Profit of Doom
Dismember
You got a pulse?
GOV/MIL 9/15 Biden to Announce National Security Initiative 5pm
- Thread starter phloydius
- Start date
rob0126
Veteran Member
Commies hooking other commies up?
IronMan 2
Senior Member
No, the COLLINS Class is a variation of the Swedish Västergötland class diesel boats. Down Under the COLLINS project was well known to be an extremely poorly managed project which produced the first boat, HMAS COLLINS, which was quite possibly worse that those it was meant to replace. Fast forward some 20+ years and SHEEHAN and RANKIN, the last two boats built with all of the modifications built in from the start, are amongst the best attack submarines in the world, including in war games against the USN and in intel gathering in the South China Sea (shh!)
LoupGarou
Ancient Fuzzball
Maybe they were jealous of all that the taliban got.
Or it might be a bribe for them so that they "destroy" the tapes and transcripts of the Milley conversations (They did call it a national security initiative)....
night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Yeh. thought so (post 123)
the local Jingoists hereabouts seem to think that Australia is somehow associated with China, other than as a speed-bump on the way here.
the local Jingoists hereabouts seem to think that Australia is somehow associated with China, other than as a speed-bump on the way here.
What wasn't mentioned/dwelled upon with the big announcement and is just as important......
Posted for fair use.....
www.thedrive.com
Australia To Buy Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, Will Get At Least Eight Nuclear Submarines
Australia’s new missile and submarine purchase plans are part of concerted efforts to counter China’s increasing military might.
BY THOMAS NEWDICK AND JOSEPH TREVITHICK
SEPTEMBER 16, 2021
The Australian government says it will buy U.S.-made Tomahawk cruise missiles for the Royal Australian Navy, which it will integrate onto its Hobart class destroyers. The announcement of the planned purchase of these long-range strike weapons comes as Australia works to bolster its military capabilities, especially in the maritime domain, in the face of an increasingly powerful China. This also comes just a day after the country revealed it was embarking on a program to acquire nuclear-powered submarines in cooperation with the United States and the United Kingdom, a major decision that you can read about more in The War Zone’s initial reporting here.
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison confirmed this planned missile purchase, as well as expected orders for AGM-158B Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile-Extended Range (JASSM-ER) air-launched cruise missiles for the Royal Australian Air Force, this morning. Yesterday, Morrison, together with U.S. President Joe Biden and U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, announced a new trilateral defense cooperation pact, simply dubbed Australia-United Kingdom-United States, or AUKUS. That initiative includes plans for increased cooperation on the development and fielding of new long-range strike capabilities, as well as the nuclear-powered submarines for the Royal Australian Navy (RAN), among other things.
“I’m announcing, in addition to the acquisitions announced as part of the 2024 structure plan, that we will be enhancing our long-range strike capability, including Tomahawk cruise missiles to be fielded on the Royal Australian Navy Hobart class destroyers, and Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missiles (Extended Range) for our Royal Australian Air Force capabilities,” Morrison declared.
The Royal Australian Navy has three Hobart class destroyers, which it received between 2017 and 2020. These 7,000-ton-displacement warships are of a very modern design and are presently optimized primarily for air defense duties. The addition of Tomahawks would provide these vessels with powerful new long-range land-attack and maritime strike capabilities, increasing their ability to project naval power, in general, over considerable distances. This would also give Australia a new anti-access/area-denial deterrent it could deploy in response to more specific challenges to its national security interests from potential opponents, such as China.
View: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1438318241273634827?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438327684375867394%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
The stealthy JASSM-ERs will similarly expand the Royal Australian Air Force’s ability to prosecute targets at extended ranges. According to official announcements, these missiles will be integrated on both Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) F/A-18A/B Hornet and F-35A Lighting II fighter jets. The actual prospects for the addition of these missiles onto the Legacy Hornets seem extremely slim, and the F/A-18F Super Hornet would seem to be a more likely candidate, given the plan to retire the last of the A/B aircraft by the end of this year. Beyond these fighters, the JASSM-ER could potentially arm the RAAF P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, too.
Tomahawk and JASSM-ER are the latest in a line of advanced missiles that Australia is seeking to field. The original Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile (JASSM) is already used by the RAAF. Previously, Canberra also announced plans to acquire the Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), which is derived from the JASSM-ER. It’s working with the United States on hypersonic missiles, too, including collaboration on the U.S. Army’s Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) program and the Southern Cross Integrated Flight Research Experiment, or SCIFiRE, as well.
