INTL A girl who had all four limbs amputated after being wrongly discharged from hospital has had a multimillion-pound settlement-United Kingdom

Melodi

Disaster Cat
While this is an unusually high settlement - it is to support and provide care for this child for the rest of her life, thankfully, her mind seems fine (which often isn't the case). But I'm posting this story because I remember there were suggestions the NHS in the United Kingdom could not be sued for medical malpractice. I pointed out they do get sued all the time. It is just that usually, the standards of proof are higher, and the payouts are much less than in the United States. This award is pretty exceptional for a UK court, but then this girl will need full-time care, possibly for 80 to 100 years, so the large trust fund (39 million pounds) makes sense.

'Extraordinarily brave' girl gets multimillion-pound settlement after losing all four limbs

The young girl, who lost both of her arms and legs, was wrongly discharged from hospital after being given paracetamol. Despite the "very sad" circumstances, the child is performing well in school.

By Lauren Russell, news reporter

Friday 20 January 2023 19:46, UK

Frimley Park Hospital, Surrey
Image:
Frimley Park Hospital, Surrey
Why you can trust Sky News
An "extraordinarily brave" girl who had all four limbs amputated after being wrongly discharged from hospital has had a multimillion-pound settlement approved by a judge.

A High Court in London approved the settlement amount of around £39m after the child, who cannot be identified, was taken to Frimley Park Hospital in Surrey with "red flags for meningitis and sepsis", lawyers said.

After being discharged and given paracetamol for symptoms including a high temperature and drowsiness, lawyers said that it wasn't until she was taken back to A&E with a rash and a fever, that she was diagnosed with meningococcal sepsis.

The young girl was transferred to another hospital where she suffered from multi-organ failure and subsequently had above-knee amputations of both of her legs and above-elbow amputations of her arms.

She also underwent several other procedures, including skin grafts, to treat the infection.

The Frimley Health NHS Foundation Trust admitted liability after the family brought a claim against it, arguing that the child would have avoided amputations and would not have been so ill, if she had been treated urgently with antibiotics.

WHAT IS MENINGOCOCCAL SEPSIS AND WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS?
Meningococcal sepsis, also known as septicaemia, is a type of blood poisoning caused by meningococcal disease, according to the NHS.

In some individuals, bacteria that causes the disease gets into the blood stream, which multiplies and produces poisons.

Babies and young children are at higher risk of getting meningitis and sepsis because their immune systems have not fully developed.

Symptoms of meningitis can include: severe headache and stiff neck, dislike of bright lights and being drowsy, less responsive or vacant. Babies may hold their body stiff, have jerky movements or feel floppy.

Symptoms of sepsis can include: a rash anywhere on the body either non-blanching or sometimes blotchy red, cold hands and feet, rapid or unusual breathing.

Judge Caspar Glyn KC "unhesitatingly" approved the settlement, which will be paid partly in a lump sum and the rest in annual payments for the rest of her life.
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Their healthcare system is on the verge of utter failure. Has been for a good while. Unfortunately there is not a good way to fix it. I am hoping with Brexit and the realization that their wages are stagnant some of that gets fixed...
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Their healthcare system is on the verge of utter failure. Has been for a good while. Unfortunately there is not a good way to fix it. I am hoping with Brexit and the realization that their wages are stagnant some of that gets fixed...
This is also true; I hope they do manage to sort it out and come out the other side. Part of the problems are systemic, and part of the problem is that doctors, nurses, and health care workers that worked all through COVID are simply tired of working under "emergency conditions" while at the same time, their real wages go down (similar to what is happening in some places in the USA).
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
This is also true; I hope they do manage to sort it out and come out the other side. Part of the problems are systemic, and part of the problem is that doctors, nurses, and health care workers that worked all through COVID are simply tired of working under "emergency conditions" while at the same time, their real wages go down (similar to what is happening in some places in the USA).
Not only that their work loads are rationed on a yearly basis. So efficient folks literally can do nothing if they meet their yearly quota early.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Not only that their work loads are rationed on a yearly basis. So efficient folks literally can do nothing if they meet their yearly quota early.
You know, I follow the NHS a lot for several reasons, and I have NEVER heard of this - do you have a link? Also, I don't know of any medical professional in the UK (and I know several, including a surgeon who is now a GP) that "finishes their yearly quota early."

Things are so backed up that patients are spending up to four or five days on "trollies," In many hospitals, it is nearly impossible to walk through the wards, so many patients are on outside of the rooms on them, and some people are being cared for inside of ambulances which in the case of one woman with a broken hip took over 24 hours to arrive.

This was happening before the strikes. It is even worse now.
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
You know, I follow the NHS a lot for several reasons, and I have NEVER heard of this - do you have a link? Also, I don't know of any medical professional in the UK (and I know several, including a surgeon who is now a GP) that "finishes their yearly quota early."

Things are so backed up that patients are spending up to four or five days on "trollies," In many hospitals, it is nearly impossible to walk through the wards, so many patients are on outside of the rooms on them, and some people are being cared for inside of ambulances which in the case of one woman with a broken hip took over 24 hours to arrive.

