GOV/MIL “Even though we will lose CAS capacity, we are retiring the A-10 anyway” USAF says

[Housecarl]

The F-35 is a capability cancer....

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://theaviationist.com/2016/03/24/us-air-force-retiring-a10-anyway/

“Even though we will lose CAS capacity, we are retiring the A-10 anyway” U.S. Air Force says

Mar 24 2016 - 15 Comments
By Dario Leone

The U.S. Air Force has revealed that the A-10 retirement will begin in fiscal year 2018.

Taken on Feb. 26, the picture in this post shows an A-10 Warthog in action during a joint air attack team exercise at Yakima Training Center, Washington, where the “Hogs” trained alongside the AH-64 Apache helicopters deployed at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash., providing Close Air Support (CAS) to Soldiers with 1-2 Stryker Brigade Combat Team.

Still, this kind of training will come to an end in the near future. In fact, in spite of its unmatched capabilities in the CAS role, the U.S. Air Force will soon retire its A-10 fleet.

As reported by DefenseNews.com, the service has recently revealed the number of A-10s that will be retired each year before the type is completely withdrawn from service in 2022.

The plan call for the retirement of 49 planes or 2 squadrons in fiscal year (FY) 2018. This will be followed by 49 aircraft in FY2019, 64 in FY2020, and 96 in FY2021.

During a hearing held at the House Armed Services Committee on Mar. 16 Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh said that accelerating the retirement of the A-10 will help to better support the stand up of F-35 squadrons. “If we keep the A-10, by FY21 — the scheduled FOC (Final Operational Capability) date for the F-35 — we will be about 50 percent short of the maintenance manpower we need to field the F-35. So it’s a manpower problem.”

However, even though the F-35 can perform the CAS mission, it would be too expensive using the Lightning II in the A-10 role, thus leaving the problem of the Hog replacement unsolved. As explained by Welsh himself: “The F-35 is intended to the high-threat CAS platform, (with the retirement of the A-10) we are losing CAS capacity.”

 

[Adino]

dumb asses

 

[Hfcomms]

Well, as the F35 isn't even close to being mission capable at this point I wouldn't bet on it. Give the A-10 to the Army then if the Air Force doesn't want to bother with close air support.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Simple solution, sell them to the Army.

 

[Zagdid]

Certainly, we can reused the O-rings in the solid rocket boosters if they are still in good condition.
Ok, but only tiny amounts of damage.
Well, its only a little bigger than what we let go thru last time, can't we patch it with some goopy stuff.
Ok, that's huge, but we can't delay the launch, just patch it up with the goopy stuff. (this sort of advanced thinking gets people killed)

The F-35 is like a maid that don't do windows. Oh, how quickly they send the A-10s and the B-52s to the conflict area.

 

[DazedandConfused]

The Air force has lost its friggen mind ! The A-10 is the best of the best at ground support and tank busting!! Bunch of dumb asses running the show.

 

[Dennis Olson]

The Air Force has NEVER wanted to be in the business of CAS. Not ever. Even in the 70's when I was in and the A-10's were brand new, they still didn't want to perform in that role. Like I said, sell them to the Army.

 

[Red Baron]

Re: The F-35, I have always thought that a single engine jet warplane is only suited as a cheap, short range, point defense, interceptor that should only fly over "friendly" territory. Navy use of a single engine jet over water is almost laughable. The F-35 is a death sentence for the pilot.

The F-35 is neither cheap nor does it excel in any particular realm of war fighting. There are enemy planes that are faster, more maneuverable, more robust, longer ranged, and can carry more ordnance.

 

[Hfcomms]

CAS is low and slow and a lot of the jet jocks don't like doing it. You need something slow enough, tough enough with loiter time over target and a real fighter doesn't do that. It's the pounding the square peg into a round hole. I'd start the A-10 production like up again if they were serious and re-engine it with more modern turbofans as well as rearm and more modern armor.

Interesting that it came out just a few weeks ago about the Air Force bringing out a couple of OV-10's and deployed them to southwest asia last year so see how they would do for close air support.

