GUNS/RLTD Can a lock on a gun safe be picked by someone who picks locks?

Hometown

No place like home
This makes me sick to think and feel this way about someone before something even happens (maybe). I love my niece and brother we are a close family. She was pregnant and has had the baby and working. He also works so far.
This was my deceased sons safe. A Winchester. He was a reloader. I removed all weapons. All the good things in there, make them go boom.
I'm a real private person. I give people a lot of space and I haven't even been in there since they moved in. But it hit me when I heard he can pick locks, he did drive a wrecker, I don't know now what he does
. Not crazy about him but you get in a position where you don't want to piss him off or damage might be done.
 

Hometown

No place like home
I have a Cannon floor safe, its bigger than this other one but I'm mostly home with it. If so easy to get into why do we bother locking them?
 

Faroe

Un-spun
Your problem is not the safe.
Her pregnancy and BF are NOT your problem.
Tell them to leave, ASAP. I'd even spring for a motel for a few nights, just to get them out the door!
 

Faroe

Un-spun
Bad news and bad juju written all over it.
Why have neither of them offered to pay rent?
If you don't trust him, there is a reason.
Trust your gut.
So, why aren't these two freeloaders at your brother's place. What's HIS excuse?

Just say NO! This doesn't have to be your problem. Despite the claim of "close family," you are really not projecting that with any evidence. Toss 'em, and don't worry about it.
 

NoDandy

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I have a Cannon floor safe, its bigger than this other one but I'm mostly home with it. If so easy to get into why do we bother locking them?
Most "gun safes" are considered as home security cabinets by insurance companies. There are " home security cabinets " and there are safes. Big difference. A home security cabinet will keep kids out and if you get one fire rated, you will have some fire protection. That is it. If thieves break in, they can get in. I knew of a guy that bought the biggest, best Liberty safe made. When he and his family were gone, somebody(s) kicked in his front door, put a chain around his safe, and fed it ouit the door to a big truck of some sort, pulled it out into the front yard, and when the guy got home, the safe was laying there, door had been pryed open, and all the contents gone.

When we had a pawn shop / gun store, I needed safes. Talked to my insurance company, they explained it all. I had already talked to a friend that had a similar shop the next county over. He had told me the same. Sent me to a pro safe dealer in Columbus Ohio. I ended up getting three. Each weighed about 5,000 lb. Had a number of anti theft features, fire rated, etc. I swear, the door on each one was heavier than a Cannon, or a Liberty. Two were ISM, and the third was a Fischet Bausch ( sp ? ) sorry about the spelling. These were rated as bank quality. My insurance company was happy, and gave me a lower rate.
I slept better at night.

They were expensive, but as I said, I slept better at night, since they were full of cash, guns, jewelry, coins, etc.

I don't mean to be a downer, but those are the facts. Don't take my word for it. Talk to your insurance company, and talk to a professional locksmith that works on bank safes.

If it were me, I would either get that safe and the contents out of that house, or the perp that is there. Besides, even if you get him out of there, he now knows there is a safe there, and no one has a big safe just for decoration .

Good luck !!!!

:ld:
 

Hometown

No place like home
Bad news and bad juju written all over it.
Why have neither of them offered to pay rent?
If you don't trust him, there is a reason.
Trust your gut.
So, why aren't these two freeloaders at your brother's place. What's HIS excuse?

Just say NO! This doesn't have to be your problem. Despite the claim of "close family," you are really not projecting that with any evidence. Toss 'em, and don't worry about it.
Thank you, you are right.
 

thompson

Certa Bonum Certamen
This makes me sick to think and feel this way about someone before something even happens (maybe). I love my niece and brother we are a close family. She was pregnant and has had the baby and working. He also works so far.
This was my deceased sons safe. A Winchester. He was a reloader. I removed all weapons. All the good things in there, make them go boom.
I'm a real private person. I give people a lot of space and I haven't even been in there since they moved in. But it hit me when I heard he can pick locks, he did drive a wrecker, I don't know now what he does. Not crazy about him but you get in a position where you don't want to piss him off or damage might be done.
I'm seriously trying not to be an ass about this, but why in the heck don't you know where he works or what he does?! You have an absolute right to know this if they are living under your roof. For all you know, he may be involved with something very sketchy that could put you in danger.
 

Jez

Veteran Member
Look up the Lock Picking Lawyer on Youtube for some really scary videos on how easy some locks and safes are to get into (in seconds, not minutes).
I love his videos. I bought my first set of lock picks because of him. Some locks are easier than others. If someone is a skilled lock picker there is little that can stop them from gaining access.
 

