FOOD Boiling lobsters alive to be banned under new Government legislation

[smokin]

Boiling lobsters alive to be banned under new Government legislation (msn.com)

Rachael Burford

Cooking lobsters by boiling them alive could be banned under animal welfare plans being drawn up by Government ministers.
The Animal Welfare (Sentience) Bill, currently making its way through the House of Lords, only covers animals with a backbone.


But the House is making amendments to the legislation which would mean crabs, lobsters, octopuses, squid and other invertebrates are recognised as sentient beings capable of feeling pain.

It would give them legal protections and stop fishmongers and chefs boiling crustaceans alive. Instead they would have be stunned or chilled before boiling which is believed to be a more humane way of cooking.

Shrink-wrapping live shellfish or posting them is also likely to be banned under the amendment, put forward by Baroness Hayman of Ullock.

It follows a campaign by group Crustacean Compassion, whose supporters include Chris Packham, comedian Bill Bailey and the British Veterinary Association.

The group claims decapod crustaceans can feel pain and suffering and should be included in any new animal welfare legislation.

A clause in the 2006 Animal Welfare Act already provides for their inclusion if “sufficient evidence” of sentience in crustaceans and molluscs is discovered.

The British Veterinary Association said there is a “decade of compelling scientific evidence of their ability to feel pain”.

“Three years ago, in 2018, we delivered our campaign to then-Environment Secretary Michael Gove and were promised a review of the evidence of decapod crustacean sentience,” a spokesman added.

The Conservative Animal Welfare Foundation, whose patrons include the prime minister's wife, Carrie, has also called for the legislation to be broadened.
Boiling sea crustaceans alive is already illegal in several countries, including Norway and New Zealand.

The UK government is yet to publish its the scientific evidence on whether cephalopods and decapods are sentient but is expected to form the basis for the government’s decision.

Maisie Tomlinson, co-director of Crustacean Compassion, told the Times: "It is wonderful to hear that the government is planning to support the inclusion of decapods and cephalopods in the sentience bill.

“There is more than enough evidence for the ability of these sensitive, captivating creatures to feel pain and suffer. They undergo appalling treatment in the food industry."

 

[smokin]

No.... really.....it was dead when i dropped it into the pot.

 

[raven]

Are they going to include all bugs?

 

[night driver]

Drop it into a warm ethanol pot and then move to boiling water after the critter is completely drunk.
The ethanol boils off and you never notice it.

 

[Dennis Olson]

NOTE: For non-US stories, you either need to use the INTL prefix or state the country in the thread title.

Please adjust.

Thanks

 

[Dennis Olson]

Lobsters do not have a limbic system and cannot feel pain.

This is pure feelz.

 

[The Mountain]

So how are chefs supposed to kill live lobster before cooking? The current method that I have seen is to shove a chef knife through the thing's carapace behind the eyes. How is that less pain for the animal than the brief shock of hitting boiling water? At least boiling water is a potential natural method of death for these things, i.e. they could fall into a volcanic vent. There aren't many chef knives floating around down there.

 

[greysage]

Eating lobster and crab is a white peoples celebration of systemic racism. The way they dip it in butter (MADE FROM wHITE MILK!!) is mocking of all BIPOC.

 

[barbarossa58]

Frog legs are next, hell, their damn poisons are already eleminating frogs..,.

 

[Dennis Olson]

How is that less pain for the animal than the brief shock of hitting boiling water?

Since they don’t feel pain, your question is irrelevant.

 

[Delta]

Shoot 'em.

 

[barbarossa58]

Boil alive all msicreants and scum, beheading isn't enough...

 

[energy_wave]

Stun or chill all fetus before aborting.

 

[Sid Vicious]

 

[Publius]

View attachment 275873

Having done my share of crabbing and I can tell you that crab is already dead, the method shown works well with soft shells and leather back crabs and a soft shell and leather back is a crab that has Sheed its old shell and the new shell has yet to harden.

 

[Dobbin]

Owner puts his lobsters to sleep.

How to humanely kill and hypnotize a lobster

Amazingly enough, before cooking a lobster I always put them to sleep (traditionally known as the "Claw" stand). For some reason, it just se...

www.timvidraeats.com

He normally stands them and curls the tail into a question mark.

I've watched when he's had a BIG lobster boil - he stands them up in a row on the driveway.

Dobbin

 

[Macgyver]

I think one of the other eu countries tried this a few years ago and it failed.

