HEALTH Dealing with heat in SHTF
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momma_soapmaker
Disgusted
We have a Frigidaire countertop ice maker like that too. Works GREAT.
Milkweed Host
Veteran Member
an extended power outage during a summer heatwave would indicate
two problems, potable water and lack of some type of cooling.
One of the easiest ways to prepare/deal with both is the purchase of like even
the small five cubic foot chest freezer and gradually load it with bottled
water. The frozen bottle water will serve many uses in a power outage.
This of course is only temporary, but will allow people to survive until
better accommodations can be found.
there are different types of small battery operated fans on the market which
can be recharged by larger battery or solar panel.
There are also sturdy 12 volt dash fans for trucks and RV's on the market
two problems, potable water and lack of some type of cooling.
One of the easiest ways to prepare/deal with both is the purchase of like even
the small five cubic foot chest freezer and gradually load it with bottled
water. The frozen bottle water will serve many uses in a power outage.
This of course is only temporary, but will allow people to survive until
better accommodations can be found.
there are different types of small battery operated fans on the market which
can be recharged by larger battery or solar panel.
There are also sturdy 12 volt dash fans for trucks and RV's on the market
ShadowMan
Designated Grumpy Old Fart
I knew a grandmother that lived in one of the oldest Adobe homes in Los Angeles. The walls were easily three or four feet thick of adobe bricks. In the hot summer the inside was cool like a cave. In the winter a small fire would keep it toasty warm. The same effect would be in an underground home.
In the Middle East they build homes with flat roofs. Back before A/C people would sleep up on the flat roofs in the (slightly) cooler air and above the bugs and mosquitoes.
This is something I read about that was done in Arizona public plaza. If you live in a hot "dry" area you can easily add a cooling tower to your home or even an outdoor area. Basically a tall Chimney like structure. Think of a two to three foot square (round would also work) tube two stories tall. Now pump water up to the top of the tower into mist spray nozzles. As the mist falls and gains speed it cools, like a swamp cooler. The air coming out at the bottom of the tube would be at least ten to fifteen degrees cooler. A small solar/battery powered pump would be all you need. Of course a solar/battery swamp cooler would also work....but not very well in high humidity conditions.
In the Middle East they build homes with flat roofs. Back before A/C people would sleep up on the flat roofs in the (slightly) cooler air and above the bugs and mosquitoes.
This is something I read about that was done in Arizona public plaza. If you live in a hot "dry" area you can easily add a cooling tower to your home or even an outdoor area. Basically a tall Chimney like structure. Think of a two to three foot square (round would also work) tube two stories tall. Now pump water up to the top of the tower into mist spray nozzles. As the mist falls and gains speed it cools, like a swamp cooler. The air coming out at the bottom of the tube would be at least ten to fifteen degrees cooler. A small solar/battery powered pump would be all you need. Of course a solar/battery swamp cooler would also work....but not very well in high humidity conditions.
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bbbuddy
DEPLORABLE ME
Where I live those off grid are common. Most everyone has a 40 acres parcel, though some have been split to 5/10 acres. Those near a paved road or bigger dirt road often have power but off grid is common.
I like being independent of services, with the exception of internet. I could easily do without the cell phone too. But internet is where I do most of my learning/shopping/researching, etc. It's like living in the world biggest library without having to wander through the stacks, lol.
marsh
On TB every waking moment
My AC broke year before last. I use a floor heater with an oscillator that has a fan only setting. I garden late afternoon into the evening. The worst thing is that I have a car with broken A/C. I think I can recharge it, but I don't use it much. When I do, it is like an oven with the sweat pouring down into my eyes. I do drive with the windows open and have a clip on cigarette lighter plug in oscillating fan if the trip is longer.
Signwatcher
Has No Life - Lives on TB
My Mom would put my wrists under cold running water to cool me down when I was a young kid.
I used a wash cloth for my kids, as our vehicles never had air conditioning that worked . Car seats really heat a kid up fast.
I would have them put a wet rolled up wash cloth on their forehead to cool them down. When it got hot, I put a bit more water on it and shake it a bit to cook it back down.
Also used to lay down on the cool tiled bi-level basement floor in my youth. Now-a-days it's much more difficult to get up off the floor so there's that.
