[Brkg] Andrea Yates-LIFE!
- Thread starter Satanta
- Start date
I just read the interesting suggestion in Newsweek that she did it so the kids would die before they reached their "age of accountability" so they would go to heaven. No matter how well intended, that's a control freak. (I deleted everything I wrote after this, after all, what Newsweek said probably isn't true anyway.)
This is not Justice.
Since when does "not being a continueing threat to society" mean someone who murders or slaughters or snuffs out the life of 5 people, willfully, not get snuffed out themselves?
I'm unhappy about this. Yes, she should get death by drowning. I will not be moved from this conviction.
Since when does "not being a continueing threat to society" mean someone who murders or slaughters or snuffs out the life of 5 people, willfully, not get snuffed out themselves?
I'm unhappy about this. Yes, she should get death by drowning. I will not be moved from this conviction.
I know ten of the jury felt she wasn't a continuing danger to society.
She can still be charged with capital murder for the other children she's been indicted for but not been to trial for.
Also I'm hearing the husband might be charged as well as the doctor but for lesser charges.
She can still be charged with capital murder for the other children she's been indicted for but not been to trial for.
Also I'm hearing the husband might be charged as well as the doctor but for lesser charges.
Donald Shimoda
In Absentia
Here's a link:
Fair use for educational purposes, blah, blah, blah...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020315/ts_nm/crime_mother_dc_50&cid=578
Texas Mother Given Life Sentence in Drownings
Fri Mar 15, 2:46 PM ET
HOUSTON (Reuters) - A Texas jury on Friday spared Andrea Yates from execution by lethal injection, sentencing her to
life in prison for drowning her five young children in the family bathtub last summer.
In the 35 minutes it took to determine her sentence, the eight women and four men of the jury
decided Yates was not a future danger to society, which means an automatic life sentence. Under
Texas law, that is at least 40 years without a chance of parole.
The 37-year-old former nurse confessed to drowning her children, aged 6 months to 7 years, in
the bathtub of their Houston home on June 20, 2001, but she said she did it to protect them from
Satan. She had been mentally ill for at least two years, twice attempting suicide and four times
being treated at a mental hospital, testimony showed.
The same jury took less than four hours on Tuesday to convict her of capital murder, rejecting the
insanity defense her lawyers mounted. Prosecutors acknowledged Yates was sick but successfully
persuaded the panel she knew the crime was wrong, the only standard for sanity in Texas.
Prosecutors asked and received the court's permission to pursue the death penalty, but suggested
in closing arguments that jurors hand down a life sentence.
Fair use for educational purposes, blah, blah, blah...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020315/ts_nm/crime_mother_dc_50&cid=578
Texas Mother Given Life Sentence in Drownings
Fri Mar 15, 2:46 PM ET
HOUSTON (Reuters) - A Texas jury on Friday spared Andrea Yates from execution by lethal injection, sentencing her to
life in prison for drowning her five young children in the family bathtub last summer.
In the 35 minutes it took to determine her sentence, the eight women and four men of the jury
decided Yates was not a future danger to society, which means an automatic life sentence. Under
Texas law, that is at least 40 years without a chance of parole.
The 37-year-old former nurse confessed to drowning her children, aged 6 months to 7 years, in
the bathtub of their Houston home on June 20, 2001, but she said she did it to protect them from
Satan. She had been mentally ill for at least two years, twice attempting suicide and four times
being treated at a mental hospital, testimony showed.
The same jury took less than four hours on Tuesday to convict her of capital murder, rejecting the
insanity defense her lawyers mounted. Prosecutors acknowledged Yates was sick but successfully
persuaded the panel she knew the crime was wrong, the only standard for sanity in Texas.
Prosecutors asked and received the court's permission to pursue the death penalty, but suggested
in closing arguments that jurors hand down a life sentence.
Swampthing
Membership Revoked
I heard on Fox it's gonna cost over 50 grand a year to keep her in prison.
Swampthing
Membership Revoked
Will Russell Yates get congecal (sexual) visits?
I wonder if they could conceive another child?
I wonder if they could conceive another child?
Sat: "Also I'm hearing the husband might be charged as well as the doctor but for lesser charges."
