…… EMP
- Thread starter joannita
- Start date
Phlatulance
Inactive
You will know cause nearly everything will go dead. Also depends how far from the blast you are. As for #2, I wouldn't bet that it would be safe. I've read a few articles about people prepping for such an event. They put anything they want to save electronics wise in a metal file drawer, aluminum tape the seams, and make sure its isolated from any contact with anything very conductive. And if its a ham radio or anything, don't plan to take it out within the first few days. There will be residual EMP currents traveling down the remains of the power lines and such.
Also its been said else where on the web that, if this is a nuke attack, the first blast would be out of the atmosphere to knock out all sat-com's. That might be the answer to the first question in the end.
Read chapter 3 of Kearny's book Nuclear War Survival Skills, pages 22 through 26 at http://www.oism.org/nwss/. It is listed as chapter 2, Warning and communications at this site and chapter 3 in the soft cover copy that I have.
Kearny says to keep antennas to 10" or less. I have seen references to 19" or less and 30" or less in other places. I would trust Kearny more than others. Remember that an electrical cord will act as an antenna. If you kept you wind up radio with the antenna down, based on what Kearny says, it should survive. Also remember that after a nuclear attack, many broadcast stations would be off the air and that even if they were broadcasting, the ionization, in the air, would limit your ability to receive the broadcast.
Hope this helps
Kearny says to keep antennas to 10" or less. I have seen references to 19" or less and 30" or less in other places. I would trust Kearny more than others. Remember that an electrical cord will act as an antenna. If you kept you wind up radio with the antenna down, based on what Kearny says, it should survive. Also remember that after a nuclear attack, many broadcast stations would be off the air and that even if they were broadcasting, the ionization, in the air, would limit your ability to receive the broadcast.
Hope this helps
happyretiree
Veteran Member
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
Two types of EMP attacks:
HEMP (High-altitude, Electro-Magnetic Pulse):
Set off by nuclear detonation above 80 miles in the atmosphere. The US would need at LEAST 4 devices to cover CONUS, so it will never be a "one hit wonder" here. Russia and china have the capability, terrorists are not going to set off a successful series without help from one of those two countries (Iran and NK may have missiles that could hit Israel, but they are not going to make the spread across CONUS effectively, even if launched from a ship or two). You will know that a successful HEMP strike has gone off if there is no power on the power grids, and both phone and cable are out. HEMP effects long (miles and longer) cables, wires, and power lines but will leave battery powered devices that are not connected to the grid, long lines or wires working just fine. Unconnected small (handheld) devices do not need Faraday shielding or even need to be turned off, they are much to small to pick up a signal enough to damage them.
HPM (High Powered Microwave):
Set off by a High powered DC pulse (usually made with a FCG (Flux Compression Generator) or MHD (MagnetoHydroDynamic Generator)) that is routed through a high power capable microwave tube (usually a Vircator). This device is basically a flashlight of high powered microwave transmissions. It has a very small range (a few miles), and can cover a very small area of target (a square mile or two), BUT since it is a MUCH higher frequency (900MHz to almost 90GHz) it will fry ANYTHING electronic that is not shielded fully in a Faraday shield. The good news is that while they are relatively cheap to make, they are fairly worthless when it comes to a large country. They are suited to taking out high value targets (communications centers, power centers, and military assets), so the chance that they are going to hit your neighborhood is next to zero unless you live next door to one of those places.
Honestly I don't see either happening in the near future. Most countries want the US whole and both able to pay off our debts, or at least able to get the raw materials that they need from here to their ports. And without power and communications we can't ship anything. Plus, why waste an EMP attack on a country that is already to financially self destruct by itself?
Search either "HEMP", "Transtector", "Fischer Spikeguard" if you want more info on the subject.
Take care,
Loup
HEMP (High-altitude, Electro-Magnetic Pulse):
Set off by nuclear detonation above 80 miles in the atmosphere. The US would need at LEAST 4 devices to cover CONUS, so it will never be a "one hit wonder" here. Russia and china have the capability, terrorists are not going to set off a successful series without help from one of those two countries (Iran and NK may have missiles that could hit Israel, but they are not going to make the spread across CONUS effectively, even if launched from a ship or two). You will know that a successful HEMP strike has gone off if there is no power on the power grids, and both phone and cable are out. HEMP effects long (miles and longer) cables, wires, and power lines but will leave battery powered devices that are not connected to the grid, long lines or wires working just fine. Unconnected small (handheld) devices do not need Faraday shielding or even need to be turned off, they are much to small to pick up a signal enough to damage them.
