years ago,when i still had a few extra dollars,i bought about a year supply for two and took it to my mom's.I told them,mom and step dad,that it was for hard times that i thought were very near.In about a year i thought i would check it out and see if anything needed replacing.I was very discouraged to find an empty closet where the food had been.They had not bought groceries for a year,and were back to normal,going out every day to get enough for that day.They both wanted to know if i would do it again that year,i had to tell them that the money tree had died.

Wow, what a thread.

I had a silimar experience as above but with a twist. My dad has a friend who has been living in our hunting cabin for 20 years. He is a 73 y/o bachelor, doesn't spend a dime, inherited $2m in cash and 1500 acres from his father, and lives in our cabin for free.

I had Y2k supplies stored neatly on industial shelving in one of the two bedrooms since 99. While he only used some lemonade mix in those 10 years, I had to talk him out of useing the rest several times. He called me this spring and asked me to remove the supplies because he wanted to use that other room (remember our cabin.)

I figured the supplies would be safer somewhere else so I moved a 6x10 trailer full somewhere else.

As to the posts above, most people just don't get it.

Most can't imagine a day that trucks aren't running and grocery stores are not open.

Palmetto

 

[Tennessee gal]

Wow, what a thread.

I had a silimar experience as above but with a twist. My dad has a friend who has been living in our hunting cabin for 20 years. He is a 73 y/o bachelor, doesn't spend a dime, inherited $2m in cash and 1500 acres from his father, and lives in our cabin for free.

I had Y2k supplies stored neatly on industial shelving in one of the two bedrooms since 99. While he only used some lemonade mix in those 10 years, he called me this spring and asked me to remove the supplies because he wanted to use that other room (remember our cabin.)

I figured the supplies would be safer somewhere else so I moved a 6x10 trailer full somewhere else.

As to the posts above, most people just don't get it.

Most can't imagine a day that trucks aren't running and grocery stores are not open.

Palmetto

Palmetto, I think someone should start charging him rent. Talk about being ungrateful!

 

[Palmetto]

My dad has a heart the size of Texas. His lifelong friend is a good guy but as eccentric as you can possibly imagine. He is a retired college prof.

This man lived with his aging grandmother to take care of her for 20 years before he started living in our cabin. He is a solid guy.

You are right, but it isn't my cabin.

 

[Grammytomany]

Naturally Sweet is right as far as I can see. Don't leave food in anyone's home unless you are GIVING it to them to use whenever they want. We are the elderly ones in our family, but we have a good assessment about what may be coming, so we have given (to use) to our children those special military boxes of food to last couples for three plus months and told them why. We also give to all of them when we know they are having a hard time. Hubby and I wouldn't ask from any of them though if we were starving. We live on SS but "save" every dime that we can. We eat as well as we can with the buget that I allow us to have. It is very, very difficult tho'. So, your family member may be having the very same problem. She won't ask for your help but obviously thought you were being helpful and compassionate without "asking if they were having hard times". That would be a no no to our generation I think. So, please keep helping when you feel you are able to give. I am sure they appreciate your help and love.

 

[Straycat]

If there is a financial collapse, civil unrest etc. how secure would a storage unit be? Opinions? I remember a story about a storage place that closed up shop during and after a major emergency. People could not get to their units to get generators and supplies. Do not want to go to that trouble and expense and watch it go down the tubes. Also I would want my relatives to have access to the supplies in case of emergency but don't want to hand them the key to the locker. Trust issues. If communications are down how would I let them know? Suggestions?

Sadly, I think what it comes down to is that you'll either have to store all the supplies yourself and dole them out in an emergency, or you won't have any supplies to give them at all. I also wouldn't let them know ahead of time or they'll expect to be given things now, whenever they want them.

And no, storage units are not really secure. I've known people who had storage units with good locks, in fenced facilities, and thieves still managed to break into the facility and destroy steel doors to get at the goodies that were locked away. If you aren't physically there to protect it, you can't depend on it being safe. That includes whether you stash it with others or lock it in a storage unit.

Summerthyme is right about charging - people don't truly value what they get for free; they only start to value it when they had to pay something for it in either money or labor. What's more, once you start giving them access to things they didn't pay for, they'll start to expect it and take it for granted that you'll give them stuff. It seems to be a common part of human nature in a lot of people.

 

[paul d]

I've taken some buckets to my folks. They reluctantly let them sit in the corner of the basement. They'd be hard pressed to use them and even harder pressed to admit to it, but it's there if they need it.

 

[Tennessee gal]

My husband and I grew up with parents that remembered the Depression and even until old age they kepted well stocked pantries.
I think your elderly family member may have really needed the stash to get by. Any way I would give her the benefit of the dought. I would go with Naturallysweet's advice.

 

[TerryK]

Trying to store food and or supplies in someone's house who isn't a prepper is a waste of time and usually ends up pissing both parties off.
Give them food if you can afford it, but don't expect them to suddenly adapt the prepper mindset if they don't already have it.

 

[Bobga]

Well, time to toss in one of my very rare comments (should do more often I know). If all goes well, I will be 80 early next year. I have stocks of supplies which will very likely outlast me. (no I don't plan on croaking real soon). I find that younger people are apt to be the ones that just ignore the situation around here. I have grains, dried foods, home canned foods (been doing that for years), an commercial canned meats and vegetables as well. Able to cook and bake without all the modern conveniences if need be. Also seem to be considered a bit of a weirdo by some family members who stock maybe two shelves in their pantry as backup.... sigh.... interesting times are on the horizon.... there are NO correct answers I fear....

