EBOLA CANADIAN PARAMEDICS AND HCWs WON'T GO TO WORK - - "MAD AS HELL!"

[R.Tist]

I don't have a link for this, as it comes from the personal experiences I had yesterday.

I had to go to the doctor's in a little DGI town about an hour's drive north of North Vancouver. Not wanting to be in a doctor's office anyway, I thought I'd conduct a behavioral experiment. As I smiled at the ten or so people sitting in the waiting room, I said, "Anyone traveled to or from West Africa in the past 42 days?"

This town is usually so 'out of it' with regard to current affairs that I expected puzzled expressions and many questions - y'know - and the looks one usually gets when one mentions prepping. Well, this time they weren't puzzled, and there weren't any questions.

What I did get was an outburst of "Are you kidding?" and "You must be joking!" - type comments. THEN we all started talking.

Turns out that no one's willing to shake hands with anyone anymore; no hugs or close contact, no unnecessary shopping trips, and pretty much what you would expect a TB'er to say. A month ago, this was a DGI town! I know; I've been trying to 'teach' these people to prep for years!

THEN one woman, whose husband is a paramedic, told us that her husband and all his HCW friends are "As mad as hell" because they all know what they need in the way of PPE and information, but not a word - NOT A WORD - has been said to them from any authority - no CDC, no WHO, no Canadian Ministry of Health - nothing! And they have all asked for information, but none was given - let alone any practical help.

I asked her what they planned to do, and she shrugged and said: "They won't go to work. Would you?"

I asked her if she meant just locally, and she shook her head and said that as far as she knew, no one was willing to risk working through flu season and so were quitting.

The can all sit at home and receive unemployment benefits (55% of their gross paychecks) for close to a year, and that's what they're planning to do.

Many of my doctor friends are either quitting or taking an extended leave of absence too. Early retirement seems to be the flavor of choice here, but I had no idea that the trend was as widespread as it appears to be.

I'm not sure what the younger doctors are doing (all I've heard is hearsay), the ones who can't afford to quit, but it's going to be hard to get prescriptions if there are no doctors to write them, and hospitals can't operate without HCWs and drugs. (I'll get to the drugs in a moment.)

So, I took my own scripts to the pharmacy and had a chat with the (Wal-Mart) pharmacist, who is also a friend. (Wal-Mart was almost empty.) She told me that two of my scripts were "unavailable" and that she expected supply shortages of "quite a few drugs."

I asked her if she knew why, since trucks are still running on the highways here, gas is still available, and Wal-Mart's shelves were reasonably well stocked. She said that the raw materials weren't available to the pharmaceutical companies, and she supposed that there were either manufacturing or transportation problems in the several countries that export the raw ingredients needed to manufacture the drugs.

We're talking about major meds - heart meds, Xanax, BP meds, PAIN PILLS, and antidepressants.

I'm hoping this is a temporary situation, as I myself need meds to live, but at this writing, I'm not sure what to think about anything.

Will the HCWs return to work after flu season, and if they do, will we have the meds we need to treat patients?

If this is happening in Canada where we haven't had even one confirmed case of Ebola yet, what is going on in the rest of the world? I find the present situation perturbing.

What's going on in the States with HCWs?


Artie.

 

[ainitfunny]

HCW everywhere are NOT HAPPY

They need PPE, Team nursing rather than one nurse caring for an Ebola patient, High Life insurance policies on their life, "hazard pay", compensation for loss of any "contaminated" personal property furniture, free medical care and life insurance on any family members infected from their work, reimbursement of personal property or vehicles confiscated and destroyed. They need a new law passed so HCW are exempted from being sued civilly should they become infected and accidentally infect anyone else.

I am urging my ER ROOM Triage nurse daughter to quit unless the hospital administrators get their act together.
They still don't have PPE and rumors of suspected Ebola cases in Washington state are flying through the grapevine.
The authorities CANNOT IMAGINE what bad decisions and government mis-handling of this Ebola threat might create in the way of CONSEQUENCES!!

In my opinion, it could might the "first world" medical system that they so arrogantly presume will "save us".

 

[frazbo]

Wow...everybody's got the heebie jeebies in Canada too. Thanks for the personal up close and in your face post.

 

[winodog]

Great post.

Lord help us. I am at a loss for words as to how horrible life may become soon.