With regards to the Tomahawks, though the plan is to field them initially on the Hobart class destroyers, these missiles could also be relevant to Australia’s new nuclear submarine plans. Modern submarines, in general, are inherently highly survivable launch platforms for long-range strike weapons. Nuclear-powered types offer considerable additional advantages in range, dive time, speed, and overall endurance compared to even advanced conventionally powered designs with air-independent propulsion systems.
“Nuclear submarines have clear advantages,” Prime Minister Morrison had explained. “Greater endurance, they’re faster, they have greater power, greater stealth, more carrying capacity. These make nuclear submarines the desired substantial capability enhancement that Australia has needed. It helps us to build regional resilience.”
View: https://twitter.com/CN_Australia/status/1438337807705989120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438337807705989120%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
Continued.....
Posted for fair use.....
Australia To Buy Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, Will Get At Least Eight Nuclear Submarines
Australia’s new missile and submarine purchase plans are part of concerted efforts to counter China’s increasing military might.
www.thedrive.com
Australia To Buy Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, Will Get At Least Eight Nuclear Submarines
Australia’s new missile and submarine purchase plans are part of concerted efforts to counter China’s increasing military might.
BY THOMAS NEWDICK AND JOSEPH TREVITHICK
SEPTEMBER 16, 2021
The Australian government says it will buy U.S.-made Tomahawk cruise missiles for the Royal Australian Navy, which it will integrate onto its Hobart class destroyers. The announcement of the planned purchase of these long-range strike weapons comes as Australia works to bolster its military capabilities, especially in the maritime domain, in the face of an increasingly powerful China. This also comes just a day after the country revealed it was embarking on a program to acquire nuclear-powered submarines in cooperation with the United States and the United Kingdom, a major decision that you can read about more in The War Zone’s initial reporting here.
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison confirmed this planned missile purchase, as well as expected orders for AGM-158B Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile-Extended Range (JASSM-ER) air-launched cruise missiles for the Royal Australian Air Force, this morning. Yesterday, Morrison, together with U.S. President Joe Biden and U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, announced a new trilateral defense cooperation pact, simply dubbed Australia-United Kingdom-United States, or AUKUS. That initiative includes plans for increased cooperation on the development and fielding of new long-range strike capabilities, as well as the nuclear-powered submarines for the Royal Australian Navy (RAN), among other things.
“I’m announcing, in addition to the acquisitions announced as part of the 2024 structure plan, that we will be enhancing our long-range strike capability, including Tomahawk cruise missiles to be fielded on the Royal Australian Navy Hobart class destroyers, and Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missiles (Extended Range) for our Royal Australian Air Force capabilities,” Morrison declared.
The Royal Australian Navy has three Hobart class destroyers, which it received between 2017 and 2020. These 7,000-ton-displacement warships are of a very modern design and are presently optimized primarily for air defense duties. The addition of Tomahawks would provide these vessels with powerful new long-range land-attack and maritime strike capabilities, increasing their ability to project naval power, in general, over considerable distances. This would also give Australia a new anti-access/area-denial deterrent it could deploy in response to more specific challenges to its national security interests from potential opponents, such as China.
View: https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1438318241273634827?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438327684375867394%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
The stealthy JASSM-ERs will similarly expand the Royal Australian Air Force’s ability to prosecute targets at extended ranges. According to official announcements, these missiles will be integrated on both Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) F/A-18A/B Hornet and F-35A Lighting II fighter jets. The actual prospects for the addition of these missiles onto the Legacy Hornets seem extremely slim, and the F/A-18F Super Hornet would seem to be a more likely candidate, given the plan to retire the last of the A/B aircraft by the end of this year. Beyond these fighters, the JASSM-ER could potentially arm the RAAF P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, too.
Tomahawk and JASSM-ER are the latest in a line of advanced missiles that Australia is seeking to field. The original Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile (JASSM) is already used by the RAAF. Previously, Canberra also announced plans to acquire the Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), which is derived from the JASSM-ER. It’s working with the United States on hypersonic missiles, too, including collaboration on the U.S. Army’s Precision Strike Missile (PrSM) program and the Southern Cross Integrated Flight Research Experiment, or SCIFiRE, as well.
