GUNS/RLTD BB pistol - a great alternative to the real thing

[Jubilee on Earth]

I thought I’d post this in case a) anyone has a wife, girlfriend, or teen who is hesitant to learn to shoot b) you can’t own a pistol for whatever reason or c) ammo is too expensive for target practice.

I was denied a permit to purchase a pistol because my husband is a felon. We live in a very remote area with bears and wolves and cougars, and I often like to go for a walk or jog in the woods. As a female, I also worry about two-legged predators. I’m allowed to have a long rifle so long as it’s locked up in a box and I only have the key. But that doesn’t do me any good while I’m out jogging.

That’s where the BB pistol comes in. I bought myself the Glock 19 version, licensed by Glock. It's powers by a CO2 canister, which lasts about 100 shots. It shoots .177 caliber BBs at roughly 400 feet per second, and has a 16 round magazine. It looks and feels like the real thing. I found out that a lot of people use this for target practice to save on ammo. It also makes it less intimidating to learn how to shoot. My husband was amazed at what a good shot I am, and he says it’s because I didn’t spend hours and hours anticipating the trigger pull of a real pistol. There are all kinds of different replica BB pistols out there. H&K makes one, as does Sig Sauer, Beretta, etc. No, it’s not going to stop a bear or a pack of wolves. But it looks like the real thing in my holster (I live in an open carry state) and it won’t feel nice if some creeper needs to get hit with a flurry of BBs to the face. Same goes for a coyote or lone wolf. I do also carry bear spray.

Just thought it might be helpful to some if you didn’t know these babies existed. Here's a link, and you can browse by brand:

https://www.airgundepot.com/glock-19-gen-3-bb-pistol.html

 

[parocan]

We have 1 here, I use it on the rats the damn cats can't seem to get.

 

[nebb]

Look into your states laws about cap and ball revolvers. They make some nice ones with short barrels and are not that difficult to load and carry.

 

[Jubilee on Earth]

We have 1 here, I use it on the rats the damn cats can't seem to get.

Yep, great for pests. We have one squirrel that insists on coming onto the screen porch to try to get into our cooler. A few shots in his direction and he takes off for a few days. Keep it up and he might become dinner.

They’re fun to play and plink around with, too. BBs and CO2 canisters are cheap.

 

[Thunderbird]

I use an Air Soft gun to train with. It is powered with propane. The only thing is the trigger is lighter than a real hand gun. A BB gun is probably best for your purpose. The suggestion about a cap and ball revolver is an excellent one. Just got a flyer from Midway and they are on sale. You can mail order them no problem.

 

[Doc1]

Under federal law, felons (and their immediate family members under the same roof) can own cap & ball revolvers and black powder rifles and shotguns. State laws vary, but many if not most states allow felons to own C&B revolvers, too. Very roughly, a .44 C&B revolver has ballistics on par with a modern .38 Special. The strongest .44 C&B of the era was the 1858 Remington. Modern, steel-framed reproductions are available reasonably.

Best regards
Doc

 

[Macgyver]

I know about the you have to keep it away from the felon part, but I thought you still could own any gun?

 

[Freeholder]

This post made me wonder -- would a .22 pellet pistol have enough power to use it for butchering goats? Point-blank into the back of the head....

Kathleen

 

[Mercury3]

We use to have BB gun fights way back around sixth or seventh grade time frame. It would be totally ineffective against any predator you run into while jogging. Especially a cougar. I don't think it would even slow it down in the least.

I dunno just saying.

 

[Jubilee on Earth]

Under federal law, felons (and their immediate family members under the same roof) can own cap & ball revolvers and black powder rifles and shotguns. State laws vary, but many if not most states allow felons to own C&B revolvers, too. Very roughly, a .44 C&B revolver has ballistics on par with a modern .38 Special. The strongest .44 C&B of the era was the 1858 Remington. Modern, steel-framed reproductions are available reasonably.

Best regards
Doc

Thanks! Great info!!

 

[Doc1]

I know about the you have to keep it away from the felon part, but I thought you still could own any gun?

The condensed version is that the non-felon can own any legal firearms, however felons aren't (generally) allowed to live in a household where they could have access to modern guns. The conundrum is that, for example, a non-felon wife with a felon husband cannot in a practical context have a pistol in the home without causing her husband to be in violation and possibly causing herself some legal jeopardy. This is also true of ammunition and many (successful) cases have been brought against convicted felons who were in traffic stops where something as innocuous as a single round of .22 was perhaps found under a vehicle's floor mat that the felon didn't even know was there.

For the record, while I come down hard on violent crime, I am opposed to laws which prevent convicted felons from owning firearms. IMHO, once a felon has completed their sentence, all of their civil rights should be restored. I do not however write the laws.

Best regards
Doc

 

[bw]

This post made me wonder -- would a .22 pellet pistol have enough power to use it for butchering goats? Point-blank into the back of the head....