HPM (High Powered Microwave):
Set off by a High powered DC pulse (usually made with a FCG (Flux Compression Generator) or MHD (MagnetoHydroDynamic Generator)) that is routed through a high power capable microwave tube (usually a Vircator). This device is basically a flashlight of high powered microwave transmissions. It has a very small range (a few miles), and can cover a very small area of target (a square mile or two), BUT since it is a MUCH higher frequency (900MHz to almost 90GHz) it will fry ANYTHING electronic that is not shielded fully in a Faraday shield. The good news is that while they are relatively cheap to make, they are fairly worthless when it comes to a large country. They are suited to taking out high value targets (communications centers, power centers, and military assets), so the chance that they are going to hit your neighborhood is next to zero unless you live next door to one of those places.
Honestly I don't see either happening in the near future. Most countries want the US whole and both able to pay off our debts, or at least able to get the raw materials that they need from here to their ports. And without power and communications we can't ship anything. Plus, why waste an EMP attack on a country that is already to financially self destruct by itself?
Search either "HEMP", "Transtector", "Fischer Spikeguard" if you want more info on the subject.
Take care,
Loup
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
I would be willing to bet that the majority of the AM stations would still be running as well as quite a few of the FM ones. The reason is that the "finals" (The main "drive" tubes between the antenna and the actual transmitter), are all tube based on most of the stations out there, so they will handle the temporary effectively poor SWR (the part of the pulse received by the antenna backfeeding down to the finals) just fine. Tubes take EMP a LOT better than semiconductors do, even when grid connected.
On the other hand, the internet would be toast.
Loup
JHill
Inactive
This is a good read: http://www.giltweasel.com/stuff/LightsOut-Current.pdf
(I think you forgot something)Gotta remember while the PA in those Xmitters use big old tubes, on your receiver you've got FET's on the front end. So disconnect or collapse antennas to their shortest, unplug from AC or better yet use only batteries and if you can disconnect the power cord at the radio end, do so!
Joannita, I agree with Loup that it's not a credible threat. You can't prepare for everything, and I think that spending time on basic food preps and self-defense are much better ways of using limited resources.
However if it still concerns you, he IS the resident expert on electronic matters.
I'd be more worried about small nukes set in big cities, causing enough panic to hit us hard when we're already down from economic and food crises.
Small nukes on the ground don't generate much of any EMP.
However if it still concerns you, he IS the resident expert on electronic matters.
I'd be more worried about small nukes set in big cities, causing enough panic to hit us hard when we're already down from economic and food crises.
Small nukes on the ground don't generate much of any EMP.
I agree.
Basics of Emergency Preparedness say that you prepare for the most likely AND the most disruptive things FIRST!
Be creative we are not just talking about EMP, but what about personal health and job loss.
Sit down with a pad of paper and draw three columns,
1) list all the things that you worry about,
2) then in a column next to it give them a number (1-10) ranking how likely they will happen.
3) Next to that column rank them again how disruptive they would be from deadly to inconvenient. (1-10)
When you've done this prep accordingly
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
Hermit, I agree wholeheartedly, a couple of nukes in a few cities is a FAR bigger and more probable threat than a real EMP attack here in CONUS. Israel, England, and parts of Europe may easily see a HEMP attack (especially Europe if we keep our Missile Defense Shield going).
_____
Best advice I have heard in a long time to show prep priority.
My probability list would be close to this:
The Zombies 9 (That thin veil of civility shattered after people can't get what they want)
....Having to deal with the people that did not prep, and STILL don't get it 9
....Having to deal with the "wealthy welfare" and the "Me" generation that would never "work for their keep" once TSHTF because they don't work ....for their keep now. 9
....Having to deal with the crowd that thinks everything is "owed" to them 9
Financial collapse 8 (Freekin inevitable, and in the fairly near future)
Having to deal with30 million CARPLOADS of illegal invaders that should not be here, and now want to "finish the job" that they started here 8
Financial Slow Burn 7 (We are seeing that now, with the dollar not yet worthless, but daily worth less)
Barracck Abomination getting in 7 (Illegal Invader Advocate, and definitely does NOT have America's best interest at heart. "World Citizen Kane" Most of his quotes scare the #e!! out of me)
John McCain getting in 6 (Illegal Invader Advocate. Anybody that can get tripple AARP discounts, and has a mind like a steel trap (rusty and illegal in 37 states) should not be in the White House)
Bush staying in past his limit 6 (Just some of his quotes)
CONgress in general, but especially the liberal side 6 (CON, opposite of PRO, I rest my case)
Possibility of being out of communication range of the people I care about 5 (Most of those people are getting equipped now or are close to it)
Threat of local "Warlords" developing after TSHTF 4 (will probably spawn out of current gangs)
Having to deal with the "finalities" after TSHTF on a far more personal scale 3 (Backhoes are good at digging holes...)
Nuclear attacks here in the US 2 (There is just TOOOO much of the world that doesn't agree with one thing or another about the US)
Running out of Yoder's butter 1 (I've stocked up fairly well)
Running out of Orange Tic Tacs 0.8 (Nothing worse than running around after TSHTF with "victim" on your breath)
Running out of electricity or parts to keep that running 0.5 (Got solar? Got fuses? Got 350MCM cable?...)
