Contagion Flu - Cytokine Storm?

ShadowMan

Crusty ol' Codger
The MSM is reporting flu patients that go from just sick to suddenly dead in less than 24 hours due to what they are reporting as complications due to pneumonia. I'm wondering if what we're really seeing is flu victims dying from Cytokine Storms, much like folks did in the 1918 Spanish Influenza pandemic.

Has anyone here heard or read anything regarding the current flu outbreak and Cytokine Storms?
 

Hermantribe

Veteran Member
No proof, but I've wondered the same thing. A friend of my son's, 18 year old healthy male, died from the flu last night/this a.m. My son was told his friend's lungs were 90% compromised by fluid. They also told Garrett the hospital blew it. Of course, hospitals are overwhelmed right now. Maybe the family waited too long to go to the hospital? I don't know, but this, and other young males (I've seen news reports of 4, ages 10-20) are dying when they shouldn't be.
 

ShadowMan

Crusty ol' Codger
...lungs were 90% compromised by fluid.
:shkr:

WOW! That sure sounds like cytokine storm type symptoms to me!!

That is not good! If this garbage is turning into something triggering Cytokine Storm type symptoms we are seriously in deep deep doo-doo.
 

kyrsyan

Veteran Member
Around here people have been refusing to see the docs. I can understand their points but this flu just won't leave the lungs alone. When I got it my lungs were the first place it attacked. I had to immediately start using my nebulizer in order to keep my lungs clear.
The other problem is that docs don't want to prescribe antibiotics. It's the viral/bacterial thing. The problem is that this flu triggers a bacterial infection and if not treated quickly, it's dangerous. I knew who we caught the flu from and what they had been through so I insisted on antibiotics. When I explained it to the doc she didn't even argue. The result was that we didn't get the nasty bronchitis and pneumonia, although it was close. Like I said, this flu really goes for the lungs and it doesn't give up.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
The MSM is reporting flu patients that go from just sick to suddenly dead in less than 24 hours due to what they are reporting as complications due to pneumonia. I'm wondering if what we're really seeing is flu victims dying from Cytokine Storms, much like folks did in the 1918 Spanish Influenza pandemic.

Has anyone here heard or read anything regarding the current flu outbreak and Cytokine Storms?
If this is the case, and I have no solid evidence either way, then it's very unlikely this would be public knowledge at this point.
 

ShadowMan

Crusty ol' Codger
If this is the case, and I have no solid evidence either way, then it's very unlikely this would be public knowledge at this point.
Exactly. It's like it's being hinted at in the reporting, but just barely. Whether that is on purpose or not....it may be too early to tell. I wondered if I was the only one picking up these very subtle clues in the reporting, or lack of reporting, as tiny indications to a bigger issue.

I'm also very concerned that we don't get ANY international news on the MSM with what's going on around the world. We know that the UK and France have been hit hard and I've see a few mention of Australia as well. But then the MSM dosen't seem to have any time for REAL NEWS outside of their constant attack on Trump.

Hell you have to have nearly half the state of California burn down or a hurricane destroy half the Caribbean islands to get even a hint that there's something else happening in or around this country over what is going on in Washington D.C.!!:sht:
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
Exactly. It's like it's being hinted at in the reporting, but just barely. Whether that is on purpose or not....it may be too early to tell. I wondered if I was the only one picking up these very subtle clues in the reporting, or lack of reporting, as tiny indications to a bigger issue.

I'm also very concerned that we don't get ANY international news on the MSM with what's going on around the world. We know that the UK and France have been hit hard and I've see a few mention of Australia as well. But then the MSM dosen't seem to have any time for REAL NEWS outside of their constant attack on Trump.

Hell you have to have nearly half the state of California burn down or a hurricane destroy have the Caribbean to get even a hint that there's something else happening in this country other than what is going on in Washington D.C.!!:sht:
Regarding the news from overseas, there is an active effort on the part of U.S. based search engines to block results from 'unapproved' news. For the moment, you can still get around that, example;
https://www.georgianjournal.ge/
http://www.radio.cz/en
If it doesn't have the countries domain in the URL (example cases .cz, .ge) it's either filtered through MSM, or created somewhere by expats of those countries.

