POL Amy Coney Barrett Is Not a Safe Pick for the Supreme Court. (Long)

michaelteever

Deceased
I debated with what prefix I should use for this article. I consider it both Politics and Religion. settled on Politics since it includes both aspects of the article. Interesting, thought is worth of a review for opinions.

Since she has been mentioned a few times lately, I found it intriguing for both Pro and Con. Your call.

Personally, I'm leaning more towards the positive myself. Obviously I'm not inclined to side with the author.

YMMV

Michael

For fair use education/research purposes.

The link: Amy Coney Barrett Is Not a Safe Pick for the Supreme Court. | Human Events

The article:

Amy_Coney_Barrett.png


Amy Coney Barrett Is Not a Safe Pick for the Supreme Court.
(By John Zmirak )

Her writings on faith and jurisprudence should worry conservatives.

The left is engaged in full-on panic over control of the U.S. Supreme Court—which Justice Scalia once described as having become a de facto sitting Constitutional Convention, subjecting every law in every state to the views of five lifetime appointees: an oligarchy of lawyers from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale.

As Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s health concerns continue to loom, liberals are trying to spook Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell into swearing off confirmation hearings for any Trump appointee during an election year. At the same time, The New York Times and The New Yorker are trying to drive Brett Kavanaugh off the court with still more unsupported, second- or third-hand allegations. The spectacle is positively Orwellian.

The next Supreme Court appointment, assuming Trump gets one, will be pivotal; we can’t afford for him to waste it by choosing a justice whom he thinks will be “easier to confirm,” despite his or her weaknesses.

Trump should recognize that no conservative appointment will be “easy.” The left has already shown us their playbook. It reads: treat as “literally Hitler” any jurist who might return to an honest reading of the Constitution on Second Amendment rights, abortion, or executive authority on immigration.

President Trump should not take the salacious nature of the smear campaign against Brett Kavanaugh to mean that he must appoint a woman. Why believe that leftists are incapable of crafting an obscene smear of either sex? Put nothing past these people. Nothing.

More importantly, if we let the attacks on Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh become precedent, it would mean that Republicans could never again nominate a man. That’s obviously silly, severely restricting our choices among an already narrow conservative bench.

There will be no easy appointments; Trump should make it count.

Trump’s presumptive choice is Judge Amy Coney Barrett, currently sitting on the Seventh Circuit. But I have profound questions about Barrett’s suitability for the high court, as Barrett’s apparent unwillingness to separate her faith from her legal judgment should worry conservatives; jurists’ first allegiance should be to the Constitution, not the shifting political and doctrinal line at Pope Francis’ Vatican.


Amy_Coney_Barrett_Pope_Francis.png


THE NEXUS OF FAITH AND JURISPRUDENCE

As a convinced and apostolic Catholic, I’m cheered by the fact that Barrett is a pious member of my Church. I am confident that her sentiments are profoundly pro-life, but I find myself troubled by Barrett’s public statements on the nexus of her jurisprudence and her faith.

Specifically, Barrett fails to draw the bright line separating her legal judgment and practice from her faith, as Justices Alito and Thomas do. Like Justice Scalia, these men are firm originalists, who interpret the Constitution in light of the original public meaning of its text—regardless of their personal or religious preferences. Justice Scalia, a devout Catholic and convinced pro-lifer, famously said that if he’d found abortion rights in the Constitution, he’d have ruled to uphold them—and favored an amendment to change it. That’s the proper attitude for a jurist in a constitutional republic, who knows that he’s neither a prelate nor a philosopher king.

Why then should conservatives, even Catholics, be concerned about a justice letting his or her faith influence his or her jurisprudence? The answer is simple: Pope Francis sits on the throne.

Francis has used his position to promote a wide array of leftist political and theological stances that conflict with his predecessors’ teachings. These include capital punishment, which goes back to the Covenant of Noah in scripture, and was on the books of the Vatican City state into the late 1960s. Francis has recently unilaterally declared capital punishment forever “inadmissible,” whatever that means. In fact, Francis has gone further and claimed that life imprisonment is also evil.

Still more urgent is immigration. On this subject, Francis defies the Church’s own Catechism, which clearly states that the common good of receiving countries must be weighed against the desires of newcomers to better their lives, and that immigrants must obey immigration laws, or lose their right to enter. Instead, Francis routinely denounces every effort to enforce any democratically enacted immigration law. His appointees have literally demonized politicians such as Matteo Salvini, comparing him to the “Antichrist” for his stance opposing the mass influx of Muslims into Europe.

Some Catholics have rightly defied Francis, noting that he has no authority to change long-settled teachings, or impose specific politics on Catholics. But too many pious Catholics seem conflicted, and feel obliged to adapt their long-held beliefs to suit the current inhabitant of the Vatican—as if he were some kind of oracle. This “Catholic Stalinism,” if you will, recalls the attitude depicted in Arthur Koestler’s Darkness At Noon: for the good Stalinist, the “voice of history” is the Communist Party in Moscow, and the current Party Line is what they must believe.


Amy_Coney_Barrett_Moses_10_Commandments.png


BARRETT’S HIGHER POWER: CONSTITUTIONAL LAW OR DIVINE LAW?

Is Amy Coney Barrett this kind of Catholic? Or is she a more independently minded, Constitutionally scrupulous Catholic, in the mold of Justice Scalia? We need to ask that question, in light of her own writing. Barrett co-authored a scholarly legal article with John H. Garvey, now the President of the Catholic University of America. They stated their conclusion quite bluntly:

[W]e believe that Catholic judges (if they are faithful to the teaching of their church) are morally precluded from enforcing the death penalty. This means that they can neither themselves sentence criminals to death nor enforce jury recommendations of death.

