CRISIS America's Birthrate unsustainable.

Troke

On TB every waking moment

Don’t underestimate the sociopolitical consequences of declining fertility.
Americans are having fewer babies than ever, or at least than since the government began tracking the general fertility rate in 1909. The total fertility rate ticked down to 1.7 in 2019, meaning that the average number of babies an American woman would have over her lifetime is well below replacement level.

The Wall Street Journal reports
:Birthrates fell or held steady for women of all ages except those in their early 40s. Teenagers saw the sharpest drop, with a 5 percent decline in their birthrate. Since peaking in 1991, the teen birthrate has fallen 73 percent.

Does that trouble you? It troubles me.

Some people will look at the forthcoming population decline and give a satisfied smile. Perhaps they believe that more humanity will be too great a Malthusian burden on the environment itself, with the annoying human demands for energy, food, and leisure. Or perhaps they see a wave of automation coming down the road, and believe that the already growing portion of non-working men could, in the absence of a declining birthrate, balloon to a point that a decent society — a decent life — becomes politically unsustainable.

I think the problems run almost all in the other direction.

First, there is literal atomization. Lower fertility very quickly withers the family tree, as more people are raised with fewer or no siblings, fewer or no cousins, fewer or no aunts and uncles. That is, more people in the future will grow up with shriveled kin networks, fewer relations with people who are obliged to socialize and network with each other. I think this is a disaster for many people trying to develop a sense of comfort and confidence in the world. And the family itself is a school and support for the kinds of independent civic associations that give a society its free character. The shriveling of nuclear and extended families means the diminishment of a powerful bulwark against the forces of social conformism, whether those come by mass media or direct political tutelage.

Next, there is the broader political orientation of low-fertility societies. They tend to lack confidence in the future, in part because there is a general consciousness that nobody is investing in it. They also tend toward suspicion and paranoia. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, low fertility Prussian-German Lutherans developed fears of higher fertility Poles and Jews with rather disastrous consequences. But it doesn’t have to be as dramatic as that. Christopher Caldwell has written that in a high-fertility society, immigration is an influx of reinforcements; in a low-fertility society, natives receive immigrants as replacements. Yet a low-fertility society isn’t great for immigrants either, as their fertility rates are likely to converge to that of the broader society, causing their own family trees to wither.

The former Irish Times journalist John Waters recently called attention to The Vanishing Irish, a collection of essays from the 1950s about the demographic withering of Ireland. At the time, Ireland had a total fertility rate of 3.4: twice that of the U.S. today. One contribution, by John D. Sheridan, theorized that an internalized memory of the Famine haunted the people. “Without being conscious of it,” he wrote, “many Irish people are afraid to marry and have children without an assurance of material prosperity which more buoyant peoples do not require.”

Sheridan might have been getting at something in the Irish psyche of his time. But the phenomenon he details is not unique to Ireland. Americans are no longer a “buoyant people,” in this view. They, too, have adopted the capstone vision of marriage, looking for assurances of material prosperity ahead of the match and reducing the risk of testing the “for poorer” portion of their vows.

The worry, of course, is that almost no society climbs out of the population tailspin. Those withering family trees make recovery more difficult. Fewer siblings and aunts and uncles means less support for raising children. Delayed childbirth, that spike in fertility over 40, results in grandparents who can contribute less to the raising of their grandchildren, or who themselves require attention that might otherwise go to the forthcoming generation.

Conservatism is an attempt to make this world more like a home, where we have a place and role, where nothing and nobody is merely useful or merely familiar. Our respect for our social and religious inheritance is in some way determined by the prospect of passing it on. But if the chain is destined to break, all the bonds within it seem less valuable. To lose the future is to lose our past with it.

I do not know if there is any way out of the fertility decline through policy, though I don’t discount that policy can help. All I know is that the present course is, by definition, unsustainable.

MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY is a senior writer at National Review Online. @michaelbd

One of my sons married a woman whose parents were only children. Consequently she had no aunts, uncles or cousins. My children found that unbelievable. As one commented; Who do you visit when you go on vacation?

Her children now have 15 aunts and uncles and 23 cousins.
 

Practical

Veteran Member
I would have absolutely loved to have more children, but it gets sort of pricey when you are paying for your own and the children of those who cannot pay for them themselves. Did you know that when you go to a hospital to have a baby they give you a bill at the end of it? Who knew!
 

Hermantribe

Veteran Member
I would have absolutely loved to have more children, but it gets sort of pricey when you are paying for your own and the children of those who cannot pay for them themselves. Did you know that when you go to a hospital to have a baby they give you a bill at the end of it? Who knew!
Old saying: Every child comes with his own sandwich. We never went hungry, but we had 3-4 grandparents nearby who were always generous with time, treats and Costco boxes of Eggo waffles :-) I'm not saying what we did as believing Catholics was right for anyone else, but I'm immensely enjoying grandchildren while all 3 of my brothers have 2 marriages and zero kids between them.
 

