INTL Appeal for calm after disorder in Belfast

Melodi

Disaster Cat
While Brexit isn't the DIRECT cause of this starting up again, it was what everyone feared when it became obvious that the border MIGHT go back to being a "hard" border with the north and split Ireland back in two again.

However, it has also been nearly a generation since the peace agreement was signed and there are many young people on both sides of the Nationalists/Unionist (use to be called Catholic and Protestant) "divide" that don't remember the Bad Old Days and probably have semi-romantic notions of the "glory" of "fighting" for the "right" side again.

I'd really hate to go back to the days where bombs going off at street fairs and wedding receptions is almost normal - today, of course, one would also have to ask as the news was broadcast - "which religious terror is it this time?"

Because while it could be Jihadi; it could also be the return of The Troubles 2.0 - that gives me the shudders.

Appeal for calm after disorder in Belfast
Updated / Tuesday, 8 Aug 2017 10:46
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Politicians have said the violence was outrageous

A clean-up operation is under way after disorder in a number of nationalist areas in Belfast saw a building and cars set on fire and police officers attacked.

The trouble flared in the Markets area yesterday afternoon and later spread to the Divis neighbourhood on the other side of the city.

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The removal of wood from a Markets bonfire site by council-hired contractors is understood to have been the trigger for the disorder.

Tensions have been raised in some loyalist and nationalist areas in Belfast this summer amid efforts by the council to take action against a number of unregulated fires.

Bonfires will be lit in some nationalist areas tonight to mark the anniversary of the introduction of the controversial state policy of internment without trial.

Masked young people ran amok in the Markets, which is close to the city centre, after the council operation to remove the wood early yesterday morning.

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The disturbances saw officers targeted with petrol bombs, bricks and bottles while a number of cars were destroyed.


Many were owned by commuters.

The incidents centred in the Stewart Street and Friendly Street areas of the predominantly nationalist neighbourhood.

The shells of three burned-out cars were still on Stewart Street this morning, with commuters continuing to park on the street despite the visible signs of violence.

The trouble in the Divis area of the Lower Falls Road centred on the Ross Road area.
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A derelict credit union building was set alight during the disturbances.

There were also reports of attempts to hijack vehicles in the area.

Last night, the PSNI tweeted: "Police urge for calm to remain after dealing with some localised disorder in Belfast tonight incl blaze at disused building in Divis.

"Thanks to all those in affected communities who helped settle tensions. People living there do not want this type of behaviour."

The disorder was heavily condemned by local politicians.

Sinn Féin councillor for the Markets area Deirdre Hargey said: "The damage to cars in Stewart Street is unacceptable and I condemn those responsible in the strongest possible way.

"Both commuters and residents have been affected. Cars have been smashed with stones and several have been set alight. It is nothing short of mindless vandalism."

Ms Hargey said there had been other incidents of vandalism over the weekend.

"There is no defending this behaviour at all and it needs to stop now," she said.

"I'm asking all parents to take responsibility for their children and know where they are at all times.

"The community does not want this type of behaviour and it's not representative of the people of this area."

SDLP councillor Tim Attwood tweeted: "Outrageous old credit union building torched in Divis - no place for mindless thugs destroying our community."

Democratic Unionist former minister Paul Givan tweeted: "Senseless acts of vandalism that endanger communities and damage services.

"Thinking of police and fire crews dealing with these incidents."
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2017/0808/895915-belfast-clean-up/
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I think, most likely, Jihadi.

Judy

Sorry this one is NOT Jihadi, this was over the traditional "bonfires" that both sides like to set up and burn as symbols (at different times in the Summer) this is the basic old Catholic Vs. Protestant although really it is Nationalist (to reunite Northern Ireland back with "Southern" Ireland, aka the Republic where I live) Vs. Unionist (want to stay part of the UK).

"Melodi - what is this "internment without trial" policy? "
Back in the day, the British government would round up the "usual suspects" and put them in jail for long periods of time (in some rather notorious prisons) without trial on the rumors that they were IRA members or part of other "dissident" groups.

Many people in the US are too young to remember (or have forgotten) that in the 1970's and 1980's the North of Ireland was considered a militarized war zone; even after we moved here in the mid 1990's when you traveled there you were met with watch towers and armed guards at the border, border checks and the fact that if you had a Republic Registered car it might very well be firebombed if you were staying with friends on a "unionist" housing area.

By the time we moved here the actual physical walls between neighborhoods had mostly been taken down, but the street gangs of young men still "patrolled" the edges; bombings on both sides of the border were not uncommon and they had nothing to do with Islam.

Which is why I frequently say that "anyone that thinks the only group ever to perform religious terrorism and bombings is Jihadi Islamic fanatics has never lived in Ireland." Both sides (Catholic and Protestant) participated and since I came very close myself to being in the middle of the last really big one (Omagh Street Fair) because the group changed their mind and decided to not bomb the Castle Festival at Carrick Fergus as originally planned (where my husband and I were demonstrating textiles and traditional Middle Ages Combat styles) and instead did Omagh a week later.
 