Catholics differ on this issue for theological reasons, but what matters is what Barrett believes. A full ten years before Pope Francis made clear that he considers all (not most) capital punishment “inadmissible,” Barrett was anticipating the change in Catholic teaching, and binding herself to it. Why? She cites a document of the Second Vatican Council:

Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent of soul.

If Barrett and Garvey were correct about the obligations of Catholic judges, then no Catholic who agrees with them should be appointed to any court, or confirmed by the Senate if appointed. It is the duty of a judge to implement the U.S. Constitution, not the teachings of the Catholic Church—or, worse, the political preferences of a pope who has decided unilaterally to change those teachings.

What answer do Barrett and Garvey offer to the dilemma of a Catholic judge who is unwilling to enforce the clear dictates of the U.S. Constitution on capital punishment? To avoid “formal cooperation with evil,” she must recuse herself from ruling:

The moral impossibility of enforcing capital punishment in the first two or three cases (sentencing, enforcing jury recommendations, affirming) is a sufficient reason for recusal under federal law. (p. 306)

The answer gets more emphatic further down:

[T]he principle at stake in capital sentencing is a moral one, not a factual or simply legal one. And the judge is asked to violate it—not to reason from different legal premises to morally unobjectionable conclusions (like Justice Brandeis did in Whitney). There is no way the judge can do his job and obey his conscience. The judge’s conscience tells him to impose a life sentence; federal law directs him to impose death. Because the judge is unable to give the government the judgment to which it is entitled under the law, § 455(b)(1) directs him to disqualify himself. (p. 334)

It is clear what Judge Barrett believes about the obligations of a Catholic judge when there is a direct conflict between her views of what the Church teaches and the U.S. Constitution dictates: they must recuse themselves.

That’s a scary prospect, if Judge Barrett is to become Justice Barrett.


Amy_Coney_Barrett_abortion_rights.png


FAITH OVER TEXTUALISM

Judicial scholar Mark Tushnet has argued that Barrett could not vote to overturn Roe v. Wade without raising the question of whether she has let her religious opinions unduly color her reading of the Constitution. As he wrote at Vox:

An orthodox Catholic judge’s views about material cooperation with evil might therefore play no role in his or her decision. The difficulty, though, is that someone observing the judge’s action—the reasonable person whose inferences matter when the “appearance of impartiality” standard is applied—can’t tell the difference between a decision to overrule Roe because the decision was not firmly rooted in the relevant purely legal materials, and a decision to do so because any other course would amount to material cooperation with evil, from the judge’s perspective.

Tushnet is right. Given Barrett’s view that one’s Catholic convictions should govern, and prevent a judge from following the letter of the U.S. Constitution on capital punishment, it would be impossible to discern what motivated her decision. If Roe came before a future court, Barrett should probably recuse herself. I don’t rule it out that she might in fact do so. By her own logic, she’d be right. That’s because no one with a view of the law like Barrett’s belongs on any federal court, let alone the Supreme Court.

Assuming Barrett is intellectually consistent, the impact of her undue deference to Church authority would extend to other issues, especially the crucial subject of immigration. In her article, Barrett cites as authoritative not the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is still (for the moment) sane on the subject. (Pope Francis could change it at any time to demand absolute open borders, and Barrett would apparently feel bound by that.)

No, she cites a single papal encyclical by Pope John Paul II, and “clear and forceful denunciations” of capital punishment by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. If those authorities are to bind Catholic jurists, then on immigration their import is clear. Virtually every effort by the Trump administration to enforce U.S. law regulating immigration has been denounced by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which faces financial boycotts from laymen over sex abuse, and derives much of its income from federal non-profit contracts, mostly to serve immigrants. Pope Francis has spoken clearly and forcefully against virtually all immigration restrictions, anywhere. On his visit to the U.S. he specifically condemned then-candidate Trump’s campaign to build a wall on the southern border.

If an immigration case came before the Supreme Court, would a Justice Barrett feel compelled by her Catholic conscience to follow the pope and his bishops? Would she recuse herself, depriving us of a crucial vote on a subject of enormous national importance? Would her scrupulous and idiosyncratic view of the vast deference Catholics owe the pope on political issues, ironically, lead to the ongoing influx of immigrants who overwhelmingly vote for pro-choice candidates?

What if Barrett distinguishes between “life or death” issues such as capital punishment, and what Catholics traditionally called “prudential” issues such as immigration, where laymen are free to differ from bishops and the pope? The problem is that the barrier between such kinds of issues has collapsed under Pope Francis.

As recently as the reign of John Paul II, then-Cardinal Ratzinger listed capital punishment as such a prudential issue. Pope Francis has determined to extend papal sway over much, much more. Further, leading Catholics are pretending that immigration, poverty programs, health care, and nearly every other policy affecting human life, is equally a “life issue.” Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago responded to the exposure of Planned Parenthood’s profiting from the sale of fetal lungs and eyes by equating that crime with the outcomes of conservative policies on the Second Amendment, immigration, and welfare programs:

While commerce in the remains of defenseless children is particularly repulsive, we should be no less appalled by the indifference toward the thousands of people who die daily for lack of decent medical care; who are denied rights by a broken immigration system and by racism; who suffer in hunger, joblessness and want; who pay the price of violence in gun-saturated neighborhoods; or who are executed by the state in the name of justice.

Cupich followed here the doctrinal program of his predecessor, leftist Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, which is called in Catholic circles the “Seamless Garment” of “life issues.” Barrett cited the Seamless Garment favorably, as a source for her rejection of capital punishment. Would she agree with Pope Francis, Cardinal Cupich, and the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops, that immigration is a “life issue” where she is bound to obey the Vatican or recuse herself?