Well, I sure do hope so. Both were actionably negligent!
Swampthing, I read on another post that the conjugal visits would be permitted but should she become pregnant that the child would be taken away from her.
Well, I sure do hope so. Both were actionably negligent!
Swampthing, I read on another post that the conjugal visits would be permitted but should she become pregnant that the child would be taken away from her.
Swampthing
Membership Revoked
Yeah I lowballed it on purpose cuz I couldn't remember the exact amount.
Now about those congecal visits...
Now about those congecal visits...
Donald Shimoda
In Absentia
Life in prison...for a child murderer?
Howdy, Folks!
Having studied prisonstuff extensively, methinks Mrs. Yates might not live long enough in the pen to see her earliest parole date.
Men do tend to be more brutal toward each other in prison than women do, but the laydeez in The Barry Place are not shrinking violets, either. I think Mrs. Yates is gonna have a VERY challenging time ahead of her...
Those of you that think this isn't a fair sentence and think the death penalty woulda been better - I'll wager you've never seen the inside of a Texas prison before.
The death penalty woulda been far more merciful than a minimum of 40 years in one of those holes...
She's 37 - 40 years in the slam, her life's effectively over.
Oh, yeah - once she gets out, she'll STILL be a ward of the state; it's not like she'll be workin'.
There's always a pardon, though...
Howdy, Folks!
Having studied prisonstuff extensively, methinks Mrs. Yates might not live long enough in the pen to see her earliest parole date.
Men do tend to be more brutal toward each other in prison than women do, but the laydeez in The Barry Place are not shrinking violets, either. I think Mrs. Yates is gonna have a VERY challenging time ahead of her...
Those of you that think this isn't a fair sentence and think the death penalty woulda been better - I'll wager you've never seen the inside of a Texas prison before.
The death penalty woulda been far more merciful than a minimum of 40 years in one of those holes...She's 37 - 40 years in the slam, her life's effectively over.
Oh, yeah - once she gets out, she'll STILL be a ward of the state; it's not like she'll be workin'.
There's always a pardon, though...
Shock Wave Rider
Inactive
$50,000 is just to treat her 'mental illness'...that's on top of the average $30K it costs to house and feed her.
This is the real kick in the face to the American taxpayers!
Sends a nice clear message to the rest of the wacky Moms out there too... kid's better arm yourselves
What a disgrace
This is the real kick in the face to the American taxpayers!
Sends a nice clear message to the rest of the wacky Moms out there too... kid's better arm yourselves
What a disgrace
Loon
Inactive
I remember somewhere reading that Andrea had said she should have just killed Mary. If she had stopped with the baby she might be out of jail now. We had a similar case here in Michigan. A foreign woman (can't remember the nationality) who could not speak English and was away from her homeland and family, gave birth and within a month drown her baby in a pond. They referenced her story again with an update after the Yates trial. This woman did not serve time in jail and got medical attention and is now talking of having another baby. This time her family is here to support and help her though.
Would the outcome of the Yates trial have been different if she had just drown Mary and none of the other children? Was it the number of children that died that makes the case so sensational? I wonder.
I think they should as Andrea what she wants. If she chooses to die by lethal injection the state should allow it. If the state wishes to punish her, then life in prison and thinking about what she did every day for the next 40 years is truly a fit punishment. I do feel terrible about the children and what they must have suffered at the hands of the person who should have loved them the most and protected them. Mrs. Yates is a very sick person and I hope she gets help. I feel very bad for her mother who pled for her life. One can only imagine if it was their adult child who could do the unthinkable.
Would the outcome of the Yates trial have been different if she had just drown Mary and none of the other children? Was it the number of children that died that makes the case so sensational? I wonder.
I think they should as Andrea what she wants. If she chooses to die by lethal injection the state should allow it. If the state wishes to punish her, then life in prison and thinking about what she did every day for the next 40 years is truly a fit punishment. I do feel terrible about the children and what they must have suffered at the hands of the person who should have loved them the most and protected them. Mrs. Yates is a very sick person and I hope she gets help. I feel very bad for her mother who pled for her life. One can only imagine if it was their adult child who could do the unthinkable.