Milkweed Host

Veteran Member
Are you referring to the ACE circular locks? Have you ever seen the pick tool for circular locks on Vending Machines?
Yes, although I never had a need to invest in the circular unlocking tool.

I went through the Locksmithing course in the early 1980's, so I have no knowledge of electronic locks.

Also, in the early 1980's, one of my night lieutenants radioed me for a meet. He locked his office keys in the
captain's office and asked me to retrieve the keys that he left on a filing cabinet. Sure..

It took me ten minutes to go through a heavy steel door with an electric lock and then through six pin tumbler
at the captain's office. Got to keep the lie u ten ants happy.

When I moved to Minnesota I continued to provide that service for people.

People in the rural areas anyway, expect a lot of their local LE and many don't even say thank you.

I tried bumping, but had better luck raking or feeling.
 

day late

money? whats that?
In MOST cases, if the lock cylinder has a pin-tumbler design a practiced individual can LIKELY rake that cylinder and open the safe in under 15 secs to 3 minutes.

There ARE several caveats to this. I can think of 3 companies who make keyed locks that look like "normal" keyed locks but they are NOT. There are some where the angles ground into the key must match angles ground into the pins.

There are 3D keys using geometric shapes that are required to mate to open the lock.

There are several open for sale locks that are VERY difficult to either pick, bump. or jiggle/wiggle open but the average safe key lock is still in th 15 seconds to 3 minutes range.
First of all, thanks to ND for bringing this to my attention. Not having seen the gun safe I can only go by things I have seen. Chuck is correct that if it has a key it is most likely a pin and tumbler lock. If were a dead bolt or door knob type lock, then yes most of them can be easily picked. With something like this maybe not so much. Again I haven't seen it, but the safe probably has a lock similar to what you would see on a coke machine or some bicycle locks. They use the cylindrical type keys. They can also be picked, but it is much more difficult and time consuming to do because of the way the lock is made. Drilling them is faster but also noisier. And noise attracts attention.

Anything stored in a safe with the cylindrical locks should be safe enough with most people who can pick locks. However, relocating items of interest to an undisclosed location for a while might not be a bad idea. But rigging something to let you know if the safe has ben opened while you weren't looking wouldn't be a bad idea either. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. I heard of a guy who would break off a tooth pick in the door to his place when he left. When he returned if the piece of broken pick was on the ground he knew someone was either there or somebody had been.
 

Double_A

TB Fanatic
Yes, although I never had a need to invest in the circular unlocking tool.

I went through the Locksmithing course in the early 1980's, so I have no knowledge of electronic locks.

Also, in the early 1980's, one of my night lieutenants radioed me for a meet. He locked his office keys in the
captain's office and asked me to retrieve the keys that he left on a filing cabinet. Sure..

It took me ten minutes to go through a heavy steel door with an electric lock and then through six pin tumbler
at the captain's office. Got to keep the lie u ten ants happy.

When I moved to Minnesota I continued to provide that service for people.

People in the rural areas anyway, expect a lot of their local LE and many don't even say thank you.

I tried bumping, but had better luck raking or feeling.
Yea I never tried bumping but when I heard it described I immediately said "oh yea I can mentally see it"

Raking or feeling them. Gotta get experience with them pins, drivers and springs. For extra credit, have everything "go flying" then have to find everything, sort it out and put it back together. You know what I mean.
 

Milkweed Host

Veteran Member
have everything "go flying" then have to find everything, sort it out and put it back together. You know what I mean.

That only happened once, then I slowed down and focused.
Here is my pinning kit. I also have lots of the really thin picks, but haven't done anything
for a few years now. DSC00012.JPG
 

Double_A

TB Fanatic
Whoa that will keep you going

You can't get those hardware store re-key yourself kits anymore where I live. Bought quite a few of them over the years and some pins are duplicates so depending on wear you might have a spare. Those spare pins have built up over the years but now I've run dry. Told my mom I couldn't rekey that last lock in her house to the rest of the doors so she would have to carry two keys.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
For extra credit, have everything "go flying" then have to find everything, sort it out and put it back together. You know what I mean.
Standard hazzard for college kids making master keys from room keys, is not remembering the springs when you open the top of the lock and don't get yer finger tight enough on the spring retaining copper strip. Re-assembly, when you don't have the "right" tools was always a kick.