Marthanoir

TB Fanatic
Sorry this one is NOT Jihadi, this was over the traditional "bonfires" that both sides like to set up and burn as symbols (at different times in the Summer) this is the basic old Catholic Vs. Protestant although really it is Nationalist (to reunite Northern Ireland back with "Southern" Ireland, aka the Republic where I live) Vs. Unionist (want to stay part of the UK).

"Melodi - what is this "internment without trial" policy? "
Back in the day, the British government would round up the "usual suspects" and put them in jail for long periods of time (in some rather notorious prisons) without trial on the rumors that they were IRA members or part of other "dissident" groups.

Many people in the US are too young to remember (or have forgotten) that in the 1970's and 1980's the North of Ireland was considered a militarized war zone; even after we moved here in the mid 1990's when you traveled there you were met with watch towers and armed guards at the border, border checks and the fact that if you had a Republic Registered car it might very well be firebombed if you were staying with friends on a "unionist" housing area.

By the time we moved here the actual physical walls between neighborhoods had mostly been taken down, but the street gangs of young men still "patrolled" the edges; bombings on both sides of the border were not uncommon and they had nothing to do with Islam.

Which is why I frequently say that "anyone that thinks the only group ever to perform religious terrorism and bombings is Jihadi Islamic fanatics has never lived in Ireland." Both sides (Catholic and Protestant) participated and since I came very close myself to being in the middle of the last really big one (Omagh Street Fair) because the group changed their mind and decided to not bomb the Castle Festival at Carrick Fergus as originally planned (where my husband and I were demonstrating textiles and traditional Middle Ages Combat styles) and instead did Omagh a week later.

Although technically its not sectarian as not every Catholic is a Republican and not every Republican is a Catholic, Wolf Tone was a protestant, and so was Sam Maguire amongst others,
Many Anglican aristocrats & gentry were involved in the Nationalist cause and the Celtic Revival
 

homecanner1

Veteran Member
Its already hopping mad over Brexit and Loyalist sense of abandonment by Brussels. Now add nonstop tabloid/telly images of royals the next 3 weeks while they crank the media jukebox up over Princess Diana 20th anniv of her death at the end of this month. It will have the Catholics frothing mad. Am surprised its been this calm thru July 12th.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Although technically it's not sectarian as not every Catholic is a Republican and not every Republican is a Catholic, Wolf Tone was a Protestant, and so was Sam Maguire amongst others,
Many Anglican aristocrats & gentry were involved in the Nationalist cause and the Celtic Revival

Thank you I was going to mention this but we had an emergency in the freezer and I had to hit "send" before I could finish and repeat my usual "and these days Unionist and Republican are used because the fault lines while they often fall along religious lines are not all there is to the story.

Although I have to say that while the Republic is full of Protestants, Catholics and others (and both Protestants and Catholics fought for Irish Independence in 1916 - why the flag is Orange and Green) in the North it is still largely (but not totally) a religious divide.

But the religion is really a "cultural" label rather than a really religious one; my first Pagan event in Ireland over 20 years ago in Dublin had a speaker from the North who talked about the "Catholic Pagans and the Protestant Pagans" and someone from the mainland UK said "that's impossible" and I said "it isn't when you are not really referring to religion but to a community identification."

Not too long after, the terms Republican (formerly usually referring to the Catholic community) and Unionist or Ulster Unionist (formerly Protestant) started to be used in the media and were also adopted locally.

It is confusing, but religion DOES play some role; though admittedly more as a community marker than an actual direct and easy to cut line; but then jihadis have a number of different splinter groups too starting with Sunni and Shia that's a whole different ball game and for another thread.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Its already hopping mad over Brexit and Loyalist sense of abandonment by Brussels. Now add nonstop tabloid/telly images of royals the next 3 weeks while they crank the media jukebox up over Princess Diana 20th anniv of her death at the end of this month. It will have the Catholics frothing mad. Am surprised its been this calm thru July 12th.

Everyone I know was gratefully surprised that July 12th went by with no real problems; back in the 90's and early 00's; we used to have people down for about a week at our house (down from the North) because it pretty much shut down as non-emergency employers just shut down because it was too dangerous for their employees to go to work. We use to have the yearly "get out of Belfast" sleep over followed by a "not quite the Fourth of July" barbeque where the American's showed off their traditional dishes and we had a big "everyone" bonfire that usually involved singing silly campfire songs from both sides of the Atlantic.
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
I remember back when travel agents wouldn't book to N. Ireland in their tours. I hope if I ever get over there that I can visit where some of my ancestors originated (Randalstown in Antrim County near Belfast.) They were Ulster Irish.
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Thanks, I kinda followed the Troubles in the 70s, more so in the 80s. I had no idea that practice dated that far back; I guess I should've known.
 
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