ECON Bix Weir - UPDATE 10/27 - CDS, GREECE AND NEXT WEEK.

Ben Sunday

Deceased
Here is the very latest from Bix Weir. He has many misgivings and concerns about the Greece-EU deal from last night.

Sounds intense, so please read it if you have an interest in such things.

As always, FWIW.
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The new "Deal" coming out of Europe is a lose-lose-lose-lose agreement!

The real problem is not the Greek debt but rather the Greek CDS market which towers over the Greek bonds issued. The bond holders and "system gamers" bought massive amounts of CDS's to cover their exposure but with the "voluntary" 50% payoff nobody knows what to do with the CDS payouts. Here's the latest:

Greek Accord Won't Trigger Credit-Default Swaps, ISDA Rules Say
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...gger-credit-default-swaps-isda-rules-say.html

The ISDA knows that their damned if they do and their damned if they don't trigger the CDS payouts! Now all those banks that said they had no exposure to Greek debt have to admit that they actually WERE NOT hedged properly with CDS's after all.

If the CDS's don't payout let's look at the losers:

- Greece still has to pay 50% on bonds issued and has no future prospects for issuing new debt or coming out of their economic woes.

- Greek bond holders are only going to get 50% return on their "safe government" investments and will have to take an immediate writedown.

- Credit Default Swap holders likely will NOT get paid out because this "mandated" deal is classified as "voluntary"

- Banks that claimed to have hedged their Greece exposure with CDS's now have to declare their true exposure that has already been devalued by 50%

- The CDS market, which was already a shaky part of the Quadrillion dollar derivative complex, has now proven to be an unreliable hedging mechanism

And on and on and on...

This "Stability" that the EU has just provided should only last a matter of DAYS before the world is turned upside down!

Stay safe out there.

Bix Weir
www.RoadtoRoota.com
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Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Ladies and Gentlemen:

Please fasten your seatbelts.

Oxygen masks and barf bags are in the ceiling compartment above your seats.

Some turbulence ahead expected.
 

emiliozapata

Senior Member
why be pessimistic

I am hoping for the best with this and see no reason for these naysayers to always seek the worst. A ways back I did the same, always looking for the conspiracy in everything and the "collapse". Now I just wanna live out my life in peace and contentment and look forward to my elected government to do the right thing
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
I am hoping for the best with this and see no reason for these naysayers to always seek the worst. A ways back I did the same, always looking for the conspiracy in everything and the "collapse". Now I just wanna live out my life in peace and contentment and look forward to my elected government to do the right thing

Like they've been doing so far, right???

National Debt
Deficit
War in Iraq
10% + unemployment
"Fast and Furious"

etc., etc., etc.,....

By the way, I do not see acknowledging reality as "seeking the worst"...
 

fairbanksb

Freedom Isn't Free
I am hoping for the best with this and see no reason for these naysayers to always seek the worst. A ways back I did the same, always looking for the conspiracy in everything and the "collapse". Now I just wanna live out my life in peace and contentment and look forward to my elected government to do the right thing

But this is a doomer board and a matter of Days means another doom thread. Of course Days could last for months or even years if the past doomer threads mean anything.
 

Ben Sunday

Deceased
I am hoping for the best with this and see no reason for these naysayers to always seek the worst. A ways back I did the same, always looking for the conspiracy in everything and the "collapse". Now I just wanna live out my life in peace and contentment and look forward to my elected government to do the right thing


Why, E.Z? Because the deal has serious issues that create new risks and, in some cases, exacerbate the existing risks. There is nothing wrong with a well established pundit helping the readers to think their way through the mess.

You look forward to your elected government doing the right thing? Well, that explains and clarifies your approach. You might want to think about what Nietzsche said about expecting the best from men supposedly a notch up the food chain:

"I sought great human beings, but found only the apes of that ideal".