Had chainsaw sharpening files for YEARS before I got my first saw. Bride kept asking what these were for...

Pin diameter for the key.
 

day late

money? whats that?
That pin set looks very much like mine, but carrying that thing around got to be a problem. AND LORD HELP YOU if you drop it. You'll never get all those pins sorted out. I got a smaller version from Amazon that is only about 1/5 the size and has all of the pins I most commonly use. If I'm short one pin I pick the next one longer and get in some time with a file making it the right height.

A mention was made about making master keys. That only works if the lock has wafers on top of some of the pins to vary the height, thus allowing two different keys to work on the same lock. I've actually been to new homes to get people in and they ask if I can re-key the lock while I'm there. So I take the lock apart and low and behold, there are wafers. I now have to tell these proud new home owners that someone else has a key for their front door. Most often this results in an appointment to come back and change all the remaining locks.
 

day late

money? whats that?
It must have an emergency key opener too doesn't it?
NOT required. I've drilled many electronic keypad deadbolts, just because someone forgot to change the batteries. They had become dependent on the keypad and left the keys inside the house. Others are keypad only, no key at all. If things are this loose and easy on your front door, why would anyone expect security to be better on something you can't lock yourself inside of.
 

Seeker22

Veteran Member
Get that safe and its contents out of there.
If you chase shack off or make her do it, he may sneak back to see her anyway. He may tell friends there is a rich score in that safe and hit you for spite. Or let his friends do it.

Remove all temptation.
 

Kennori

Contributing Member
I worked for a locksmith in the early seventies, there were only a few types of cars he could not get into, all foreign, and not a single door, cabinet, or padlock was difficult for him. He even opened safes by drilling holes in the doors, bypassing teargas bottles and explosives built into the mechanism. If certified you can get pick sets, all of the model year car keys, all the common blanks, and if you know the tricks, there are ways to bump locks and force combinations on dials. He retired to Maui a few years ago.
 

Hometown

No place like home
I'm seriously trying not to be an ass about this, but why in the heck don't you know where he works or what he does?! You have an absolute right to know this if they are living under your roof. For all you know, he may be involved with something very sketchy that could put you in danger.
No you are fine and right. I know where he works, I don't know if he drives a wrecker at this new place or is a mechanic. Hopefully this is going to be resolved shortly.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
DL, the situation at College was that about half the dorms were Corbin lock sets and one key handled all of those locks, and they used miscellaneous pins to make up the 'normal" key coding but had one specific set to do the master key.

The other half were (I want to say Schwin, large capitol S on it but that can't be it) and they were the same way. THAT key also handled about half of the lab buildings on campus, INCLUDING the lab with the vest pocket reactor in it... We kept our distance on that one...

They didn't go to high security keys for several reasons, mostly because we would have found ways around them eventually and THAT data would be well and truly shared. technical and Engineering College, ya see....in the midst of the Blue Box craze... Captain Crunch and all...
 

Hometown

No place like home
Get that safe and its contents out of there.
If you chase shack off or make her do it, he may sneak back to see her anyway. He may tell friends there is a rich score in that safe and hit you for spite. Or let his friends do it.

Remove all temptation.
They moved here from Wyoming I don't think he has any friends here. They will both be going together, it was a temporary thing and I try to help anyone I can. Just when I heard he could pick locks I wondered if those electronic ones on gun safes could be. Not going to happen again.
 

Capt. Eddie

Veteran Member
They moved here from Wyoming I don't think he has any friends here. They will both be going together, it was a temporary thing and I try to help anyone I can. Just when I heard he could pick locks I wondered if those electronic ones on gun safes could be. Not going to happen again.
Just a thought Hometown, is it possible the the "picking locks" is actually getting keys out of locked cars and it just got messed up in the retelling? Helping people who locked their keys in their cars would seem to be a normal part of wrecker driver's job.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
Just a thought Hometown, is it possible the the "picking locks" is actually getting keys out of locked cars and it just got messed up in the retelling? Helping people who locked their keys in their cars would seem to be a normal part of wrecker driver's job.
Hey

That's what I said.

:D
 

Hometown

No place like home
Just a thought Hometown, is it possible the the "picking locks" is actually getting keys out of locked cars and it just got messed up in the retelling? Helping people who locked their keys in their cars would seem to be a normal part of wrecker driver's job.
You know that could be or car repos. I thought of. I just don't know where or why he gained that knowledge. Maybe I'll find out.
 
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