With regards to the Tomahawks, though the plan is to field them initially on the Hobart class destroyers, these missiles could also be relevant to Australia’s new nuclear submarine plans. Modern submarines, in general, are inherently highly survivable launch platforms for long-range strike weapons. Nuclear-powered types offer considerable additional advantages in range, dive time, speed, and overall endurance compared to even advanced conventionally powered designs with air-independent propulsion systems.
“Nuclear submarines have clear advantages,” Prime Minister Morrison had explained. “Greater endurance, they’re faster, they have greater power, greater stealth, more carrying capacity. These make nuclear submarines the desired substantial capability enhancement that Australia has needed. It helps us to build regional resilience.”
View: https://twitter.com/CN_Australia/status/1438337807705989120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438337807705989120%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
Continued.....
Continued.....
Only two countries presently have TLAMs in inventory, the United States and the United Kingdom, and, in both cases, nuclear-powered submarines are an important launch platform for these weapons. Australia looks set to become the third operator of the missile and integrating them onto its future nuclear submarines, in addition to the Hobart class destroyers, would make perfect sense. It is also worth noting that Canada, too, has expressed an interest in acquiring the missiles for its forthcoming frigates.
Tomahawks or not, the Royal Australian Navy is set to get a major boost in capabilities from the addition of a nuclear submarine force. Beyond what we already learned yesterday, we now also have confirmation that Australia plans to acquire at least eight of these boats. The plan is to build them locally in Adelaide with direct support from the United States and the United Kingdom through the AUKUS defense agreement.
View: https://youtu.be/1WYuGu5QNDA
The timeline for the new submarines includes an 18-month period in which the U.K. and U.S. governments will help Australia explore the “optimal pathway” toward acquiring the new boats. So far, it’s not been determined whether the new SSNs will be a version of the British Astute class, the U.S. Virginia class or the forthcoming SSN(X), or if they will emerge as something altogether different.
View: https://twitter.com/JonathanLea10/status/1438324009402200065?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438324009402200065%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
The first of the new nuclear submarines are then expected to arrive within 10 years, but until then, the Royal Australian Navy will still operate its Collins class submarines, which will continue to undergo their life-extension program, ensuring they remain viable into the late 2040s. The first of these boats to be modernized will be HMAS Farncomb, in 2026.
View: https://twitter.com/Australian_Navy/status/1438397768419008514?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438397768419008514%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
As widely expected, this new submarine plan also spells the end of the troubled program to procure 12 Attack class conventionally powered submarines for the Royal Australian Navy under the SEA 1000 contract with France’s Naval Group. The program, which includes the production of 12 submarines, had increased from $40 billion to nearly $70 billion.
The move was met with predictable dismay from France, including a joint statement from Jean-Yves Le Drian, France’s Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs, and Florence Parly, the French Minister of Defense, which took particular aim at Washington, for its role in the collapse of the deal:
“The American choice which leads to the removal of an ally and a European partner such as France from a structuring partnership with Australia, at a time when we are facing unprecedented challenges in the Indo-Pacific region (...) marks an absence of coherence that France can only observe and regret.”
View: https://twitter.com/HerveLemahieu/status/1438314377136934916?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438314377136934916%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
Meanwhile, in their own statement, the Naval Group insisted the Attack class was “a regionally superior conventional submarine with exceptional performance,” adding that it was “offering Australia a sovereign submarine capability making unrivaled commitments in terms of technology transfer, job, and local content.”
View: https://twitter.com/navalgroup/status/1438358092333322241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438358092333322241%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
“Contractual gates were built into the Attack class project, necessarily,” Prime Minister Morrison explained. “Decisions have to be made before you proceed through those gates, and so, as we were looking towards that next gate, we have decided not to enter through it as part of the Attack class program but instead now to pursue this path which gives us a far greater capability to meet the strategic needs.”
All in all, despite no reference to China by officials, Australia is clearly seeking to counter Beijing’s growing military influence in the Asia-Pacific region. The decision to acquire nuclear-powered submarines, as well as long-range missiles, points squarely to increasingly potential Chinese maritime threats, especially in the disputed waters of the South China Sea. Tellingly, the Australian move has already led to criticism from China:
View: https://twitter.com/CavasShips/status/1438564788003655680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438564788003655680%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
“Our world is becoming more complex, especially here in our region, the Indo-Pacific,” Morrison said, again without mentioning China by name. “This affects us all. The future of the Indo-Pacific will impact all our futures.”
