PREP Communications during emergency...forget 3G or cell phone!

[optimistic pessimist]

For anyone missing the PNW snow thread, I am in one of the hardest hit areas, just now getting out with 3G for the first time in a few days. Our phone lines are still down (even with a landline), cell phones were jammed....no texts, calls or 3G getting out, and roads pretty much not an option due to 2 ft of snow, huge fir trees down everywhere and power lines....100 lb branches falling. Temperature INSIDE many of the homes around here is 48 degrees. Outside is in the 30s. It has been scary trying to check in on elderly family/friends as all lines are down/jammed.

So don't count on using your cell if TSHTF....I am thinking CB or some other sort of radio for family/friends nearby would be best...any ideas???

 

[Double_A]

Best suggestion is the same as has been said here a hundred times, Ham Radio.

However GRMS will allow repeaters and higher power and does not require you to take a test, but it does require you purchase a license.

Gear will cost several hundred

 

[Double_A]

Speaking of communication (well broadcast communication anyway) I was down to Fry's Electronics and they only carry ONE model of portable battery operated TV.

If there is a disaster or quake or something and the power is out you don't have much of a choice if you want to watch TV news on a small battery operated TV.

Don't forget all the radios that can pick up TV sound are now useless.

About 20 models of small portable battery operated DVD players though.

 

[optimistic pessimist]

Double_A.... We had the small portable TV and used it during the last big ice storm we had, except we couldn't get any tv signal even with modified antennae. It was only good for playing a plug-in PAC man game. :-(

Are there any handheld radios with a 15 to 20 mile range?

 

[Double_A]

Double_A.... We had the small portable TV and used it during the last big ice storm we had, except we couldn't get any tv signal even with modified antennae. It was only good for playing a plug-in PAC man game. :-(

Are there any handheld radios with a 15 to 20 mile range?

Handheld radios generally have no more that 5 or 6 watts of power and with their small antenna (crappy) antennas range is only going to be around one mile per watt of power at ground level. That means about five mile range, plus or minus 2 miles.

With two fixed base stations with say 20 watts power and both with roof mounted 20' antenna you might get 15-20 miles, I'm guessing.

With a mountaintop repeater that's operating you could double that range again.

Your basic cellphone is talking generally not more than 2 miles away to a cellsite with millions worth of cellphone gear connected to the landlines.

In the US regulation on handheld cellphones limit their power to a maximum of 0.6 watts.

 

[Vicki]

Glad you're ok OP. Stay safe!

Vicki

 

[Publius]

The CBs are ok if you got friends and family setup with them and you can transmit 20 miles easy, but there is a little more to it and best have someone thats into it help out with the setup and whats needed in an all out power outage.

 

[LONEWOLF]

Check into the newer, better Motorola Talkabout hand-helds that have both GMRS and FRS frequency capabilities. Optimistically rated distance-wise, but with some height they can transmit a good fair distance on GMRS, 5-8 miles and sometimes more.....

 

[TerryK]

Government agencies can get a code for there employees that allows them priority on cell coms. The program is called GETS. Its no guarantee but it usually works. Also text will sometimes work when normal voice will not.

 

[Double_A]

Speaking of height, during the CB craze I drove halfway up a 4000' local Mountain, Mt. Hamilton. I snapped my mag mount antenna on my truck and got on the air asking for a radio check. Loud and clear S9 said a guy in San Francisco 45 miles to the north. When said I was east of San Jose I created quite a stir and within a couple of minutes had a dozen people want to talk to me.

It wasn't my CB or my antenna that got me 45 miles on 4 watts, it was my being 2000 ft up.

 

[Double_A]

Government agencies can get a code for there employees that allows them priority on cell coms. The program is called GETS. Its no guarantee but it usually works. Also text will sometimes work when normal voice will not.

Yes to both, as long as the cellular infrastructure is working.