The EUE "tested if light turbo-prop aircraft, with the OV-10 as the test platform, increased effectiveness of airpower in a counterinsurgency [COIN] or irregular warfare [IW] environment, while reducing cost and preserving high-end special aviation resources", Capt Davis added. The aircraft completed a six- to nine-month limited objective experiment (LOE) in the United States prior to deploying to the US Central Command area of responsibility in May 2015 for the EUE. It returned to the United States in October 2015.

http://www.janes.com/article/58735/usaf-studies-ov-10-for-cas-iw-roles-in-theater

For the cost of one F-35 you could probably purchase and deploy a couple of squadrons of these that would do most of what is required.

 

[bw]

The Air Force won't care about CAS until it's Air Force guys they're supporting on the ground.

 

[LightEcho]

I think we are in the age of drones. There is no reason why they cannot make a drone that carries the firepower of the A10. One problem that will always make that risky, however, is electronic jamming. In a high tech battlefield, there must be a means of going into degraded modes of operation. Sometimes a simple mechanical answer is all that works.

 

[Adino]

seems to me that contracts w/ and for the mic are more important to brass and dc than strategic/tactical advantage and troop's lives

i will now try to pretend to be shocked







whoops....not working

 

[GammaRat]

I'm sorta partial to the Super Tucano or AT 6.

I'd LOVE to fly one of these

or

 

[Mongo]

Simple solution, sell them to the Army.

Can't
The Army would be happy to
There is a rule/reg/law that the Army cannot fly fixed wing attack aircraft

 

[Dozdoats]

FAST MOVER dumbasses at that. Jaundiced as they always have been since 1947.

USAF needs to be STRIPPED of the CAS role and the Army needs to be flying low and slow austere environment CAS aircraft with warrant officer pilots. The Key West stupidity needs to END NOW.

 

[wait-n-see]

Can't
The Army would be happy to
There is a rule/reg/law that the Army cannot fly fixed wing attack aircraft

It is far worse than that. It is only an agreement between the Army and USAF, nothing else. A stupid agreement that was only carried out in the Pentagon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson-McConnell_agreement_of_1966

The Johnson-McConnell agreement of 1966 was an agreement between United States Army Chief of Staff General Harold K. Johnson and United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. McConnell on 6 April 1966. The U.S. Army agreed to give up its fixed-wing tactical airlift aircraft, while the U.S. Air Force relinquished its claim to most forms of rotary wing aircraft. The most immediate effect was the transfer of Army DHC-4 Caribou aircraft to the Air Force.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Can't
The Army would be happy to
There is a rule/reg/law that the Army cannot fly fixed wing attack aircraft

There was also (once upon a time) a rule that homosexuals couldn't be in the military, and one forbidding women from combat roles. So yeah, a "rule" eh? That means so much....

 

[Mongo]

Our military is being set up for a huge failure
Catastrophic

 

[gawarriorqueen]

0bama's America.

 

[Old Gray Mare]

The Air Force won't care about CAS until it's Air Force guys they're supporting on the ground.

Not to mention the ones in the air. The Warthog has a reputation for bringing their pilots home safely as well as for getting the job done. Instead they want to rely on the F35, a airplane that has not preformed well in test flights?

If they can't give them to the Army how about handing them off to the Marines. Let the Marine pilots show the Air Force brass how to use them.

 

[cooter]

well, unless,

the govment bunch shows up with a ov10, or A10 clone, all I can say is how stupid are these idiots running the services now days,

like I say all the time about corporate America, seems they (gov bunch), are wanting us to fail, at everything, too

and the elites wonder why trump is stomping all the competition in the ground,

 

[Garryowen]

Can't
The Army would be happy to
There is a rule/reg/law that the Army cannot fly fixed wing attack aircraft

I'm thinking that we had f/w aircraft flied by army pilots in RVN. But maybe they were trans.

 

[Thunderbird]

If the Army cannot use them I am sure the Marines will know how to utilize the A-10.

 

[Vector]

If the Army cannot use them I am sure the Marines will know how to utilize the A-10.

There you go. Perfect place for them.