So, Australia’s decision to become one of only a handful of operators of nuclear-powered submarines does stand out, but it is also part of a much broader investment in expanding the country’s maritime capabilities. Those boats, as well as Tomahawk cruise missiles, are just some of the new tools the country, together with its closest allies the United States and the United Kingdom, is pursuing to bolster its ability to meet its national security needs in an increasingly contested Asia-Pacific region and match Beijing’s ambitions in this strategically vital part of the world.
Contact the author: thomas@thedrive.com
MORE TO READ
Only two countries presently have TLAMs in inventory, the United States and the United Kingdom, and, in both cases, nuclear-powered submarines are an important launch platform for these weapons. Australia looks set to become the third operator of the missile and integrating them onto its future nuclear submarines, in addition to the Hobart class destroyers, would make perfect sense. It is also worth noting that Canada, too, has expressed an interest in acquiring the missiles for its forthcoming frigates.
Tomahawks or not, the Royal Australian Navy is set to get a major boost in capabilities from the addition of a nuclear submarine force. Beyond what we already learned yesterday, we now also have confirmation that Australia plans to acquire at least eight of these boats. The plan is to build them locally in Adelaide with direct support from the United States and the United Kingdom through the AUKUS defense agreement.
The timeline for the new submarines includes an 18-month period in which the U.K. and U.S. governments will help Australia explore the “optimal pathway” toward acquiring the new boats. So far, it’s not been determined whether the new SSNs will be a version of the British Astute class, the U.S. Virginia class or the forthcoming SSN(X), or if they will emerge as something altogether different.
View: https://twitter.com/JonathanLea10/status/1438324009402200065?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438324009402200065%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
The first of the new nuclear submarines are then expected to arrive within 10 years, but until then, the Royal Australian Navy will still operate its Collins class submarines, which will continue to undergo their life-extension program, ensuring they remain viable into the late 2040s. The first of these boats to be modernized will be HMAS Farncomb, in 2026.
View: https://twitter.com/Australian_Navy/status/1438397768419008514?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438397768419008514%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
As widely expected, this new submarine plan also spells the end of the troubled program to procure 12 Attack class conventionally powered submarines for the Royal Australian Navy under the SEA 1000 contract with France’s Naval Group. The program, which includes the production of 12 submarines, had increased from $40 billion to nearly $70 billion.
The move was met with predictable dismay from France, including a joint statement from Jean-Yves Le Drian, France’s Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs, and Florence Parly, the French Minister of Defense, which took particular aim at Washington, for its role in the collapse of the deal:
“The American choice which leads to the removal of an ally and a European partner such as France from a structuring partnership with Australia, at a time when we are facing unprecedented challenges in the Indo-Pacific region (...) marks an absence of coherence that France can only observe and regret.”
View: https://twitter.com/HerveLemahieu/status/1438314377136934916?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438314377136934916%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
Meanwhile, in their own statement, the Naval Group insisted the Attack class was “a regionally superior conventional submarine with exceptional performance,” adding that it was “offering Australia a sovereign submarine capability making unrivaled commitments in terms of technology transfer, job, and local content.”
View: https://twitter.com/navalgroup/status/1438358092333322241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438358092333322241%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
“Contractual gates were built into the Attack class project, necessarily,” Prime Minister Morrison explained. “Decisions have to be made before you proceed through those gates, and so, as we were looking towards that next gate, we have decided not to enter through it as part of the Attack class program but instead now to pursue this path which gives us a far greater capability to meet the strategic needs.”
All in all, despite no reference to China by officials, Australia is clearly seeking to counter Beijing’s growing military influence in the Asia-Pacific region. The decision to acquire nuclear-powered submarines, as well as long-range missiles, points squarely to increasingly potential Chinese maritime threats, especially in the disputed waters of the South China Sea. Tellingly, the Australian move has already led to criticism from China:
View: https://twitter.com/CavasShips/status/1438564788003655680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1438564788003655680%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedrive.com%2Fthe-war-zone%2F42408%2Faustralia-to-buy-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-will-get-at-least-eight-nuclear-submarines
“Our world is becoming more complex, especially here in our region, the Indo-Pacific,” Morrison said, again without mentioning China by name. “This affects us all. The future of the Indo-Pacific will impact all our futures.”
