INTL 5,000-year-old tavern uncovered after dig in southern Iraq (From the time of Abraham)

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I've known about this discovery for several weeks, but the first announcements didn't have much information. For context, this find isn't at Ur, but it is from the time of Abraham (more or less). It is probably an example of places he would have had a meal in Ur or where King Gilgamesh might have snuck off for a pint. There is a popular theory that the Sumerians domesticated wheat to make beer rather than for making bread. Though now that we know even Neanderthals were cooking grains, that's unlikely; they drank so much beer it is easy to see how that theory came about. Some things about humans never change. Set up a city, and right away, you get taverns! Photos included because they are an important part of the story - Melodi

5,000-year-old tavern uncovered after dig in southern Iraq​

Updated / Wednesday, 15 Feb 2023 06:53


An aerial picture shows a general view of the newly-excavated site at Lagash

An aerial picture shows a general view of the newly-excavated site at Lagash

Archaeologists in southern Iraq have uncovered the remains of a tavern dating back nearly 5,000 years which they hope will illuminate the lives of ordinary people in the world's first cities.

The US-Italian team made the find in the ruins of ancient Lagash, northeast of the modern city of Nasiriyah, which was already known to have been one of the first urban centres of the Sumerian civilisation of ancient Iraq.

The joint team from the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Pisa discovered the remains of a primitive refrigeration system, a large oven, benches for diners and around 150 serving bowls.

Fish and animal bones were found in the bowls, alongside evidence of beer drinking, which was widespread among the Sumerians.

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An aerial picture shows a general view of the newly-excavated site at Lagash
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Sherd pottery fragments seen at the site
"So we've got the refrigerator, we've got the hundreds of vessels ready to be served, benches where people would sit... and behind the refrigerator is an oven that would have been used... for cooking food," project director Holly Pittman said.

"What we understand this thing to be is a place where people - regular people - could come to eat and that is not domestic," she said.

"We call it a tavern because beer is by far the most common drink, even more than water, for the Sumerians", she said, noting that in one of the temples excavated in the area "there was a beer recipe that was found on a cuneiform tablet".

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A clay tablet bearing fingerprints is seen at the site
The world's first cities developed in what is now southern Iraq, after agricultural surpluses from the domestication of the first crops allowed the emergence of new social classes not engaged directly in food production.

The Lagash area, close to the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, was dubbed the "garden of the gods" by the ancients for its fertility and gave rise to a string of Sumerian cities dating back to the early dynastic period.

"Lagash was one of the important cities of southern Iraq," Iraqi archaeologist Baker Azab Wali said, after working with the US-Italian team on the site.

"Its inhabitants depended on agriculture, livestock, fishing, but also on the exchange of goods," he said.

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Iraqi archaeologist Baqer Azab Wali said Lagash was one of the important cities of southern Iraq
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Ms Pittman said the team was eager to learn more about the occupations of the people who used the tavern in its heyday in around 2700 BC to throw new light on the social structure of the first cities.

Detailed analysis would need to be carried out on the samples taken during the excavations the team completed in November.

"There is so much that we do not know about this early period of the emergence of cities and that is what we are investigating," she said.

"We hope to be able to characterise the neighbourhoods and the kinds of occupation... of the people that lived in this big city who were not the elite," she added.

"Most of the work done at the other sites focuses on kings and priests. And that is all very important but the regular people are also important."
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Here is how you can make Summarian Beer, I remember we were in Sweden when the tablet was used to recreate it - this is for home brewers.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
I am glad you said that and my question is could Abraham have been Sumerian? Is it safe to assume that, probably not safe, but hey.
Well, the Old Testament says he was from "Ur of the Caldees," that's Sumerian. We couldn't resist having complaining letters from Lot about his taxes to King Gilgamesh when we wrote the novel together. When I had to deep dive into this period for it (with what we knew over 20 years ago) I was shocked at how "Mesopotamian" Abraham was (or was described to be).

Without turning this into a religion thread (I want to keep this one fun), even the descriptions of Abrahams's relationship with God are very similar to how Mesopotamia kings described their relationships with their patron Deities. The similarities are impossible to miss when you read the serious translations of some of the tablets.

By the way, some books do translations of the cuneiform script similar to a modern "annotated" Bible. If it takes ten words to explain the meaning of one word in Sumaria the translation will use the ten words.
 
