DISASTER Endangered FROGS stopping burnt town of Paradise CA from being quickly rebuilt

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/10/frogs-california-fire-rebuild/

ENDANGERED FROGS PREVENTING FIRE-RAVAGED CALIFORNIA CITY FROM BEING QUICKLY REBUILT

05/10/2019

"Endangered frogs in California are making it difficult for state officials to decide on regulations that allow fire crews to clean up debris left from a deadly fire in the town of Paradise.

Clean-up crew have been barred, however, from entering approximately 800 sites because of frog species that have halted rebuilding and clearing efforts as state and federal seek an agreement on environmental guidelines, The Sacramento Bee reported Friday.

Cleanup on roughly 11,000 properties in Paradise, Concow and Magalia has been halted due to the lack of clarity in environment guidelines that will both achieve clearing and rebuilding efforts, and protect endangered species. “We are close to finalizing those plans. We are trying to balance the need to get these properties cleared as quickly as possible but also protecting our environment out there,” said Inland Region Administrator for the Governor’s Office of Emergency Services, Eric Lamoureux, according to the Bee.

Lamoureux claimed that cleanup efforts haven’t been slowed or stopped by the finalizing of guidelines.

Roughly 800 properties close to waterways need extra assessment before they can be cleaned, state Fish and Wildlife officials confirmed, the Bee reported.

Other lawmakers and residents claim differently.

Republican state Sen. Jim Nielsen and Republican state Assemblyman James Gallagher called the situation “absurd” and said that “frogs, birds and waterways are causing work to stop in some areas,” according to the Bee.

Bike-burning.jpg

A bicycle burns on an unattended property near Del Dios Highway in the Rancho Santa Fe area of San Diego, California October 23, 2007. Wildfires stoked by fierce winds burned unchecked across Southern California for a third day on Tuesday with 300,000 people in San Diego alone evacuated as flames destroyed or threatened homes from humble forest cabins to luxury villas.

Clear Creek resident Alicia Rock claimed that cleanup on her property was meant to begin on Tuesday but has been indefinitely postponed due to a lack of official guidelines. Rock’s home was destroyed in the fire.

“I have followed the process to a T. Now I am being held up,” she said. “Come on guys, you’ve had six months. You knew this was coming,” Rock said, according to the Bee.

California-wildfires.jpg

Firefighters battling the King Fire watch as a backfire burns along Highway 50 in Fresh Pond, California September 16, 2014. The fire led officials to call on about 400 people to evacuate from areas threatened by the blaze, Cal Fire spokeswoman Alyssa Smith said. It has charred more than 11,500 acres (4,654 hectares)

Rock also called the situation “stupid” and said that officials should have prepared for what they knew would happen. (RELATED: Jerry Brown Is ‘Not Correct’ About California Wildfires, Scientist Says)

Rock alleges that she told state officials in early winter that debris from the fire was piling up in streams and creeks and that they should have thought ahead to prepare for the current situation dampening rebuilding efforts.

There are over 140 cleanup teams working on clearing sites in Paradise, with teams averaging roughly 100 sites per day, according to the Bee. Cleanup trucks are pulling debris and top soil from burned homes and depositing the material into plastic vessels which are transported to landfills in Northern California.

The Camp Fire was California’s deadliest and most destructive fire in history, according to CBS News. The fire destroyed over 18,000 buildings and killed 85 people. Authorities were unable to account for roughly 1,200 other people. The fire burned down the town of Paradise, and its 27,000 residents were forced to leave to find new homes or rebuild.

Camp Fire did more than $11 billion in damage, CBS reported. Experts have estimated that rebuilding after the wildfires destroyed large swaths of California will cost the state up to $13 billion."
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Wrong prefix. Lacking a STUPIDITY prefix, I think the only thing thst guts this is INSANITY!

(Not a mod note... just personal opinion)

Summerthyme
 

West

Senior
Around 2005, I had a really good client and friend who was going too add to his home a extra room and bath. He had over 20 acres and was near a stream and lake. A environmental impact study was done after he submitted his blue prints and energy calcs that I provided and the St.of Ca. Mandates. They found a "red legged tree frog" so that stopped (red tagged) everything and he couldn't even sell or use his now defunct property that was now in a gutted stage, because they let him start the remodel, before they found the stupid tree frog that is really not all that endangered.