You can get around alphabet for the most part like this search string. '.cz news english'
Here is a list;
https://www.marcaria.com/ws/en/register/domains/domain-registration-multi-int?custom=International&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhLqGs4Xi2AIVTRuBCh0YoQ6xEAAYASABEgKykfD_BwE

Be aware that any English translation from a country whose native language is not English will be spin as well for the targeted audience of the west/English speaking countries

Bottom line is, for now it's still out there, but much more difficult to get to.
 

Hermantribe

Veteran Member
Around here people have been refusing to see the docs. I can understand their points but this flu just won't leave the lungs alone. When I got it my lungs were the first place it attacked. I had to immediately start using my nebulizer in order to keep my lungs clear.
The other problem is that docs don't want to prescribe antibiotics. It's the viral/bacterial thing. The problem is that this flu triggers a bacterial infection and if not treated quickly, it's dangerous. I knew who we caught the flu from and what they had been through so I insisted on antibiotics. When I explained it to the doc she didn't even argue. The result was that we didn't get the nasty bronchitis and pneumonia, although it was close. Like I said, this flu really goes for the lungs and it doesn't give up.
This is what happened to my 10 month old grandson. Fine at bedtime, felt bad in the morning. My daughter is very attuned to him, and took him to the doctor. Pneumonia! I was very surprised, but her husband's grandma is at the same house with bacterial pneumonia, and he could have gotten it from her.
 
Around here people have been refusing to see the docs. I can understand their points but this flu just won't leave the lungs alone. When I got it my lungs were the first place it attacked. I had to immediately start using my nebulizer in order to keep my lungs clear.
The other problem is that docs don't want to prescribe antibiotics. It's the viral/bacterial thing. The problem is that this flu triggers a bacterial infection and if not treated quickly, it's dangerous. I knew who we caught the flu from and what they had been through so I insisted on antibiotics. When I explained it to the doc she didn't even argue. The result was that we didn't get the nasty bronchitis and pneumonia, although it was close. Like I said, this flu really goes for the lungs and it doesn't give up.
What antibiotics were given?
 

kyrsyan

Veteran Member
What antibiotics were given?
For my son and I, Augmentin. For the friends, I don't know for sure. They both ended up on two different pricey ones that I was unfamiliar with. The one with double pneumonia also ended up with an antibiotic shot. Both of them also ended up being treated for chest wall muscle issues afterwards.
 

Deb Mc

Veteran Member
That's what I've been suspecting too, ShadowMan and Hermantribe. I'd be *very* interested in reading any autopsy summaries, if any are available. With sudden death like that, it seems to be paralleling some of the 1918 H1N1 symptoms.
 

Rayku

Sanity is not statistical
I'd only heard of this in passing before, but the more I dig into it, the more concerned I get. It might be wise to research the subject in detail.
 
For my son and I, Augmentin. For the friends, I don't know for sure. They both ended up on two different pricey ones that I was unfamiliar with. The one with double pneumonia also ended up with an antibiotic shot. Both of them also ended up being treated for chest wall muscle issues afterwards.
For those who would know, what would be an effective non-penicillin equivalent? Wife has allergy problems.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
For those who would know, what would be an effective non-penicillin equivalent? Wife has allergy problems.
For myself, i’ve Just started to add homemade colloidal silver at night, to start building it up in my system, also, elderberry plus sink lozenges. Along with the 22 other natural supplements i’m Already taking daily. Quercitin/bromeliad, and cinnemon in particular I would advise.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Sorry. No clue. My son has allergic reactions to most non penicillin meds.
Yes... really, this is one place where you CAN'T ask for internet advice! I would never dare even suggest a particular type of antibiotic to someone who has a *proven* allergy to penicillin. It used to be believed that there was significant risk of people being allergic to penicillin also reacting to cephalasporins (Keflex, etc), but that risk has now been downgraded, especially for the second generation cephalasporins and newer.

Google "cross sensitivity with penicillin" and do some reading. I don't know if this link will copy correctly... But it's an excellent PDF chart of various ABX and what else someone might react to if they are

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/Tools/ANTIBIOTIC%20CROSS-SENSITIVITY%20CHART.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj4oriJ2unYAhVOjK0KHTlUAi8QFjAMegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw1wY_DAiFaBD_kmLW8uN-Od

However... are you SURE your wife is truly allergic to the penicillins? If she had an actual anaphylactic reaction... throat swelling, etc, then yes, she's allergic. But *many* people who were told that they are allergic to the drug actually just had minor (in terms of actual risk) side effects, such as rashes, nausea, diarrhea, etc.

