INSANITY A company has already started releasing sulfur into the atmosphere to create "mini volcanoes" Public will be able to buy "cold carbon credits."

Melodi

Disaster Cat
While this article was originally in the UK Telegraph, I got it from MSN, who had permission to post it. I put it under insanity rather than international, but I can change that if needed. But I consider this insanity usually only found in dystopian science fiction. I'm sure someone "big" (corporation, state actor, NGO, other) is funding this "start-up." Probably because no government or Big Corporate Interest (including the DAVOS crowd) was willing to put their name on it but were frustrated when they were not getting their way fast enough, notice the whole basis of this is so companies and high net worth individuals can buy "cold carbon credits." This could flip the weather in unexpected ways if it continues - not this tiny project, but if the idea catches on. - Melodi
Climate change activist goes rogue releasing ‘mini volcanoes’ to cool atmosphere
Story by Emma Gatten • Yesterday 15:57
51 Comments

AMexico-based startup will next week launch sulphur particles into the stratosphere in a “rogue” move to create a “mini-volcano” effect it says could help cool the planet.

Stratospheric aerosol injection mimics the impact of volcanoes by using a weather balloon to release sulphur - Henry Romero/Reuters

© Henry Romero/Reuters
The technique, known as stratospheric aerosol injection, mimics the impact of volcanoes by using a weather balloon to release sulphur, creating a cloud of particles that reflect the sun’s rays and have a cooling impact.

It is one of several geoengineering techniques being studied as a way to cool the planet to avoid breaching internationally agreed limits on global warming.

The amount of particles that start-up Make Sunsets plans to release in coming days, up to 2kg, will make a minimal difference to overall warming.

But experts in geoengineering say the launches set a dangerous precedent for private companies or governments to interfere with the planet’s atmosphere.

The company is backed by two venture capital funds, and is selling “cooling credits” to the public for $15 (£12), which it says pays for 1g of sulphur, expected to produce enough cooling to offset a ton of carbon emissions for a year.


It released a first balloon in December in Mexico, but will next week launch from California, after the Mexican government released a statement criticising the first effort.

Co-founder Luke Isemans said the potential risks of what he is doing are outweighed by the known threat of climate change.

“I think that pretty quickly leads a rational person to an uncomfortable conclusion that we have a moral obligation to already be doing this at scale,” he told the Telegraph. “Every day we don’t do this is causing needless harm to people and ecosystems.”

Global non-use agreement

The practice is so far largely unregulated, leading experts to warn of the dangers of taking action without global consensus.

If conducted on a large scale, there are concerns the technique could deplete the ozone layer, or change precipitation patterns. Hundreds of scientists have signed a call for a global non-use agreement to stop the development and potential use of all large-scale solar geoengineering technologies.

“It would basically change precipitation patterns, meaning it could mess up the monsoon, which would affect millions of people,” said Lili Fuhr, from the Center for International Environmental Law. “Basically, you’re impacting everyone on this planet, so everyone should have a say. There’s not one country or actor that can take control of the global thermostat and do it benignly for everyone else.”

Experts warn that this cheap and easy method could make it more tempting for governments to use, which could have the potential to fuel conflicts if it goes wrong.


‘No progress on deployment’
But for Mr Iseman, getting global consensus would take too long. Two major programmes in the last 10 years, one led by a team at Bristol University, and another led by scientists in the US, are yet to conduct real-world trials.

“The responsible, brilliant, well funded, adult academics have made no progress on deployment,” he said. “This is the only cost effective thing that we could do during our lifetime that could maintain a liveable world.”

For Ms Fuhr, caution should remain the overriding principle. “I don’t think that the urgency of the situation suddenly turns a really bad idea into a good idea,” she said. “We’ve seen with this rogue experiment reactions were mostly very, very negative.”

Matt Watson, a climate scientist who was involved in the Bristol University research project, said Make Sunsets could end up undermining the case for more controlled geoengineering.

“It makes people who are trying to do cautious, ethically grounded, transparent, non commercial work, it makes their lives more difficult,” he said.

Mr Iseman, who studied business at Wharton University, and has worked in various startups, as well as at one point making metal art for the Burning Man festival in the Nevada desert, said he would keep going with the launches as long as he had funding.

He said his number one aim for the launches next week was to “get balloons up without triggering an international incident.”
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
$15 per "G" assuming thats a gram their selling it's going to take a lot of it to have any affect.
Also it has a shelf life of about + or - three years and using balloons to release that particle of sulphur some 60,000. feet into the upper atmosphere where it may form an acid already sounds a little far fetched.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
$15 per "G" assuming thats a gram their selling it's going to take a lot of it to have any affect.
Also it has a shelf life of about + or - three years and using balloons to release that particle of sulphur some 60,000. feet into the upper atmosphere where it may form an acid already sounds a little far fetched.
My opinion is that this particular "crazy" is a trial balloon to see if people will fall for the idea. I don't think on its own it has any chance of "working," thank goodness.
 

jward

passin' thru
Given that prefixes and "those spechial cats" who're too good to use em correctly, and leave others the burden of using their time to fix "misfilled" threads, has been D's hot potato issue o' late. . . :: shrug ::

..the other problem is thread titles are supposed to be the actual titles, not editorialized hodgepodges.