Out several thousands and now out of a home, he went a little crazy and tried to commit suicide by cop. I later moved and don't know what happened to him and his property.

Would not be surprised if illegals now live there. Still have family who live in the area, and they say that the area is a homeless camp now.

For reference....
http://www.californiaherps.com/frogs/pages/r.draytonii.html
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
The longer stuff like this goes on (and this isn't the first excuse) the more some of the "conspiracy" theories about the fire being started or allowed for various reasons, start to make more sense.

This started almost right away by telling people like my Elder friend that they couldn't put up a trailer or RV on their own property, then there was the water so contaminated people were not supposed to wash their clothes in it, then it was people couldn't come back because of "toxic cleanup" and now we have "endangered frogs.

Just exactly how are the frogs more "endangered" then when the town was there?

This is starting to "smell" worse than the fire itself did, and while there are all kinds of "wild" reasons why "Mr. Global" or "Mr. Silly-Con Valley" might want the land where my former boss and half of my old office staff were buying retirement homes in the early 1990s; the real answer might be a very ancient one.

Paradise California was built on top of some old gold mines that were never totally mined out, just kind of left alone after the easy stuff go taken out.

It could be something else and the start of the fire may have been a real accident, but the aftermath is starting to look like one giant stalling operation designed to force people to settle elsewhere and then sell their land for pennies on the dollar in a literal "fire sale."

Mountain People, even Californians tend to be resilient and would normally have started rebuilding by now, instead of people like my friend are "apartment sharing" with six other people a couple of hundred miles away or they have left the State altogether.
 

West

Senior
And BTW, think I mused that something like this will happen right after the fire, on that thread. Sure of it. Next (muse) the whole area will be some kind of a dedicated wild life preserve.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
And BTW, think I mused that something like this will happen right after the fire, on that thread. Sure of it. Next (muse) the whole area will be some kind of a dedicated wild life preserve.

With "special rights" being sold to mining companies who promise to be "environmentally friendly" and/or vast "retreat centers" that the super-elite can "rent" for conferences or a Winter Get Away...
 

West

Senior
With "special rights" being sold to mining companies who promise to be "environmentally friendly" and/or vast "retreat centers" that the super-elite can "rent" for conferences or a Winter Get Away...

I've mused that most all of N. Ca. From Sacramento to southern Oregon has had its mineral rights sold to China since Clinton. And China is just waiting for a huge SHTF or CW2 to happen, before they show up all along the NW coast with huge gold dredges (with hydro cannons) the size of battle ships and floating saw mills to both mine and log the whole area.
 

Scrapman

Veteran Member
I had a tornado go threw the neighborhood a couple of years ago and when it was over there wasn't an inch of my property that wasn't covered with tree's down and branches. Within hours I was all ready cleaning up as was all of the neighbors in.the effected area .Within a week it was all out to the road waiting for the town's chopper. Governor asshole showed up for photos and promises . Nobody here waited for the government to come and clean there property up.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I had a tornado go threw the neighborhood a couple of years ago and when it was over there wasn't an inch of my property that wasn't covered with tree's down and branches. Within hours I was all ready cleaning up as was all of the neighbors in.the effected area .Within a week it was all out to the road waiting for the town's chopper. Governor asshole showed up for photos and promises . Nobody here waited for the government to come and clean there property up.

People tried to do that in Paradise and were met with roadblocks and uniforms preventing them from getting in, a few people managed it anyway but those without homes (a few homes survived) have mostly been "forced" to leave and the homeowners hit with things like water that isn't usable and worries about leaving their property in case they can't get back in.

Also, I used to call Paradise "One of God's Waiting Rooms" when I described it to my husband, a lot of people who lived in the mobile home parks (not really trailers but homes) were in their 80s and 90s.

Not only do I suspect the death toll was actually higher than the official one (not all those people had family left alive) but most of them are too old to rebuild so understandably are moving away.