I don’t know the answer. But if President Trump makes the mistake of nominating Judge Barrett for the U.S. Supreme Court, I hope Republican senators are willing to demand answers from her. If she does not renounce the weirdly theocratic version of a Catholic judge’s constitutional obligations that she has offered, she deserves rejection by the Senate.

As a Catholic who has been active in the pro-life movement since 1975, that’s how I’d vote.
 
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Daytonabill0001

Wheat or Tare, which are you?
I read nearly the whole thing and I believe the writer is right. This gal is going to be conflicted against laws calling for the final penalty. That is not an impartial Judge, not if the justice is holding another law higher than our Constitution.

I would imagine that if, she were to be present when God judges the dead and sends those whose name isn't found in the Lamb's Book of Life to the Lake of Fire for eternity (That is the 2nd death), she would upbraid God for sending those whose name wasn't found in the Lamb's Book of Life. Even though He HAS to be righteous in sending those doomed people away with no hope. He is Just.

Amy Coney Barrett is not. She would violate the law and use her always changing religious conviction instead of the unmovable Constitutional law.

Nope, I hope Trump doesn't send her name as his first nomination. In fact he shouldn't send anybody who will hold an ideal higher than the Constitution.

Perhaps none of that matters. If the seditionists and traitors are rounded up and sent to Gitmo, all of those jokers could have justice served to them and there would be nothing the SC could do.
Still, I would rather have a good Protestant in there than a Catholic who would rather follow her church's ideals instead of the Constitution.

We need a strict Constitutionalist rather than one who is religious, simply because the New Testament KJV uses the word "religion" in a bad context 5 out of the 6 times the word is used.
 

Squid

Veteran Member
I debated with what prefix I should use for this article. I consider it both Politics and Religion. settled on Politics since it includes both aspects of the article. Interesting, thought is worth of a review for opinions.

Since she has been mentioned a few times lately, I found it intriguing for both Pro and Con. Your call.

Personally, I'm leaning more towards the positive myself. Obviously I'm not inclined to side with the author.

YMMV

Michael

For fair use education/research purposes.

The link: Amy Coney Barrett Is Not a Safe Pick for the Supreme Court. | Human Events

The article:

Amy_Coney_Barrett.png


Amy Coney Barrett Is Not a Safe Pick for the Supreme Court.
(By John Zmirak )

Her writings on faith and jurisprudence should worry conservatives.

The left is engaged in full-on panic over control of the U.S. Supreme Court—which Justice Scalia once described as having become a de facto sitting Constitutional Convention, subjecting every law in every state to the views of five lifetime appointees: an oligarchy of lawyers from Harvard, Stanford, and Yale.

As Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s health concerns continue to loom, liberals are trying to spook Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell into swearing off confirmation hearings for any Trump appointee during an election year. At the same time, The New York Times and The New Yorker are trying to drive Brett Kavanaugh off the court with still more unsupported, second- or third-hand allegations. The spectacle is positively Orwellian.

The next Supreme Court appointment, assuming Trump gets one, will be pivotal; we can’t afford for him to waste it by choosing a justice whom he thinks will be “easier to confirm,” despite his or her weaknesses.

Trump should recognize that no conservative appointment will be “easy.” The left has already shown us their playbook. It reads: treat as “literally Hitler” any jurist who might return to an honest reading of the Constitution on Second Amendment rights, abortion, or executive authority on immigration.

President Trump should not take the salacious nature of the smear campaign against Brett Kavanaugh to mean that he must appoint a woman. Why believe that leftists are incapable of crafting an obscene smear of either sex? Put nothing past these people. Nothing.

More importantly, if we let the attacks on Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh become precedent, it would mean that Republicans could never again nominate a man. That’s obviously silly, severely restricting our choices among an already narrow conservative bench.

There will be no easy appointments; Trump should make it count.

Trump’s presumptive choice is Judge Amy Coney Barrett, currently sitting on the Seventh Circuit. But I have profound questions about Barrett’s suitability for the high court, as Barrett’s apparent unwillingness to separate her faith from her legal judgment should worry conservatives; jurists’ first allegiance should be to the Constitution, not the shifting political and doctrinal line at Pope Francis’ Vatican.


Amy_Coney_Barrett_Pope_Francis.png


THE NEXUS OF FAITH AND JURISPRUDENCE

As a convinced and apostolic Catholic, I’m cheered by the fact that Barrett is a pious member of my Church. I am confident that her sentiments are profoundly pro-life, but I find myself troubled by Barrett’s public statements on the nexus of her jurisprudence and her faith.

Specifically, Barrett fails to draw the bright line separating her legal judgment and practice from her faith, as Justices Alito and Thomas do. Like Justice Scalia, these men are firm originalists, who interpret the Constitution in light of the original public meaning of its text—regardless of their personal or religious preferences. Justice Scalia, a devout Catholic and convinced pro-lifer, famously said that if he’d found abortion rights in the Constitution, he’d have ruled to uphold them—and favored an amendment to change it. That’s the proper attitude for a jurist in a constitutional republic, who knows that he’s neither a prelate nor a philosopher king.

Why then should conservatives, even Catholics, be concerned about a justice letting his or her faith influence his or her jurisprudence? The answer is simple: Pope Francis sits on the throne.

Francis has used his position to promote a wide array of leftist political and theological stances that conflict with his predecessors’ teachings. These include capital punishment, which goes back to the Covenant of Noah in scripture, and was on the books of the Vatican City state into the late 1960s. Francis has recently unilaterally declared capital punishment forever “inadmissible,” whatever that means. In fact, Francis has gone further and claimed that life imprisonment is also evil.