 

[ShadowMan]

I seriously think they have totally LOST THEIR MINDS in England. They have turned into TOTAL WHIMPS and CANDYARSES!! They used to be EnglishMEN....but they've become Englishpersons. So sad. I wonder what Edward "Long Shanks" would have to say about things today?

 

[Housecarl]

I seriously think they have totally LOST THEIR MINDS in England. They have turned into TOTAL WHIMPS and CANDYARSES!! They used to be EnglishMEN....but they've become Englishpersons. So sad. I wonder what Edward "Long Shanks" would have to say about things today?

Two World Wars and a lot of immigration to the colonies will tend to do that.....

 

[Faroe]

The main reason I don't eat lobster.
So, shoot me.

 

[colonel holman]

The main reason I don't eat lobster.
So, shoot me.

And thus you are given an actual choice in the mattrer, something disappearing fast.
Lobster meat goes really bad realy fast, so boiling alive assures fresh enough to be safe.
Too many would kill it first and some may not get the boil soon enough to avoid food poisoning of the nasty kind
Maine native speaking here

 

[Millwright]

I reckon they would really freak at a crawfish boil.

 

[naegling62]

In keeping with the current Green Energy craze I say electrocution with a Tesla battery.

 

[Raggedyman]

these peeps obviously never did florida lobsters . . . break em in half - tail goes in the pot other half over the side

 

[Esto Perpetua]

Lobsters do not have a limbic system and cannot feel pain.

This is pure feelz.

Guilt free lobster?

Awesome!

 

[Ractivist]

Don't tell them about the rabbits we grow.....kill....and eat.

 

[Cardinal]

In keeping with the current Green Energy craze I say electrocution with a Tesla battery.

Close.

Do Lobsters Feel Pain?

Find out whether lobsters feel pain, then learn the most humane ways to cook a lobster.

www.thoughtco.com

By
Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D.

• 
  

Updated May 02, 2018
The traditional method for cooking a lobster—boiling it alive—raises the question of whether or not lobsters feel pain. This cooking technique (and others, such as storing the live lobster on ice) is used to improve humans' dining experience. Lobsters decay very quickly after they die, and eating a dead lobster increases the risk of food-borne illness and reduces the quality of its flavor. However, if lobsters are capable of feeling pain, these cooking methods raise ethical questions for chefs and lobster eaters alike.

How Scientists Measure Pain
Until the 1980s, scientists and veterinarians were trained to ignore animal pain, based on the belief that the ability to feel pain was associated only with higher consciousness.
However, today, scientists view humans as a species of animal, and largely accept that many species (both vertebrates and invertebrate) are capable of learning and some level of self-awareness. The evolutionary advantage of feeling pain to avoid injury makes it likely that other species, even those with dissimilar physiology from humans, might have analogous systems that enable them to feel pain.
If you slap another person in the face, you can gauge their pain level by what they do or say in response. It's more difficult to assess pain in other species because we cannot communicate as easily. Scientists have developed the following set of criteria to establish a pain response in non-human animals:

• Demonstrating a physiological response to a negative stimulus.
• Having a nervous system and sensory receptors.
• Having opioid receptors and showing a reduced response the stimuli when given anesthetics or analgesics.
• Demonstrating avoidance learning.
• Displaying protective behavior of injured areas.
• Electing to avoid a noxious stimulus over meeting some other need.
• Possessing self-awareness or the ability to think.

Whether Lobsters Feel Pain

The yellow nodes in this crayfish diagram illustrate the nervous system of a decapod, such as a lobster. John Woodcock / Getty Images
Scientists disagree over whether or not lobsters feel pain. Lobsters have a peripheral system like humans, but instead of a single brain, they possess segmented ganglia (nerve cluster). Because of these differences, some researchers argue lobsters are too dissimilar to vertebrates to feel pain and that their reaction to negative stimuli is simply a reflex.
Nonetheless, lobsters and other decapods, such as crabs and shrimp, do satisfy all of the criteria for a pain response. Lobsters guard their injuries, learn to avoid dangerous situations, possess nociceptors (receptors for chemical, thermal, and physical injury), possess opioid receptors, respond to anesthetics, and are believed to possess some level of consciousness. For these reasons, most scientists believe that injuring a lobster (e.g. storing it on ice or boiling it alive) inflicts physical pain.
Due to growing evidence that the decapods may feel pain, it is now becoming illegal to boil lobsters alive or keep them on ice. Currently, boiling lobsters alive is illegal in Switzerland, New Zealand, and the Italian city Reggio Emilia. Even in locations where boiling lobsters remains legal, many restaurants opt for more humane methods, both to appease customer consciences and because the chefs believe stress negatively affects the flavor of the meat.