Donald Shimoda
In Absentia
Howdy, Folks!
Satanta wrote:
"Donald-I'm hearing life...not 40yrs. But there may be no difference."
Sorry I didn't clarify that, Whitebear. She won't be eligible for parole until she's served the minimum of 40 years of her life sentence.
This means, unless there is a pardon(or she escapes or dies in prison before the 40 years are up). there is almost no way(possible nuke attack and they simply open the doors, or sompin' like that) this woman will get out of prison before she is 77 years old.
Hence, 40 years until she's back in "free" society.
Of course, The NWO might let her out when they come to power; they'll need breeding stock for food, and she's obviously capable...
Satanta wrote:
"Donald-I'm hearing life...not 40yrs. But there may be no difference."
Sorry I didn't clarify that, Whitebear. She won't be eligible for parole until she's served the minimum of 40 years of her life sentence.
This means, unless there is a pardon(or she escapes or dies in prison before the 40 years are up). there is almost no way(possible nuke attack and they simply open the doors, or sompin' like that) this woman will get out of prison before she is 77 years old.
Hence, 40 years until she's back in "free" society.
Of course, The NWO might let her out when they come to power; they'll need breeding stock for food, and she's obviously capable...
More sloppy reporting. She got life for killing TWO of her children. Charges for killing the other three remain in abeyance.
It is hard to know what I would do if I were on the jury.
This woman knew she was sick and that pregnancies affected her mental health. Yet she kept pumping out children. Now I suppose we could say she is the victim of her religion and her husband, but adults are accountable for THEIR OWN actions. Five young sparks of life were extinguished with premeditation and in a horrible manner.
I would like to think that I would vote for a merciful and quick death. It is the responsibility of society to judge actions and to mete out temporal justice. God will judge her soul.
Aardaerimus
Anunnaku
Satana:
$30k a year to house and feed her?!!! I don't even make $30k a year and I get to support a family of 4. I think we should dunk her in the drink and give the $30k to low income families.
$30k a year to house and feed her?!!! I don't even make $30k a year and I get to support a family of 4. I think we should dunk her in the drink and give the $30k to low income families.
eileen
Inactive
I'm no bleeding heart, but it seems that in this day and time
it is a shame that an obviously very mentally ill person is
thrown into prison. Is that the best we can do? I mean
that is so "dark ages". Maybe our definition of insane is
wrong. If that wasn't an insane thing to do, what the
he$$ is???
judy
it is a shame that an obviously very mentally ill person is
thrown into prison. Is that the best we can do? I mean
that is so "dark ages". Maybe our definition of insane is
wrong. If that wasn't an insane thing to do, what the
he$$ is???
judy
Green Co.
Veteran Member
I think life imprisonment is a most fitting punishment. Most inmates will not tolerate a child killer, so her time will not be easy.
About charging her husband with criminally negligent homicide? According to police records, when Ms Yates called her husband, (before police arrived) she told him "I said it was time. You need to come home" From this statement, I believe he knew she had tried before, or at least confided her intentions to Rusty Yates. Culpability? Another question for the DA's office.
Dennis2
About charging her husband with criminally negligent homicide? According to police records, when Ms Yates called her husband, (before police arrived) she told him "I said it was time. You need to come home" From this statement, I believe he knew she had tried before, or at least confided her intentions to Rusty Yates. Culpability? Another question for the DA's office.
Dennis2
SWR, No it not a kick in the pants to tax payer. its are justice sytem, although far from perfect, its by far mans best attemt and its our justice system that set us appart from much of the world and is worth every penny. My problem is more on the civil side and the outragous amount attorney get.
From what I heard on FoxNews a day or two ago, it's unlikely that Yates will be put in among the other prison inmates. She'll be treated and seperated for everybody's safety. We'll see.
I'm really torn on this one, myself. I'm one of the ones that believe she's really mentally ill. I don't believe however that she should get off scott free for the horrible thing she did. So I guess I'm comfortable with her getting life. Now if she responds to treatment and the mental illness is the whole cause of her actions, her life will be a living hell when she realizes. That will be the cruelest punishment of all. Who could live with oneself?
eileen, I tend to think that being treated in prison and seperated from the rest of the inmates is a whole lot better than being locked up with a bunch of other crazies in a mental institution. But maybe I've just seen too many bad movies.