 

[FarOut]

A little point about amateur (ham) radio; with the power out the repeaters will quickly go down. VHF/UHF will be limited to line-of-sight. Your HF transceiver will get you contacts (as long as your batteries last) via ionospheric bounce with stations hundreds of miles away but local coverage will depend on antenna height. The CB, FRS and GMRS bands will probably be jammed with calls. Don't assume communication will be easy or reliable, even with a ham radio setup.

 

[Captain D]

OP--unless you and the folks you want to check on are willing to purchase, install and operate an alternate comm system, be it ham, CB or GMRS, then it sounds like you will not know much about their status until phone service is restored.

If you think about that, it would seem that we were better connected and able to communicate in the seventies, during the height of the CB craze, than we are today with all our wonderful cellular devices. It's much like there once was a time when, if you wanted to black out New York City, you'd have to go house-to-house and steal all the lantern fuel, whereas today you only need to blow out a substation somewhere. As technology improves we become so dependent on it that we have abandoned that which seems old-fashioned, but how quickly a simple turn of events can make us miss the old ways.

 

[TheGatherer]

Antennas are the big difference... I've 'talked' to a guy 35 miles away with less than 1 watt of power with my vhf hand held ham radio connected to a 10 element beam antenna about 45' high... his antenna was also high on a tower... If you can get.. elevation or a good antenna, power is good but not everything.

I bought a couple of pairs of Motorola FRS/GMRS 'handitalki's' for $21 on clearance and use them a lot for 'going into the store', driving in convoy, and so on... they are good for 1.5mi. here in the N FLA woods...

Having been a 'Ham' since the '80's, I use my Yaseu FT 857d as a mobile rig into a Yaesu FC40 antenna tuner and a 103" whip antenna... it's good 40m to 6m and have a separate mag mount antenna for VHF/UHF...
40m is good for most of the SE from here in FLA, 20m is good for all CONUS and EU, the others are 'hit and miss' due to my not monitoring them as much...

CB,... Well, my Dad was a truckdriver and gave me a 40 channel with SSB back in the 70's and living in the high desert of N AZ I could cover the USA with 'skip' and back then you could leave the volume up even if the kids were in the car... now I use it for problem on the road information only... I had a set up once with a 4 element beam @ 112' and with an amplifier I could 'talk' 30mi. from a certain high spot when I was in town (NCenFLA)

There's a lot of options out there, but you might want to read/try them before you need them...

 

[WalknTrot]

Even a simple battery powered A.M. radio can be a big help. During most severe storms, your local A.M. station will go with call-ins, reports from police, rescue, weather, etc.

Also, a used (ebay) police scanner is fun and informative listening.

As for personal comms...well...stay home and stay safe. Then nobody has to worry about you.

 

[optimistic pessimist]

All good ideas! Thanks! I do think we should be prepping more for complete loss of communications. We learned it is your neighbors who suddenly become your best friends in a situation like this....all checking in on each other and watching each other's homes for safety (falling trees).

CB was my first thought, as if in a high location sometimes it will travel many miles, and not as many people have them nowadays. I used to have one in my car and we used to play with it up in the mountains. Worked great, although I am unsure of how far we were reaching. I was hoping maybe the handhelds had evolved more but looks like no.

Also, I was always told the landlines would still work with an old corded phone. Nope. Our power is on and phones still out, plus jammed lines. Yes to the AM radio.....although if we had a real bad emergency and even that was down it will be pretty scary....it means back to the neighbors/community.

 

[Captain D]

I think the most valuable piece of radio gear you could have in the OP's scenario would be a scanner. At least with that you might have some idea of what is going on out there from police, department of transportation, and ham/GMRS transmissions. You need to find out what freqs are active in your area and pre-program your unit.

Unfortunately, the concept of a local A.M. station is fast disappearing. Most of them have gone to broadcasting satellite feeds with little, if any, local, programming. I don't think of them as the asset they once were.

 

[nomifyle]

So don't count on using your cell if TSHTF....I am thinking CB or some other sort of radio for family/friends nearby would be best...any ideas???