But the younger folks (even in their 60s and 70s) are mostly willing to clean up and rebuild but there are active forces trying to keep that from happening, which again has my suspicion meter way-way up.
 

West

Senior
If you try to do anything in California that may have a environmental impact of any kind or carbon foot print, be prepared to meet many forms of compliance. Including a environmental impact study in cases where trees may need to be removed or drainage, etc, needs to be done.

Then heaven forbid that a stupid frog, guppy, bird or flower, etc, be found even near your project. Even if it's a man made wet land, if your little water feature makes Habitate, you could lose it all, to a no human use red tagged area.
 

parable

Senior Member
I've mused that most all of N. Ca. From Sacramento to southern Oregon has had its mineral rights sold to China since Clinton. And China is just waiting for a huge SHTF or CW2 to happen, before they show up all along the NW coast with huge gold dredges (with hydro cannons) the size of battle ships and floating saw mills to both mine and log the whole area.

I think that your comment is correct. If America knew the truth and extent of all the “deals” that have been made, we would understand why borders are not protected and enemies flood the country. Conspiracy, not theory.
 

Faroe

Un-spun
I think that your comment is correct. If America knew the truth and extent of all the “deals” that have been made, we would understand why borders are not protected and enemies flood the country. Conspiracy, not theory.

Agree. I would be surprised if they WEREN'T trying to steal it.
 

West

Senior
RIP Paradise, we will now make the whole area into the "Paradice living memorial wildlife preserve".

Now don't that make you feel better? Well yes I feel all fuzzy inside, to bad for all the survivor's though of the fire, here is more salt in your wounds for good measure.
 

michaelteever

Deceased
I had a tornado go threw the neighborhood a couple of years ago and when it was over there wasn't an inch of my property that wasn't covered with tree's down and branches. Within hours I was all ready cleaning up as was all of the neighbors in.the effected area .Within a week it was all out to the road waiting for the town's chopper. Governor asshole showed up for photos and promises . Nobody here waited for the government to come and clean there property up.

That IS the way we roll here in Western New York, in spite of the Governor, Scrapman, as I'm sure you agree. :lol:

Everybody pitches in until it's all done. That's what Good Neighbors do.

Michael

And I also viewed that tornado while driving down the 90 (Local NY Thruway).
 

West

Senior
And know that this original fire that burned down Paradise, was feed by poor forest management from stupid environmental laws that built up the fire loads from dead and dieing old growth.

Also the power company use to keep the fire loads clear of their power lines on their own schedule and they got it done for years. Then they started to have mandated environmental impact studied done to clear the lines, that slowed the job down and the pecker poles/brush/fire loads to grow under the power lines.

Then the fires, then the bank ruptcy of PG&E all going to plan, a new state power company and more gold and timber country removed from private ownership.
 

Bardou

Veteran Member
I've mused that most all of N. Ca. From Sacramento to southern Oregon has had its mineral rights sold to China since Clinton. And China is just waiting for a huge SHTF or CW2 to happen, before they show up all along the NW coast with huge gold dredges (with hydro cannons) the size of battle ships and floating saw mills to both mine and log the whole area.

I've sat through 2-1/2 years of bullshit stories of DWR, Jerry Brown, Chinese, on and on mining gold that was removed from the dam. There's 2 big hills sitting out by Burma Road that was a dumping ground from all the waste that was dredged from the bottom of the spillway (most of it cement/concrete/asbestos). There's gold here, but it's too costly to remove. Frankly I'm tired of the bullshit creeps like Paul Preston telling his conspiracy theories and gullible people believing it. I called that asshole out from the beginning, and he's starting up again. He's got an Agenda alright. Believe what you want, come see for yourself. /just saying
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
the whole area will be some kind of a dedicated wild life preserve

What, like the movie Animal House? (You know, “wild life” and all that.)
 

Bardou

Veteran Member
And know that this original fire that burned down Paradise, was feed by poor forest management from stupid environmental laws that built up the fire loads from dead and dieing old growth.