So, Australia’s decision to become one of only a handful of operators of nuclear-powered submarines does stand out, but it is also part of a much broader investment in expanding the country’s maritime capabilities. Those boats, as well as Tomahawk cruise missiles, are just some of the new tools the country, together with its closest allies the United States and the United Kingdom, is pursuing to bolster its ability to meet its national security needs in an increasingly contested Asia-Pacific region and match Beijing’s ambitions in this strategically vital part of the world.
Contact the author: thomas@thedrive.com
MORE TO READ
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Hummm......
Posted for fair use.....
www.thedrive.com
Australia Could Push To Acquire Retired US Navy Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines
Ex-Prime Minister floats using retired U.S. or U.K. nuclear submarines to bridge the gap until Australian-built ones can enter service.
BY BRIAN O'ROURKE
NOVEMBER 4, 2021
The recently signed Australia–United Kingdom–United States defense agreement, or AUKUS, calls for the United States and Britain to share nuclear-submarine technology with Australia. Although the agreement was light on details of what, when, and how, plans apparently are for Australia to eventually build at least eight nuclear-powered attack submarines. In the interim, former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott is now advocating for Australia to obtain used nuclear submarines to get the sharing started so as to spin up the Royal Australian Navy’s submarine capabilities and nuclear know-how. Australia has never had a nuclear power plant of any kind.
Speaking last Friday at a Wilson Center event in Washington, D.C., Abbott suggested that, in the short term, Australia should consider leasing or purchasing one or more existing U.S. submarines to develop Australia’s capability to operate nuclear-powered submarines.
View: https://youtu.be/mZ7DkKKn4uU
Abbott has posed the question, “Might it be possible for Australia to acquire a retiring [Los Angeles] class boat or two and to put it under an Australian flag and to run it, if you like, as an operational training boat?” Abbott added that he’d make a similar proposal for British nuclear-powered submarines “were I in London.”
“It would, in that capacity, be — if you like — an addition to the order of battle in the western Pacific, should that be necessary,” he added.
The U.S. Navy has experience turning Los Angeles-class submarines into floating schoolhouses. This past summer, the ex-USS San Francisco completed its conversion from a nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) to a moored training ship, MTS-711, now operating in Charleston, South Carolina. There it joined the converted former USS La Jolla, which began its new life in this training role last year. And while Abbott clearly is calling for a deployable vessel, not an MTS, if two subs were obtained, a moored training ship might be a valuable teaching tool to add.
NNSY/TONY ANDERSON
The USS San Francisco in Norfolk Naval Shipyard near the end of its conversion from a nuclear-powered attack submarine to a moored training ship.
Potential candidates for such a lease might include: the USS Providence (SSN-719), scheduled to be decommissioned this coming December; and the Oklahoma City (SSN-723), scheduled to decommission in June 2022. Two additional submarines — the ex-Pittsburgh (SSN-720) and the former Louisville (SSN-724) — were decommissioned in April 2020 and March 2021, respectively, but both might be too far along in the disposal process to be diverted and restored. All four submarines are equipped with vertical-launch systems (VLS) for Tomahawk cruise missiles. Pittsburgh and Providence were both commissioned in 1985. Louisville was commissioned in 1986, and Oklahoma City was commissioned in 1988. Two Flight I boats, which lack the VLS and other improvements, also retired in 2021: the Bremerton (SSN-698) and Olympia (SSN-717).
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UK STARTS WORK ON A NEW NUCLEAR SUBMARINE RIGHT AFTER AUSTRALIA SAYS IT'S LOOKING TO BUYBy Thomas Newdick
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CHECK OUT THIS LOS ANGELES CLASS NUCLEAR SUBMARINE TRANSFORMED INTO A FLOATING SCHOOLHOUSEBy Joseph Trevithick
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According to SeaPower magazine, the next tranche of “688 boats” to face the breaker’s yard will be: the USS Chicago (SSN-721), Key West (SSN-722), San Juan (SSN-751), and Topeka (SSN-754), in fiscal year 2024. The San Juan and Topeka, which entered service in 1988 and 1989, respectively, are the first of the improved “688i” submarines to be scheduled for decommissioning. The “improved” boats have better sensors and quieting technology, and, most notably, moved the dive planes from the sail to the bow, into which they can retract.
Britain has retired four of its seven Trafalgar class attack submarines. A fifth, HMS Trenchant, has been laid up since March, but is not yet officially decommissioned. HMS Talent received a significant upgrade in 2018, and Jane’s reported in March 2021 that the boat would be extended one year beyond its previously announced 2021 retirement, while the final sub in the class, HMS Triumph, would get an 18-month reprieve beyond its planned 2022 retirement. Both extensions were reportedly caused by delays in the follow-on Astute class.