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night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
"Having a Beer in Ur"

Tag-line in a fascinating little book Called "Roadmarks" by Zelazny.

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And, to limit my thread drift, George RR Martin is working on a TV adaptation for "Roadmarks" for HBO


"Having a Beer in Ur, indeed!"
 

mzkitty

I give up.
Well, the Old Testament says he was from "Ur of the Caldees," that's Sumerian. We couldn't resist having complaining letters from Lot about his taxes to King Gilgamesh when we wrote the novel together. When I had to deep dive into this period for it (with what we knew over 20 years ago) I was shocked at how "Mesopotamian" Abraham was (or was described to be).

Without turning this into a religion thread (I want to keep this one fun), even the descriptions of Abrahams's relationship with God are very similar to how Mesopotamia kings described their relationships with their patron Deities. The similarities are impossible to miss when you read the serious translations of some of the tablets.

By the way, some books do translations of the cuneiform script similar to a modern "annotated" Bible. If it takes ten words to explain the meaning of one word in Sumaria the translation will use the ten words.

Abraham wasn't a "Jew, Hebrew, Israelite" or whatever until he and his family left the area. They just believed in one god. Which no one else did, apparently.

:)
 

Matt

Veteran Member
Do you have anymore details on the refrigerator? I too live in a desert.... could prove useful in the near future... I assume some sort of wetted sand evaporation set up.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Any thoughts on the refrigeration system for the tavern??
Refrigeration is a tad difficult in that kind of desert
There are several ways. I don't pretend to understand them; my housemate is the engineer. But very early on, people in Mesopotamia (and Egypt) figured out how to use stone, cold water, and other forms of insulation to keep things chilled. Maybe not always as cold as a modern refrigerator, but cold enough for food or drinks to last for a week or three.

Also, the area that was part of Sumerian civilization (and their neighbors) is mostly desert today, but it wasn't five thousand years ago. Much of it was wild land that had to be irrigated for large-scale farming. But there were areas of forests, woodlands, gardens, and sprawling green fields. Many are now useless salt flats, having been over-irrigated for several thousand years by farmers who couldn't possibly know that at some point, large-scale farming on that type of soil (and with their water supply) would create one of the first known, verified, "ecological disasters.

When we wrote the Epic of Gilgamesh, I was surprised to find so many different geographies described. From terrifying mountains (Anunaki means the great forces of the earth like volcanoes, not aliens), what would later be called The Cedars of Lebanon, were all part of their known world and caravan routes.

Nights can get cold in this part of the world, especially at certain times of the year. The traditional "Persian Cats" have very long hair for a reason (because it is cold in the Zargros Mountains at night).

I've seen some "cold boxes" in prepping manuals that look similar to ancient "cool boxes" made of stone, and American settlers had "Spring Houses" using creeks and rivers to keep their dairy, cheese, and other foods cool in the Summers. The Mesopotamian had their rivers and irrigation systems to draw on.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Do you have anymore details on the refrigerator? I too live in a desert.... could prove useful in the near future... I assume some sort of wetted sand evaporation set up.
I think it is something like that, you need to find someone who knows more about archeological architecture and engineering. My housemate might know, she's a modern water treatment engineer with an interest in history (most of it more recent). I'll see if I can ask her when she gets home, she might at least know where to look for modern instructions.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Anybody checking to make sure the Irish were involved first. :p
Sadly things like beer don't keep very well in bogs, but we have "bog butter," where people forgot where they put their butter stash 2,000 years ago that has been found, along with bodies of some of the humans that ate butter.

One of my friends has been studying early Irish food and drink I'll see if I can ask her. Shellfish was popular, and the diet was much more interesting than the potatoes and cabbage the peasants got stuck with after the English took over. There was ale (the earliest beer is technically an ale, no hops), and a lot of the diet was dairy based. Hence all the finds of lost butter "dishes"...
 

bbbuddy

DEPLORABLE ME
It also gets pretty chilly at night in the desert so they may have had insulation for the daytime and open it up at night.

In that case the earliest drinkers get the coldest beer!