He spoke on "untimely men" for indeed they were and still are.
 

emiliozapata

Senior Member
my take

Hey, I truely understand where you folks are coming from. I don't have my blinders on by any means, and I understand that governments are less than savory in most of their doings, but all in all I am burnt out on the negativity. I think starting at the local level, we as Americans need to entrust our officials with a "trust but verify" confidence that we are behind them, quit playing in to the divide and conquer game and build a future. Mankind's problems are real, real big, and here to stay that is for sure but I have been in this game since I was a young teenager devouring every issue of American Survival Guide magazine if any of you all remember that. If not, think late eighties.

Most of what I thought I knew and knew would happen never has and my greatest threats turned out to be hot air and outright BS.

I stand by my post, I am optimistic that the "leaders" currently working to solve these problems will be able to empower us to have good futures of peace and financial opportunity.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Hey, I truely understand where you folks are coming from. I don't have my blinders on by any means, and I understand that governments are less than savory in most of their doings, but all in all I am burnt out on the negativity. I think starting at the local level, we as Americans need to entrust our officials with a "trust but verify" confidence that we are behind them, quit playing in to the divide and conquer game and build a future. Mankind's problems are real, real big, and here to stay that is for sure but I have been in this game since I was a young teenager devouring every issue of American Survival Guide magazine if any of you all remember that. If not, think late eighties.

Most of what I thought I knew and knew would happen never has and my greatest threats turned out to be hot air and outright BS.

I stand by my post, I am optimistic that the "leaders" currently working to solve these problems will be able to empower us to have good futures of peace and financial opportunity.

Proverbs 25:19---




New Living Translation (©2007)
Putting confidence in an unreliable person in times of trouble is like chewing with a broken tooth or walking on a lame foot.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Trusting in a treacherous man in time of trouble is like a bad tooth or a foot that slips.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Confidence in an unfaithful man in time of trouble is like a broken tooth, and a foot out of joint.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Like a bad tooth and a foot out of joint, so is trust in a liar in the day of trouble.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
[Like] a broken tooth and a lame foot, [so] is confidence in an unfaithful person in a [time of] crisis.
 

fairbanksb

Freedom Isn't Free
Proverbs 25:19---




New Living Translation (©2007)
Putting confidence in an unreliable person in times of trouble is like chewing with a broken tooth or walking on a lame foot.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Trusting in a treacherous man in time of trouble is like a bad tooth or a foot that slips.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Confidence in an unfaithful man in time of trouble is like a broken tooth, and a foot out of joint.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Like a bad tooth and a foot out of joint, so is trust in a liar in the day of trouble.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
[Like] a broken tooth and a lame foot, [so] is confidence in an unfaithful person in a [time of] crisis.

Doesn't it also say that GOD puts our leaders in position and we should pray for them?
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Of course.

But I don't see "praying for them" to mean I leave my brain at the door, and refuse to acknowledge that someone is foolish, incompetent, or perhaps even downright EVIL when I see it.

Merely getting elected to office doesn't wash away all sin---or even all stupidity---and suddenly convert a fool into a wise man, or a rascal into a saint.

God can "use" even EVIL men to do His will---HE is sovereign---but that still doesn't mean we don't SUFFER under the foot of tyrannical rulers.

And, as an American, I firmly BELIEVE the statement in our Declaration of Independence that our rights are given us BY GOD, NOT by our rulers or our government, and that when rulers or governments become DESTRUCTIVE of those God-given rights, it is not only our responsibility and right but our DUTY to OPPOSE them.

"Do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but even EXPOSE them..."

"We must obey GOD rather than men..."

If necessary, we must OPPOSE evil, and we may even have to SUFFER for doing so, but I do not believe God has called us to shut our eyes and ears to the TRUTH and try to pretend someone is good when they are manifestly evil, or that their works are right and wise when they are OBVIOUSLY NOT...

And the THREAD is about the FACT that Greece is about to DEFAULT, and NO POWER ON EARTH can stop that at this point, so we need to get ready.

It's not about Obama or any other "leader" being able to save us from this crisis--

So we NEED to stop trying to stick our heads in the sand and pretend it's NOT as bad as it really IS, and seriously consider what we are going to DO to deal with what IS coming....
 

minkykat

Komplainy Kat
Hey, I truely understand where you folks are coming from. I don't have my blinders on by any means, and I understand that governments are less than savory in most of their doings, but all in all I am burnt out on the negativity. I think starting at the local level, we as Americans need to entrust our officials with a "trust but verify" confidence that we are behind them, quit playing in to the divide and conquer game and build a future. Mankind's problems are real, real big, and here to stay that is for sure but I have been in this game since I was a young teenager devouring every issue of American Survival Guide magazine if any of you all remember that. If not, think late eighties.