My late Dad believed he couldn't ever take penicillin because that's what he was told by a Navy corpsman after he developed a hard lumps in his gluteal muscles following an injection of penicillin during WWII. A doctor finally decided to do an allergy test when he had a bad kidney infection 8n his 50s, and it turned out he wasn't sensitive to it at all.

Something to consider, especially considering the drug shortages, etc...

Summerthyme
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Would you consider a pneumonia vaccine a good preventive for this?
It MAY be. It doesn't prevent all types of pneumonia, and I'm not sure of which strains are causing these secondary bacterial infections, but it would be a good question for your doctor.

Summerthyme
 

kyrsyan

Veteran Member
Yes... really, this is one place where you CAN'T ask for internet advice! I would never dare even suggest a particular type of antibiotic to someone who has a *proven* allergy to penicillin. It used to be believed that there was significant risk of people being allergic to penicillin also reacting to cephalasporins (Keflex, etc), but that risk has now been downgraded, especially for the second generation cephalasporins and newer.

Google "cross sensitivity with penicillin" and do some reading. I don't know if this link will copy correctly... But it's an excellent PDF chart of various ABX and what else someone might react to if they are

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/Tools/ANTIBIOTIC%20CROSS-SENSITIVITY%20CHART.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj4oriJ2unYAhVOjK0KHTlUAi8QFjAMegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw1wY_DAiFaBD_kmLW8uN-Od

However... are you SURE your wife is truly allergic to the penicillins? If she had an actual anaphylactic reaction... throat swelling, etc, then yes, she's allergic. But *many* people who were told that they are allergic to the drug actually just had minor (in terms of actual risk) side effects, such as rashes, nausea, diarrhea, etc.

My late Dad believed he couldn't ever take penicillin because that's what he was told by a Navy corpsman after he developed a hard lumps in his gluteal muscles following an injection of penicillin during WWII. A doctor finally decided to do an allergy test when he had a bad kidney infection 8n his 50s, and it turned out he wasn't sensitive to it at all.

Something to consider, especially considering the drug shortages, etc...

Summerthyme
Interesting. Some of his worst reactions are to drugs in the same class as Keflex. Now I understand why the pharmacists always asks if he has taken penicillin meds before and if he is okay with them. We did find that he can take sulfur based meds, and have them work, when most folks in my family can't. The reactions vary. In me, the sulfur meds won't work but there is no allergic reaction. To my mom who breaks out in hives and has anaphylaxis. My family has a variety of oddball drug reactions.
 

Cyclonemom

Veteran Member
I don't know about the cytokine storms, but I have never personally known/had connection with anyone under the age of about 75 dying from influenza or it's complications. The few people I did know were all in nursing homes and very elderly.

This year, within the last 3 weeks, I have had a college friend whose adopted 15 year old daughter died, and a childhood friend of my husband, roughly 35 yo healthy robust guy died leaving a wife and 3 small kids. Both died within 48 hours of becoming ill. FWIW, both were in central IA (DSM & CR), and both died from sepsis. I never inquired the specific details, but suspect septic shock for it to be so fast.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Wow! That's terrifying, Cyclone mom!

Condolences to those who have lost loved ones in such a shocking way...

Summerthyme
 
Yes... really, this is one place where you CAN'T ask for internet advice! I would never dare even suggest a particular type of antibiotic to someone who has a *proven* allergy to penicillin. It used to be believed that there was significant risk of people being allergic to penicillin also reacting to cephalasporins (Keflex, etc), but that risk has now been downgraded, especially for the second generation cephalasporins and newer.