Definitely don't count on cell phones, after Katrina I'd say most 504 area code cells phones didn't work for a while.

Judy

 

[NBCsurvivor]

Speaking of height, during the CB craze I drove halfway up a 4000' local Mountain, Mt. Hamilton. I snapped my mag mount antenna on my truck and got on the air asking for a radio check. Loud and clear S9 said a guy in San Francisco 45 miles to the north. When said I was east of San Jose I created quite a stir and within a couple of minutes had a dozen people want to talk to me.

It wasn't my CB or my antenna that got me 45 miles on 4 watts, it was my being 2000 ft up.

Yea.

Line of sight.

Pretty cool. I haven't messed with CB comms in a long time. Mostly been doing FRS/GMRS and fiddling with HAM as time permits.

 

[sardog]

For anyone missing the PNW snow thread, I am in one of the hardest hit areas, just now getting out with 3G for the first time in a few days. Our phone lines are still down (even with a landline), cell phones were jammed....no texts, calls or 3G getting out, and roads pretty much not an option due to 2 ft of snow, huge fir trees down everywhere and power lines....100 lb branches falling. Temperature INSIDE many of the homes around here is 48 degrees. Outside is in the 30s. It has been scary trying to check in on elderly family/friends as all lines are down/jammed.

So don't count on using your cell if TSHTF....I am thinking CB or some other sort of radio for family/friends nearby would be best...any ideas???

You are not completely without commo. You are still on the Internet.

 

[NBCsurvivor]

You are not completely without commo. You are still on the Internet.

3g = internet

 

[Siskiyoumom]

In a major disaster, land line capability is dedicated to emergency services.
Immediately after the Loma Prieta quake in the S.F. Bay area, I was able to call
long distance from northern California to San Leandro to check on relatives.
I made the call as the quake was happening on the t.v. I was watching the ball game.
I tried calling the same number 15 minutes later and was unable to get through due to all circuits are busy. I was not able to call south and get through for four days.
A tidbit I learned during my CERT training was that in a major quake, they advised folks to hang up pay phone hand receivers, due to the fact that if the majority of phones were off the hook, it would be a snafu in the phone grid systems.
Also having an out of state contact number is a good strategy for communication, because long distance calls are more likely to get out, than local calls.
Now that there are few and far between public pay phones, I don't think it is that much of an issue to hang up the phone : )???

 

[wab54]

All of this is covered in another thread.

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/show...am-radio-rig&p=4268874&highlight=#post4268874


GMRS, FRS and CB radios are not anything to bet your life on. They are "toys" for want of a better term. They are only good for about one mile. Find out about Ham Radio and you'll be able to do a better job with your communications.

Walkie Talkie = up to 5 watts= covers about 5 miles at the most
mobile uhf/vhf radio = up to 50 watts= covers about 20 miles at the most.
HF radio = up to 100 watts= covers world wide.

You can use a repeater and increase your range but you cannot depend on that. Also you can get amplifiers for all these radios. With a 12v battery, wire antenna and a HF radio you can talk up to around the world from your house or the deep woods.

Dont depend on a "toy".

WAB

 

[JF&P]

Best suggestion is the same as has been said here a hundred times, Ham Radio.

However GRMS will allow repeaters and higher power and does not require you to take a test, but it does require you purchase a license.

Gear will cost several hundred

What is GRMS?

I put it into Google and well...my question is still unanswered.

Do you have a link or example of this kind of equipment?

 

[Kent]

What is GRMS?

I put it into Google and well...my question is still unanswered.

Do you have a link or example of this kind of equipment?

General Radio Mobile Service. Google "GRMS radios" for examples.

 

[Jerry]

Try GMRS radio.

 

[William]

For anyone missing the PNW snow thread, I am in one of the hardest hit areas, just now getting out with 3G for the first time in a few days. Our phone lines are still down (even with a landline), cell phones were jammed....no texts, calls or 3G getting out, and roads pretty much not an option due to 2 ft of snow, huge fir trees down everywhere and power lines....100 lb branches falling. Temperature INSIDE many of the homes around here is 48 degrees. Outside is in the 30s. It has been scary trying to check in on elderly family/friends as all lines are down/jammed.