 

[Melodi]

Thank you R.Tist, my husband is thinking of applying to practice medicine near your area in a few years and this is very important and helpful information; it is also a huge window into what is likely to happen all over the Western world if this isn't sorted. Yes many medical staff will be heroes under many circumstances and even "go down with the ship" in disaster situations; but a disaster you know is likely, that the authorities refuse to plan for, talk about with staff or refuse to provide proper staff protections for in advance is another story. This is very different from being stuck in a flooded hospital after a hurricane or doing surgery in a parking lot after an earthquake while the aftershocks threaten to bring down more buildings; this is intentional, blind assumptions that staff will put up with anything to the point of their own self-destruction.

Finally, Ebola is not the only threat out there that can require serious bio-hazard protections; frankly my husband had always thought that MERS was a greater threat until recently; and a virus like that (or a killer flu) could also mandate at least bio level II to bio level four protections (especially to safe guard breathing).

It takes a high intelligence to get through nursing school these days much less become a doctor, physicians assistant or even EMT; while not everyone has time to read up on everything; these are bright people who usually know how to use the internet and a library. Much of the time, they rely on what they are told by people who are supposed to be in the know because they are too busy working to do otherwise, but they will take the time to study when they need to and it appears that they are.

 

[Martinhouse]

My nephew's wife is an RN, now taking accelerated courses to become a PA. She says Ebola is about the only topic of conversation at school and it is a pretty hot topic.

Her biggest worry is being conscripted into a health care job that puts herself and family at high risk. Her baby just turned one year old this month and it would devastate her if quarantining were to separate her from her family.

Carol

 

[Vtshooter]

Something you wrote (not ebola related) caught my attention. Can you quit your job there and still draw unemployment? Here you can not become "voluntarily unemployed" and draw benefits. There are some things you can be fired for, and not be eligible for benefits. Just wondering, because if their plan is to walk off and get unemployment, they may be in for a rude awakening.

 

[nomadcrna]

So you hear this from ONE person who is talking about ONE OTHER person and you post that ALL canadian paramedics and HCW won't go to work. You should work for MSNBC.

I don't have a link for this, as it comes from the personal experiences I had yesterday.

I had to go to the doctor's in a little DGI town about an hour's drive north of North Vancouver. Not wanting to be in a doctor's office anyway, I thought I'd conduct a behavioral experiment. As I smiled at the ten or so people sitting in the waiting room, I said, "Anyone traveled to or from West Africa in the past 42 days?"

This town is usually so 'out of it' with regard to current affairs that I expected puzzled expressions and many questions - y'know - and the looks one usually gets when one mentions prepping. Well, this time they weren't puzzled, and there weren't any questions.

What I did get was an outburst of "Are you kidding?" and "You must be joking!" - type comments. THEN we all started talking.

Turns out that no one's willing to shake hands with anyone anymore; no hugs or close contact, no unnecessary shopping trips, and pretty much what you would expect a TB'er to say. A month ago, this was a DGI town! I know; I've been trying to 'teach' these people to prep for years!

THEN one woman, whose husband is a paramedic, told us that her husband and all his HCW friends are "As mad as hell" because they all know what they need in the way of PPE and information, but not a word - NOT A WORD - has been said to them from any authority - no CDC, no WHO, no Canadian Ministry of Health - nothing! And they have all asked for information, but none was given - let alone any practical help.

I asked her what they planned to do, and she shrugged and said: "They won't go to work. Would you?"

I asked her if she meant just locally, and she shook her head and said that as far as she knew, no one was willing to risk working through flu season and so were quitting.

The can all sit at home and receive unemployment benefits (55% of their gross paychecks) for close to a year, and that's what they're planning to do.

Many of my doctor friends are either quitting or taking an extended leave of absence too. Early retirement seems to be the flavor of choice here, but I had no idea that the trend was as widespread as it appears to be.

I'm not sure what the younger doctors are doing (all I've heard is hearsay), the ones who can't afford to quit, but it's going to be hard to get prescriptions if there are no doctors to write them, and hospitals can't operate without HCWs and drugs. (I'll get to the drugs in a moment.)

So, I took my own scripts to the pharmacy and had a chat with the (Wal-Mart) pharmacist, who is also a friend. (Wal-Mart was almost empty.) She told me that two of my scripts were "unavailable" and that she expected supply shortages of "quite a few drugs."