Also the power company use to keep the fire loads clear of their power lines on their own schedule and they got it done for years. Then they started to have mandated environmental impact studied done to clear the lines, that slowed the job down and the pecker poles/brush/fire loads to grow under the power lines.

Then the fires, then the bank ruptcy of PG&E all going to plan, a new state power company and more gold and timber country removed from private ownership.

I've heard this for years and years now. There's been other fires up in Paradise, this isn't the first one. This last one had flames attached to it. People are beginning to rebuild up in Paradise. Many have already sold off their lots to people who want to live there. I had a yard sale this weekend and I had many from Paradise each telling us their stories. Some had tears in their eyes, but I kept telling them that they are here, alive, and a better life for them is happening. Don't become immobilized but adversity. These people got educated real fast in insurance company loopholes, gouging, and what to expect if they want to go back. Didn't find anyone who was going back. They bought here and they are happy. One person claimed that we were gouging the price of our home. I got them straightened out about what it took to maintain a house and the money and time we put into keeping our "investment" up to par. Furthermore, it's what the market will dictate. Supply and demand. STFU.
 

Bardou

Veteran Member
the whole area will be some kind of a dedicated wild life preserve

What, like the movie Animal House? (You know, “wild life” and all that.)

It isn't going to happen. Butte County needs a tax base. Paradise was a nice tax base for Butte County. Empty State owned land generates nothing but upkeep. The State is having a hard time coming up with the funds to maintain the State parks here. They can bring in all the inmates they want to help manage it, but the next year a lot of it grows right back. Follow the money. Police are being laid off here because THERE'S NO MONEY!
 

West

Senior
I spent every summer for years prospecting the rivers of N Cal. from Coloma (American river drainage), to the Redwoods (Klammath drainage). There is millions of tons of still easy to get gold in all of those drainages (between the two) that can be mined easily by 1950s huge mineing dredges and hydro cannons that today would be a environmental disaster.

But the gold is there and is not to costly to get IF....
 

Bardou

Veteran Member
RIP Paradise, we will now make the whole area into the "Paradice living memorial wildlife preserve".

Now don't that make you feel better? Well yes I feel all fuzzy inside, to bad for all the survivor's though of the fire, here is more salt in your wounds for good measure.

BULLSHIT!
 

West

Senior
Bardou,

Do you think younger people say in their 30- 40+ with kids, and make around $100k a year can afford a new home in the mountains or foothills of N. CAL?
 

Bardou

Veteran Member
Bardou,

Do you think younger people say in their 30- 40+ with kids, and make around $100k a year can afford a new home in the mountains or foothills of N. CAL?

They're buying them. A realtor stopped by (tried to engage us in selling). He said he just sold 3 houses up here to young families. The homes are in the $400,000 range with acreage. They are teachers at the college and nurses at the hospital. The retired folks left California for Tennessee, Idaho, Nevada.
 

West

Senior
They're buying them. A realtor stopped by (tried to engage us in selling). He said he just sold 3 houses up here to young families. The homes are in the $400,000 range with acreage. They are teachers at the college and nurses at the hospital. The retired folks left California for Tennessee, Idaho, Nevada.

Wow, prices has came down. When I left in 06 a three bed two bath new home on a nice lot was $500 plus.

But I did see who was buying even then is still the same. No young middle class from the private sector.
 

vessie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The longer stuff like this goes on (and this isn't the first excuse) the more some of the "conspiracy" theories about the fire being started or allowed for various reasons, start to make more sense.

This started almost right away by telling people like my Elder friend that they couldn't put up a trailer or RV on their own property, then there was the water so contaminated people were not supposed to wash their clothes in it, then it was people couldn't come back because of "toxic cleanup" and now we have "endangered frogs.

Just exactly how are the frogs more "endangered" then when the town was there?

This is starting to "smell" worse than the fire itself did, and while there are all kinds of "wild" reasons why "Mr. Global" or "Mr. Silly-Con Valley" might want the land where my former boss and half of my old office staff were buying retirement homes in the early 1990s; the real answer might be a very ancient one.

Paradise California was built on top of some old gold mines that were never totally mined out, just kind of left alone after the easy stuff go taken out.