AlaskaSue

North to the Future
I’ve seen it in my lifetime. My dad grew up on an Oklahoma farm with 12 siblings. Went thru the Depression and didn’t even know it except no one had shoes and there were always men begging for the soup Grandma kept on the stove.

He had 6 kids and we grew up with dozens of cousins and all those aunts and uncles and grandparents, even great-uncles/aunts (though to be honest, none of them really interacted with any of us kids, except my dad. But they were there.). But we kids only had an average of 2 children (everyone was divorced but me and I lost my spouse young to suicide).

My kids provided 4 grandchildren - my nieces and nephews (14 in all) only 4 more. And no one is in touch with any cousins, aunts or uncles, sadly. Have watched it happen and it does not bode well.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Will these people please make up their figgen minds. First they're screaming about too many people on this planet. Now they are screaming about not enough people on this planet. Then there's the groups that want to eliminate 4/5's of the people on the planet and don't forget those idiots that just want to import or export all the dregs of the third world across this planet.

So which is it to be?
 

Squid

Veteran Member
They think there are too many people but the only societies that can waste time on such trivial theories are advanced western societies.

Meanwhile the enemies of Judeo Christian societies have no issues pumping out as many offspring as possible.

And now liberal elitist western governments are funding the internal armies of their destruction and eventual enslavement. By the time the people have enough and revolt against these self destructive policies it will be too late.

China doesn’t have to invade Japan, they need only wait 10 years and Japan will not have enough young men to defend themselves.

Unfortunately even the country probably most actively working to destroy Europe and the most resolve to stand up to the muslimization of Europe, Russia has their own population problem.

Given a choice I would prefer active policy to freely allow practicing Christians and Jews from Europe and Scandinavia a free pass on immigration to the US, and an absolute limit on immigration from hostile regions.
 

ambereyes

Veteran Member
Had my two but my family is large. Three older brothers with 9 kids between them and one on the way. And yeah, it's damn pricey, one of the kids was premature. Three months in the hospital but she's growing well now and no significant problems.
 

Bax333

Contributing Member
The goal is the genocide of the Caucasian race and the end of Christianity.

We are living in the End Times. America, the greatest Christian nation in the history of the word, is the only thing standing in the way of Satan and his New World Order. They must take us down in order to bring about the one world currency, government and religion. They know that God has made Americans different than the rest of the world. Many of us will not go along with the program and they know we will die fighting for him.

When we were a Caucasian Christian nation following him he blessed us unlike any country in the history of the world. We have been flooded with people of every race and religion in order to divide and conquer us. Satan has been so successful that he has even pitted our men and women against each other. Our government and corporations are run by his minions. Even our churches are apostate and led by the blind who are leading the blind.

Evil is running the table on us with very little opposition. They are waging war on us. We must fight back with everything we have. I do not ask for God to be on our side. I pray he will allow us to be on his.
 

Bps1691

Veteran Member
Birth rate per 1,000 woman in the United States in 2018, by ethnic group of mother:
1590447853845.png


National Picture

  • In 2014, one in five births (791,000) in the United States was to an immigrant mother (legal or illegal). Our best estimate is that legal immigrants accounted for 12.4 percent (494,000) of all births, and illegal immigrants accounted for 7.5 percent (297,000).
  • The 297,000 births per year to illegal immigrants is larger than the total number of births in any state other than California and Texas. It is also larger than the total number of births in 16 states plus the District of Columbia, combined.
  • The estimated 28,000 births to illegal immigrants in just the Los Angeles metro area is larger than the total number of births in 14 states and the District of Columbia.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
You are off of the new curve. There is reason to believe the new gen has little interest in having kids. Too much bother.

It isn't that. It's that kids are extremely expensive to raise. And the future is so iffy.

Those women pushing out all the kiddies overseas don't really have much of a choice. They usually have domineering husbands, and no access to birth control. Mostly muzzies on that one.
 

Blacknarwhal

Let's Go Brandon!
It isn't that. It's that kids are extremely expensive to raise. And the future is so iffy.

Those women pushing out all the kiddies overseas don't really have much of a choice. They usually have domineering husbands, and no access to birth control. Mostly muzzies on that one.

Ain't that the truth?

It's Clevon vs. Trevor and Carol all over again.

2:53 Trevor and Carol vs. Clevon

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZ0ZUy7P3E
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Our experience is different from many (6 children). In our Catholic neighborhood growing up there were 76 children on our block (both sides of the street---there were 7 of us). There were decades in which there were comparatively very few children born here, but it's changing, as we have a number of large families in our church.
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
With all the talk of TPTB wanting to depopulate the planet back to a population of 1 billion from the 7 billion plus they say we have.

Then we have people in the government and corporations panicking because all the models they are using is based on an ever increasing population and they can't get it out of their heads to drop it and start working on new models that take in decreasing numbers over the next 20 or 40 years.