Google "cross sensitivity with penicillin" and do some reading. I don't know if this link will copy correctly... But it's an excellent PDF chart of various ABX and what else someone might react to if they are

http://www.vhpharmsci.com/vhformulary/Tools/ANTIBIOTIC%20CROSS-SENSITIVITY%20CHART.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj4oriJ2unYAhVOjK0KHTlUAi8QFjAMegQIERAB&usg=AOvVaw1wY_DAiFaBD_kmLW8uN-Od

However... are you SURE your wife is truly allergic to the penicillins? If she had an actual anaphylactic reaction... throat swelling, etc, then yes, she's allergic. But *many* people who were told that they are allergic to the drug actually just had minor (in terms of actual risk) side effects, such as rashes, nausea, diarrhea, etc.

My late Dad believed he couldn't ever take penicillin because that's what he was told by a Navy corpsman after he developed a hard lumps in his gluteal muscles following an injection of penicillin during WWII. A doctor finally decided to do an allergy test when he had a bad kidney infection 8n his 50s, and it turned out he wasn't sensitive to it at all.

Something to consider, especially considering the drug shortages, etc...

Summerthyme
She had a bad reaction as a child. Also allergic to bee stings. Deathly afraid of both now.
Doesn’t even like it when I get a pen-based antibiotic for dental work.
 

Cyclonemom

Veteran Member
Wow! That's terrifying, Cyclone mom!

Condolences to those who have lost loved ones in such a shocking way...

Summerthyme
Yes, horribly tragic. The families are both suffering terribly.

And I see we now have a tb2k member whose dad just passed from flu complications.

This is adding up to be a very tragic year for many families.:shk:
 

Buick Electra

TB2K Girls with Guns
Would you consider a pneumonia vaccine a good preventive for this?
All I know is when I got my FIRST and ONLY Pneumonia shot in Oct 2013, I came down with Double Pneumonia in March of 2014 and ever since, I have gotten pneumonia EVERY YEAR! I'm calling it the NWO Shot and I'd advise against it.

I've been taking a tablespoon of colloidal silver, Elderberry syrup, Oregano and Astragalus pills along with 250mg of Azithromycin every night for the last month to buck up my immune system.

Our Preacher yesterday, who is also a Chaplin at one of the hospitals, urged everyone to stock up on Gatorade in case the flu hits.

He said the hospital (and hospitalS) has/are run/running out of IV bags, stating we get all our IV bags from Puerto Rico and since they were hit w/the hurricane, it took all all 4 of their factores that made them. Also said that hospitals are running low on antibiotics, IV lines and syringes.
 

Hermantribe

Veteran Member
I don't know about the cytokine storms, but I have never personally known/had connection with anyone under the age of about 75 dying from influenza or it's complications. The few people I did know were all in nursing homes and very elderly.

This year, within the last 3 weeks, I have had a college friend whose adopted 15 year old daughter died, and a childhood friend of my husband, roughly 35 yo healthy robust guy died leaving a wife and 3 small kids. Both died within 48 hours of becoming ill. FWIW, both were in central IA (DSM & CR), and both died from sepsis. I never inquired the specific details, but suspect septic shock for it to be so fast.
MY son's friend died from sepsis too. 18 yrs old, flu for 2 weeks, lungs filled with fluid, and they got him to the hospital too late. So sad. Prayers for everyone suffering from this.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
All I know is when I got my FIRST and ONLY Pneumonia shot in Oct 2013, I came down with Double Pneumonia in March of 2014 and ever since, I have gotten pneumonia EVERY YEAR! I'm calling it the NWO Shot and I'd advise against it.

I've been taking a tablespoon of colloidal silver, Elderberry syrup, Oregano and Astragalus pills along with 250mg of Azithromycin every night for the last month to buck up my immune system.

Our Preacher yesterday, who is also a Chaplin at one of the hospitals, urged everyone to stock up on Gatorade in case the flu hits.

He said the hospital (and hospitalS) has/are run/running out of IV bags, stating we get all our IV bags from Puerto Rico and since they were hit w/the hurricane, it took all all 4 of their factores that made them. Also said that hospitals are running low on antibiotics, IV lines and syringes.
PLEASE be careful about taking an antibiotic (in subtherapeutic doses!) unless your doctor has specifically advised/prescribed it, AND can clearly articulate how and why they believe it would be of benefit.

As it is, all you are really doing is messing up your healthy gut flora (which we're now learning are involved in almost all aspects of our health, including mental health) and "teaching" any bacteria your body comes in contact with (including, potentially, strains that can cause pneumonia) to be resistant not only to azithromycin, but other drugs in the same class.