No. Do a ballistics test. Borrow a pistol and try it on a goat you've killed.

 

[Jubilee on Earth]

I know about the you have to keep it away from the felon part, but I thought you still could own any gun?

Legally, yes. But, our local power-hungry sheriff's office refused to issue me a purchase permit. They said, (verbatim) “we aren’t comfortable with that.” I didn’t know that comfort came into play when making a legal decision. This is the country we live in. I could in theory buy from a private dealer, or try a different county. I could have probably even gone to a judge. But it wasn’t worth the headache. I didn’t want them on us, irritated that we went around them. The law is subjective, you know.

 

[Jubilee on Earth]

We use to have BB gun fights way back around sixth or seventh grade time frame. It would be totally ineffective against any predator you run into while jogging. Especially a cougar. I don't think it would even slow it down in the least.

I dunno just saying.

You haven’t seen this thing shoot. It would hurt like hell if I shot a coyote or a wolf. Especially if I unloaded several BBs at them. A cougar is a stealth predator, and I wouldn’t even have time to react before it was on me. Hence, I carry a big knife on me as well.

 

[Displaced hillbilly]

There are also some .22 caliber air pistols out there too. We have a .177 air rifle. I wouldn’t mind a little .22 air pistol to have around.

 

[hiwall]

This post made me wonder -- would a .22 pellet pistol have enough power to use it for butchering goats? Point-blank into the back of the head....

Kathleen

Some pellet rifles would be fine for that purpose - but honestly I would still use a firearm. Most any air gun with much power is loud.

 

[Jubilee on Earth]

The condensed version is that the non-felon can own any legal firearms, however felons aren't (generally) allowed to live in a household where they could have access to modern guns. The conundrum is that, for example, a non-felon wife with a felon husband cannot in a practical context have a pistol in the home without causing her husband to be in violation and possibly causing herself some legal jeopardy. This is also true of ammunition and many (successful) cases have been brought against convicted felons who were in traffic stops where something as innocuous as a single round of .22 was perhaps found under a vehicle's floor mat that the felon didn't even know was there.

For the record, while I come down hard on violent crime, I am opposed to laws which prevent convicted felons from owning firearms. IMHO, once a felon has completed their sentence, all of their civil rights should be restored. I do not however write the laws.

Best regards
Doc

Thanks, Doc. That was very well said. And I agree. I think it should be decided on a case by case basis. That if a felon wants his gun rights back, he should have them based on the amount of time since the crime, how clean their parole was, etc. We not only live in the wilderness, but my husband is a hunter. It’s a shame that because of a crime he committed fifteen years ago, he can never hunt with a gun again, or defend himself properly if need be. I have a Ruger 10-22, but it’s in a lock box and only I have the key, and I never take it out. It’s too much of a risk. We know a situation where a guy went back to prison because one of their jerkoff friends got mad about something, so he took a hidden video of this guy's wife setting her gun down on the table where the felon was sitting. He didn’t touch it, but it was in his easy proximity. I wouldn’t think the video would even be admissible, but it was enough to put him back behind bars. She was devastated. It’s crap like that I can’t stand. I won’t take the risk.

 

[Marthanoir]

You haven’t seen this thing shoot. It would hurt like hell if I shot a coyote or a wolf. Especially if I unloaded several BBs at them. A cougar is a stealth predator, and I wouldn’t even have time to react before it was on me. Hence, I carry a big knife on me as well.

what about one of the single shot folding shotguns

Midland Backpack Single Shot Break Action Shotgun 20 Gauge 24" Barrel 3" Chamber 1 Round Foldable Design Synthetic Stock Black Finish

Our Low Price: $127.15

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/pro...s&refType=&from=fn&ecList=7&ecCategory=120255

 

[Satanta]

Another Advocate for the Black Powder route. I had a Ladies Pocket Pistol in .31 when I was 17 till I could legally buy cased handguns and never felt "Under Armed". Had a Navy Revolver in .41 IIRC but trade it to a buddy for one of his painted cowskulls.

Been looking for another kit as I wander thru pawn shops and such.

Worked for Josey Wales.

 

[Dennis Olson]

JoE, you can also make a "private" purchase, for which nothing is required except exchange of payment. Or you can get a Ghost Gun machine and make your own lowers for:

AR15
AR10
Glock
1911

 

[Marthanoir]

In Germany were its extremely difficult to get a conceal carry permit they have non-firearm classed defense pistols that fire BB's & Pellets as well as CS gas & pepper spray, rubber BB's are popular as they dispense more kinetic energy than a lead pellet.

but pepper spray cartridges for blank firing pistols are extremely populat too

maybe look into if Pepper BB's are available in the US for your BB pistol

 

[Dozdoats]

It might be an option to consider a PCP (pre-charged pneumatic) air gun. Some of them are available in larger calibers. Lewis & Clark carried one on their expedition ...

https://www.airgundepot.com/pre-charged-pneumatic-air-rifles.html

 

[Marthanoir]

It might be an option to consider a PCP (pre-charged pneumatic) air gun. Some of them are available in larger calibers. Lewis & Clark carried one on their expedition ...

https://www.airgundepot.com/pre-charged-pneumatic-air-rifles.html

REVIEW: PP700 SA Air Pistol - UK Legal Only Just

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ASmbGn9Lo

In the USA this is the Airmax Precision Match Pistol.