Most of what I thought I knew and knew would happen never has and my greatest threats turned out to be hot air and outright BS.

I stand by my post, I am optimistic that the "leaders" currently working to solve these problems will be able to empower us to have good futures of peace and financial opportunity.

You voted for the "chosen one" didn't you?
 

Bumblepuff

Veteran Member
Now I just wanna live out my life in peace and contentment
and look forward to my elected government to do the right thing

Obama-smiling-200x233.jpg


"Thanks for your support, friend. I promise you that if you will be patient and let me
do the right thing to make important changes in the days ahead, then your hope in
our government will be rewarded. Even though the European leaders are freaking
out at the economic chaos unraveling faster than toilet paper flung over the Grand
Canyon and are running around like their Greecy hair is on fire, we here in the United
States of America are safe and secure from their problems. I will never allow the Old
World contagion to taint our blessed nation. 'Nope, not gonna happen, wouldn't be
prudent,'
to quote a former president. Believe in me as the Commander-In-Chief of
the greatest military power in the history of the world, and we shall reach the stars!
If the Europeans fall down and crash, well, then they'll see different stars. Heh heh!"
 

Be Well

may all be well
Quote Originally Posted by emiliozapata View Post
I am hoping for the best with this and see no reason for these naysayers to always seek the worst. A ways back I did the same, always looking for the conspiracy in everything and the "collapse". Now I just wanna live out my life in peace and contentment and look forward to my elected government to do the right thing


ROTFLMAO!


:lkick::lkick::lkick:
 
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Ben Sunday

Deceased
Last night's deal wasn't such a deal after examining the outcomes, the winners, the losers and the games that got played. This shall not prevail, apparently.

Here is some more info on the numbers. I hope somebody can decipher it because I had a helluva time trying to post it.

-----



Here Is How The 50% Greek Haircut Is Actually Just 28%
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/26/2011 22:50 -0400

European Central Bank Greece Gross Domestic Product


Just the math, something Europe is unable to do:

Greece has €350 billion in total debt including about €70 billion in Troika "post-petition" loans; these are untouched.

Of the €280 billion, roughly €75 billion is held by the ECB: this, like the Troika loans, will be untouched.

This leaves just ~€200 billion in actual debt to undergo a haircut.
Apply a 50% haircut to this debt (ignoring the fact that of this about €35 billion is held by Greek pension funds, and once the realization that Greek pensions have been cut in half dawns upon the population, the result will be the biggest riots ever seen in Athens yet).

Total debt to be cut: just about €100 billion.

Hence, of the total €350 billion, just €100 billion is eliminated, most of it used to backstop and service Greek pension and retirement obligations
€250, or the residual, of €350, the original, means 72%, or a 28% haircut.

Greek GDP was €230 billion on December 31, 2010 and declining fast.

And that is how a 50% haircut is "cut" almost in half


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/here-how-50-greek-haircut-actually-just-28
 
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Y2kO

Inactive
They aren't fooling many people in the world. This is just bandaids to hold it together for a few weeks longer - and most aren't buying that. Gold and silver have started to climb no matter what song and dance comes out of these meetings. People know that it just postpones the collapse.
 

skip8

Membership Revoked
I simply have a really bad feeling about these rallies in the face of the underlying impossibilities of gargantuan global debts and derivatives in quadrillions!
 

Ben Sunday

Deceased
I simply have a really bad feeling about these rallies in the face of the underlying impossibilities of gargantuan global debts and derivatives in quadrillions!

Too bad more folks like you were not involved in the process. Cheap political and economic games are always short term. Impress the suckers with the flash and the fury while obscuring the fact there is no substance underneath.

See the Graham Summers article that Jonas Parker posted today. An eye opener. BTW...the Dow is not nearly as frisky today.
 
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