Summerthyme
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
I might have missed it if it was mentioned already in this thread, but seems I saw somewhere advice on what to avoid/or take to avoid causing cytokines storms such as the Spanish flu caused. Can anyone here remember?
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Jed... cucurmin plus piperine made a HUGE difference for us in the H1N1 influenza, in terms of reducing inflammatory pain in our spines and elsewhere...

Summerthyme
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
Thanks Summerthyme. Have been taking turmeric extract with peperine anyways as an anti-stroke preventative, so I guess we’re covered. I was thinking I read somewhere that there were some things to avoid, kind of counter intuitive, maybe things like echinacea that otherwise would be good for its ability to strengthen the immune system, but in a cytokines storm would not be good.
 

ainitfunny

TB Fanatic
Back in 2003 during the SARS epidemic, the doctor in charge of a locked down hospital in Asia sent a blog out every day on the situation. On one of those posts he said his staff was also dying at an alarming rate and as far as he could determine it was from cytokine storms triggered by the SARS virus. He said if I just had something that would stop a cytokine storm, I could save these people. (A LOT of different illnesses and things can trigger a deadly cytokine storm where, basically your own immune system, NOT the disease you are fighting, kills you! That is why sometimes you see the youngest, healthiest people with the strongest immune systems getting hit the hardest with some illnesses!)

Well, I was determined to read every .gov and .edu and .org research report I could find on the internet till I found some research on it. I FINALLY after reading night and day for a couple of weeks found a research report on SOMETHING ELSE that had a sort of "by the way, we discovered" buried in the body of the report!!! It said "by the way, we discovered that CURCUMIN (from TURMERIC) would STOP a cytokine cascade in it's tracks (or some thing to that effect). I copied the report and sent it to him but never got a response, so I do not know if he ever got it or if he did, if he actually READ it, because the research had nothing to do with his problem EXCEPT that one note in the research findings!!

The TRAGIC thing about it was that HE probably HAD WHAT HE NEEDED, (in Chinese herbal meds) ALL ALONG! Asia is where we get curcumin from Turmeric, and it had been used for thousands of years to treat flu and fevers. Even now, American doctors do not know about curcumin's ability to stop a cytokine storm faster more completely than any prescription medicine!! I regularly inform the doctors at Madigan Army Hosp, where I get medical care, about it and suggest "I know you probably can't prescribe it, but just between you and me, if you or your loved ones are gonna die from a cytokine storm, HAVE IT already purchased and USE IT to save them, because I have it and I know it works, and :I give them a copy of the report. (I am out of the copies and I don't know if I can find it again to make more copies, if I ever buy a replacement copier.) All that info was lost along with the computer I was using back in 2003.

I think I had googled " research, .gov,(and .edu, then .org) cytokine cascade" or "cytokine storm"

I just now googled that again and immediately find:

I see now the National Institute of Health has taken it seriously and finally NIH produced THIS in 2015:

Curcumin suppression of cytokine release and cytokine storm. A potential therapy for patients with Ebola and other severe viral infections. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25600522

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25600522

Curcumin suppression of cytokine release and cytokine storm. A potential therapy for patients with Ebola and other severe viral infections.

Sordillo PP1, Helson L2.
Author information
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

The terminal stage of Ebola and other viral diseases is often the onset of a cytokine storm, the massive overproduction of cytokines by the body's immune system.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:

The actions of curcumin in suppressing cytokine release and cytokine storm are discussed.
RESULTS:

Curcumin blocks cytokine release, most importantly the key pro-inflammatory cytokines, interleukin-1, interleukin-6 and tumor necrosis factor-α. The suppression of cytokine release by curcumin correlates with clinical improvement in experimental models of disease conditions where a cytokine storm plays a significant role in mortality.
CONCLUSION:

The use of curcumin should be investigated in patients with Ebola and cytokine storm. Intravenous formulations may allow achievement of therapeutic blood levels of curcumin.

Copyright © 2015 International Institute of Anticancer Research (Dr. John G. Delinassios), All rights reserved.
KEYWORDS:

Curcumin; Ebola; cytokine storm; interleukin-1; interleukin-6; review; tumor necrosis factor-α
 
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