CROWN COPYRIGHT
Observers watch the Royal Navy submarine HMS Talent conducting Dive and Surface Drills in the Kyle of Lochalsh, Scotland. The Trafalgar class submarine is due to retire in the next two to three years and could be a candidate for transfer to Australia.
It is not known what anticipated life is left in the nuclear fuel and reactors on any of the U.S. or U.K. boats, but it seems probable the submarines would require major work in that area. Refueling and overhaul (ROH) is an extremely expensive endeavor that requires the submarine’s hull to be cut open. During the refueling process, the ship’s systems are upgraded and overhauled as well. Considering the limited options, this could be necessary under such a near-term procurement scheme.
The good news is that there is a well-established process in place to do it, although extending the submarine’s life beyond what has been realized in the past is another factor to contend with. On the other hand, finding dry dock time and the resources for ROHs for the Los Angeles class boats outside of those already planned would be challenging. And the rules for transferring a nuclear-powered vessel to a foreign power are uncharted waters.
U.S. NAVY / MC2 KELSEY J. HOCKENBERGER
The Los Angeles-class fast-attack submarine USS Asheville (SSN 758) transits Apra Harbor in Jan. 2021 as the boat deploys from Guam to conduct surveillance, training, and other critical missions for the U.S. 7th Fleet.
There has already been an appalling backlog of maintenance for America’s submarine fleet. The USS Boise (SSN-764), for example, has been waiting its turn for maintenance since fiscal year 2016. Making time for an allies’ needs, on top of the Navy’s growing demands, could become a major issue. The Congressional Budget Office already estimates that the U.S. submarine fleet’s “size will exceed the yards’ capacity to maintain it, not only over the next several years but in 25 of the next 30 years.” Still, strategic imperatives could trump these concerns, and the United States might make getting Australia in the nuclear submarine game as fast as possible a top priority.
Australia has expressed interest in building its future nuclear-powered submarines domestically, in whole or in part. This may be just as well, given that General Dynamics’ Electric Boat division is already at or near capacity building submarines for the U.S. Navy, although British builders might be better positioned to increase their output — if they can avoid further delays in the Astute program.
Australia seems likely to base its submarine on a mature design such as the U.S. Virginia class or U.K. Astute class. Given the long lead time for building such complex and specialized warships — not to mention creating the infrastructure necessary to do so — many analysts think it could take until 2040 or later before the first new nuclear-powered submarine enters Royal Australian Navy service. This makes Abbot’s suggestion of buying or leasing an existing sub or two intriguing, to say the least.
CROWN COPYRIGHT
HMS Ambush, the second of the Royal Navy’s potent new Astute class nuclear-powered attack submarines, sails into Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde.
Abbott, a member of the Liberal Party, is a former prime minister who served from 2013 to 2015 — coinciding with the rise of Xi Jinping in China — the same party as current Prime Minister Scott Morrison. While Abbott is not a member of the present Australian government, it seems unlikely he would speak openly about the submarine proposal without at least an informal blessing of Australia’s Foreign and Defence Ministries, which are both headed by fellow Liberals.
At the Wilson Center event, Abbott described himself as “like everyone else— until probably the end of 2015, I was a China optimist. We all thought for a long time that China and the West were on ... converging paths.” China became the largest customer for Australian exports, he said, but then “weaponized trade against Australia.” And now, he noted, “China is stepping up its intimidation of Taiwan all the time. In the few days before my [early October] visit [to Taiwan], there was something like 150 Chinese warplanes dispatched into the Taiwanese air [defense identification] zones. I expect that [such behavior] will get more intense.”
Abbott was referring to a speech he gave in Taipei on Oct. 7, during which he used remarkably candid language. “Australia has no issue with China,” he said. “We welcome trade, investment, and visits — just not further hectoring about being the chewing gum on China's boot.”
View: https://youtu.be/ed5DJQDaa80
He went on to add, “Victor Gao, a senior Beijing foreign policy analyst and former translator for Chairman Deng [Xiaoping] directly threatened Australians.‘Do you want to be a target for a possible nuclear war?’ he said, in response to our decision to acquire nuclear-powered but not [nuclear-]armed submarines. So, if the drums of war can be heard in our region — as an official of ours has noted, it's not Australia that's beating them. The only drums we beat are for justice and freedom.”