I asked her if she knew why, since trucks are still running on the highways here, gas is still available, and Wal-Mart's shelves were reasonably well stocked. She said that the raw materials weren't available to the pharmaceutical companies, and she supposed that there were either manufacturing or transportation problems in the several countries that export the raw ingredients needed to manufacture the drugs.

We're talking about major meds - heart meds, Xanax, BP meds, PAIN PILLS, and antidepressants.

I'm hoping this is a temporary situation, as I myself need meds to live, but at this writing, I'm not sure what to think about anything.

Will the HCWs return to work after flu season, and if they do, will we have the meds we need to treat patients?

If this is happening in Canada where we haven't had even one confirmed case of Ebola yet, what is going on in the rest of the world? I find the present situation perturbing.

What's going on in the States with HCWs?


Artie.

 

[Hfcomms]

So you hear this from ONE person who is talking about ONE OTHER person and you post that ALL canadian paramedics and HCW won't go to work. You should work for MSNBC.

So as a medical professional what do you think about the Ebola mess? Your hospital ready with a Level IV pathogen? How are you stocked for PPE? What kind of protocols are in place where you work? You willing to lay your life on the line with no training, no PPE and your hospital administrators burying their heads in the sand?

 

[Amazed]

THEN one woman, whose husband is a paramedic, told us that her husband and all his HCW friends are "As mad as hell" because they all know what they need in the way of PPE and information, but not a word - NOT A WORD - has been said to them from any authority - no CDC, no WHO, no Canadian Ministry of Health - nothing! And they have all asked for information, but none was given - let alone any practical help.

So you hear this from ONE person who is talking about ONE OTHER person and you post that ALL canadian paramedics and HCW won't go to work.

They said all of his HCW friends, not all paramedics.

 

[Creedmoor]

...and rumors of suspected Ebola cases in Washington state are flying through the grapevine.
".

Ummmm.... I live in WA and I HAVE been keeping my ears open, but haven't heard any. Are these just your usual rumors or is there any substance to 'em?

 

[R.Tist]

Something you wrote (not ebola related) caught my attention. Can you quit your job there and still draw unemployment? Here you can not become "voluntarily unemployed" and draw benefits. There are some things you can be fired for, and not be eligible for benefits. Just wondering, because if their plan is to walk off and get unemployment, they may be in for a rude awakening.

No, but you can say that you have intolerable back pain, and since pain can't be seen (well, we can measure it with sophisticated technology), most docs just write you pain prescriptions, send you to a physiotherapist (it usually takes months to get an appointment with one) and E.I. (as we call it in Canada) will pay you while all this is going on. First responders do heavy lifting all the time, as do nurses and other HCWs, so it won't take much to qualify for benefits. My husband has a bad back - authentically - and over the years he's had to take three extended leaves to get himself healed well enough to work again, and qualifying for E.I. was never a problem.


Artie.

 

[R.Tist]

So as a medical professional what do you think about the Ebola mess? Your hospital ready with a Level IV pathogen? How are you stocked for PPE? What kind of protocols are in place where you work? You willing to lay your life on the line with no training, no PPE and your hospital administrators burying their heads in the sand?

What do I think? I know that we're being lied to, I just don't know precisely why. I know that symptomatic patients are 'disappearing' from hospitals all over N. America - not patients who walked out AMA, but patients who are/were too sick to voluntarily go anywhere - and we don't know where they went. I know that HCWs and first responders of all types are not permitted to use the word 'Ebola,' ostensibly so as not to panic the nation. However, that begs the question: If we are now Ebola free, why the need for secrecy and 'code words' when talking about possible or actual Ebola infections?

What's going on in N. America is terrifying to me, because even if the info blackouts, relocated patients, and mandated HCW silences are to prevent panic in the general public, we're left with too many unanswered questions about PPE and training and the fact that very few hospitals are even equipped to deal with more than a very few cases of any Level IV pathogen.

HFC: I'm disabled and so don't work in a hospital setting nowadays, but many of my friends do. No hospital anywhere near me is equipped to deal with a Level IV pathogen, and the PPE they do have is a joke. Training is non-existent in most places (not all). I can't speak for hospital admins, but I've yet to talk to a doc here who isn't terrified. I'm not a virologist, but as for putting my life on the line, I find that question insulting, as doctors and other HCWs put their lives on the line routinely. I test positive for TB (as do almost all docs and nurses), and for forty years have dealt with the sick and dying. That is why doctors become doctors in the first place - to save lives.