I used a wash cloth for my kids, as our vehicles never had air conditioning that worked . Car seats really heat a kid up fast.
I would have them put a wet rolled up wash cloth on their forehead to cool them down. When it got hot, I put a bit more water on it and shake it a bit to cook it back down.
Also used to lay down on the cool tiled bi-level basement floor in my youth. Now-a-days it's much more difficult to get up off the floor so there's that.
momma_soapmaker
Disgusted
Putting a large bowl of ice in front of a fan helps cooling off too.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Another thing to consider with extended power outages is high rise buildings will be death traps, especially older ones. The old ones have chronic mold and fungus issues abated with uv filtered hvac. Also high rise buildings have no concept of flow through air flow designs. NO elevators will also be a death knell but also a security measure.
ainitfunny
Saved, to glorify God.
My house is shaded by trees (mostly)
THAT ALONE will, (and a well insulated attic), makes a 20 degree difference between the
temp inside my house (with all doors and windows closed) and the temp everywhere around my house!
So if you dont have shade over your roof, & want a 20 degree cooler home like mine, DO SOMETHING TO SHADE THE HOUSE!
Get some tarps and string em up over the roof, making moving (not trapped) air space between the roof and the tarp.
You can also build a second lightweight roof over the primary one. ( for places like Texas where it gets 100 degrees for most of the year!)
It won't work to just lay the tarps on the roof!
THAT ALONE will, (and a well insulated attic), makes a 20 degree difference between the
temp inside my house (with all doors and windows closed) and the temp everywhere around my house!
So if you dont have shade over your roof, & want a 20 degree cooler home like mine, DO SOMETHING TO SHADE THE HOUSE!
Get some tarps and string em up over the roof, making moving (not trapped) air space between the roof and the tarp.
You can also build a second lightweight roof over the primary one. ( for places like Texas where it gets 100 degrees for most of the year!)
It won't work to just lay the tarps on the roof!
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Scrapman
Veteran Member
Soak t shirt in water and wear it . Soak bandana in water and wear it around your neck. Stay out of sun . This will keep you alive until evening. Hottest days of the summer here windows and curtains are shut , as soon as sun starts to sink whole house is opened up to let in the night coolness. When I was a kid all the mothers had a stove in the cellar for canning ,homemade chili sauce could be smelled all through the neighborhood at tomato time.
My mother would also throw us kids in the car , make some sandwiches and find a creek to hang out at for the day. Those were good times and cost nothing . What stories will the young tell now . I remember when I got a cell phone. It's pretty sad.
My mother would also throw us kids in the car , make some sandwiches and find a creek to hang out at for the day. Those were good times and cost nothing . What stories will the young tell now . I remember when I got a cell phone. It's pretty sad.
naegling62
Veteran Member
I'm joining the first wagon train to 5,000 feet.
Building something of the underground or earth sheltered type will be popular.
Probably gonna cause at least as much heat stroke as it prevents just trying to get it dug during a grid down scenario. Those earth movers, regardless of size, take a lot of diesel. No power, no pumps. That leaves hand digging and you aren't going to be able to do that at night with no lights. Sandy soil, assuming the water table is low enough (it isn't here in Florida and in the Gulf Coast region), will result in a lot of collapses.
I think people that are thinking, "Aw, I'll just dig out a basement" are kinda fooling themselves.
Maybe sod houses will help but then again, people aren't going to want to live like that. Too many assume they can make them just like their current, aboveground homes. Er ... nope.
"Well I'll go live in a cave." Right along with all the wild critters that have the same idea.
LOL. I'm really not trying to be a killjoy. I just think if people are going to dream, might as well make it something that they can actually implement.
My motto is do it now or don't do it at all and make do.
Yep... if you have appropriate soil for a root cellar, consider making it large enough for a couple of chairs, or even a cot for sleeping.
One thing I don't see mentioned are bandanas containing "water holding crystals". You can buy commercial ones, but they are simple to make and much less expensive to make yourself. You could also line the band and crown of a hat using them.
They are polymer crystals that absorb many times their weight in water. If you soak them in cold water, they will help keep you cool for a long time. They are sold as "moisture crystals " for potted plants or gardens.