It could be something else and the start of the fire may have been a real accident, but the aftermath is starting to look like one giant stalling operation designed to force people to settle elsewhere and then sell their land for pennies on the dollar in a literal "fire sale."

Mountain People, even Californians tend to be resilient and would normally have started rebuilding by now, instead of people like my friend are "apartment sharing" with six other people a couple of hundred miles away or they have left the State altogether.

That's exactly what I have been thinking from the start.

There is still a lot of gold underneath those houses, and the bankrupt state of Ca. will see this as a perfect 'land grab' to get these people out and away.

Who knows what other type of money making resources there are underneath Paradise and close environs that the state wants? V
 

West

Senior
China bought a few of our dredges that we built in the 1950s. Since then they have rebuilt them three times as big and as destructive. With water cannons and the fact that they make their own giant ponds to travel in, a huge modern day dredge could start in the delta (San Fran) run the Sacramento River then on up to Paradice in a year or way less and strip mine the whole area, while clearing the channel for the logs they could send to floating sawmills....

Tons and tons of gold. If 10% was taking of the really easy to get gold from the gold rush to today I be surprised. Do know that less than 2% of the river gold fields in N.Cal was ever dredged. And even then the small stuff was flushed with tailings. Today the new machines would be 90% more efficient I would bet. Making mining even the old tailings worth the effort.


https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016...chines-built-in-the-first-half-of-the-1900s/2

Today the Chinese have got the really big ones, twice as efficient at least. Add some water cannons and it would be golden for the miners, granted deadly for the environment.
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
man are they in need of some MARKETING and SPIN!!

First they got to organise. Form a community council of the "Displace humans" and put a face on the problem.

Some of them will be transgendered. some of them single mothers. immigrants, or better, undocumented. Form a non profit with all of these displaced -underpriviledgeds.

Next- a lofty eco-goal... Turning the ENTIRE FIRE AREA into a eco-preserve and MONUMENT TO GLOBAL WARMING!!

of course, we'll need donations... all of these "Displace humans" are going to need to build a new SUSTAINABLE MODEL NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THE FUTURE...

The monies will rush in...

..the frogs will be saved...

the trump deplorables further evidenced of global warming and broadly publicly embarrassed..

liberals win!:eek::kaid::popcorn1:

They need marketing and PR:)
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
This is starting to "smell" worse than the fire itself did, and while there are all kinds of "wild" reasons why "Mr. Global" or "Mr. Silly-Con Valley" might want the land where my former boss and half of my old office staff were buying retirement homes in the early 1990s; the real answer might be a very ancient one.

Paradise California was built on top of some old gold mines that were never totally mined out, just kind of left alone after the easy stuff go taken out.


ec4a5a50e21510e039ad38201a3bf164.jpg



- gold frog from Panama, not Paradise, but you got the picture I think.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
There is a serious housing shortage in and around Butte County. DW heard from a realtor that there were only 125 homes in the whole county up for sale......and the city of Chico's population jumped by 20,000 people after the fire! Everything is up: crime, traffic, homeless, etc., etc., nothing good.

University students that don't extend their rents through the summer are going to have a very difficult time finding anything to rent when school starts next fall.

Our area out north of town in the county has been inundated with real estate agents trying to get people to sell their homes. Home values in our immediate area has jumped by over 250K PLUS and many folks are taking advantage of the sudden equity jump and bailing out of the area.

For the folks up in Paradise a lot of the smaller properties will be unable to rebuild due to current building codes and regulations. Virtually all the infrastructure, power, water, sewer etc., have significantly changed during the last fifty to one hundred years. They are talking about building Fire Resistant/Proof homes. Can you imagine how much that's going to cost?!?!

We know several people that are going to try and rebuild, but it's going to be very difficult. Many of the lots are too small to met current regulations so they will have to combine lots to have one big enough to meet those regs.

Basically....it's going to be 20 to 30 years before Paradise will achieve any sense of normality. The fires did clean out a lot of the riff-raff, druggies, trashy folks and such hidden back in the valley's, canyons and woods. And if you think the "People of Walmart" that we had in Chico were bad before, it's TOTALLY over the top full of white trash and such now.
 