So don't count on using your cell if TSHTF....I am thinking CB or some other sort of radio for family/friends nearby would be best...any ideas???

We have gone over this many time the simple answer is get a Ham Radio Lic. and the get set up......... Go to ARRL http://www.arrl.org/ and they have everything to need to get started on a LIC. During the wind storm we had here in SLC are with winds over 100 mph all our power when down over a large are all the Cities and Counties activated there EOC, I was called down to the County Sheriff office to man the Ham Radio at the Sheriff Office EOC. everything was handled by Ham Radio nets.

HAM radios come to the rescue during Utah wind storm
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=18335745

 

[Racing22]

What is GRMS?

I put it into Google and well...my question is still unanswered.

Do you have a link or example of this kind of equipment?

Switch your letters, it's not GRMS it's GMRS..

 

[NBCsurvivor]

All of this is covered in another thread.

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/show...am-radio-rig&p=4268874&highlight=#post4268874


GMRS, FRS and CB radios are not anything to bet your life on. They are "toys" for want of a better term. They are only good for about one mile. Find out about Ham Radio and you'll be able to do a better job with your communications.

Walkie Talkie = up to 5 watts= covers about 5 miles at the most
mobile uhf/vhf radio = up to 50 watts= covers about 20 miles at the most.
HF radio = up to 100 watts= covers world wide.

You can use a repeater and increase your range but you cannot depend on that. Also you can get amplifiers for all these radios. With a 12v battery, wire antenna and a HF radio you can talk up to around the world from your house or the deep woods.

Dont depend on a "toy".

WAB

WoW!!

Snob much?

That's the same as saying that I shouldn't bet my life on a shotgun just because it doesn't have the same range as a rifle.

Are all HAM's snipers with SAT Comms and using drones?

I mean I knew you guys/gals with the license were l33t but if ur in an underground bunker -8km from the surface just let me know and I'll bline it for the nearest 25$ exam and jump right in!

 

[one4freedom]

It's GMRS: General Mobile Radio Service

 

[Captain D]

We have gone over this many time the simple answer is get a Ham Radio Lic.

Well, we go over this every time, and I always ask the same question, so I will ask again, hoping to finally get an answer: "How, exaclty, is a fringe activity like hobby radio going to enable the OP to check in on elderly friends and relatives?"

 

[L.A.B.]

Speaking of communications...

Don't forget all the radios that can pick up TV sound are now useless...

Double_A, any idea who or what may have picked up the former TV frequencies?

 

[LoupGarou]

While I usually suggest Ham radio, just because of it's adaptability in bad times, and the fact that most of the equipment (including the repeaters around here), can be battery and solar powered, GMRS and CB comes in a not too far away second and third place. GMRS (and I'm talking TRUE GMRS, not the bubble pack radios) has potential because it can be used with external antennas, and use repeaters. Almost all of the bubble pack radios can't use repeaters (Garmin Rinos are one of the FEW exceptions). And NONE of the bubble pack radios allow you to remove the antenna and use a remote antenna (Antenna height, not power out means everything on VHF, UHF, and above).

Check out the local listings for GMRS repeaters in your area BEFORE thinking about going the GMRS route. You need a repeater that is within 20-30 miles of you and where you want to go for it to work well with a handheld GMRS radio. You can check here for repeaters in your area:
http://www.mygmrs.com/browse
Keep in mind that while some are open, others DO want you to help pay for the upkeep of the repeater (they can get expensive). Some are members only, and others are open. No matter what the status, GET PERMISSION from the owner or owning group BEFORE you decide to use the repeater, as you are using someone else's property and efforts.