Summerthyme
Heavy equipment is a handy thing, when you need it.
100gal of diesel will keep things going for several days.
Have a generator big enough to partially run (fuel pumps & refrigeration) the local, country store and a verbal understanding with them? Check
Worth the ongoing maintenance?
It is to me.
Without equipment, I'd still figure a way to do things.
I used to have golf-visor-type hats like that. Haven't seen them for years. Yup..they worked well because they didn't evaporate off so fast.
Now that's "dry" heat! Love it! Wet hats, wet scarves, wet shirt, run a hose all over you "dry" heat. Ahhh!
Zahra
Veteran Member
I bought several Coleman OneSource rechargeable camping system portable fans that I could recharge using the Bluetti 2400 portable solar power station that I bought before doing the whole house solar system. That way I could use the fans along with wet towels to keep cool. Back in Texas we'd just go play in the pool if the power went out.
Yes, but that's you. Not everyone does things your way. Matter of fact, I would probably say few do things your way. I was addressing people who don't do things your way.
People can get het up all they want to, doesn't mean the truth isn't the truth and that a lot of people - maybe not you - that have "plans" do not have the wherewithal to put those plans into action now, much less in a stressful and emergency scenario.
What's that old saw? Wish in one hand and poop in the other and see which one weighs more. Or the other ... Hope is not a strategy.
Our first house in Mississippi had an attic fan and we loved it. This house had one too but we vaulted the ceilings and took it out.
Your post reminded me just how much we loved it so we are discussing putting in a fan that will serve the same purpose. In my work room, I have a window fan blowing out that is going year round when I'm in there.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
The following was what they did in the 1800's before AC:
You actually have a built in cooler in your body. It's called sweat. As sweat evaporates it causes the body to cool.
What the old folks did was wore clothes that made them sweat. In summer that meant long sleeve shirts that were thick, but not wool, long pants, and a hat, cowboy out west, stetson, Fudora's in the east.
And then when not working pull the ladder back chair out to the shade tree, and catch a breeze. Same for women. Long dresses, and mid length sleeves, or long, and a bonnet.
You will note that in places like Saudia Arabia everybody wears long robes and head coverings. And our heat aint' nothing to their's.
Granted there are all kinds of plans for homes, old days was shotgun and dog trot, today it's underground or whatever. But those are for the long sited, and not something you put up for a summer.
I had a job where the ambient temp hovered in the 130's, and the molds we handled were at 400 degrees. In 30 minutes I looked like I had been standing in a shower, I was so wet with sweat. I could not go into the locker room, which had AC, to cool off. I would freeze. But I could stand in front of a fan, and shiver.
And in this day and age you're in luck. You do have an option to the khaki thick shirts. Under Amour makes a long sleeve t-shirt type thing, that is made from either polyester or nylon. Which absorbs the sweat quickly and evaporates the sweat fast. UA cost about 30.00 you can get them from Walmart for 8.00 I wore them at work. Best thing since Mint Juleps.
BTW instead of wearing a hat which traps heat coming off your head, may want to consider a bandana, IF you're not in the sunshine. otherwise, one that is well ventilated, cuz scalps burn too.
There is also another thing, that people don't want to do. Tans, as in browning your skin and getting cancer. Is a no-no for cooling. They may look cool, but are extremely hot. They absorb the heat, in stead of reflecting it.
No body in the 1800's and today in Saudia Arabia have tans.
To prove the point on evaporation helps in cooling: The Army issues canteen and canteen covers. Those covers are fury inside. You soak that in water and the evaporation of that water in the cover keeps the water in canteen, cool.
ShadowMan
Designated Grumpy Old Fart
In many hot dry climates the homes are built with central courtyards with fountains in the center and vines and plants surrounding and shading it. Walls had decorative bricks with lots of holes through them to channel and increase the velocity of any breeze that might be blowing. All this has a cooling effect on the air.
Look at the ancient homes built by people in hot humid climates....they are built on stilts with open sides and shading thatched roofs which provide insulation from the sun's heat.
We need to build SMARTER, not harder.......and not dependent on electricity or other fuels.
