REL GENRL At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Well this is going to get really interesting.....

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150904/eu--germany-migrant_baptisms-01a993964d.html

At a Berlin church, Muslim refugees converting in droves

Sep 4, 4:29 AM (ET)
By KIRSTEN GRIESHABER

(AP) Pastor Gottfried Martens prays with people from Iran during a baptism service in the...
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BERLIN (AP) — Mohammed Ali Zonoobi bends his head as the priest pours holy water over his black hair. "Will you break away from Satan and his evil deeds?" pastor Gottfried Martens asks the Iranian refugee. "Will you break away from Islam?"

"Yes," Zonoobi fervently replies. Spreading his hands in blessing, Martens then baptizes the man "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."

Mohammed is now Martin — no longer Muslim, but Christian.

Zonoobi, a carpenter from the Iranian city of Shiraz, arrived in Germany with his wife and two children five months ago. He is one of hundreds of mostly Iranian and Afghan asylum seekers who have converted to Christianity at the evangelical Trinity Church in a leafy Berlin neighborhood.

(AP) An Iranian asylum-seeker wearing a Christian shirt waits to be baptized in the...
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Like Zonoobi, most say true belief prompted their embrace of Christianity. But there's no overlooking the fact that the decision will also greatly boost their chances of winning asylum by allowing them to claim they would face persecution if sent home.

Martens recognizes that some convert in order to improve their chances of staying in Germany — but for the pastor motivation is unimportant. Many, he said, are so taken by the Christian message that it changes their lives. And he estimates that only about 10 percent of converts do not return to church after christening.

"I know there are — again and again — people coming here because they have some kind of hope regarding their asylum," Martens said. "I am inviting them to join us because I know that whoever comes here will not be left unchanged."

Being Christian alone does not help an applicant, and Chancellor Angela Merkel went out of her way this week to reiterate that Islam "belongs in Germany." But in Afghanistan and Iran, for example, conversion to Christianity by a Muslim could be punished by death or imprisonment, and it is therefore unlikely that Germany would deport converted Iranian and Afghan refugees back home.

None will openly admit to converting in order to help their asylum chances. To do so could result in rejection of their asylum bid and deportation as Christian converts. Several candidates for baptism at Martens' church would not give their names out of fear of repercussions for their families back home.

(AP) A cross and a candle stand on a table prior to a service to baptize Iranian...
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Most said their decision was based on belief, but one young Iranian woman said she was convinced most people had joined the church only to improve their chances for asylum.

Congregation member Vesam Heydari initially applied for asylum in Norway and converted there in 2009. But his case was rejected because the Norwegian authorities did not believe he would be persecuted as a Christian in Iran, so he moved to Germany to seek refugee status here — and is awaiting a decision. He criticized many of the other Iranian church members, saying they were making it much harder for "real, persecuted Christians" like himself to get approved for asylum.

"The majority of Iranians here are not converting out of belief," Heydari said. "They only want to stay in Germany."

Meanwhile, as other churches across Germany struggle with dwindling numbers of believers, Martens has seen his congregation swell from 150 just two years to more than 600 parishioners now — with a seemingly unending flow of new refugees finding the way to his congregation. Some come from cities as far away as Rostock on the Baltic Sea, having found out by word-of-mouth that Martens not only baptizes Muslims after a three-month "crash course" in Christianity, but also helps them with asylum pleas.

Other Christian communities across Germany, among them Lutheran churches in Hannover and the Rhineland, have also reported growing numbers of Iranians converting to Christendom. There are no exact numbers on how many Muslims have converted in Germany in recent years — and they are a tiny minority compared to the country's overall 4 million Muslims. But at least for Berlin, Martens describes the number of conversions as nothing short of a "miracle." And he says he has at least another 80 people — mostly refugees from Iran and a few Afghans — waiting to be baptized.

(AP) Iranian asylum-seeker Mohammed Ali Zanoobi shows his "Jesus" tattoo prior to being...
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Germany is witnessing an unprecedented surge of asylum-seekers this year, with the number of migrants expected to reach 800,000 this year, a fourfold increase on last year.

Many of the new arrivals come from Muslim countries such as Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan. While refugees from civil-war-torn Syria will almost definitely be receiving asylum status, the situation is more complicated for asylum seekers from Iran or Afghanistan, which are seen as more stable. In recent years, roughly 40-50 percent from those two countries have been allowed to stay in the country, with many of those getting only temporary permission to remain.

Germany's Federal Office for Migration and Refugees said it does not comment on the reasons individual applicants give when they apply for asylum, or on how many people receive refugee status in Germany based on religious persecution.

Zonoobi, who dressed all in white for his baptism on Sunday, said he had attended secret religious services in Iran ever since friends introduced him to the Bible at age 18. He decided to flee to Germany after several Christian friends were arrested for practicing their religion.