If you are looking for a good GMRS handheld radio, look for one that:
Has a removable antenna with a standard connector. A FRS/GMRS hybrid radio can not have a removable antenna (FCC rules), so they are about useless outside of VERY local use.
Has 4 watts maximum, but the ability to drop that power if you want, preferably to a 2 watt, and 1 watt or less setting.
Get one with at LEAST 40 memory positions. While there are only 22 "official" channels, you will want to be able to setup both odd pairs (for some repeaters), as well as paired channels with CTCSS tones (sub-audible tones needed to activate repeaters). The more channels, the less you will have to reprogram your radio. And most of the GMRS radios out there will NOT program from the front panel keypad, you need a PC.
MAKE SURE THAT THE RADIO IS FCC PART 95 CERTIFIED. There are a LOT of chinese knockoffs that are out there, and even a few that have FCC "certification", but they usually are not part 95 certified, so getting caught using one can get you into trouble (you may get fined, lose your radio, and possibly your GMRS license). Get a legitimate GMRS radio.

If you want a mobile unit, look for one with at least 40 watts (50 watts is the maximum the FCC allows). Also make sure that it is Part 95 certified.

On any model, mobile or handheld, make SURE that you get everything you need to program the radio. WIthout this, the radio is usually useless, or at most, only will work on the channels as a simplex unit (transmits on the same frequency as it receives). This will not work for repeaters, since you need to transmit on 467.XXXX MHz, and receive on 462.XXXX MHz.

Get your license. One license covers your whole family, and no tests are needed. With all of the bubble pack radios that have been sold, the real GMRS users are VERY quick to go after (or have the FCC go after) people using the GMRS frequencies that do not have a license. This is especially true if you try using their repeaters without a license. When the FCC created the FRS radio service, they made it use the same interstitial frequencies that the GMRS users use, effectively dumping millions of people on those channels "for free", and making the licensed users of that band, have to deal with the unlicensed users of FRS radios. They are not too happy with just that part, the other problems that the FRS users are just icing on the cake.

A good example of a FCC certified, GMRS handheld is here:
http://www.gmrsoutlet.com/product.php?productid=44&cat=3&page=1

More info on GMRS:
http://home.provide.net/~prsg/wi-gmrs.htm

Once you get your license, and get your radio, get (or better yet, make) a set of good external antennas. Use a good 5/8ths wave for the car and the house, and make a 8 section coaxial collinear for portable use.

A good coax collinear design (just recalculate the figures for 465MHz instead of 444MHz):
http://www.rason.org/Projects/collant/collant.htm
I'm using one of these antennas, 12 feet off the ground, with one to two watts and get into repeaters 40-50 miles away. If I raise it to 45 feet off the ground, I can hear signals from as far away as the DC area, and use repeaters 60+ miles away. And the antenna is portable, with a rope loop at the top so that I can pull it up into a tree if I need to use it on the go.

Once TSHTF, there are going to be a lot of cell towers that will have "gone dark". Imagine the range that you can hear signals from if you get your antenna hoisted up that high...


Loup

 

[LoupGarou]

Double_A, any idea who or what may have picked up the former TV frequencies?

They are still using those same frequencies. Channel 20 in analog (NTSC), uses the same frequencies as channel 20 in digital (ATSC). Both are in the 506-512MHz space, just above both GMRS, the 70cm ham band, and the 450MHz public service bands. The difference is that the old analog channels were 6 MHz wide, and each channel is spaced 6 MHz from the last because of that. Now each channel is still spaced 6MHz from the last, but each digital channel can handle dozens of actual feeds. The main reason that the digital changeover was done, is to get more channels on the air, using the same bandwidth. This means that more money moving around, and more taxes coming in. There were about two dozen channels at the top (channels in the 70s and 80s) that were "taken back" from the broadcasters, to be either sold at auction to companies that want them (cellular, Wireless internet...), or used by first responders.