Look at the ancient homes built by people in hot humid climates....they are built on stilts with open sides and shading thatched roofs which provide insulation from the sun's heat.
We need to build SMARTER, not harder.......and not dependent on electricity or other fuels.
ShadowMan
Designated Grumpy Old Fart
I remember reading about building a Solar Powered Ice Maker in....I think it was an old Mother Earth News magazine. Using only the power of the sun to heat a solution of Ammonia in a sealed system to cool water enough to create ice. No moving parts, completely sealed, no maintenance required and no energy needed except from the sun.
There is usually a wide spectrum of solutions to different problems, with varying degrees of effectiveness.
Present them all and peeps can pick and choose the parts that work for them.
Been looking for a big roll of poly pipe at garage sale prices.
Sunk in the pond with a small solar water pump, run through an old A/C coil...quite a bit of cool to be had there.
Uses a Fresnel lense. You can also use an old frig out of an RV or similar set up that already runs on that type of gas. You just have to get the right focus.
ETA: I think the kind used for moonshine is called a wort cooler. Something like that.
Hypothetically you can take an old refrigerated truck or refrigerator train car and make a large walk-in cooler using the Fresnel lense. Just a matter of making sure that the gas you are using to remove the heat from the interior doesn't escape in a leak or anything like that.
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West
Senior
To get a grasp on what your saying.... let me know if im wrong..just musing....
It's all about moving heat. Can also stay with the original design on the old absorption type refrigerators/freezer and use a small pilot light from the LP gas system.
But yes if the sun is shining using a fresnel lense will create the same thing a small pilot light does, condensing the ammonia back to a liquid and to move it into the evaporator to expand and pick up the heat then to a condenser to remove said heat. Then back threw the system.
West
Senior
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As I wrote before my a/c has stopped working for whatever reason. A little hot outside. Since the smoke has ended I opened up the windows last night to cool the place, closed them and curtains this morning, which i spent moving stuff and putting a shelf together to make some room. Sitting here reading Volume II of Caro's book on LBJ (now THERE is a son of a bitch). Fan on, having a beer. Livable so far. I may get a dehumidifier to help.
ShadowMan
Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Solar Powered Ice Maker
Producing ice without electricity just got a lot easier thanks to these engineering students from San Jose State University. Their system uses solar heat to facilitate evaporation of a coolant. When the sun goes down and the coolant turns back to liquid, its temperature drops drastically due to extreme pressure differences. The unit can produce 14 pounds of ice per day with zero carbon footprint. It has no moving parts and an entirely sealed system, this should mean that the only maintenance necessary would be keeping the unit clean.
The Mother Earth News version uses black iron pipe filled with Ammonia, and a chest freezer as the freeze box. During the day the black iron pipe heats up the Ammonia turning it into a gas. At night as the Ammonia cools and recondenses back into a liquid it draws the heat out of the freezer box, thus creating ice. No moving parts, no power other than the heat of the sun to run it.
With a little imagination I'm sure you could create an air conditioning system of some sort to cool down a house or room.
Producing ice without electricity just got a lot easier thanks to these engineering students from San Jose State University. Their system uses solar heat to facilitate evaporation of a coolant. When the sun goes down and the coolant turns back to liquid, its temperature drops drastically due to extreme pressure differences. The unit can produce 14 pounds of ice per day with zero carbon footprint. It has no moving parts and an entirely sealed system, this should mean that the only maintenance necessary would be keeping the unit clean.
The Mother Earth News version uses black iron pipe filled with Ammonia, and a chest freezer as the freeze box. During the day the black iron pipe heats up the Ammonia turning it into a gas. At night as the Ammonia cools and recondenses back into a liquid it draws the heat out of the freezer box, thus creating ice. No moving parts, no power other than the heat of the sun to run it.
With a little imagination I'm sure you could create an air conditioning system of some sort to cool down a house or room.
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Yes. The trick is good insulation and to not stuff too much "hot" into your cool area because you create an imbalance. I've seen a set up that works like that but never operated one myself. I'm told you have to drop the temp, then add your items into the large cooler area slowly enough that your system isn't have to fight to do its job. Sort of like the first time you would turn on an old frig/freezer. You have to let it cool down and then you would stock it slowly or it would take a lot longer to reach maximum efficiency and you could lose things like your milk.