Airgun power

The legal muzzle-energy limit for air rifles is 12ft.lb and for pistols, 6ft.lb. You do not require any form of licence for sub legal-limit airguns. For rifles producing more than 12ft.lb,a Firearms Certificate (FAC) is required. Air pistols that produce more than 6ft.lb are prohibited.

 

[ArisenCarcass]

I actually just got this:
Crosman PSM45 Spring Power SingleShot Pistol PSM45 ($26)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HN1BULG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is a very decent analog for a Glock, without the insane licensing fee they demand. The back grip angle is the same, but the front is slightly smaller. It is almost exactly G34-sized.

I wanted something to practice with rather than just dry-firing, and this is a great tool. Plus the kids love it.

 

[Marthanoir]

Found a similar sort of thing in the US, although it looks to be the size of a HK MK23

https://www.saltsupply.com/collections/pepper-spray-gun/products/s1-pepper-spray-gun-starter-kit

The s1 Pepper Spray Gun provides you with the non-lethal protection of pepper spray and tear gas to keep you and your loved ones safe. It’s ability to shoot long-range distances, like a traditional firearm, allows you to be far from harm’s way while delivering a toxic defense cloud that effectively incapacitates an attacker and can cause temporary blindness, difficulty breathing, and severe impact distress.

The s1 Pepper Spray Gun provides defensive protection and offensive force that keep you safe in threatening situations that are either close up or far away.

Effective at 150+ feet so you don’t have to get close to danger, accuracy not required
CO2 forcefully shoots rounds at 320 ft/second causing severe impact distress
5 ft toxic defense cloud serves as a barrier between you and harm’s way



The s1 Pepper Spray Gun Test by The Modern Rogue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHrKZkwUOwg

They even sell it on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Supply-...=Salt+S1&qid=1558712351&s=gateway&sr=8-4&th=1

 

[bw]

Some pellet rifles would be fine for that purpose - but honestly I would still use a firearm. Most any air gun with much power is loud.

Rifles yes, especially a springer or precharged repeater. Pump air rifle, probably not. Pistols don't develop enough speed IMO.

Remember, for any pumped weapon, the total energy of the projectile is limited by the energy you pump into it. If it's easy to pump, it's worthless as a weapon. The most efficient pump action for small game is a springer firing .177, which can develop over 1k fps and shoots nice and flat.

 

[Dennis Olson]

I have a Benjamin Nitro NT pellet rifle that shoots a .22 pellet at about 900 fps. That's definitely going to leave a mark. Once I put a "CharlieDaTuna" custom trigger into it, it's a joy to use.

 

[TerryK]

One does what they can with what they have and with what their circumstances permit.
Best advice was to look into a cap and ball revolver. It is the best option to give you a lethal capability and still be legal for you and your husband if your state laws allow it.
It's ok with the Feds but some states say ok and some pretty much prohibit anything with a trigger.

 

[Jubilee on Earth]

JoE, you can also make a "private" purchase, for which nothing is required except exchange of payment. Or you can get a Ghost Gun machine and make your own lowers for:

AR15
AR10
Glock
1911

Yep, it’s an option. Some great responses here. I’m looking into all of them. My hubby has the same .22 pellet rifle you do, Dennis. It’s no joke!

 

[bw]

My hubby has the same .22 pellet rifle you do, Dennis. It’s no joke!

A springer makes a redoubtable rifle. Part of the advantage is that the pump energy is stored in the spring instead of a chamber of compressed air, so the pressure doesn't fade over seconds or minutes before you shoot. Whatever you do with it, avoid dieseling by using lube oil intended for springers. Normal oil will diesel and quickly destroy the accuracy.

 

[Snyper]

This post made me wonder -- would a .22 pellet pistol have enough power to use it for butchering goats? Point-blank into the back of the head....

Kathleen

No, they wouldn't reliably kill a goat.

Some of the more expensive 22 pellet rifles would, at point blank range and with perfect shot placement.

Pellet pistols lack the needed velocity.

 

[Snyper]

JoE, you can also make a "private" purchase, for which nothing is required except exchange of payment. Or you can get a Ghost Gun machine and make your own lowers for:

AR15
AR10
Glock
1911

Some states require handgun permits even for private purchases.