If you want to see what a Analog (NTSC) channel looks like, versus a Digital (ATSC) one looks like, here are the plots from the two:
Analog: http://hamradio.arc.nasa.gov/NTSCtransmission.jpg
Digital: http://hamradio.arc.nasa.gov/ATSCtransmission.jpg

More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_channel_frequencies

Loup

 

[Double_A]

In a major disaster, land line capability is dedicated to emergency services.
Immediately after the Loma Prieta quake in the S.F. Bay area, I was able to call
long distance from northern California to San Leandro to check on relatives.
I made the call as the quake was happening on the t.v. I was watching the ball game.
I tried calling the same number 15 minutes later and was unable to get through due to all circuits are busy. I was not able to call south and get through for four days.
A tidbit I learned during my CERT training was that in a major quake, they advised folks to hang up pay phone hand receivers, due to the fact that if the majority of phones were off the hook, it would be a snafu in the phone grid systems.
Also having an out of state contact number is a good strategy for communication, because long distance calls are more likely to get out, than local calls.
Now that there are few and far between public pay phones, I don't think it is that much of an issue to hang up the phone : )???

My dad was a Network Engineer for PacBell, he told me all Central Offices(CO's) were operational during and after the 1989 quake except one in the San Ramon area. It's just that they were flooded with calls. He explained again as he had many times that the telephone system was designed to be part of the National Defense infrastructure. TV shows & Military comms from coast to coast went over AT&T long lines. Buildings, gear and power were designed robust to meet disaster or war conditions (even some underground switching centers were designed for nuke hits) This is why the Military argued against the breakup of Ma Bell.

That's been a couple decades though and frankly he's not around and doubtful if the phone companies have maintained that to the same level they once did.

Having said all that, if the phone cable is cut between you and the Central Office or the Cellsite that's handling your cell call your screwed. The best you can hope for with your cellphone is to move until you get another cellsite to take your call.

I would imagine that all the cellsites that have lost AC power feeds have pretty much exhausted their battery back-up power as well.

When you have millions of dollars of complicated infrastructure between two people talking, you have millions of point of failure. When you have two people talking direct (simplex) on radio gear they control and maintain, you have more control over the situation.

 

[LoupGarou]

Well, we go over this every time, and I always ask the same question, so I will ask again, hoping to finally get an answer: "How, exaclty, is a fringe activity like hobby radio going to enable the OP to check in on elderly friends and relatives?"

Most Amateurs in an emergency will help relay messages using any medium. I have even hand delivered messages for people local to me. After TSHTF, many hams will be the long links that will connect the more local, non-ham radio networks. RACES and other groups already do this, and Amateur operators in general see this as the ONLY way to get the info in and out to as many people as possible. GMRS will not work reliably over 70 miles in most situations. CB might work 10 miles great one day, and 100+ the next, but there are no guarantees on anything past 100 miles.

The Amateur radio service has one thing that I have yet to see in any other radio service, and that is a homogenized, coherent "community" that wraps around both the technology and the people involved and make it work like no other. GMRS is great, as is CB, and both are useful in emergencies, especially locally. But the problem is that unless you already have all of the distant stations you want to talk to, informed as to your schedules (and the schedules of the rest of the nets), there is no way to guarantee that you can get in touch with the other groups. The other problem is that you are limited to (at least legally) 40 channels of AM CB, another 80 "channels" of SSB CB, and 22 channels of GMRS to work with, and all of these channels are stuck in one band for CB, and one band for GMRS. If the conditions and propagation are not right, you don't have a choice to change to a different band.

As I said above, both GMRS, and CB are great services and systems. If one (or both) of those are where you want to be, and you don't need anything else, then make sure that you have the BEST equipment, and especially the best antennas, that you can have. DO NOT SKIMP and "cheap out" on anything, as one bad piece of equipment takes you from working, to NOT working, real quickly. If you want a good CB, make SURE that it has SSB capability. If you want to get into GMRS, make SURE that it is a true GMRS radio, and not a FRS/GMRS hybrid radio, or you will have to live with a LOT of limitations.