Japan is all worked up over this same problem thats been going on for the last 20 or so years and it's the same talk of decreasing population and not being able to support the governments social care system they have in place as it's based on an ever increasing population to pay for it.
 

mikeabn

Finally not a lurker!
Our experience is different from many (6 children). In our Catholic neighborhood growing up there were 76 children on our block (both sides of the street---there were 7 of us). There were decades in which there were comparatively very few children born here, but it's changing, as we have a number of large families in our church.
Good! Maybe there is some hope for the future!
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
Too many useless eaters, not enough producers. Thus they bitch.

The way I see it, they are throwing it in our face, just presented in a way that may sound like they are "on our side." TPTB have a way of doing that, putting a "slant" on things, to serve their purpose.
 

nomifyle

TB Fanatic
My Dad was an only child, his mother's two sisters, one had no children and the other had two, Of the one who had two her oldest daughter had one child and that child had one and that child had one. And so on, not many on that side of the family and my dad's father, well we don't know anyone one on his side of the family. My mother and her three sisters had 10 between them. I have two boys ( they produced 5 all together) My brother has one daughter who probably won't have children. My mother's dad was the youngest of 11. At one time my mother said she had over 100 first cousins. They are all gone and I know nothing about any of their children or grand children any more.

Although I do live in a community that I'm related to some extent to many people around here, at best we just nod and say high at funerals. A cousin just reminded me that we are the older generation now (I'm 73). My children and grand children will never know anyone around here and are not interested, they are wrapped up in their wives families. They all seem to be nice people at least.

Judy
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
You are off of the new curve. There is reason to believe the new gen has little interest in having kids. Too much bother.
I watch my youngest daughter with her three kids. In our day, kids came home from school (off the bus) and Ma said get out of the house until supper time. So they would go out and with the neighborhood kids , scratch up a soft ball game on the neighborhood vacant lot until somebody's mother called.

Today, even though the school bus stops two houses down, an adult has to be present before my grandson can get off. There is a children's playground on the block next from my daughter's. No way would a kid of any age go down there without an adult present.

At considerable cost and effort, my daughter and hubby moved their family into what was thought to be one of the best school districts in those parts. Grandson starts 1st grade and he is bored, bored, bored. Parent-teacher conference. What to do? Next year, skip 2nd grade, go into 3rd, that should challenge him. He is now in parochial school and getting along well according to all reports. Again at considerable cost. .

Turns out the public school district was considered best because all the others are worse.

Having children eats up gobs of time, energy & money not expended in my day. And the new generation has noticed.
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
My Dad is one of 3. Those 3 all married and had a total of 7 kids. Of those kids 3 got married and had a total of seven kids. The other 4 are now in their thirties and aren't interested in kids. My mother is one of 7. Those 7 all got married and had 15 kids. Of those 15, 9 got married and had 19 kids. So my mothers side is doing better than my fathers. I think part of it is that my unmarried cousins are too busy enjoying life with no strings.
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
I would have absolutely loved to have more children, but it gets sort of pricey when you are paying for your own and the children of those who cannot pay for them themselves. Did you know that when you go to a hospital to have a baby they give you a bill at the end of it? Who knew!
The amish are quite unaware of the debilitating economic consequences of having children. They are apparently ”breeding like rabbits” and always have. they have been moving to Maine for the last several decades in search of cheaper agricultural land and continue to have very large families. one of the nice things I like about their traditions is that the children grow up understanding that their role as children include doing chores-lots of chores. And being respectful of their elders and God. Based on the numbers of kids they’ve been having, it appears that their lives are not ”all work and no Play”...
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
_______________
There is a social and biological reality here.

Everyone is supposed to go to school to get a job. That might mean college, it might not, but it is usually expensive one way or the other. By everyone we are talking about both genders.

1. This means that kids rarely get married right out of highschool.
2. Why get married to have sex these days ... or why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.
3. Kids are viewed as a liability you can't afford under later in life.
4. Everyone wants their "career" before responsibilities.
5. Everyone wants to have "me time" and travel, etc. before kids come along.
6. People get set in their ways and suddenly no longer have time for kids or they run out of time to have kids.
7. Too much divorce and everyone worried about being shafted by the other spouse (including non-traditional marriages)

Bottom line is everything comes before pregnancy these days. Everything except marriage. Add into that the fertility issues women experience as they grow older and the entire biological and social system is not dysfunctional.
 

Wildwood

Veteran Member
I have no problem with declining fertility although I see it as increased birth control instead of declining fertility in a world many consider overpopulated. I'm sure my thinking is flawed and other issues such as a changing racial balance will come in to play at some point. In any event, DH and I produced enough babies to replace ourselves but that is all.
 

20Gauge

TB Fanatic
My mother side there were two (her and her sister)
My father side, there were four ( father and 3 others)

I have to my knowledge, 6 cousins (at least four of which never had children)

My brother and I have a total of 3 children. None of which want anything to do with us due to divorce.

The wife had two before we married / got together.

Of the 5 children, there is only one grandchild. All the children are either 30 or near 30 years old.
 
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