The conversation among HCWs is pretty much what we're hearing everywhere.

"Why is there a media blackout if there's nothing to conceal?"

"Why are many hospitals being deprived of what PPE they do have?" (The official explanation is that they're needed for the troops. )

"Why aren't we being trained and equipped to deal with Level IV pathogens?"

"Why are the borders still open?") That's the biggest concern, as it simply doesn't make sense on any level.

Most of us believe that we have many diagnosed Ebola cases already here, and many more that are not yet confirmed, and it is the latter that's causing the most trepidation among HCWs - what we don't know, and the harm that can do to ourselves, our families, and the public in general.

So, other than having access to 'insider' information, I don't know a whole lot more than anyone else here does. I posted what I did because if a town of the size my own doctor practices in is suddenly awake, aware, and taking proactive measures, what's going on in the rest of N. America?

If I hear of anything else of consequence, I'll post it.


Artie.

 

[SAPPHIRE]

R.Tist....thanks so much for "feet on the ground" info.........I do believe all countries are going to "splat" if these pestilences are spread purposefully/naturally/combination.........the viruses don't care how they spread....it's their job...

 

[ainitfunny]

Something you wrote (not ebola related) caught my attention. Can you quit your job there and still draw unemployment? Here you can not become "voluntarily unemployed" and draw benefits. There are some things you can be fired for, and not be eligible for benefits. Just wondering, because if their plan is to walk off and get unemployment, they may be in for a rude awakening.

In most states, if you quit, you get No unemployment UNLESS YOU PROVE (later before an administrative judge hearing) that YOU HAD A GOOD REASON TO QUIT, ie. "employer asked you to do something illegal", you were "required to do something dangerous without adequate safety equipment" or if it was demanded that you submit to nonconsensual sex to keep your job, or other reasons that a "reasonable person" would deem justifiable reason to quit.

 

[R.Tist]

In most states, if you quit, you get No unemployment UNLESS YOU PROVE (later before an administrative judge hearing) that YOU HAD A GOOD REASON TO QUIT, ie. "employer asked you to do something illegal", you were "required to do something dangerous without adequate safety equipment" or if it was demanded that you submit to nonconsensual sex to keep your job, or other reasons that a "reasonable person" would deem justifiable reason to quit.

Ain't: It's pretty much the same here, except that if one successfully applies for medical benefits under E.I., one is automatically switched to regular benefits after (I think) 16 weeks, and then that runs for circa a year, or until the recipient finds a job.

Edited to add: Regardless of E.I., the fact that so many HCWs are threatening to quit is what troubles me, and is the reason why I posted this info in the first place - that and the current shortage (soon to worsen) of lifesaving drugs. Panic in the populace is one thing, but panic within the medical community will panic the general populace anyway, just as soon as the shortage of medical aid hits them.

Artie.

 

[Vtshooter]

In most states, if you quit, you get No unemployment UNLESS YOU PROVE (later before an administrative judge hearing) that YOU HAD A GOOD REASON TO QUIT, ie. "employer asked you to do something illegal", you were "required to do something dangerous without adequate safety equipment" or if it was demanded that you submit to nonconsensual sex to keep your job, or other reasons that a "reasonable person" would deem justifiable reason to quit.

Aintit, those all sound like good reasons to follow up with a lawsuit, in addition to the unemployment.

Artie, thanks for posting the info. I think every bit we can get is good for forming the overall picture of what is going on.

 

[Emily]

Something you wrote (not ebola related) caught my attention. Can you quit your job there and still draw unemployment? Here you can not become "voluntarily unemployed" and draw benefits. There are some things you can be fired for, and not be eligible for benefits. Just wondering, because if their plan is to walk off and get unemployment, they may be in for a rude awakening.

Each state laws are different. In most states, if a person feels unsafe or suffers emotional persecution they can quit their jobs and file a claim under "constructive termination."
It was designed to help folks where managers/owners make their life so miserable that they can't continue working under those conditions. I would think making the environment unsafe through lack of necessary equipment may qualify under the term "constructive termination."

Before anyone quits their job to use that reason and file for claims, do the research for your state, review case files of folks who have filed and see what way the system in your area handles it.