Still more urgent is immigration. On this subject, Francis defies the Church’s own Catechism, which clearly states that the common good of receiving countries must be weighed against the desires of newcomers to better their lives, and that immigrants must obey immigration laws, or lose their right to enter. Instead, Francis routinely denounces every effort to enforce any democratically enacted immigration law. His appointees have literally demonized politicians such as Matteo Salvini, comparing him to the “Antichrist” for his stance opposing the mass influx of Muslims into Europe.

Some Catholics have rightly defied Francis, noting that he has no authority to change long-settled teachings, or impose specific politics on Catholics. But too many pious Catholics seem conflicted, and feel obliged to adapt their long-held beliefs to suit the current inhabitant of the Vatican—as if he were some kind of oracle. This “Catholic Stalinism,” if you will, recalls the attitude depicted in Arthur Koestler’s Darkness At Noon: for the good Stalinist, the “voice of history” is the Communist Party in Moscow, and the current Party Line is what they must believe.

Amy_Coney_Barrett_Moses_10_Commandments.png


BARRETT’S HIGHER POWER: CONSTITUTIONAL LAW OR DIVINE LAW?

Is Amy Coney Barrett this kind of Catholic? Or is she a more independently minded, Constitutionally scrupulous Catholic, in the mold of Justice Scalia? We need to ask that question, in light of her own writing. Barrett co-authored a scholarly legal article with John H. Garvey, now the President of the Catholic University of America. They stated their conclusion quite bluntly:

[W]e believe that Catholic judges (if they are faithful to the teaching of their church) are morally precluded from enforcing the death penalty. This means that they can neither themselves sentence criminals to death nor enforce jury recommendations of death.

Catholics differ on this issue for theological reasons, but what matters is what Barrett believes. A full ten years before Pope Francis made clear that he considers all (not most) capital punishment “inadmissible,” Barrett was anticipating the change in Catholic teaching, and binding herself to it. Why? She cites a document of the Second Vatican Council:

Bishops, teaching in communion with the Roman Pontiff, are to be respected by all as witnesses to divine and Catholic truth. In matters of faith and morals, the bishops speak in the name of Christ and the faithful are to accept their teaching and adhere to it with a religious assent of soul.

If Barrett and Garvey were correct about the obligations of Catholic judges, then no Catholic who agrees with them should be appointed to any court, or confirmed by the Senate if appointed. It is the duty of a judge to implement the U.S. Constitution, not the teachings of the Catholic Church—or, worse, the political preferences of a pope who has decided unilaterally to change those teachings.

What answer do Barrett and Garvey offer to the dilemma of a Catholic judge who is unwilling to enforce the clear dictates of the U.S. Constitution on capital punishment? To avoid “formal cooperation with evil,” she must recuse herself from ruling:

The moral impossibility of enforcing capital punishment in the first two or three cases (sentencing, enforcing jury recommendations, affirming) is a sufficient reason for recusal under federal law. (p. 306)

The answer gets more emphatic further down:

[T]he principle at stake in capital sentencing is a moral one, not a factual or simply legal one. And the judge is asked to violate it—not to reason from different legal premises to morally unobjectionable conclusions (like Justice Brandeis did in Whitney). There is no way the judge can do his job and obey his conscience. The judge’s conscience tells him to impose a life sentence; federal law directs him to impose death. Because the judge is unable to give the government the judgment to which it is entitled under the law, § 455(b)(1) directs him to disqualify himself. (p. 334)

It is clear what Judge Barrett believes about the obligations of a Catholic judge when there is a direct conflict between her views of what the Church teaches and the U.S. Constitution dictates: they must recuse themselves.

That’s a scary prospect, if Judge Barrett is to become Justice Barrett.

Amy_Coney_Barrett_abortion_rights.png


FAITH OVER TEXTUALISM st judicial scholar Mark Tushnet has argued that Barrett could not vote to overturn Roe v. Wade without raising the question of whether she has let her religious opinions unduly color her reading of the Constitution. As he wrote at Vox:

An orthodox Catholic judge’s views about material cooperation with evil might therefore play no role in his or her decision. The difficulty, though, is that someone observing the judge’s action—the reasonable person whose inferences matter when the “appearance of impartiality” standard is applied—can’t tell the difference between a decision to overrule Roe because the decision was not firmly rooted in the relevant purely legal materials, and a decision to do so because any other course would amount to material cooperation with evil, from the judge’s perspective.

Tushnet is right. Given Barrett’s view that one’s Catholic convictions should govern, and prevent a judge from following the letter of the U.S. Constitution on capital punishment, it would be impossible to discern what motivated her decision. If Roe came before a future court, Barrett should probably recuse herself. I don’t rule it out that she might in fact do so. By her own logic, she’d be right. That’s because no one with a view of the law like Barrett’s belongs on any federal court, let alone the Supreme Court.

Assuming Barrett is intellectually consistent, the impact of her undue deference to Church authority would extend to other issues, especially the crucial subject of immigration. In her article, Barrett cites as authoritative not the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is still (for the moment) sane on the subject. (Pope Francis could change it at any time to demand absolute open borders, and Barrett would apparently feel bound by that.)

No, she cites a single papal encyclical by Pope John Paul II, and “clear and forceful denunciations” of capital punishment by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. If those authorities are to bind Catholic jurists, then on immigration their import is clear. Virtually every effort by the Trump administration to enforce U.S. law regulating immigration has been denounced by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which faces financial boycotts from laymen over sex abuse, and derives much of its income from federal non-profit contracts, mostly to serve immigrants. Pope Francis has spoken clearly and forcefully against virtually all immigration restrictions, anywhere. On his visit to the U.S. he specifically condemned then-candidate Trump’s campaign to build a wall on the southern border.