This was happening before the strikes. It is even worse now.
Some of this is stuff I remember from a long while ago and I doubt has changed much.

Let me see what I can find first there is this:
Tier 2 visa quotas are stopping doctors from abroad coming in to work

referreals are rationed

14 APR 2006 BRITAIN’S “UNIVERSAL CARE” HEALTH SYSTEM PUTS QUOTAS ON REFERRALS​

The London Times reports that Britain’s National Health System has a secret rationing plan: Doctors are being given a ceiling on the number of patients they can refer to specialists.
Says the newspaper:

Patients are being denied appointments with consultants in a systematic attempt to ration care and save the NHS money, The Times has learnt.
Leaked documents passed to The Times show that while ministers promise patients choice, a series of barriers are being erected limiting GPs’ rights to refer people to consultants.

another article mentioning the doctor quota issue

even pharmacies have annual quotas


As far as I could read into things the quotas were a cost savings measure to ensure that medical costs could not go into a cost over run condition.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Thanks for the links, but that isn't about giving people deadlines, and then they can slack off when they meet them. The immigration situation for doctors and nurses became more complicated with BREXIT and the fact that a huge portion of the UK medical doctors and nurses (this also was happening in Ireland) were from none European countries. There were several situations a few years ago when patients died or were misdiagnosed because the doctor didn't speak English well enough to communicate (now there is testing).

And, of course, the NHS (and every other health system) has secret rationing plans of a sort - the difference is that in tax-payer-supported systems (or partly tax-payer-funded systems), when these things come out, the folks responsible often are held accountable or at least publically shamed.

In the US "for profit" system, rationing is done by insurance companies, and most of that result in "negative outcomes" of all sorts (insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, nurses) are covered up by "nondisclosure agreements" usually with a "settlement of undisclosed amount."

The other way US medical care is rationed is on the taxpayer-supported parts of the system, with the governments (State and Federal) paying hospitals at such low rates that they can't afford to provide it. Ditto, medical care beyond that first "make sure the patient won't die in 24 hours" look over by an ER doctor; a lot of people simply can't afford care so they don't try; often until they collapse and someone calls the ambulance.

I have no good answers, but the best medical care I ever got was when well insured in the US and the worst was when I was in the US and uninsured (laid off and unemployed). The best care I have had next to that brief well-insured period in the US was in Sweden and England followed by Ireland (which is mixed and a mixed system - it isn't "free" at the point of access for most people).
 

Knoxville's Joker

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Thanks for the links, but that isn't about giving people deadlines, and then they can slack off when they meet them. The immigration situation for doctors and nurses became more complicated with BREXIT and the fact that a huge portion of the UK medical doctors and nurses (this also was happening in Ireland) were from none European countries. There were several situations a few years ago when patients died or were misdiagnosed because the doctor didn't speak English well enough to communicate (now there is testing).

And, of course, the NHS (and every other health system) has secret rationing plans of a sort - the difference is that in tax-payer-supported systems (or partly tax-payer-funded systems), when these things come out, the folks responsible often are held accountable or at least publically shamed.

In the US "for profit" system, rationing is done by insurance companies, and most of that result in "negative outcomes" of all sorts (insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, nurses) are covered up by "nondisclosure agreements" usually with a "settlement of undisclosed amount."

The other way US medical care is rationed is on the taxpayer-supported parts of the system, with the governments (State and Federal) paying hospitals at such low rates that they can't afford to provide it. Ditto, medical care beyond that first "make sure the patient won't die in 24 hours" look over by an ER doctor; a lot of people simply can't afford care so they don't try; often until they collapse and someone calls the ambulance.

I have no good answers, but the best medical care I ever got was when well insured in the US and the worst was when I was in the US and uninsured (laid off and unemployed). The best care I have had next to that brief well-insured period in the US was in Sweden and England followed by Ireland (which is mixed and a mixed system - it isn't "free" at the point of access for most people).
In the US a lot of things are set to only be profitable if you crank through patients quickly seeing 40 patients a day minimum in the clinic setting. Reimbursement rates are tied to outcomes and satisfaction. Basically you are rewarded more if you are good and even more if you are serving a poor area.

The problem with poor areas was addressed with incentives and extra federal reimbursement rates. But still not enough in many cases to make anything close to a return, but not all if things are gamed correctly. The only counter is to have a higher volume and hope that you can get some actual paying patients (insurance wise) based on the odds.

Insurance in some cases is requires so much paperwork that some doctors actually give significant discounts on cash only patients.

NHS as far as I can figure and read on things lowers costs by setting very low bars for service(yearly quota maximums). Then the staff gets overworked and abused on the ER side because folks are not getting timely assistance.

Covid actually amplified all the issues. The vaccine mandate pretty much ran off all the good workers that went to places that were smart enough to not require it leaving the bigger outfits to get drained of good workers and older workers that left over the stress. This basically removed a boat load of high performers leaving lesser workers in the wake making things infinitely worse. Now on both sides of the ocean things are fixing to collapse for lack of workers. The problem with all that is if the system collapses and all trust is destroyed it removes a lot of later plans from coming to fruition.
 