As to the topic, I think the crazy true believer greenies have far more in store than setting up a lil carbon selling scheme to swindle the masses. . .and some days, watching the race toward that cliff's edge o' an open WW3, I fear the end goal is to drop a nuke or three and get rid o' us pesky humans, and fix the climate all with one fell missile. or three. or thirty. or : (
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Given that prefixes and "those spechial cats" who're too good to use em correctly, and leave others the burden of using their time to fix "misfilled" threads, has been D's hot potato issue o' late. . . :: shrug ::

..the other problem is thread titles are supposed to be the actual titles, not editorialized hodgepodges.

As to the topic, I think the crazy true believer greenies have far more in store than setting up a lil carbon selling scheme to swindle the masses. . .and some days, watching the race toward that cliff's edge o' an open WW3, I fear the end goal is to drop a nuke or three and get rid o' us pesky humans, and fix the climate all with one fell missile. or three. or thirty. or : (
I can change the title and the prefix for 24 hours if needed. I modified the title because Dennis once deleted one of my threads. After all, I had used the actual title, and he didn't like it. Then I was busy all day, and he said I had "refused" to change it - no, I didn't see his PM for hours. He told me several times titles could be modified if they didn't reflect the content very well (or were too long). I thought the original title was confusing, so I tried to make it more to the point.

In reality, I often have no idea precisely what is wanted, but I didn't put that in the herding cat's thread because it was already so heated, and I didn't want to make things worse. While I think this particular "start-up" is just a trial balloon, the implications of "private companies" or "NGOs" and "Special Investment Funds" scaling this up in tune with a push for "Carbon Credits Allowances" is terrifying.

And I thought calling attention to it, and the future implications were important.

Edited to add: Dennis did reinstate the thread after I saw his PM and told him that I hadn't seen it.
 

jward

passin' thru
I agree that most org's of any size find that clearly expressed, and consistently applied protocols, across the board, go a long ways to ending the problems of 'the spechual cats' syndrome.

I think he too would find that part o' the solution to the aggravation and extra work load... undoubtedly one of those situations where it'd get worse before it got better, though
 

Walbash

Contributing Member
Stopping sulphur emissions due to it turning into acid rain was a huge enviromentnazi theme in the 70s or 80s.
This is likely a scam to separate the fools from their money voluntarily.

I foresee people being forced to purchase such credits to raise their ESG score in order to purchase goods if a digital system is put in place.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
I LOVE these "Scientists" who ONLY see 1st order effects of their actions/inputs into exceedingly complex systems.
This id10t has not EVEN looked at the 2nd order results, as "Acid Rain" has been a MAJOR bugbear for Enviro's for DECADES, and has been OVER screeched at the puling masses (of which I are one) for all of those decades.
 

Catnip

Veteran Member
While this article was originally in the UK Telegraph, I got it from MSN, who had permission to post it. I put it under insanity rather than international, but I can change that if needed. But I consider this insanity usually only found in dystopian science fiction. I'm sure someone "big" (corporation, state actor, NGO, other) is funding this "start-up." Probably because no government or Big Corporate Interest (including the DAVOS crowd) was willing to put their name on it but were frustrated when they were not getting their way fast enough, notice the whole basis of this is so companies and high net worth individuals can buy "cold carbon credits." This could flip the weather in unexpected ways if it continues - not this tiny project, but if the idea catches on. - Melodi
Climate change activist goes rogue releasing ‘mini volcanoes’ to cool atmosphere
Story by Emma Gatten • Yesterday 15:57
51 Comments

AMexico-based startup will next week launch sulphur particles into the stratosphere in a “rogue” move to create a “mini-volcano” effect it says could help cool the planet.

Stratospheric aerosol injection mimics the impact of volcanoes by using a weather balloon to release sulphur - Henry Romero/Reuters

© Henry Romero/Reuters
The technique, known as stratospheric aerosol injection, mimics the impact of volcanoes by using a weather balloon to release sulphur, creating a cloud of particles that reflect the sun’s rays and have a cooling impact.

It is one of several geoengineering techniques being studied as a way to cool the planet to avoid breaching internationally agreed limits on global warming.

The amount of particles that start-up Make Sunsets plans to release in coming days, up to 2kg, will make a minimal difference to overall warming.

But experts in geoengineering say the launches set a dangerous precedent for private companies or governments to interfere with the planet’s atmosphere.

The company is backed by two venture capital funds, and is selling “cooling credits” to the public for $15 (£12), which it says pays for 1g of sulphur, expected to produce enough cooling to offset a ton of carbon emissions for a year.


It released a first balloon in December in Mexico, but will next week launch from California, after the Mexican government released a statement criticising the first effort.

Co-founder Luke Isemans said the potential risks of what he is doing are outweighed by the known threat of climate change.