If an immigration case came before the Supreme Court, would a Justice Barrett feel compelled by her Catholic conscience to follow the pope and his bishops? Would she recuse herself, depriving us of a crucial vote on a subject of enormous national importance? Would her scrupulous and idiosyncratic view of the vast deference Catholics owe the pope on political issues, ironically, lead to the ongoing influx of immigrants who overwhelmingly vote for pro-choice candidates?

What if Barrett distinguishes between “life or death” issues such as capital punishment, and what Catholics traditionally called “prudential” issues such as immigration, where laymen are free to differ from bishops and the pope? The problem is that the barrier between such kinds of issues has collapsed under Pope Francis.

As recently as the reign of John Paul II, then-Cardinal Ratzinger listed capital punishment as such a prudential issue. Pope Francis has determined to extend papal sway over much, much more. Further, leading Catholics are pretending that immigration, poverty programs, health care, and nearly every other policy affecting human life, is equally a “life issue.” Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago responded to the exposure of Planned Parenthood’s profiting from the sale of fetal lungs and eyes by equating that crime with the outcomes of conservative policies on the Second Amendment, immigration, and welfare programs:

While commerce in the remains of defenseless children is particularly repulsive, we should be no less appalled by the indifference toward the thousands of people who die daily for lack of decent medical care; who are denied rights by a broken immigration system and by racism; who suffer in hunger, joblessness and want; who pay the price of violence in gun-saturated neighborhoods; or who are executed by the state in the name of justice.

Cupich followed here the doctrinal program of his predecessor, leftist Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, which is called in Catholic circles the “Seamless Garment” of “life issues.” Barrett cited the Seamless Garment favorably, as a source for her rejection of capital punishment. Would she agree with Pope Francis, Cardinal Cupich, and the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops, that immigration is a “life issue” where she is bound to obey the Vatican or recuse herself?

I don’t know the answer. But if President Trump makes the mistake of nominating Judge Barrett for the U.S. Supreme Court, I hope Republican senators are willing to demand answers from her. If she does not renounce the weirdly theocratic version of a Catholic judge’s constitutional obligations that she has offered, she deserves rejection by the Senate.

As a Catholic who has been active in the pro-life movement since 1975, that’s how I’d vote.
This is the silliest, anti-Christian analysis and dreadfully long-winded.

Ohhhh how scary someone of faith Must Denounce faith (only if Christian) before entering the public arena????

Literally WT(heck) is wrong with you.

Western society is built in Judeo-Christian ethics. It is only progressive activists and the media that declare Christianity as some sort of evil that must be wiped out.

I would ask any so-called media analyst or intellectual are you also absolutely demanding All Americans that worship Islam renounce their faith Before taking part in any US civic duty??? Until you do shut-up John, you moron!
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
I would normally agree with ya, Doz, but this ain't REALLY window dressing since this is very much a part OF the War we are going to have to fight soon.
And we'll likely know by mid-week whether or not it's sooner or later. Most of the betting I'm seeing is on sooner rather than later.

========================================================================

To a point, Squid I can see your argument, and agree with it, also to a point.
Heck, I thought this was handled fully and effectively while JFK was running.

I guess I misremembered.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
This is the silliest, anti-Christian analysis and dreadfully long-winded.

Ohhhh how scary someone of faith Must Denounce faith (only if Christian) before entering the public arena????

Literally WT(heck) is wrong with you.

Western society is built in Judeo-Christian ethics. It is only progressive activists and the media that declare Christianity as some sort of evil that must be wiped out.

I would ask any so-called media analyst or intellectual are you also absolutely demanding All Americans that worship Islam renounce their faith Before taking part in any US civic duty??? Until you do shut-up John, you moron!
Agreed. Fear-mongering at its most “Kennedyesque”
 

Daytonabill0001

Wheat or Tare, which are you?
See how touchy people are about this? All I can say is from whence did the Inquisition come from and what religion did the rounding up of the Salem witches?

This I will say, American Catholics are morally different than the Mexican Catholics. Constitutional Catholics are rarer than Hen's Teeth.

And that's all I'm going to say about that...
 

fish hook

Deceased
We are not selecting someone to sort doctrine.We are trying to select someone to sort law.If she,or anyone else can't tell the difference,we have a problem.The Lord himself said "no man can serve two masters".A supreme court justice should serve the law.If she can't set aside the teaching of a communist who is playing pope i don't think she needs to be there.The constitution was meant to be a permanent protector of the rights of citizens,we have entirely to many entities trying to destroy it now.Just because she is a good person would not make the destruction any less.That is what is wrong now,judges deciding on the basis of their personal feelings.
 

Daytonabill0001

Wheat or Tare, which are you?
I'm sorry, I left some ambiguity with my past post. Hardly anyone could be faulted for disagreeing with me. That's my fault.

Let me explain...

During the Inquisition, the Catholic hierarchy were using their power of fear over the population who truly believed that their priests held the power to separate them from God and Heaven. They used these as weapons to destroy the Protestants and were very skillful with the use of the various forms of extracted "confession tools". They used Religion to eliminate their competition, to grow their power over their parishioners and for financial gain. All in the name of Religion.

The same can be said about the Puritans. Some historians view the Puritans ministers as abusing their power politically and socially in order to gain more church attendance and funds.

This why I mentioned that the KJV Bible uses the word "religion" 6 times and out of those 6 times, all but 1 is used in a bad way.

I have seen ministers "practice" religion and I detest it. There's no Godly virtue or Power in it.

As I mentioned in another post, even though God's Plan of Redemption included Jesus hanging on that cross for us, religion was the vehicle that put Him up there for our sins.
 

Daytonabill0001

Wheat or Tare, which are you?
Western society is built in Judeo-Christian ethics. It is only progressive activists and the media that declare Christianity as some sort of evil that must be wiped out.