Regardless of the percussion metaphors, it seems Australia may want to consummate its nuclear submarine alliance sooner than some may have expected.
Contact the author: Brian@thedrive.com
Posted for fair use.....
Australia Could Push To Acquire Retired US Navy Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines
Ex-Prime Minister floats using retired U.S. or U.K. nuclear submarines to bridge the gap until Australian-built ones can enter service.
www.thedrive.com
Australia Could Push To Acquire Retired US Navy Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines
Ex-Prime Minister floats using retired U.S. or U.K. nuclear submarines to bridge the gap until Australian-built ones can enter service.
BY BRIAN O'ROURKE
NOVEMBER 4, 2021
The recently signed Australia–United Kingdom–United States defense agreement, or AUKUS, calls for the United States and Britain to share nuclear-submarine technology with Australia. Although the agreement was light on details of what, when, and how, plans apparently are for Australia to eventually build at least eight nuclear-powered attack submarines. In the interim, former Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott is now advocating for Australia to obtain used nuclear submarines to get the sharing started so as to spin up the Royal Australian Navy’s submarine capabilities and nuclear know-how. Australia has never had a nuclear power plant of any kind.
Speaking last Friday at a Wilson Center event in Washington, D.C., Abbott suggested that, in the short term, Australia should consider leasing or purchasing one or more existing U.S. submarines to develop Australia’s capability to operate nuclear-powered submarines.
Abbott has posed the question, “Might it be possible for Australia to acquire a retiring [Los Angeles] class boat or two and to put it under an Australian flag and to run it, if you like, as an operational training boat?” Abbott added that he’d make a similar proposal for British nuclear-powered submarines “were I in London.”
“It would, in that capacity, be — if you like — an addition to the order of battle in the western Pacific, should that be necessary,” he added.
The U.S. Navy has experience turning Los Angeles-class submarines into floating schoolhouses. This past summer, the ex-USS San Francisco completed its conversion from a nuclear-powered attack submarine (SSN) to a moored training ship, MTS-711, now operating in Charleston, South Carolina. There it joined the converted former USS La Jolla, which began its new life in this training role last year. And while Abbott clearly is calling for a deployable vessel, not an MTS, if two subs were obtained, a moored training ship might be a valuable teaching tool to add.
NNSY/TONY ANDERSON
The USS San Francisco in Norfolk Naval Shipyard near the end of its conversion from a nuclear-powered attack submarine to a moored training ship.
Potential candidates for such a lease might include: the USS Providence (SSN-719), scheduled to be decommissioned this coming December; and the Oklahoma City (SSN-723), scheduled to decommission in June 2022. Two additional submarines — the ex-Pittsburgh (SSN-720) and the former Louisville (SSN-724) — were decommissioned in April 2020 and March 2021, respectively, but both might be too far along in the disposal process to be diverted and restored. All four submarines are equipped with vertical-launch systems (VLS) for Tomahawk cruise missiles. Pittsburgh and Providence were both commissioned in 1985. Louisville was commissioned in 1986, and Oklahoma City was commissioned in 1988. Two Flight I boats, which lack the VLS and other improvements, also retired in 2021: the Bremerton (SSN-698) and Olympia (SSN-717).
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According to SeaPower magazine, the next tranche of “688 boats” to face the breaker’s yard will be: the USS Chicago (SSN-721), Key West (SSN-722), San Juan (SSN-751), and Topeka (SSN-754), in fiscal year 2024. The San Juan and Topeka, which entered service in 1988 and 1989, respectively, are the first of the improved “688i” submarines to be scheduled for decommissioning. The “improved” boats have better sensors and quieting technology, and, most notably, moved the dive planes from the sail to the bow, into which they can retract.
Britain has retired four of its seven Trafalgar class attack submarines. A fifth, HMS Trenchant, has been laid up since March, but is not yet officially decommissioned. HMS Talent received a significant upgrade in 2018, and Jane’s reported in March 2021 that the boat would be extended one year beyond its previously announced 2021 retirement, while the final sub in the class, HMS Triumph, would get an 18-month reprieve beyond its planned 2022 retirement. Both extensions were reportedly caused by delays in the follow-on Astute class.