A good plan if you don't want to bother with the Amateur radio route, would be to have BOTH a SSB capable CB, and a good set of true GMRS radios, along with a set or two of FRS/GMRS radios to use locally. This would allow regional communications on the CB, using SSB, as well as local to regional comms on the GMRS radios, all the while being able to talk to the hundreds of locals that have either standard (AM) CBs, or the FRS/GMRS bubble pack radios. Amateur radio operators (at least all of the ones I talk to here, have setup this way so that they can work with all of the other radio operators no matter what service they are using).

As far as distance on SSB CB, IF you have the right antenna, and conditions are right (propagation is good), then THOUSANDS of miles is possible with SSB CB. The 10 meter ham band is about 1MHz above the 11 meter CB band. AM CBs have a limit of 4 watts of transmit power, while SSB CBs have a limit of 12 watts when using SSB mode. I have used one of my 5 watt, portable FT-817s on 10 meters to contact many other Amateur operators all over the world, as well as all over the US. While legally there is a 125 mile FCC rule limit to CB communications, technically there is nothing preventing MUCH further communications. A good mix of SSB CB, and GMRS would be a good thing to have in anyone's communications mix.

No matter what route you go for comms, do three things:
Make sure that all of your friends, family, or other contacts, KNOW what channels (of frequencies for Amateur radio) you plan to use, as well as monitor.
Make sure that they all know what times of the day you plan to be at least listening to those channels (or frequencies).
Make sure that ALL of the members of your group PRACTICE using the radios you have. Without practice, you won't know if your network has problems, and your efficiency on the air will be FAR less than what you want.

Right now, with the sun in more upheaval, is the BEST time to be out there on the air (using ANY of the services) and honing your skills. Use this time wisely to do so, and you will be a lot more ready for whatever comes your way when TSHTF. You may not have too much longer to practice, and get everybody in your group "network ready".

Loup

 

[William]

Well, we go over this every time, and I always ask the same question, so I will ask again, hoping to finally get an answer: "How, exaclty, is a fringe activity like hobby radio going to enable the OP to check in on elderly friends and relatives?"

Well Captain D, when it comes to the elderly/family/friends that can operate a radio then they should as well get there a Ham Lic to complete your net, if they can't operate a radio, then you have to do what is called a welfare checks, that means that you go over and check on them, there will never be a perfect answer to all communications issue, it is best in case of an emergency or disaster to have a plan of action in place who will check on who first, this is disaster 101.

Ham Radio is not a fringe activity, Ham is the back bone of emergency communications for City, County, State and National, during our resent disaster here in Utah, Ham was the main mean of communication, there was no land lines or cell service it was all down, but I was in direct contact with the all area City, and County, EOC from my home, I could and did direct emergency services from my home, I walked my neighbor returned to my home and called in down trees that were in the power lines, checked on my neighbor as well, how is that for a fringe/hobby/activity, before the day was over I was called down to the County EOC at the Sheriff Office as they were in need of a relief Ham Radio Operator.

Yes you can use CB (HF 11m), GMRS, FRS, they have there place but they are "Very Limited" in there capabilities especially in a wide area emergency or disaster but if your in close proximity to your elderly/family/friends then these other forms of communication may work well for you.

As for me back when Y2K was an issue, I went out and got my Ham Radio Lic and Ham Radio equipment, with my Ham Radio and a little tinkering I can do all the bands, GMRS/FRS/on my 2m/70cm radios, with a little more tinkering my 10m also covers 11m (CB), but I not limited to 5 watts under my, Ham Lic I can run up to 1500 watts on any Ham band, and in an emergency I can broadcast on any band whatever it takes to get help. A Ham Radio Lic is the gold stander for communication.

Hope this helps.........

 

[Captain D]

As per usual, Loup, you have laid it out beautifully.

However, I'm doubtful that the average person is going to go to that trouble to obtain an alternate means of checking in on a few people in the neighborhood, since both parties have to make a substantial commitment to a system that would rarely be used.