I'm really torn on this one, myself. I'm one of the ones that believe she's really mentally ill. I don't believe however that she should get off scott free for the horrible thing she did. So I guess I'm comfortable with her getting life. Now if she responds to treatment and the mental illness is the whole cause of her actions, her life will be a living hell when she realizes. That will be the cruelest punishment of all. Who could live with oneself?
eileen, I tend to think that being treated in prison and seperated from the rest of the inmates is a whole lot better than being locked up with a bunch of other crazies in a mental institution. But maybe I've just seen too many bad movies.
Gods1sheep
Deceased
Two years ago this month I was sitting in a neck brace and a lot of pain when my phone rang. It was a criminal psychologist who worked for the public defender in a state where I used to live. They were desperate to help a young man they were positively convinced was terribly mentally ill. He was about to go on trial in a week for the random shootings of three persons, one of whom died.
When they told me who it was, you could have heard me WAIL out loud, and for days, which set back my recovery and had to have the surgery redone months later.
I had been stepmother to this little boy from the ages of 3-6, then again from 7-1/2 to 12. (In between a separation, due to danger to my life). At that time a therapist to whom I'd managed to get him, against his alcoholic abusive whoremongering father's wishes (who then wouldn't testify for his son for the same reason...the truth about his actions would come out) had recommended I leave his father and he go to a foster home, to preserve his and my lives. However, I was able to have his married brother in the Army in Germany take him to live with them after they'd lived with us for 3 mos. and this little boy felt secure with them.
That didn't work out either, for they also drank heavily, and he was in dire straits there, so after one year, he came back to his now-single-again father, and got into drugs to handle a multiplicity of horrible events in his young life. When he reached the mental breaking point, he went out and did something he still cannot account for doing. The public defender's office and their criminal psychologists were sure it was pure rage and pain, plus drugs, and a lesion on his brain, probably caused by cocaine.
So...now they were calling me, having found me through my SS#...to ask me to please go to that state and testify on his behalf, since in our conversation it was apparent that only I knew and would TELL the truth...his two sisters and his brother were too afraid of their father to go against him and testify! Neither would a great number of others they had approached testify.
I became the voice of this young man, whom I had always loved, missed, and wished to remain mother of, despite EVERYONE but one friend begging me not to so imperil myself at the hands of this dangerous father. The public defender arranged to have me picked up in a rental car by an investigator and driven there. They put me up in a motel without using my name, and the second night moved me.
As a witness, not being permitted into the courtroom until my testimony, I did not get to see my former stepson, child of my heart, until I was on the stand. I hadn't seen this 25-year-old since he was twelve. They had warned me, and I'd seen his newspaper photos, but I was still unprepared to see his psychiatrically-drugged condition. He sat there with his feet out as far as they would go under the table, more or less sprawled, and his eyes were unfocused. In other words, like Andrea Yates, he was a vegetable on trial for his life.
With great difficulty and not a few tears, often losing my breath, and the investigator told me causing one hardened artist to gasp and cry for this boy and me, I told his story.
When I finished, the prosecutor, whose table of aides was literally right under my face at a table horribly close to the stand, was upset himself for me. When the judge asked him if he had any cross-examination, he quietly said, "No." I knew he knew that both of us had suffered enough.
One of his sisters had summoned the courage to testify for him by then, BUT only if she would not be asked to say anything against her father, but it was very decent of her to come. I kept saying, to verify my words, "K is here, and she knows what I am saying is true." (She'd been 19 when I married her father.)
The team had told me we would "run the gauntlet" between a wall and columns, with reporters blocking us from going in between the columns to dodge them. I was to only say, "No comment" and keep moving. After a tearful reunion in the courtroom and ladies room, K and I left to run the gauntlet.
However, one male reporter put his mike in my face and said, after I'd said what they told me to, "Don't you want to tell D's story to everyone, as you did in there?" To my amazement the investigator said to me, "This guy is honest. Do it for D." Then he took me aside with this and a female reporter and even rushed back to the hotel nearby to get this boy's toddler studio photo!