“I think that pretty quickly leads a rational person to an uncomfortable conclusion that we have a moral obligation to already be doing this at scale,” he told the Telegraph. “Every day we don’t do this is causing needless harm to people and ecosystems.”

Global non-use agreement

The practice is so far largely unregulated, leading experts to warn of the dangers of taking action without global consensus.

If conducted on a large scale, there are concerns the technique could deplete the ozone layer, or change precipitation patterns. Hundreds of scientists have signed a call for a global non-use agreement to stop the development and potential use of all large-scale solar geoengineering technologies.

“It would basically change precipitation patterns, meaning it could mess up the monsoon, which would affect millions of people,” said Lili Fuhr, from the Center for International Environmental Law. “Basically, you’re impacting everyone on this planet, so everyone should have a say. There’s not one country or actor that can take control of the global thermostat and do it benignly for everyone else.”

Experts warn that this cheap and easy method could make it more tempting for governments to use, which could have the potential to fuel conflicts if it goes wrong.


‘No progress on deployment’
But for Mr Iseman, getting global consensus would take too long. Two major programmes in the last 10 years, one led by a team at Bristol University, and another led by scientists in the US, are yet to conduct real-world trials.

“The responsible, brilliant, well funded, adult academics have made no progress on deployment,” he said. “This is the only cost effective thing that we could do during our lifetime that could maintain a liveable world.”

For Ms Fuhr, caution should remain the overriding principle. “I don’t think that the urgency of the situation suddenly turns a really bad idea into a good idea,” she said. “We’ve seen with this rogue experiment reactions were mostly very, very negative.”

Matt Watson, a climate scientist who was involved in the Bristol University research project, said Make Sunsets could end up undermining the case for more controlled geoengineering.

“It makes people who are trying to do cautious, ethically grounded, transparent, non commercial work, it makes their lives more difficult,” he said.

Mr Iseman, who studied business at Wharton University, and has worked in various startups, as well as at one point making metal art for the Burning Man festival in the Nevada desert, said he would keep going with the launches as long as he had funding.

He said his number one aim for the launches next week was to “get balloons up without triggering an international incident.”
Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they do.

One of these days one of their "experiments" may explode in all of our faces. Man thinks he is smart but he pales in comparison to what he actually does.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they do.

One of these days one of their "experiments" may explode in all of our faces. Man thinks he is smart but he pales in comparison to what he actually does.
There are times that I don't think it matters if Plato's "Atlantis" story was a myth or a memory; people forget that Atlantis (in his version) fell because they got entangled in a foreign war with the Greeks and hubris. The Gods "destroyed" them in a night and a day. Lots of people remember that last part, but they never talk about the first part. However, it is the topic that starts out the entire discussion when the Egyptian priest tells Plato's Uncle that the silly Athenians don't even know their history or how they beat back the largest empire on the Earth that tried to take them over in a war of conquest and colonization.

Even if that is just a "myth" Plato used to teach a philosophical lesson, I suspect that most modern people are ignoring one of the major points; I have wondered for some time if this is not pointed out on purpose.
 

Babs

Veteran Member
What a scam! There is a couple here in N. Idaho, that has a piece of swampland and are able to make millions selling wetland credits, or some such nonsense. Total scam.
 

SousJo

Contributing Member
I agree that most org's of any size find that clearly expressed, and consistently applied protocols, across the board, go a long ways to ending the problems of 'the spechual cats' syndrome.

I think he too would find that part o' the solution to the aggravation and extra work load... undoubtedly one of those situations where it'd get worse before it got better, though
I suspect Dennis and the staffers are encountering the essential problem with rules.

With people acting in good faith, they are largely unnecessary. A working balance will be achieved that fits the group dynamics so long as the group is flexible enough to allow it. Being married to a rule can derail this healthy process.

With people acting in bad faith, the rules are insufficient. There will always be another "what about NOW", another unique situation, another loophole. Being married to a rule might be the only way to save otherwise healthy group dynamics.

And just try telling the two apart. I was back of the house for a reason, the food never gave me as much stick as people did.

My empathies for Dennis and staff, here they are by the wheelbarrow full.
 

Old Goat

Contributing Member
What a scam! There is a couple here in N. Idaho, that has a piece of swampland and are able to make millions selling wetland credits, or some such nonsense. Total scam.

Wetland Mitigation Banking​


According to the EPA a mitigation bank is a wetland, stream, or other aquatic resource area that has been restored, established, enhanced, or (in certain circumstances) preserved for the purpose of providing compensation for unavoidable impacts to aquatic resources permitted under Section 404 or a similar state or local wetland regulation.
 

Granny Franny

Senior Member
It released a first balloon in December in Mexico, but will next week launch from California, after the Mexican government released a statement criticising the first effort.
I wonder how likely it is that the government is shooting down some of these balloons and it's not some nefarious enemy or space aliens. Just thinking out loud.
 

1eagle

Veteran Member
goes back to a thread last week or so about using CBDC's to control your carbon footprint via spending and activity. Here's your chance to buy extra carbon credits for that road trip you've been wanting to take.
 
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