Ah, I see melodi beat me to it!
 

mzkitty

I give up.
Sadly things like beer don't keep very well in bogs, but we have "bog butter," where people forgot where they put their butter stash 2,000 years ago that has been found, along with bodies of some of the humans that ate butter.

One of my friends has been studying early Irish food and drink I'll see if I can ask her. Shellfish was popular, and the diet was much more interesting than the potatoes and cabbage the peasants got stuck with after the English took over. There was ale (the earliest beer is technically an ale, no hops), and a lot of the diet was dairy based. Hence all the finds of lost butter "dishes"...

You know the most interesting things, Melodi.

:)
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
Evaporation causes a cooling effect. THere's a video here (on on youtube)/.. well heck I'lll go find it....the guy who ;guerilla grazes' his sheep while just migrating across country and living out of TINY covered wagon. Cool set up in hot environments, and he keeps it in the shade. (Run time 26:19) but evaporative cooler made from sheep wool at 3:51.
View: https://youtu.be/U54HRmglYEA?t=228


Another youtube i've linked to here before but is uber relevant "How beer saved the world." It's definitely worth a watch sometime! (One hour and twelve minutes)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcLasNk4i-c&t=44s


And "Beer wars" -I cant find the full movie on youtube, but here's the 2 minute trailer:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3gDD0_L2zY
 

mzkitty

I give up.
"Useless" degrees in history and archeology/anthropology. I never stopped being interested and my major professor did much of his fieldwork in Iran, Iraq, Turkey, and Romania.

I think you're great. In fact, you and Summerthyme are extremely knowledgeable on a vast array of subjects (among others here, of course). So much I'd never have known if it weren't for being a member here.

:)
 

West

Senior
Any thoughts on the refrigeration system for the tavern??
Refrigeration is a tad difficult in that kind of desert

If the humidity was low, evaporating water can remove heat. Also at night most deserts get really cold at night. Get the slaves to drag huge rocks into the desert at night. Then before sunrise move them into the cold room. There's also a way to make ice at night by evaporation as well. Bit more technical but doable with out the use of grid power or Chinese freezers. :D
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
If the humidity was low, evaporating water can remove heat. Also at night most deserts get really cold at night. Get the slaves to drag huge rocks into the desert at night. Then before sunrise move them into the cold room. There's also a way to make ice at night by evaporation as well. Bit more technical but doable with out the use of grid power or Chinese freezers. :D
I have a vague memory that at least by the later period, they were using the evaporation method, and they may have been doing it earlier. I hope someone who understands this better can find out.

On topics I do know about, my two favorite letters from this time period (5,000 years ago) are more or less like this (humans don't change much and these people were literate).

The first one is from a student studying away from home:

"Hi Mom, Hi Dad. How are you? I am fine. Please send money."

The Second from a Husband writing from hundreds of miles away on a caravan trading expedition,

"Dearest Wife, please send clean shirts. I need you to send them right away as I have no clean shirts."
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Any thoughts on the refrigeration system for the tavern??
Refrigeration is a tad difficult in that kind of desert

There's a thread here about ancient refrigeration and freezers in Iran and Iraq here on TB somewhere. It's pretty interesting how they built the ice houses to keep stuff cold in the desert.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
ANSWERS! We have an ANSWER - from a friend who is both an engineer and has a degree in anthropology. Here is how you build a 5,000 old fridge (or keep your beer cold in parts of Arizona or New Mexico).

"
On "Refrigeration in a desert:"

Make a well-insulated pit.

Cover during the day and uncover after dark. The heat in the pit will radiate away.

This only works with near-zero relative humidity. Water vapor is a very good heat blocker. Heat will not radiate from a pit to outer space with as much as 5% RH. "
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
By the way, this story was also published this week in a major professional journal of archeology so everyone is talking about it.
 

Old Greek

Veteran Member
Sadly things like beer don't keep very well in bogs, but we have "bog butter," where people forgot where they put their butter stash 2,000 years ago that has been found, along with bodies of some of the humans that ate butter.

One of my friends has been studying early Irish food and drink I'll see if I can ask her. Shellfish was popular, and the diet was much more interesting than the potatoes and cabbage the peasants got stuck with after the English took over. There was ale (the earliest beer is technically an ale, no hops), and a lot of the diet was dairy based. Hence all the finds of lost butter "dishes"...
interesting - love history - thanks.
 
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