When we saw the nightly news that night, and the newspapers next day (UGLY courtroom drawing of me), they spoke for this young person who could not speak, ever, for himself.
The judge (no jury) gave him life in prison. He sits there now. It may be worse than death.
For the first year I wrote continually, sending him childhood photos and anecdotes. They sent back a brand-new Bible I'd sent him...some rehab! They would not allow him to receive any foods sent via catalogs...only a local so-so store, IF I met various criteria...for Christmas. I could not send him a single gift. Only a money order. When I catalog-ordered him a set of drawing materials, due to his natural ability as an artist often raved over by his teachers, they never reached him. He wrote a few paragraphs. Then he called once, a year ago February. I sent him a birthday money order two weeks later. I have not heard from him again. I felt that I needed to let him go, because I could do little or nothing, and if he needed to not respond, that was one of the very, very small choices he had left in life. I do not know if it was from threats from his father to cut off money, or just his own inability to continue to relate.
However, let me tell you about the much-vaunted mental care in prisons in some places. It is non-existent. There was ONE prison in the whole state that offered anything, and his attorneys tried hard to get him into it, but failed. He gets no care for the brain lesion, no psychiatric care, nada. When we spoke, he was just trying to survive.
SO...any of you who think that this mentally-ill woman, whose condition has a medical name and which countless women suffer in one degree or another, and hers compounded by that rotten husband of hers, the pompous so-and-so, and whose psychiatrist failed her miserably, should then also be killed, think on this story and then make your judgement.
I have very different perceptions from this side of the coin.
And...lest anyone say, "Oh, but you've never be the victim!"...please recall my pleas for prayers here several times as I've tried to deal with the murder of a young woman who had become like such a daughter to me that she called me "Mom," affected my life last late August. I am still suffering, and her murderer hasn't been brought to justice yet...the case hasn't budged an inch since I last wrote here about it, seeking prayer, months ago.
Yes, I've seen all facets of the coin. Neither side is pretty. But I have learned from it that none of us is wise enough, good enough, thorough enough, informed enough, to pass judgments if we sit on a jury someday. My brother's done it 7 times, believe it or not, but I am thankful to never have been called, though I'd do it if I were selected (which I don't think I would be!)
When they told me who it was, you could have heard me WAIL out loud, and for days, which set back my recovery and had to have the surgery redone months later.
I had been stepmother to this little boy from the ages of 3-6, then again from 7-1/2 to 12. (In between a separation, due to danger to my life). At that time a therapist to whom I'd managed to get him, against his alcoholic abusive whoremongering father's wishes (who then wouldn't testify for his son for the same reason...the truth about his actions would come out) had recommended I leave his father and he go to a foster home, to preserve his and my lives. However, I was able to have his married brother in the Army in Germany take him to live with them after they'd lived with us for 3 mos. and this little boy felt secure with them.
That didn't work out either, for they also drank heavily, and he was in dire straits there, so after one year, he came back to his now-single-again father, and got into drugs to handle a multiplicity of horrible events in his young life. When he reached the mental breaking point, he went out and did something he still cannot account for doing. The public defender's office and their criminal psychologists were sure it was pure rage and pain, plus drugs, and a lesion on his brain, probably caused by cocaine.
So...now they were calling me, having found me through my SS#...to ask me to please go to that state and testify on his behalf, since in our conversation it was apparent that only I knew and would TELL the truth...his two sisters and his brother were too afraid of their father to go against him and testify! Neither would a great number of others they had approached testify.
I became the voice of this young man, whom I had always loved, missed, and wished to remain mother of, despite EVERYONE but one friend begging me not to so imperil myself at the hands of this dangerous father. The public defender arranged to have me picked up in a rental car by an investigator and driven there. They put me up in a motel without using my name, and the second night moved me.
As a witness, not being permitted into the courtroom until my testimony, I did not get to see my former stepson, child of my heart, until I was on the stand. I hadn't seen this 25-year-old since he was twelve. They had warned me, and I'd seen his newspaper photos, but I was still unprepared to see his psychiatrically-drugged condition. He sat there with his feet out as far as they would go under the table, more or less sprawled, and his eyes were unfocused. In other words, like Andrea Yates, he was a vegetable on trial for his life.