Bobga

 

[packyderms_wife]

Wow, what a thread.

I had a silimar experience as above but with a twist. My dad has a friend who has been living in our hunting cabin for 20 years. He is a 73 y/o bachelor, doesn't spend a dime, inherited $2m in cash and 1500 acres from his father, and lives in our cabin for free.

I had Y2k supplies stored neatly on industial shelving in one of the two bedrooms since 99. While he only used some lemonade mix in those 10 years, I had to talk him out of useing the rest several times. He called me this spring and asked me to remove the supplies because he wanted to use that other room (remember our cabin.)

I figured the supplies would be safer somewhere else so I moved a 6x10 trailer full somewhere else.

As to the posts above, most people just don't get it.

Most can't imagine a day that trucks aren't running and grocery stores are not open.

Palmetto

depending on your state squatter laws dictate that that guy now owns that cabin!

K-

 

[Milk-maid]

The Kiwanis club in this town always does a family charity run for Christmas. Each member is encouraged to take a family or elderly person who is in need and ask them what they need. They are then given this as a gift.

One year we took a (nearly) blind woman who is trying to raise her grandson on her SS income. She was totally tapped out and told me that for Thanksgiving all they had to eat was a PB sandwich...no veggies, no milk..etc.
We not only gave her a whole $300 grocery run that same day for her immediate needs, a few weeks later we bought her all the fixings for a big Christmas dinner and a few gifts to give the 11 yr old boy (he needed shoes and a jacket.)

We found out later that all her relatives came and totally wiped her out of her food supplies after eating everything she had fixed for Christmas dinner. I just didn't know what to do. She said they were worse off than she was and now she was back to square one...no food for her and the boy.

We didn't give her more. We can't feed her and her whole extended family. How they could see her as a soft touch and take her food, is just beyond me. They were all younger people too.

 

[Bubble Head]

My husband and I grew up with parents that remembered the Depression and even until old age they kepted well stocked pantries.
I think your elderly family member may have really needed the stash to get by. Any way I would give her the benefit of the dought. I would go with Naturallysweet's advice.

I find this to be so true. Those that went through the depression can easily show us preppers a think or two. My grandmother could feed six people with a old soup bone, couple of eggs for home made noodles, and the rinse out of a ketchup jar for flavor. They are an amazing generation and fought a war in between. By the way I use to have a good recipe for good old army Hardtack. Can't find it. Should anyone have one please PM or post.

 

[Linda]

OGM, please consider this......

No matter WHAT the details re: the reason(s) for the contents of that tote being used, it was used and sustained her well being. You went through that trouble out of love for her. You may consider simply replenishing the supplies each month if your able as quietly as possible, without fanfare, so as not to fuel a sense of guilt , shame or embarrassment if it does exist within her.

One day you will stand before the Lord, and you will not have to wonder about the REASONS she used the supplies, it won't matter. The Lord will know what was in your heart, your intentions for looking out for her well being (even if it turns out you were being callously used).

THAT and the fact that you seek no recognition for your deeds here on earth (keeping the tote filled in a low key, almost silent manner) is ULTIMATELY all that will matter.

God Bless you and imagine what a world this would be if more people like you were in it.

 

[Tennessee gal]

OGM, please consider this......

No matter WHAT the details re: the reason(s) for the contents of that tote being used, it was used and sustained her well being. You went through that trouble out of love for her. You may consider simply replenishing the supplies each month if your able as quietly as possible, without fanfare, so as not to fuel a sense of guilt , shame or embarrassment if it does exist within her.

One day you will stand before the Lord, and you will not have to wonder about the REASONS she used the supplies, it won't matter. The Lord will know what was in your heart, your intentions for looking out for her well being (even if it turns out you were being callously used).

THAT and the fact that you seek no recognition for your deeds here on earth (keeping the tote filled in a low key, almost silent manner) is ULTIMATELY all that will matter.

God Bless you and imagine what a world this would be if more people like you were in it.

Great post Linda!

 

[naturallysweet]

The Kiwanis club in this town always does a family charity run for Christmas. Each member is encouraged to take a family or elderly person who is in need and ask them what they need. They are then given this as a gift.

One year we took a (nearly) blind woman who is trying to raise her grandson on her SS income. She was totally tapped out and told me that for Thanksgiving all they had to eat was a PB sandwich...no veggies, no milk..etc.
We not only gave her a whole $300 grocery run that same day for her immediate needs, a few weeks later we bought her all the fixings for a big Christmas dinner and a few gifts to give the 11 yr old boy (he needed shoes and a jacket.)

We found out later that all her relatives came and totally wiped her out of her food supplies after eating everything she had fixed for Christmas dinner. I just didn't know what to do. She said they were worse off than she was and now she was back to square one...no food for her and the boy.

We didn't give her more. We can't feed her and her whole extended family. How they could see her as a soft touch and take her food, is just beyond me. They were all younger people too.

Sounds like she had you pegged as someone who she could milk for money and groceries.

She probably got a good amount of food stamps and visited multiple food pantries. I really doubt they were totally without food, unless she was selling it all for drugs.

 

[OddOne]

We found out later that all her relatives came and totally wiped her out of her food supplies after eating everything she had fixed for Christmas dinner. I just didn't know what to do. She said they were worse off than she was and now she was back to square one...no food for her and the boy.

This is a lady that will be killed by her relatives when TSHTF. Her relatives will either kill her directly in an effort to get at anything she has, or indirectly by taking everything and leaving her to starve. Either way she's toast.