Ravekid

Veteran Member
In the US a lot of things are set to only be profitable if you crank through patients quickly seeing 40 patients a day minimum in the clinic setting. Reimbursement rates are tied to outcomes and satisfaction. Basically you are rewarded more if you are good and even more if you are serving a poor area.

Insurance in some cases is requires so much paperwork that some doctors actually give significant discounts on cash only patients.
I had an older primary care physician who is almost 70 years old now. He looked about ten years younger than he was. He "retired" about a year or so ago. His kids were down in Florida and him and his wife had a second home down there so he said they were moving to be close to them. Oddly enough, I found out he is working for a healthcare system clinic in Florida now. Must have gotten bored with retirement?

When I would go and see him for whatever minor issue (sore muscle, cold symptoms, etc.), after insurance and such, the cost was usually around say $115 per general visit. Normal cost was $200+ w/o insurance. To see a physicians assistant at that office is only around $85 with my insurance, for a general visit, which is cheaper than seeing a nurse practitioner at most retail clinics. My new, younger doctor in the same practice charges more. Not like double, maybe more like $150ish. He is younger, so I get he may have to negotiate higher rates because his med school was likely much more costly vs when the older doctor attended.

A few months back I was seeing the PA. She said the old doctor would see upwards of forty patients a day! I was surprised by that number. If one works 48 weeks of the year, say they average 35 patients a week. At $110/visit, at the low end, they are only making $184K/year. Now I have good insurance, so my doctor likely made more money off others. Lets say he made $225K/year. Well there are taxes and insurance. Then he has to share with the practice to cover the building rent, paying for the PAs, RNs, and medical techs.

About five or so years ago, a couple of doctors from this practice went the boutique healthcare route. Basically, they were so busy, people can't get care, etc., they leave the hospital/healthcare system practice and open their own clinic. They charge a flat rate membership fee, so right there the practice has an income even if no one gets treatment. Then the doctors can make money seeing patients and they don't have to worry about seeing 40+ patients a week since they have the membership income to help fund the practice. Patients get more of a VIP treatment and can usually get appointments much quicker. I know one doctor went to work for a local K-12 district because they offered her a flat fee and all she sees are employees and their covered relatives under the district insurance plan. Less stress, minimal overhead since the district pays the rent, phones, etc..
 

dawgofwar10

Veteran Member
There is no amount of money in the world you could pay me to rely on someone else to feed, bathe, and take care of me. I can guarantee she would give the money back to be where she originally was prior to them screwing up. My prayers to her…
 

Griz3752

Retired, practising Curmudgeon
My wife goes under the knife this week so I'm not sure my reading this was a good idea. Neither of us sleep well when separated and yhis won't help me.

No, I'm not showing it to her.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
I had an older primary care physician who is almost 70 years old now. He looked about ten years younger than he was. He "retired" about a year or so ago. His kids were down in Florida and him and his wife had a second home down there so he said they were moving to be close to them. Oddly enough, I found out he is working for a healthcare system clinic in Florida now. Must have gotten bored with retirement?

When I would go and see him for whatever minor issue (sore muscle, cold symptoms, etc.), after insurance and such, the cost was usually around say $115 per general visit. Normal cost was $200+ w/o insurance. To see a physicians assistant at that office is only around $85 with my insurance, for a general visit, which is cheaper than seeing a nurse practitioner at most retail clinics. My new, younger doctor in the same practice charges more. Not like double, maybe more like $150ish. He is younger, so I get he may have to negotiate higher rates because his med school was likely much more costly vs when the older doctor attended.

A few months back I was seeing the PA. She said the old doctor would see upwards of forty patients a day! I was surprised by that number. If one works 48 weeks of the year, say they average 35 patients a week. At $110/visit, at the low end, they are only making $184K/year. Now I have good insurance, so my doctor likely made more money off others. Lets say he made $225K/year. Well there are taxes and insurance. Then he has to share with the practice to cover the building rent, paying for the PAs, RNs, and medical techs.

About five or so years ago, a couple of doctors from this practice went the boutique healthcare route. Basically, they were so busy, people can't get care, etc., they leave the hospital/healthcare system practice and open their own clinic. They charge a flat rate membership fee, so right there the practice has an income even if no one gets treatment. Then the doctors can make money seeing patients and they don't have to worry about seeing 40+ patients a week since they have the membership income to help fund the practice. Patients get more of a VIP treatment and can usually get appointments much quicker. I know one doctor went to work for a local K-12 district because they offered her a flat fee and all she sees are employees and their covered relatives under the district insurance plan. Less stress, minimal overhead since the district pays the rent, phones, etc..
Those numbers look WONDERFUL, until you factor in just ONE of the various expenses. Malpractice Insurance tends to run into the $100K + range per year depending on the specialty involved PLUS his share of clerical and insurance management $$$$
 
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