CROWN COPYRIGHT
Observers watch the Royal Navy submarine HMS Talent conducting Dive and Surface Drills in the Kyle of Lochalsh, Scotland. The Trafalgar class submarine is due to retire in the next two to three years and could be a candidate for transfer to Australia.
It is not known what anticipated life is left in the nuclear fuel and reactors on any of the U.S. or U.K. boats, but it seems probable the submarines would require major work in that area. Refueling and overhaul (ROH) is an extremely expensive endeavor that requires the submarine’s hull to be cut open. During the refueling process, the ship’s systems are upgraded and overhauled as well. Considering the limited options, this could be necessary under such a near-term procurement scheme.
The good news is that there is a well-established process in place to do it, although extending the submarine’s life beyond what has been realized in the past is another factor to contend with. On the other hand, finding dry dock time and the resources for ROHs for the Los Angeles class boats outside of those already planned would be challenging. And the rules for transferring a nuclear-powered vessel to a foreign power are uncharted waters.
U.S. NAVY / MC2 KELSEY J. HOCKENBERGER
The Los Angeles-class fast-attack submarine USS Asheville (SSN 758) transits Apra Harbor in Jan. 2021 as the boat deploys from Guam to conduct surveillance, training, and other critical missions for the U.S. 7th Fleet.
There has already been an appalling backlog of maintenance for America’s submarine fleet. The USS Boise (SSN-764), for example, has been waiting its turn for maintenance since fiscal year 2016. Making time for an allies’ needs, on top of the Navy’s growing demands, could become a major issue. The Congressional Budget Office already estimates that the U.S. submarine fleet’s “size will exceed the yards’ capacity to maintain it, not only over the next several years but in 25 of the next 30 years.” Still, strategic imperatives could trump these concerns, and the United States might make getting Australia in the nuclear submarine game as fast as possible a top priority.
Australia has expressed interest in building its future nuclear-powered submarines domestically, in whole or in part. This may be just as well, given that General Dynamics’ Electric Boat division is already at or near capacity building submarines for the U.S. Navy, although British builders might be better positioned to increase their output — if they can avoid further delays in the Astute program.
Australia seems likely to base its submarine on a mature design such as the U.S. Virginia class or U.K. Astute class. Given the long lead time for building such complex and specialized warships — not to mention creating the infrastructure necessary to do so — many analysts think it could take until 2040 or later before the first new nuclear-powered submarine enters Royal Australian Navy service. This makes Abbot’s suggestion of buying or leasing an existing sub or two intriguing, to say the least.
CROWN COPYRIGHT
HMS Ambush, the second of the Royal Navy’s potent new Astute class nuclear-powered attack submarines, sails into Her Majesty’s Naval Base Clyde.
Abbott, a member of the Liberal Party, is a former prime minister who served from 2013 to 2015 — coinciding with the rise of Xi Jinping in China — the same party as current Prime Minister Scott Morrison. While Abbott is not a member of the present Australian government, it seems unlikely he would speak openly about the submarine proposal without at least an informal blessing of Australia’s Foreign and Defence Ministries, which are both headed by fellow Liberals.
At the Wilson Center event, Abbott described himself as “like everyone else— until probably the end of 2015, I was a China optimist. We all thought for a long time that China and the West were on ... converging paths.” China became the largest customer for Australian exports, he said, but then “weaponized trade against Australia.” And now, he noted, “China is stepping up its intimidation of Taiwan all the time. In the few days before my [early October] visit [to Taiwan], there was something like 150 Chinese warplanes dispatched into the Taiwanese air [defense identification] zones. I expect that [such behavior] will get more intense.”
Abbott was referring to a speech he gave in Taipei on Oct. 7, during which he used remarkably candid language. “Australia has no issue with China,” he said. “We welcome trade, investment, and visits — just not further hectoring about being the chewing gum on China's boot.”
He went on to add, “Victor Gao, a senior Beijing foreign policy analyst and former translator for Chairman Deng [Xiaoping] directly threatened Australians.‘Do you want to be a target for a possible nuclear war?’ he said, in response to our decision to acquire nuclear-powered but not [nuclear-]armed submarines. So, if the drums of war can be heard in our region — as an official of ours has noted, it's not Australia that's beating them. The only drums we beat are for justice and freedom.”
Regardless of the percussion metaphors, it seems Australia may want to consummate its nuclear submarine alliance sooner than some may have expected.
Contact the author: Brian@thedrive.com
Seeker22
Has No Life - Lives on TB
When do we start acting like it?