I would ask any so-called media analyst or intellectual are you also absolutely demanding All Americans that worship Islam renounce their faith Before taking part in any US civic duty??? Until you do shut-up John, you moron!
I am... Those guys are moderates who will hold you down while their jihadist cousins dismember you... Actually, I would disqualify those who are Mohammedan and make them to leave our country. There's no truth in them.
 
See how touchy people are about this? All I can say is from whence did the Inquisition come from and what religion did the rounding up of the Salem witches?

This I will say, American Catholics are morally different than the Mexican Catholics. Constitutional Catholics are rarer than Hen's Teeth.

And that's all I'm going to say about that...
Hmmmm - so where does all of this lead with regards to future rulings by (Jesuit educated Catholic) Justice Brett Kavanaugh?

Funny, don't recall reading any such screeds during his tumultuous confirmation process.


intothegoodnight
 
I'm sorry, I left some ambiguity with my past post. Hardly anyone could be faulted for disagreeing with me. That's my fault.

Let me explain...

During the Inquisition, the Catholic hierarchy were using their power of fear over the population who truly believed that their priests held the power to separate them from God and Heaven. They used these as weapons to destroy the Protestants and were very skillful with the use of the various forms of extracted "confession tools". They used Religion to eliminate their competition, to grow their power over their parishioners and for financial gain. All in the name of Religion.

The same can be said about the Puritans. Some historians view the Puritans ministers as abusing their power politically and socially in order to gain more church attendance and funds.

This why I mentioned that the KJV Bible uses the word "religion" 6 times and out of those 6 times, all but 1 is used in a bad way.

I have seen ministers "practice" religion and I detest it. There's no Godly virtue or Power in it.

As I mentioned in another post, even though God's Plan of Redemption included Jesus hanging on that cross for us, religion was the vehicle that put Him up there for our sins.
In your above posting - if fear is being used as a primary motivational tool, is it always holy and good? Can the use of fear as a tool, wielded by MAN, ever be holy and good?

Employing fear as a "motivational stick" is not exclusive to Catholics - history is replete with endless examples - and is STILL a primary "go-to" tool of the ruling classes, worldwide.


intothegoodnight
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
From Schlichter’s column this morning:

In a paradigm of norms and rules, Amy Coney Barrett or Barbara Lagoa would sail through a quick confirmation process (they both just passed one a couple years ago to get on the Circuit Court of Appeals). Instead, we’ll be subjected to a long line of lies about how the nominee is a religious nut and a secret Nazi and loves Q and how she groped a bunch of timid liberal males who were totally shattered by her vicious assaults in 1981 near the water fountain at George Washington Junior High.
 

Dennis Olson

Chief Curmudgeon
_______________
The Spanish Inquisition was from the late 1400’s through the early 1800’s. The Puritans were in the 1600’s.

Daytonabill, evidently you’re living 2-400 years in the past. Might wanna drag yourself out of the witch-trial era into the 21st century. Or not. I don’t know what motivates you to live in the Wayback machine.
 
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Melodi

Disaster Cat
I am not at all concerned with her being a practicing Catholic, many people are.

I am, however, trying to find more information on the tiny "sub-group" she belongs to that is not only charismatic (I could care less) but encourages (or even demands) members to have a "head" men or "handmaid now called women leaders" that they confess to, get advice for major life decisions from (OK so far, creepy for adults but OK) and may be required to share financial and other information with - and the "heads/leaders" MAY share such information with group leaders!

The difference between this and regular Catholic confession (at least from the first news of it) is that a Catholic Priest or even most Protest ministers, rabbis, and even some Imams and Neo-Pagan/Heathen clergy have to learn about and sign on to certain legal restrictions and requirements in the MOST States before they can become legal clergy.

US States (and European countries) vary on this, but pretty universal are laws that require the Priest or other Clergy to know when legally they HAVE to report something to the authorities (The Vatican doesn't always support this by the way but on paper, it is the law in many states.

For example, all licensed clergy in California (and most States) are under the obligation of law to report suspected child abuse, especially physical or sexual abuse - now some Catholic Priests have said they will go to jail rather than "break the seal of the confessional" but it is still the law in most States and anyone who is licensed clergy is expected to know their State rules.

Anyway, my concern for this lady isn't the old bugbears that even I can remember as a young child hearing about Kennedy, how "the Pope" would "rule" the United States by proxy and all sorts of other junk.

No, the problem comes in if she feels pressured to "confess" any thoughts, conflicts, financial issues in her family, decisions she has to make (personally or in difficult judicial decisions) to someone who not only may or may not have the legal certification to be clergy - but who in fact may be REQUIRED as part of their group practice to TELL THIS STUFF to a "group/church leader").

Will this "women leader" and her person in authority all have security clearances? Will, they want access to the details of court cases under review, would they have potential blackmail information on the justice, her family, or other justices/American leaders even innocently provided in such confessions?

Lots of questions there, and if she's nominated they need to be answered.


The reports I'm getting are that both her parents, all her siblings are all part of this same group which isn't large, only about 3,000 people.

However, given how horrible and poisonous the political atmosphere is right now, this could all be mostly made up or a cherry-picking of details to make a prayer/self-help group look evil and dangerous. The truth may be somewhere in the middle but I'll only really worry about if she is nominated, then a deep dive is warranted.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
I find the concerns silly to say the least. Is there a risk? Sure there always is a risk with any nomination.

Yet we are 110% positive that even it she is not 100% solid on the conservative side, she will be far far better than Ginsburg who we were / are 110% positive would always vote against us.