 

[NC Susan]

I really believe. Nobody should be allowed to run for office that has never worn a uniform

Police or military

Especially those DC idiots

 

[Weps]

I really believe. Nobody should be allowed to run for office that has never worn a uniform

Police or military

Especially those DC idiots

While I understand and often think the similar at times, it is certainly not a policy to adopt. Not everyone that has been in uniform is of an upstanding caliber, even if they were when they were in uniform.

A fine example is John Kerry, another is Mark Kelly. Both men served their country, one of them with distinction, but both men have exercised poor choices in serving this nation politically.

 

[Palmetto]

I really believe. Nobody should be allowed to run for office that has never worn a uniform

Police or military

Especially those DC idiots

John Kerry wore a uniform. So did Wesley Clark

Trump wore one at military school.

None of those three men are qualified to be the CIC.

 

[night driver]

There are a fair number of folks out there who would argue with you about Clark.

 

[ShadowMan]

Simple solution, sell them to the Army.

Too bad they can't be carrier launched, then they could give them to the Marines. THEY UNDERSTAND how to use close air support!

 

[Housecarl]

I think we are in the age of drones. There is no reason why they cannot make a drone that carries the firepower of the A10. One problem that will always make that risky, however, is electronic jamming. In a high tech battlefield, there must be a means of going into degraded modes of operation. Sometimes a simple mechanical answer is all that works.

I'm sorta partial to the Super Tucano or AT 6.

I'd LOVE to fly one of these

or

The problem with drones are situational awareness and ECM vulnerability. The Super Tucano, AT-6, OV-10 and other turboprop options all have survivability issues in high threat areas for "big war" use (recall the A-10 from 2003 that came back to base after a MANPAD hit in Iraq), can't as easily "self deploy" and are going to be more susceptible to power/lift/temperature/altitude issues at full load out.

I'm not saying they aren't good, but they need to be seen in the proper niche.

 

[JF&P]

Simple solution, sell them to the Army.

Bingo!!!

 

[smokin]

A-10 Warthog

 

[Richard]

Why not an updated version of the A10 produced in small quantities for close battlefield duties to complement other fighters?

Another alternative is to keep a reasonable number of existing A10s in flightworthy condition for the foreseeable future......

 

[Red Baron]

The damn F-35 is so impossibly expensive and so far behind schedule that the program is sucking the life out of the entire Air Force budget.

Personally, I would give the manufacturer six months to meet all performance requirements with the threat of cancelling the entire project.

I bet that things would suddenly snap into the proper focus?

 

[Richard]

The damn F-35 is so impossibly expensive and so far behind schedule that the program is sucking the life out of the entire Air Force budget.

Personally, I would give the manufacturer six months to meet all performance requirements with the threat of cancelling the entire project.

I bet that things would suddenly snap into the proper focus?

Will they keep going or pull the plug...........

An alternative could be keep the best parts of the F35 project(s), cancel the rest and develop existing designs to fill the gap....... or buy Eurofighters for some capabilities.........

I would argue what is the future effectiveness in reality of the F22 in say 30 years to come given that the project has been mothballed.........

 

[Richard]

OK to be brutal have A10s been used effectively in recent conflicts or not............

don't know myself........

 

[Dozdoats]

OK to be brutal have A10s been used effectively in recent conflicts or not............

OH yes. Was talking to someone today who said they wouldn't be here had it not been for CAS from A-10s in A'stan ... several times over.

 

[Richard]

I really believe. Nobody should be allowed to run for office that has never worn a uniform

Police or military

Especially those DC idiots

I would extend that to nobody should be allowed in public office unless they have experience in their field, whatever that happens to be........, education, defence, health, business, energy etc etc

 

[Satanta]

Army/Marines.

Border Patrol.

Use them to end riots when some criminal get shot or BLM marches.

 

[AlfaMan]

Here's a thought-the A10 is the last Fairchild Republic aircraft still in service in the USAF. Do you remember the last one Republic sold to the USAF, the one that excelled in low and fast on the deck in the ground attack role? You Vietnam Vets will probably know-but for those who don't, try the F-105 Thunderchief. The "Thud".It was also one hellaciously good ground attack plane.
Because of attrition and battle damage during Vietnam, these were also gotten rid of as our role in the war lessened. Just like the A10 is being done away with.
THUDS FOREVER! WARTHOGS FOREVER!