Hope I am explaining it correctly.
SurvivalRing
Rich Fleetwood - Founder - author/coder/podcaster
My postal years were April 1991 to March 1993 in Farmers Branch/North Dallas. Grew up in far north Dallas in Plano. I was used to the heat of north Texas, and adjusted accordingly, and moved to Bessemer, Alabama in mid-March 1993, to September 2000. This added a whole new level of hell to the equation.
Spending many vacations while growing up, in Houston to visit family, or El Paso to visit more family, taught me that south Texas was incredibly humid, and we'd spend very little time outside. One time my mom took us to Herman Zoo in Houston on a too-hot day, and I wound up with heat stroke....only time in my life. I folded onto the pavement and woke up laying down on a cement park bench under a shade tree with a wet towel on my face. That was a bit scary at 8 years old.
From 1976 to 78, I worked part-time after school with my best friend at a plastics extrusion factory at the end of the line, peeling trim off the edges and loading into boxes from 2x4' to 4x8', and after doing this for a couple of shifts, I got really good at it. Other times I'd move empty boxes of raw plastic, out of the vacuum loader and replace with 4x4x4' boxes full of virgin or recycled plastic.
Vacuums sucked up raw plastic or reground, add in color, and it all falls into a cone on top of the machine and gravity drops into the cool end of the 30 foot long extruder, being heated up during the process of traveling the length of the 8" diameter screw, until it came out of the die extremely hot and pliable, and was pulled through rollers, either smooth or textured, and then was pulled another 50-60' with multiple fans cooling the plastic before a cross-cut saw cut to the precise length needed.
The temps during the summer were always above 120-130 F. Workers on the line had multiple big fans blowing on them that made it livable.
Not so with carrying mail in north central Alabama. Humidity most of the time was 70 to 80%, with 100% at times. I learned to carry two half gallons of ice water, and on really bad days, Gatorade throughout the day. I'd sweat heavily all day and wore a lightweight pith helmet all day. Never fell out from overheating, but I was damn uncomfortable some days.
Delivering mail at the circuit court offices in Bessemer, downtown in the main business part of town
It's been hot a few times here in Wyoming. At the honor farm, I'd run the hay crews in the mornings or evenings, running anywhere from two tractors with gooseneck flatbeds, or those and two or three hay buses (full-size school bus converted into a huge flatbed by moving up the last three rows of the bus to just behind the front seat, and we'd put away from 40,000 to 55,000 small (80-100 lbs) bales of hay per summer for the cattle and mustangs. I'd track the numbers each shift, manage the inmate's needs and safety, and would frisk every inmate at the end of that shift before they went back inside the yard...and let me tell you....nothing is as nasty as frisking inmates heaped in sweat, covered in loose hay particles, before returning to the yard. That was hot, nasty work.
Knowing both extreme heat, and extreme cold, and what causes it all ( certified storm spotter, as well as several meteorological classes in my return to college) made planning the hay days, with dozens and dozens of inmates, work safely and efficiently.
I'd prep the 5-gallon igloos of ice water in the kitchen, and many times Gatorade, before the hay shift...and never had an inmate pass out or heat stroke during the shifts.
In a real-life SHTF situation, the amount of strenuous activity would be minimal compared to the above...but would have to be taken into consideration.
Spending many vacations while growing up, in Houston to visit family, or El Paso to visit more family, taught me that south Texas was incredibly humid, and we'd spend very little time outside. One time my mom took us to Herman Zoo in Houston on a too-hot day, and I wound up with heat stroke....only time in my life. I folded onto the pavement and woke up laying down on a cement park bench under a shade tree with a wet towel on my face. That was a bit scary at 8 years old.
From 1976 to 78, I worked part-time after school with my best friend at a plastics extrusion factory at the end of the line, peeling trim off the edges and loading into boxes from 2x4' to 4x8', and after doing this for a couple of shifts, I got really good at it. Other times I'd move empty boxes of raw plastic, out of the vacuum loader and replace with 4x4x4' boxes full of virgin or recycled plastic.