With great difficulty and not a few tears, often losing my breath, and the investigator told me causing one hardened artist to gasp and cry for this boy and me, I told his story.
When I finished, the prosecutor, whose table of aides was literally right under my face at a table horribly close to the stand, was upset himself for me. When the judge asked him if he had any cross-examination, he quietly said, "No." I knew he knew that both of us had suffered enough.
One of his sisters had summoned the courage to testify for him by then, BUT only if she would not be asked to say anything against her father, but it was very decent of her to come. I kept saying, to verify my words, "K is here, and she knows what I am saying is true." (She'd been 19 when I married her father.)
The team had told me we would "run the gauntlet" between a wall and columns, with reporters blocking us from going in between the columns to dodge them. I was to only say, "No comment" and keep moving. After a tearful reunion in the courtroom and ladies room, K and I left to run the gauntlet.
However, one male reporter put his mike in my face and said, after I'd said what they told me to, "Don't you want to tell D's story to everyone, as you did in there?" To my amazement the investigator said to me, "This guy is honest. Do it for D." Then he took me aside with this and a female reporter and even rushed back to the hotel nearby to get this boy's toddler studio photo!
When we saw the nightly news that night, and the newspapers next day (UGLY courtroom drawing of me), they spoke for this young person who could not speak, ever, for himself.
The judge (no jury) gave him life in prison. He sits there now. It may be worse than death.
For the first year I wrote continually, sending him childhood photos and anecdotes. They sent back a brand-new Bible I'd sent him...some rehab! They would not allow him to receive any foods sent via catalogs...only a local so-so store, IF I met various criteria...for Christmas. I could not send him a single gift. Only a money order. When I catalog-ordered him a set of drawing materials, due to his natural ability as an artist often raved over by his teachers, they never reached him. He wrote a few paragraphs. Then he called once, a year ago February. I sent him a birthday money order two weeks later. I have not heard from him again. I felt that I needed to let him go, because I could do little or nothing, and if he needed to not respond, that was one of the very, very small choices he had left in life. I do not know if it was from threats from his father to cut off money, or just his own inability to continue to relate.
However, let me tell you about the much-vaunted mental care in prisons in some places. It is non-existent. There was ONE prison in the whole state that offered anything, and his attorneys tried hard to get him into it, but failed. He gets no care for the brain lesion, no psychiatric care, nada. When we spoke, he was just trying to survive.
SO...any of you who think that this mentally-ill woman, whose condition has a medical name and which countless women suffer in one degree or another, and hers compounded by that rotten husband of hers, the pompous so-and-so, and whose psychiatrist failed her miserably, should then also be killed, think on this story and then make your judgement.
I have very different perceptions from this side of the coin.
And...lest anyone say, "Oh, but you've never be the victim!"...please recall my pleas for prayers here several times as I've tried to deal with the murder of a young woman who had become like such a daughter to me that she called me "Mom," affected my life last late August. I am still suffering, and her murderer hasn't been brought to justice yet...the case hasn't budged an inch since I last wrote here about it, seeking prayer, months ago.
Yes, I've seen all facets of the coin. Neither side is pretty. But I have learned from it that none of us is wise enough, good enough, thorough enough, informed enough, to pass judgments if we sit on a jury someday. My brother's done it 7 times, believe it or not, but I am thankful to never have been called, though I'd do it if I were selected (which I don't think I would be!)
Last edited:
Desert Fox
Inactive
A life sentence for a sane person would be worse than the death penalty in case like this, having to contemplate the crime for life, but then a sane person wouldn't have done what she did in the first place IMO. The death penalty is the only option that would have precluded her from ever being able to have a child again. Many inmates become pregnant within the walls of prison. There should be a tubal litigation or a mandatory abortion policy in place to go with this life sentence. Me personally, if a person cannot be integrated back into society, why keep them on board, and this one cannot be. And this is independent of the financial considerations of keeping them around. What a sad ordeal.
The Fox
The Fox