West

Senior
Well if they can kill more industries like logging, milling, mining and what not to save some more owls, perhaps the white trash will find jobs in the pot grow industry. Surely the local farmers are getting the screws to them too. A farmer friend of mine in the AO has giving up. First they took his water rights away, then made him install fences around the one creek on his own property, then the cost of electricity to pump water now. Cost to register farm truck/equipment, and mandated payroll liabilities, he just said screw it, sold most of his property to the Mongs, and is trying to ride out his and his SS checks and other investments.but the taxes are still killing him..
 

kittyluvr

Veteran Member
The problem is the state of CA has determined that all waste in the burned out areas is "toxic," and their are very specific regulations that must be followed to remove the "toxic" waste and only "qualified" companies can remove the waste.

Regarding the ****ing endangered frogs, the idiots counted the frogs at the end of summer instead of in the spring when they are plentiful; thus the erroneous determination of the frogs being endangered.

God I hate the stupid idiots that run this state.
 
Just wondering....awhile back, I read that there were plans to build that fast speed train in the area of one (or more?) of the fires...one theory was that the fires were set by Direct Energy Weapons to demolish the housing and clear the area for the train that was planned. Anyone know anything about this?
 

West

Senior
The problem is the state of CA has determined that all waste in the burned out areas is "toxic," and their are very specific regulations that must be followed to remove the "toxic" waste and only "qualified" companies can remove the waste.

Regarding the ****ing endangered frogs, the idiots counted the frogs at the end of summer instead of in the spring when they are plentiful; thus the erroneous determination of the frogs being endangered.

God I hate the stupid idiots that run this state.

Just add...

Solar panels and other "Green" things alike cause the most toxic waste after a fire.

Just 70 years ago a house burning down there was practically 0 toxic waste, now because of trying to be "green" it's way worse.
 

West

Senior
Just talked to a long time ago associate, he clears the brush and pecker poles that grow under the power lines near Paradice, Ca., PG&E just basically went bankrupt because of the extended liability of the fire that burned down Paradise and started other fires.

So when the Paradice fire happened and I heard that the power lines may have started the fires, I mused that it was probably because of all the restrictions and mandated environmental impact studies holding up getting the job done. After all those power lines have been there since I was a baby and they never been a problem before, of course there was also never any fuel loads under them either.

Well I was wrong, but close. My friend told me that he's biggest client is PG&E, and its a real PITA to deal with the environmental studies to do anything, the real problem is finding quality, licensed, EPA, etc..certified, tree services/land clearing companies that can work for PG&E to get that job done.

He does all he can and wants to do for PG&E. The problem is finding the over regulated tree/brush clearing companies to get the job done. He has little if any compitition.

And he just paid $2500 to register one of his big trucks, plus the yearly for pollution inspection.
 

Gercarson

Veteran Member
I am astounded that this is happening in America.

Don't be - this is the globalist's "agenda 21" scheme to stack'em and pack'em. Those who will consider this to be a "conspiracy theory" will have to take a step back and take a really hard look at what is and has been taking place in the USA and indeed, the world. Agenda 21 is so embedded that it has permeated almost EVERY small town's method of dealing with ANYTHING. Doesn't take a Mensa person to dig through to the truth - just takes a willingness to admit it.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Don't be - this is the globalist's "agenda 21" scheme to stack'em and pack'em. Those who will consider this to be a "conspiracy theory" will have to take a step back and take a really hard look at what is and has been taking place in the USA and indeed, the world. Agenda 21 is so embedded that it has permeated almost EVERY small town's method of dealing with ANYTHING. Doesn't take a Mensa person to dig through to the truth - just takes a willingness to admit it.

Agreed. However, you might consider upgrading, it's Agenda 2030, now, and if you thought Agenda 21 was bad this one...…. it's horrid. This thing is one world globalism to the core. What the young politicians are espousing in the way of socialism, is the Agenda 2030 core principals.

Whatever means possible, including frogs.
 
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