If the elderly friends and relatives would like to have an alternate way to contact the OP, I think the only thing that is practical is to try the bubble-pack radios. Those things are so inexpensive and easy to use. If a set of GMRS/FRS radios is not sufficient, then a fairly basic CB net would surely work, provided the users are not dispersed beyond five or ten miles.

Apparently GMRS gets much heavier use in your area than out here in the West. I monitor those freqs all the time, and I have only ever heard one licensed user, who happened to be passing through. I also know of one net of licensed operators in the Payson area, 60 or 70 miles from here. Otherwise the GMRS/FRS freqs are the domain of kids who just got a set of talkies for Christmas/birthday or convoys of travelers passing through town looking for the McDonald's. There's plenty of room for everybody on those channels out here, and the risk of getting into trouble for being unlicensed would be nil.

Thanks for that detailed explanation of GMRS licensing and operation.

 

[LoupGarou]

A few things I would suggest that anybody that wants to use any of the radio services should grab and memorize:

Phonetic Alphabet

    A 	Alpha		N 	November
    B 	Bravo		O 	Oscar
    C 	Charlie		P 	Papa
    D 	Delta		Q 	Quebec
    E 	Echo		R 	Romeo
    F 	Foxtrot		S 	Sierra
    G 	Golf		T 	Tango
    H 	Hotel		U 	Uniform
    I 	India		V 	Victor
    J 	Juliet		W 	Whiskey
    K 	Kilo		X 	X-ray
    L 	Lima		Y 	Yankee
    M 	Mike		Z 	Zulu

And everybody that wants to use ANY of the comms services to transfer messages (especially to other services or people outside of your network), might want to grab the attached files and printing up a bunch of them for future use. The log can be used to keep a record of who you talked to, and when, as well as a brief synopsis of the conversation. After TSHTF, keeping a record of what happened, and when, lets you see a lot of the "big picture" later on. The "form" is a good way to pass the information on to other people that are not in your network in a standardized form, or for delivery to the end recipient.

Loup

 

[LoupGarou]

...
However, I'm doubtful that the average person is going to go to that trouble to obtain an alternate means of checking in on a few people in the neighborhood, since both parties have to make a substantial commitment to a system that would rarely be used.

If the elderly friends and relatives would like to have an alternate way to contact the OP, I think the only thing that is practical is to try the bubble-pack radios. Those things are so inexpensive and easy to use. If a set of GMRS/FRS radios is not sufficient, then a fairly basic CB net would surely work, provided the users are not dispersed beyond five or ten miles.
...

As you said, the bubble pack FRS/GMRS radios for those groups would be the best approach. A set of those radios can be found online for next to nothing (I picked up dozens of them for about $6 a radio when RadioShack discontinued a few different types a few years back). At that price, you can give out each "group" (family or household), two radios, and a few NiMH batteries with a cheap solar charger to charge them back up. If you shop around, $20-$25 a family is definitely in the "donate-able" price range for family or friends. Give them at least a few minutes of "how to use the radio" training, and then let them at it. If in the neighborhood, you should be able to hear them on any of the bubble pack radios you have. And if you need to go more than "the neighborhood", you can use your licensed GMRS radio with an external antenna up 30-40 feet, and talk to them miles away on their bubble pack radios.

The same can be done with CBs. Grab CBs off the net, or from yard sales, even if they are AM only radios, and this will allow them to talk to you and others in a 10-30 miles area, but since you have SSB capable units, you can talk to others even farther away. One person can pass messages, info, or intel to the next, no matter what the comms means, as long as both people in the link have the same capabilities in their radios. The more radios, and the more capabilities you have, the more people you can talk to.

Granny and Grandpa can check in with their bubble pack radios. You can pass info from and to them from your sources. Your sources can gather and disperse even more info with other radio operators even further away. It all works together.

Everybody needs to get the radios (and any needed licenses) now, and start practicing. Practice does not make perfect, but it gets you a lot closer to it, a lot more proficient, and a lot better at handling "less than ideal conditions".

Loup