Take the win and be happy about it.
 

willowlady

Veteran Member
There are no "safe picks" for scotus, as we have clearly seen in the Covid rulings. I have no fear of her decisions based on her religion. Our entire justice system is built on Judeo-Christian morals and ethics. I do have fear of her being another Roberts or Kavenaugh -- speaking a conservative basis for her rulings and then going along with the equal-outcome crew. If her religion gives her a spine, good. My best hope on the abortion issue is to return it to a states rights situation, but I don't see that happening.
 

Luddite

Veteran Member
Normal confirmation hearings bore me with the tangential questions. The long dong silver/Anita Hill & the whole Cavanaugh debacle excluded.
Is it acceptable to terminate an organism that has been proven to rape/maim/kill? Yes or No?

Is it acceptable to terminate an organism whose sole guilt is conception? Yes or No?
All other questions should follow these...
JMHO
ETA: Right to privacy questions are asinine knowing what we know now.
 

pinkelsteinsmom

Veteran Member
Whomever he puts forth will turn out to be a disappointment because the GOPe picks his choices. I for one do not want another jew or catholic on that court. How about a christian patriot for a change?
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
This from a very-long UK daily mail article that I won't post (but will post a link) and I just can't tell if it is part of an "agenda" or if the author is really on to something concerning - again I could care less about her being a Catholic Charismatic, people have a right to their faith (or lack of it) but I am concerned if the reports of having a "women leader" she "confesses to" and who may "report information to Church/Group leaders."

If that isn't accurate than her faith, her choices, her decisions.

from the article:
Barrett is a devout Catholic and mother of seven from Indiana, who has adopted two kids from Haiti and has a biological child with special needs.

She is a member of a Christian group name People of Praise, where members are assigned a 'handmaiden', a personal adviser with whom they are encouraged to confess personal sins, financial information and other sensitive disclosures.


 

DryCreek

Veteran Member
Better the known than the known. The said rather than that left unsaid.
Amy Barret does not hide her religious beliefs, so you know where she stands on many matters as a human. As a jurist? I cannot say.

What happens when you unknowingly end up with a very quiet closet athiest in the Supreme Court?
 
I am not at all concerned with her being a practicing Catholic, many people are.

I am, however, trying to find more information on the tiny "sub-group" she belongs to that is not only charismatic (I could care less) but encourages (or even demands) members to have a "head" men or "handmaid now called women leaders" that they confess to, get advice for major life decisions from (OK so far, creepy for adults but OK) and may be required to share financial and other information with - and the "heads/leaders" MAY share such information with group leaders!

The difference between this and regular Catholic confession (at least from the first news of it) is that a Catholic Priest or even most Protest ministers, rabbis, and even some Imams and Neo-Pagan/Heathen clergy have to learn about and sign on to certain legal restrictions and requirements in the MOST States before they can become legal clergy.

US States (and European countries) vary on this, but pretty universal are laws that require the Priest or other Clergy to know when legally they HAVE to report something to the authorities (The Vatican doesn't always support this by the way but on paper, it is the law in many states.

For example, all licensed clergy in California (and most States) are under the obligation of law to report suspected child abuse, especially physical or sexual abuse - now some Catholic Priests have said they will go to jail rather than "break the seal of the confessional" but it is still the law in most States and anyone who is licensed clergy is expected to know their State rules.

Anyway, my concern for this lady isn't the old bugbears that even I can remember as a young child hearing about Kennedy, how "the Pope" would "rule" the United States by proxy and all sorts of other junk.

No, the problem comes in if she feels pressured to "confess" any thoughts, conflicts, financial issues in her family, decisions she has to make (personally or in difficult judicial decisions) to someone who not only may or may not have the legal certification to be clergy - but who in fact may be REQUIRED as part of their group practice to TELL THIS STUFF to a "group/church leader").

Will this "women leader" and her person in authority all have security clearances? Will, they want access to the details of court cases under review, would they have potential blackmail information on the justice, her family, or other justices/American leaders even innocently provided in such confessions?

Lots of questions there, and if she's nominated they need to be answered.

The reports I'm getting are that both her parents, all her siblings are all part of this same group which isn't large, only about 3,000 people.

However, given how horrible and poisonous the political atmosphere is right now, this could all be mostly made up or a cherry-picking of details to make a prayer/self-help group look evil and dangerous. The truth may be somewhere in the middle but I'll only really worry about if she is nominated, then a deep dive is warranted.
As a rule, it would be prudent to consider that MOST (ALL?) politicos/jurists/corporate CxO folks will rarely obtain their high-level positions WITHOUT FIRST being compromised, in some significant way.

A high-level player may later prove to be a straight-shooter, unencumbered in their actions/decisions, either by blackmail or other methods/means of compromise, such as **magical** money making successes/bribes during their high-level tenure - but, such "clean" high-level folks are usually few and far between.

Bear in mind that physical threats of violence against high-level players and/or their families, are a distinct exception - may be the only manipulative method available to the "handlers" when high-level folks are otherwise "clean." Likely, such methods are employed more often than J6P realizes - Clinton-era Arkanside comes to mind, as a clear example of such being employed as an intimidation tactic, and a "reminder" to all other high-level folks that the handlers can, and will, take out whoever they wish, WHENEVER they wish. Pure fear tactics, skillfully employed as a successful motivational tool to further the puppeteer's hidden agendas. An operative tool of the "hidden hand," working BEHIND the carefully curated and maintained, publicly "visible," facade.

"Get off of the porch, if you cannot run with the big dogs," comes to mind, here. Merit/talent/abilities are only part of the consideration in an advancing high-level career path - they must also **somehow** be "steerable," too.


intothegoodnight
 
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Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
This appeals court case was decided by a panel of 3 judges, one of whom was Amy C. Barrett.