For Zonoobi and his wife Afsaneh — who since her baptism goes by the name of Katarina — the christening marks a new beginning.

"Now we are free and can be ourselves," she said. "Most important, I am so happy that our children will have a good future here and can get a good education in Germany."

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Follow Kirsten Grieshaber on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/kugrieshaber
 

somdwatcher

Veteran Member
This would be amazing....and yes many real churches FLUORISH in Germany and central and eastern Europe. The world is not USA centric when it comes to religion.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
If I recall correctly, Germany (like Sweden) still has State churches to which people are expected to pay taxes; the main ones in Germany are Lutheran and Catholic but there of course are many others (I'm just not sure if they get State support or not).
 

NINER

Contributing Member
Well last time I checked the Holy Spirit still had the power to reach people through tribulation. I give Praise for His work not that of the adversary. Just my 2 cents
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Well last time I checked the Holy Spirit still had the power to reach people through tribulation. I give Praise for His work not that of the adversary. Just my 2 cents

Praise God for the true converts!

This that are doing it to stay in Germany... Meh.

Conversion cannot come at the point of a gun, it is heartfelt.
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Well last time I checked the Holy Spirit still had the power to reach people through tribulation. I give Praise for His work not that of the adversary.
AWESOME!! Praise You LORD GOD!!
Thank you Lord for this revival and the true converts! What a victory in Jesus!!
I PRAY to the Lord that we, in Amerika see conversion in "droves" too!! Oh that our nation would fall to it's knees and turn back to God!! This is my prayer every night~
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
IIRC even saddam Hussains parents were forced to convert to islam at one point, and they were jews. There are a lot of folks who converted to Islam in Iran and Iraq, after the Shaw was thrown out, as a means of survival. The only thing I am sure of is the Holy Spirit knows the truth.
 

Tex88

Veteran Member
> Chancellor Angela Merkel went out of her way this week to reiterate that Islam "belongs in Germany."


(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 

raven

TB Fanatic
Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world.
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
not so fast



This is a new tactic, but religion is not the issue, the cause of mass immigration is political.

Oh... If they're not serious with God, they'll soon learn that He's serious about them...

Thanks for the head's-up...

OA
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
Whether these are genuine conversions or not, if they continue to attend church, and hear the Gospel, they may become real Christians in the future, so I wouldn't knock what's going on.

Also, if you follow Voice of the Martyrs, there have been some amazing stories of genuine conversions in the Middle East. Muslims are coming to know the Lord as Savior through many channels (though all from the Holy Spirit). For that, I praise the Lord!

Kathleen
 

SuElPo

Veteran Member
I also Praise God for the true converts, and pray for the rest that through time they might be changed in some good way.

Susan
 

Dphintias

Veteran Member
Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world.

Exactly what came to my mind when I saw this thread. Maybe some are sincere but I have become a sceptic. It seems to me it is a conversion of convenience borne out of desperation. If I were one of them, I would probably do the same. Doesn't make it real, though. Grain of salt is required here.
 

raven

TB Fanatic
Exactly what came to my mind when I saw this thread. Maybe some are sincere but I have become a sceptic. It seems to me it is a conversion of convenience borne out of desperation. If I were one of them, I would probably do the same. Doesn't make it real, though. Grain of salt is required here.

yea. Several people I used to associate with were fond of saying that they had "Muslim" friends.
I explained Taqiyya to them and they thanked me.
NOT! Everyone one of them rejected the notion that their "friend" would intentionally lie to them on behalf of their religion.
Needless to say these people are no longer friends.

Taqiyya is not new. It is well documented. In fact, I think Sun Tzu promotes this discipline as do all diplomatic relations (except Obama's).
Deception is the art of war.

Now you know. What you do with the information is your choice.
 

Faroe

Un-spun
Hmmm, anchor religion.

Pretty much, although in the case of Iranians, I might be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. Many Iranians are less than enthusiastic about Islam. They recognise that it was imposed on them. They are Persians first. They kept their distinctive artwork after the conquest.
 

Shacknasty Shagrat

Has No Life - Lives on TB
yea. Several people I used to associate with were fond of saying that they had "Muslim" friends.
I explained Taqiyya to them and they thanked me.
NOT! Everyone one of them rejected the notion that their "friend" would intentionally lie to them on behalf of their religion.
Needless to say these people are no longer friends.

Taqiyya is not new. It is well documented. In fact, I think Sun Tzu promotes this discipline as do all diplomatic relations (except Obama's).
Deception is the art of war.

Now you know. What you do with the information is your choice.

Thus the Spanish inquisition to ensure the orthodoxy of Jewish and Muslim converts.
Now we have the Obama Inquisition doing the same thing here in America.
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