 

[Freeholder]

No, they wouldn't reliably kill a goat.

Some of the more expensive 22 pellet rifles would, at point blank range and with perfect shot placement.

Pellet pistols lack the needed velocity.

Thanks to you and the others who replied. I need to just break down and get a regular .22 pistol for the purpose. I'm short and have short arms, and it's hard to hold the goat's collar and position the rifle to shoot it in the correct spot. A pistol would work better.

Kathleen

 

[Dennis Olson]

Some states require handgun permits even for private purchases.

Yes, but very few. And one could always go out of state to make the purchase. It is "private" after all.

 

[samus79]

Found a similar sort of thing in the US, although it looks to be the size of a HK MK23

https://www.saltsupply.com/collections/pepper-spray-gun/products/s1-pepper-spray-gun-starter-kit

The s1 Pepper Spray Gun provides you with the non-lethal protection of pepper spray and tear gas to keep you and your loved ones safe. It’s ability to shoot long-range distances, like a traditional firearm, allows you to be far from harm’s way while delivering a toxic defense cloud that effectively incapacitates an attacker and can cause temporary blindness, difficulty breathing, and severe impact distress.

The s1 Pepper Spray Gun provides defensive protection and offensive force that keep you safe in threatening situations that are either close up or far away.

Effective at 150+ feet so you don’t have to get close to danger, accuracy not required
CO2 forcefully shoots rounds at 320 ft/second causing severe impact distress
5 ft toxic defense cloud serves as a barrier between you and harm’s way



The s1 Pepper Spray Gun Test by The Modern Rogue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHrKZkwUOwg

They even sell it on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Supply-...=Salt+S1&qid=1558712351&s=gateway&sr=8-4&th=1

Interesting, I wonder how much the pepper/CS dissipates in a closed area like a hallway, would you be likely to fall victim to your own weapon? Obviously the attacker would bear the brunt of it. I read a few of the reviews in the Amazon link and apparently you can get the same thing for a hundred bucks cheaper with a spare magazine, this company is repackaging a “Tippman” paintball pistol and you can get the ammo separately. Sounds like a good option for the OPs situation or someone who lives in a state with crappy gun laws. Not sure how well it would work on a bear but it would probably fairly effective for smaller predators.

 

[Dozdoats]

The PSA bug bites again

https://palmettostatearmory.com/her...th-black-pearl-grips-blued-rr22mb4bhbprl.html

These get pretty good reviews across the board - https://mdcreekmore.com/heritage-rough-rider-22-lr-revolver-review/

 

[Knighttemplar]

If you can find a Ruger Old Army it is the finest cap and ball revolver you can buy. I would recomend the stainless over the blued. My 25 pcp rifle would kill a goat but I would not use my 22 pcp pistol for that job. I've used 38 wadcutters to dispatch farm animals with my S&W 649. I load very lite with a heavy hard cast bullet, have to be careful you dont stick a bullet in the barrel.

 

[Marthanoir]

Interesting, I wonder how much the pepper/CS dissipates in a closed area like a hallway, would you be likely to fall victim to your own weapon? Obviously the attacker would bear the brunt of it. I read a few of the reviews in the Amazon link and apparently you can get the same thing for a hundred bucks cheaper with a spare magazine, this company is repackaging a “Tippman” paintball pistol and you can get the ammo separately. Sounds like a good option for the OPs situation or someone who lives in a state with crappy gun laws. Not sure how well it would work on a bear but it would probably fairly effective for smaller predators.

Just checked , yep its a .68cal Tippman paintball pistol, yes the ammo was available separately on Amazon ,
You can also get .68 rubber balls that'll give a nice wallop

 

[Doc1]

This post made me wonder -- would a .22 pellet pistol have enough power to use it for butchering goats? Point-blank into the back of the head....

Kathleen

To ensure a humane and efficient kill, I would use - at least - a .22 Long Rifle. Used, good examples of basic single shot or bolt action .22 rifles can commonly be found at pawnshops and through private parties for around a hundred bucks (try to dicker). There are several large caliber, high end air rifles that pack a much greater wallop than the common .177 or .22 caliber pellet rifles, but they are very expensive. Your best bet, if you have no other firearms, is to start with a basic .22 rifle. If you know your animal anatomy, a .22 is perfectly adequate to dispatch goats and even cattle.

Best regards
Doc

 

[Michiana MaJo]

This is a stupid question, but I've been wondering about something. My late husband got a BB rifle to shoot rabbits that entered our backyard garden. (He never caught any....his vision wasn't as good as he thought it was.)

But, I still have the durn thing leaning in a corner, and wondering what I can do with it. I wonder if someone tried to break in, would it scare anyone, if I grabbed it and pointed at them? Or would they die laughing?

I'm not sure the rubbish man would accept it, if he saw what was in the trash barrel.