A Humane Way to Cook a Lobster

Boiling a live lobster isn't the most human way to kill it. AlexRaths / Getty Images
While we cannot know definitively whether or not lobsters feel pain, research indicates that it's likely. So, if you want to enjoy a lobster dinner, how should you go about it? The least humane ways to kill a lobster include:

• Placing it in fresh water.
• Placing it in boiling water or putting it in water that is then brought to boiling.
• Microwaving it while alive.
• Cutting off its limbs or separating its thorax from abdomen (because its "brain" isn't just in its "head").

This rules out most of the usual butchering and cooking methods. Stabbing a lobster in the head isn't a good option, either, as it neither kills the lobster nor renders it unconscious.
The most humane tool for cooking a lobster is the CrustaStun. This device electrocutes a lobster, rendering it unconscious in less than half a second or killing it in 5 to 10 seconds, after which it can be cut apart or boiled. (In contrast, it takes about 2 minutes for a lobster to die from immersion in boiling water.)
Unfortunately, the CrustaStun is too expensive for most restaurants and people to afford. Some restaurants place a lobster in a plastic bag and place it in the freezer for a couple of hours, during which time the crustacean loses consciousness and dies. While this solution is not ideal, it is probably the most humane option for killing a lobster (or crab or shrimp) before cooking and eating it.

Key Points

• The central nervous system of a lobster is very different from that of humans and other vertebrates, so some scientists suggest we cannot definitively say whether or not lobsters feel pain.
• However, most scientists agree that lobsters feel pain based on the following criteria: possessing a peripheral nervous system with appropriate receptors, reaction to opioids, guarding injuries, learning to avoid negative stimuli, and electing to avoid negative stimuli over meeting other needs.
• Putting lobsters on ice or boiling them alive is illegal in some locations, including Switzerland, New Zealand, and Reggio Emilia.
• The most humane way to kill a lobster is by electrocution using a device called CrustaStun.

Selected References

• Barr, S., Laming, P.R., Dick, J.T.A. and Elwood, R.W. (2008). "Nociception or pain in a decapod crustacean?". Animal Behaviour. 75 (3): 745–751.
• Casares, F.M., McElroy, A., Mantione, K.J., Baggermann, G., Zhu, W. and Stefano, G.B. (2005). "The American lobster, Homarus americanus, contains morphine that is coupled to nitric oxide release in its nervous and immune tissues: Evidence for neurotransmitter and hormonal signaling". Neuro Endocrinol. Lett. 26: 89–97.
• Crook, R.J., Dickson, K., Hanlon, R.T. and Walters, E.T. (2014). "Nociceptive sensitization reduces predation risk". Current Biology. 24 (10): 1121–1125.
• Elwood, R.W. & Adams, L. (2015). "Electric shock causes physiological stress responses in shore crabs, consistent with prediction of pain". Biology Letters. 11 (11): 20150800.
• Gherardi, F. (2009). "Behavioural indicators of pain in crustacean decapods". Annali dell'Istituto Superiore di Sanità. 45 (4): 432–438.
• Hanke, J., Willig, A., Yinon, U. and Jaros, P.P. (1997). "Delta and kappa opioid receptors in eyestalk ganglia of a crustacean". Brain Research. 744 (2): 279–284.
• Maldonado, H. & Miralto, A. (1982). "Effect of morphine and naloxone on a defensive response of the mantis shrimp (Squilla mantis)". Journal of Comparative Physiology. 147 (4): 455–459.
• Price, T.J. & Dussor, G. (2014). "Evolution: the advantage of 'maladaptive' pain plasticity". Current Biology. 24 (10): R384–R386.
• Puri, S. & Faulkes, Z. (2015). "Can crayfish take the heat? Procambarus clarkii show nociceptive behaviour to high temperature stimuli, but not low temperature or chemical stimuli". Biology Open: BIO20149654.
• Rollin, B. (1989). The Unheeded Cry: Animal Consciousness, Animal Pain, and Science. Oxford University Press, pp. xii, 117-118, cited in Carbone 2004, p. 150.
• Sandeman, D. (1990). "Structural and functional levels in the organization of decapod crustacean brains". Frontiers in Crustacean Neurobiology. Birkhäuser Basel. pp. 223–239.
• Sherwin, C.M. (2001). "Can invertebrates suffer? Or, how robust is argument-by-analogy?". Animal Welfare (supplement). 10: S103–S118.
• Sneddon, L.U., Elwood, R.W., Adamo, S.A. and Leach, M.C. (2014). "Defining and assessing animal pain". Animal Behaviour. 97: 201–212.