(fair use applies)

Appeals court: Pritzker OK to limit - or not limit - religious, political gatherings to combat COVID-19
By Jonathan Bilyk | Sep 5, 2020

A federal appeals panel says Gov. JB Pritzker is free to limit Republican political gatherings in the name of fighting COVID-19, but also allowed under the law to give more leeway to religious gatherings and Black Lives Matter protests, if he chooses.

On Sept. 3, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the arguments presented by the Illinois Republican Party and other plaintiffs that Pritzker had not improperly discriminated against them and other political organizations by refusing to allow them to gather in groups of more than 50 people while Illinois remains in a state of emergency because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

The ruling was authored by Seventh Circuit Judge Diane P. Wood. Circuit judges Amy C. Barrett and Amy J. St. Eve concurred.

The Republicans sued earlier this spring, challenging the authority of Pritzker to limit their rallies and fundraising events that exceeded a 50-person limit he imposed by executive order. The limits on assembly sizes was one of the most prominent such orders Pritzker has issued since March, relying on his authority under state law to combat the spread of pandemic diseases, such as COVID-19.

Pritzker has said such gathering size limits are needed to make it harder for the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 to spread.

In their lawsuit, the Republicans asserted Pritzker has not equally applied the limits. They noted the governor has carved out special exceptions for some religious assemblies.

And, they said, Pritzker himself has violated the order by participating in an anti-racism march in Chicago, during which thousands of people gathered in the streets. They said the governor has also endorsed more of such gatherings, and has done nothing to limit the size of the protests, marches and rallies in the name of the Black Lives Matter movements.

They said this has created a situation in which the governor has indicated a will to enforce the anti-COVID measures based on the content of the speech being delivered by those assembling, and has tilted that bias in favor of those with whom he aligns politically.

When the case landed in Chicago federal court, U.S. District Judge Sara Ellis sided with the governor.

And on appeal, the Seventh Circuit judges also backed Pritzker’s position, that he has the authority to essentially take any measures he deems necessary to combat COVID-19 and save lives.

In the ruling, the judges reaffirmed that religious organizations and assemblies enjoy special privileged status under the First Amendment, even greater than the deference and protections typically afforded to political speech under the Constitution.

While religious practice often involves speech that should be protected by the First Amendment, the judges said the First Amendment goes farther, protecting the free exercise of religion itself.

They said comparing ordinary speech, and even political speech, to religious exercise, does not yield an “apples to apples” comparison.

“What we see instead is ‘speech’ being compared to ‘speech plus,’ where the ‘plus’ is the protection that the First Amendment guarantees to religious exercise,” Judge Wood wrote.’

However, they noted not all activities hosted by a church – such as a picnic or “battle of the bands” - would necessarily be protected, simply because they are hosted by a church.

And the judges emphasized the governor also still has the authority under the Constitution and the law to impose public health restrictions on religious practices. They pointed to a decision the Seventh Circuit delivered earlier this year, which stated the court believes Pritzker and other governors have no obligation to exempt religious gatherings from COVID-19 prevention measures imposed on businesses and other organizations and assemblies.

However, they said the governor was also free to give religious gatherings greater leeway, compared to other otherwise First Amendment-protected activities, because of the special “speech-plus” status the First Amendment grants to religious exercise and practice.

The law, the judges said, “does not compel the Governor to treat all gatherings alike, whether they be of Catholics, Lutherans, Orthodox Jews, Republicans, Democrats, University of Illinois alumni, Chicago Bears fans, or others,” Judge Wood wrote. “Free exercise of religion enjoys express constitutional protection, and the Governor was entitled to carve out some room for religion, even while he declined to do so for other activities.”

The judges also rejected the attempt to compare the Republican events to Black Lives Matter protests.

They said the governor’s endorsement of the protests and marches, nor his participation in them, is enough to “change the law” or to “change the text of the order.” The judges said the Republicans did not present enough proof that Pritzker and the state government actively allowed the Black Lives Matter protests favored by left-wing Democrats like Pritzker, while shutting down equivalent demonstrations from the other side of the political spectrum.

“Underenforcement claims are hard to win…,” the judges noted. “Although we do not rule out the possibility that someone might be able to prove this type of favoritism in the enforcement of an otherwise valid response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the record in this case falls short.”

The judges said Pritzker, in his role as chief executive of Illinois, has wiggle room within the law to enforce and manage his gathering limits rules as he has done to this point.

“The entire premise of the Republicans’ suit is that if the exemption from the 50‐ person cap on gatherings for free‐exercise activities were found to be unconstitutional … they would then be free to gather in whatever numbers they wished,” the judges wrote. “But when disparate treatment of two groups occurs, the state is free to erase that discrepancy in any way that it wishes.

“In other words, the state is free to ‘equalize up’ or to ‘equalize down.’”

The Republicans have been represented in the case by attorneys with the Liberty Justice Center, of Chicago.

Pritzker has been represented by the Illinois Attorney General’s Office.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
As if that decision based on allowing some gatherings but not Republican ones wasn't enough to give one pause on her nomination, if you read the entire decision, which you can find here:


you will find these paragraphs on pages 6 and 7 (if you don't want to open the pdf, sign in to TB and you will see these images full sized)

pg 6 httpss3.amazonaws.comjnswirejns-mediaf6e611467564il_gop_v_pritzker_7thcirc.pdf.JPGpg 7.JPG


The reason I am calling this to attention in this thread because if you have/had any question on how Judge Barret would vote should she be sitting on the Supreme Court when the legality of a mandatory vaccine during a/any pandemic is raised before the court - this seems like the answer. She'll vote to enforce it. As such, I vote NO on Judge Amy Barrett and I hope Trump does too.

HD
 
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