EMP, NEMP, HEMP, HPM-EMP... 0.05 (Partly because I know how hard it would be for somebody to pull it off without missiles either over our northern border, or dozens launched from ships, and partly because I still feel that our enemies want us for what we have, and they need the power on to get it out.)
Loup
_____
Best advice I have heard in a long time to show prep priority.
My probability list would be close to this:
The Zombies 9 (That thin veil of civility shattered after people can't get what they want)
....Having to deal with the people that did not prep, and STILL don't get it 9
....Having to deal with the "wealthy welfare" and the "Me" generation that would never "work for their keep" once TSHTF because they don't work ....for their keep now. 9
....Having to deal with the crowd that thinks everything is "owed" to them 9
Financial collapse 8 (Freekin inevitable, and in the fairly near future)
Having to deal with
Financial Slow Burn 7 (We are seeing that now, with the dollar not yet worthless, but daily worth less)
Barracck Abomination getting in 7 (Illegal Invader Advocate, and definitely does NOT have America's best interest at heart. "World Citizen Kane" Most of his quotes scare the #e!! out of me)
John McCain getting in 6 (Illegal Invader Advocate. Anybody that can get tripple AARP discounts, and has a mind like a steel trap (rusty and illegal in 37 states) should not be in the White House)
Bush staying in past his limit 6 (Just some of his quotes)
CONgress in general, but especially the liberal side 6 (CON, opposite of PRO, I rest my case)
Possibility of being out of communication range of the people I care about 5 (Most of those people are getting equipped now or are close to it)
Threat of local "Warlords" developing after TSHTF 4 (will probably spawn out of current gangs)
Having to deal with the "finalities" after TSHTF on a far more personal scale 3 (Backhoes are good at digging holes...)
Nuclear attacks here in the US 2 (There is just TOOOO much of the world that doesn't agree with one thing or another about the US)
Running out of Yoder's butter 1 (I've stocked up fairly well)
Running out of Orange Tic Tacs 0.8 (Nothing worse than running around after TSHTF with "victim" on your breath)
Running out of electricity or parts to keep that running 0.5 (Got solar? Got fuses? Got 350MCM cable?...)
EMP, NEMP, HEMP, HPM-EMP... 0.05 (Partly because I know how hard it would be for somebody to pull it off without missiles either over our northern border, or dozens launched from ships, and partly because I still feel that our enemies want us for what we have, and they need the power on to get it out.)
Loup
Ranger Rainier
Inactive
I worry the most about loosing my computer to an EMP, because Iran wants the element of surprise. Think I'll start unplugging everything at night and before I go to work. You know the microwave, tv etc.
Reality Bites.
Thx Double_A
Reality Bites.
Thx Double_A
momof23goats
Deceased
every thing electric, or pretty much everything , will go dead. the hand crank stuff will work.
Ranger Rainier
Inactive
Momof23goats. After reading a lot on the EMP's, some things will make it through the pulse. The most practical plan I can come up with is;
1. unplugging the items after they are used. (saves on electricity)
2. take down any antenna (old tv thing hanging on house)
3. since microwave is unplugged put small electrical stuff (digital camera, Ipod) in there
4. freezer is plugged in on inside wall, bigger appliances are grounded
I can do this much. The savings will be invaluable.
1. unplugging the items after they are used. (saves on electricity)
2. take down any antenna (old tv thing hanging on house)
3. since microwave is unplugged put small electrical stuff (digital camera, Ipod) in there
4. freezer is plugged in on inside wall, bigger appliances are grounded
I can do this much. The savings will be invaluable.
Yes, but not from EMP. Probably electricity will become too expensive to use much in a few years, and it might be that some power plants won't be able to buy new some new parts for repair or maintenance.
RR, If you can rig up a way to disconnect your antenna lead-in and ground it that might be better/easier?
B-T-W in past issues of QST dealing with lightening strikes. They had stories of people unplugging electrical cords and leaving them on the floor. Lightening got into the home's electrical system and jumped a gap of a foot from the electical outlet on the wall to the power plug on the floor back into the item that was somehow grounded. They say to physically move the power plug a couple feet away from the electrical outlets. (yes I understand we are talking of orders of magnitude difference between lightening & HEMP)
Ranger Rainier
Inactive
Good advice. I can do that. I see the antenna lead-in wire and will run it down to the ground. Thx Double_A
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denfoote
Inactive
The EMP pulse will take out everything electronic that is SOLID STATE.
Electronic devices who's active circuit components are VACUUM TUBES will not be effected!!!
Why do you think the MiG 23 had vacuum tubes instead of transisters??
Why do you think it was so much heavier than our planes??
We were all told that the Soviets were X number of years behind us.
Not true!!
They were smart!!
They built an aircraft that could withstand the EM pulse and shockwave of a nuke explosion!!!