Vacuums sucked up raw plastic or reground, add in color, and it all falls into a cone on top of the machine and gravity drops into the cool end of the 30 foot long extruder, being heated up during the process of traveling the length of the 8" diameter screw, until it came out of the die extremely hot and pliable, and was pulled through rollers, either smooth or textured, and then was pulled another 50-60' with multiple fans cooling the plastic before a cross-cut saw cut to the precise length needed.
The temps during the summer were always above 120-130 F. Workers on the line had multiple big fans blowing on them that made it livable.
Not so with carrying mail in north central Alabama. Humidity most of the time was 70 to 80%, with 100% at times. I learned to carry two half gallons of ice water, and on really bad days, Gatorade throughout the day. I'd sweat heavily all day and wore a lightweight pith helmet all day. Never fell out from overheating, but I was damn uncomfortable some days.
Delivering mail at the circuit court offices in Bessemer, downtown in the main business part of town
It's been hot a few times here in Wyoming. At the honor farm, I'd run the hay crews in the mornings or evenings, running anywhere from two tractors with gooseneck flatbeds, or those and two or three hay buses (full-size school bus converted into a huge flatbed by moving up the last three rows of the bus to just behind the front seat, and we'd put away from 40,000 to 55,000 small (80-100 lbs) bales of hay per summer for the cattle and mustangs. I'd track the numbers each shift, manage the inmate's needs and safety, and would frisk every inmate at the end of that shift before they went back inside the yard...and let me tell you....nothing is as nasty as frisking inmates heaped in sweat, covered in loose hay particles, before returning to the yard. That was hot, nasty work.
Knowing both extreme heat, and extreme cold, and what causes it all ( certified storm spotter, as well as several meteorological classes in my return to college) made planning the hay days, with dozens and dozens of inmates, work safely and efficiently.
I'd prep the 5-gallon igloos of ice water in the kitchen, and many times Gatorade, before the hay shift...and never had an inmate pass out or heat stroke during the shifts.
In a real-life SHTF situation, the amount of strenuous activity would be minimal compared to the above...but would have to be taken into consideration.
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Absorption cooling is kinda limited by ambient temps.
These systems don't make as many BTUs as compressor type systems.
Imaging putting a 1ton a/c in an area that really wants 2 tons.
These systems don't make as many BTUs as compressor type systems.
Imaging putting a 1ton a/c in an area that really wants 2 tons.
People would adapt. For every ONE person that actually succumbed to heat injury, 99 would wail & THINK they were dying.
Most every Sunday the devil causes my inner misanthrope to awaken. First some old skinny woman comes in complaining that the classroom is too cold. Within minutes some hefty granny waddles in crying it is too hot.
Relativity dear people.
I once delivered a couple of Walmart bags of freshly picked transparent apples to an old neighbor in his 90s. He had a fire in his woodstove! I honestly did think I would stroke out before I beat feet out of there.
Even marginally healthy people can grow accustomed to temp changes if they drink plenty of water and limit activity. Most people limited their physical activity years ago.
The people I feel bad for that can't adapt are those in homes poorly designed for life without climate control.
Motor homes, campers and mobile homes can be deathly sweatboxes if you're not accustomed. I know people that live in them without climate control but they're used to it already.
Most every Sunday the devil causes my inner misanthrope to awaken. First some old skinny woman comes in complaining that the classroom is too cold. Within minutes some hefty granny waddles in crying it is too hot.
Relativity dear people.
I once delivered a couple of Walmart bags of freshly picked transparent apples to an old neighbor in his 90s. He had a fire in his woodstove! I honestly did think I would stroke out before I beat feet out of there.
Even marginally healthy people can grow accustomed to temp changes if they drink plenty of water and limit activity. Most people limited their physical activity years ago.
The people I feel bad for that can't adapt are those in homes poorly designed for life without climate control.
Motor homes, campers and mobile homes can be deathly sweatboxes if you're not accustomed. I know people that live in them without climate control but they're used to it already.
ainitfunny
Saved, to glorify God.
"Motor homes, campers and mobile homes can be deathly sweatboxes if you're not accustomed. I know people that live in them without climate control but they're used to it already."
I've seen MANY of them with drive under, permanent hard roofs (pole buildings with no walls) built over them to protect them from sun and rain.
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