 

[colonel holman]

boiling is a quick death itself. Drop it in at full boil, probably the quickest death available.
SOP

We know when lobster is cheaper than basic steak, even burger, even hot dogs up here, downeast.
Have had patients pay off their bill with lobster, plus wild Maine blueberry pie. Damn.
Another with Maine maple syrup moonshine. Damn

 

[155 arty]

Don't tell them about the rabbits we grow.....kill....and eat.

They really don't want to know about s.e.r.e training!!!!!lmfao

 

[Satanta]

When I livd in Beaumont [[S.E. Texas]] I and/or one of my GF's would roll down to the coastal areas-marshes, inlets and such, then spend the day crab fishing. Tossed them into ice chests covered with, well, ice...most were no longer functioning living orgamisms by days end and any that might have been were Stoned Cold-just like any insect or reptile put in an environment not suited for them, they slowed way down and eventually stopped. Living.

 

[Millwright]

When I livd in Beaumont [[S.E. Texas]] I and/or one of my GF's would roll down to the coastal areas-marshes, inlets and such, then spend the day crab fishing. Tossed them into ice chests covered with, well, ice...most were no longer functioning living orgamisms by days end and any that might have been were Stoned Cold-just like any insect or reptile put in an environment not suited for them, they slowed way down and eventually stopped. Living.

If you freeze crabs without blanching them, they will be empty in a few weeks.

 

[Satanta]

Lobsters do not have a limbic system and cannot feel pain.

This is pure feelz.

Well, sort of. They do feel pain-toss a live crab into a firepit and watch it writhe.

Pain in the manner we do? Probly not but it has been shown even Plants have reactions to what one might call "Pain Stimulus'.

Remember that and hear the faint screams of the millions of blades of grass as your behead them next time you mow.

 

[Satanta]

If you freeze crabs without blanching them, they will be empty in a few weeks.

I'll keep that in mind.

I was in an apartment with a slightly smaller than standard freezer over fridge. Big enough for a few ice trays and pot pies but not for a pizza-definitely not for an ice chest filled with crabs.

We'd have crab boils in the parking lot or I'd do them up and put the meat in baggies or whatever for Gumbo orfreezing.

Like now, we'd have the space for a lot but I'd still baggies the meat, dehydrate or can the meat to save space.

 

[marsh]

I had French Canadian neighbor. One time, he bought some live lobsters on a trip to eastern Canada and tried to bring them back on the plane with him. Customs said no, so he bought them collars and leashes and got them home as pets.... or so the story goes. He told me they cooked them in the dishwasher on hot setting.... but you never knew if it was a tall tale with Lou.

 

[Oscar Wilde]

At first glance I thought the op was going to tell us
that an angry rock, headbangin, heavy metal, grunge
punk band was not going to be permitted to perform
but we're talkin 'bout crustaceans ... woulda made
a great stage name eh, "Boiling Lobsters" performing
live at the Acropolis, or wherever.

O.W.

 

[Esto Perpetua]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n4QSYx4wVQg


7 minutes running time

 

[Squib]

These people are, no doubt, crazy or evil.

’They’ won’t let a young lady see a video of an abortion before she decides to have one herself…

Reason why? It’s murder out & out and we all know it - yet ‘they’ act like they’re full of compassion for a big shrimp?

 

[Walrus Whisperer]

Don't tell them about the rabbits we grow.....kill....and eat.

Or my chickens. I just helped a couple kill and process their ancient chickens, one was 6 yrs old- she seemed very okay with it. When I have to do mine, they get loved on beforehand, I showed the couple that stuff. Even though the couple are raging liberal kooks, they had a great outlook about life and the facts thereof. I even got paid for my time! I almost fell over!

 

[WalknTrot]

I have no problem with pithing them first. I probably would - it might be quicker/more humane than boiling water.

No skin off me to do it - and shouldn't interfere with the quality of the meat.

 

[PghPanther]

I've never eaten lobster................grew up too poor and never experienced eating it and not being fond of shellfish in general so I won't eat it now.............

Shellfish are ocean cleaners.....bottom feeders.............as a result they have lots of interesting trace nutrients in them but equal amounts of interesting toxins as well...............not worth taking the risk to eat.