EBOLA 4 Reasons Why this ER Doc is "Terrified."

R.Tist

Membership Revoked
Dr. Brett Belchetz, Canadian Emergency Room Physician.

4 Reasons This ER Physician Is Dead Scared of Our Ebola Response

Posted: 10/13/2014 11:39 am EDT Updated: 10/14/2014 11:23 am EDT

Statistically, when it comes to more Ebola cases arriving in North America, the question is not if, but when.

The CDC estimates that by January of 2015, there will be up to 1.4-million cases of Ebola in Western Africa. With over 100,000 residents here that hail from the affected countries of Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea, travel between our geographies is common, and often only one airport connection away. Ebola has an incubation period of up to 21 days before symptoms appear, meaning that those who are infected will often feel completely well, and therefore safe to travel here to visit friends and relatives. Thus, many patients, similar to what occurred in the case of Thomas Duncan in Dallas, will only manifest illness well after their arrival on our shores. With over a million people likely to be infected within the next three months, and with so many of those remaining asymptomatic for weeks after their infection, it is almost statistically inevitable that we will have multiple, repeated cases of infected patients making their way here, unaware of their illness until it is too late.

Current airport and hospital screening is essentially useless.

Current screening at our airports and hospitals relies on identification of two traits: a fever and a documented history of travel to affected countries. Fever is easily masked by medications such as acetaminophen and ibuprofen, and while it is difficult for visitors to lie about their travel history at airports, doing so at a hospital is easy and common. I can personally attest to the fact that patients infected with deadly viruses lie about their travel history, having been exposed to SARS in 2003 by a patient of mine that lied about his travel to an affected location, and thus misled me into believing he suffered only from a common flu.

Given that Thomas Duncan, who passed away from Ebola in Dallas, lied about his Ebola exposure before travel to the United States, it appears that similar dishonesty will be common in this outbreak as well. For these reasons, in addition to Ebola's long incubation period, our current screening techniques will miss a very significant percentage of infected travellers, and achieve little more than public reassurance.

Our experiences to date show that the average hospital is not adequately prepared to safely treat the illness, and that health care workers are at risk.

Since the start of this outbreak, we have had two transmissions occur in hospitals outside of Africa to health care workers, one in Spain and one in Dallas, both due to staff who apparently breached safety protocols. However, donning and removing the full body protective gear required to safely care for an Ebola patient is an elaborate process, and one that the average health care worker receives minimal training in. I, myself, while familiar with the gear used, have never had any hands-on training as to the proper way to use such equipment for this virus. As a frontline Emergency Room physician, given that I am one of the most likely health care workers to encounter this illness firsthand, this terrifies me. Were an Ebola patient to arrive at my hospital tomorrow, I do not feel confident in my ability to put on, use, and take off protective gear in a manner that is foolproof.

In its earliest days, Ebola is indistinguishable from the flu.

In Ebola's later stages, it is distinctive from other flu-like illnesses by its severity of symptoms, its high mortality rate (greater than 70 per cent), and its classic hemorrhagic manifestations, with patients often bleeding from their mouths, noses, and internal organs. However, at the onset of disease, the symptoms of Ebola are completely non-specific and flu-like: usually fever, muscle aches, headache, sore throat, vomiting and diarrhea. These are symptoms I see on a regular basis in my ER throughout the year. So should we ever have a widespread outbreak, with travel history becoming unnecessary for exposure, it will be near impossible for frontline physicians such as myself to distinguish patients with early Ebola from patients with the common flu. Such a situation would make the safe practice of frontline medicine near impossible, something I fear to imagine the consequences of.

So, what next?

While I still believe there is no cause for a general panic over Ebola, I feel that the approach being taken at present by our public health authorities is overconfident, dogmatic, and inflexible, with an unwillingness to consider that current containment measures may not be adequate. As a front line health care worker, I feel that my own safety is already at risk, and I can only hope that not very many more of us in my profession have to become ill in order for our governments to recognize that, in the setting of one of the largest disease outbreaks in modern history, plans limited to questionnaires and thermometers at airports may be far from sufficient to protect us.
 

ncmissouri

Veteran Member
And I feel the Lord is helping us already by raising our awareness. It could be the whole pandemic thing is a test, a trial, with a beginning and an end.
 

doctor_fungcool

TB Fanatic
Dr. Brett Belchetz, Canadian Emergency Room Physician.

4 Reasons This ER Physician Is Dead Scared of Our Ebola Response

Posted: 10/13/2014 11:39 am EDT Updated: 10/14/2014 11:23 am EDT

Statistically, when it comes to more Ebola cases arriving in North America, the question is not if, but when.

The CDC estimates that by January of 2015, there will be up to 1.4-million cases of Ebola in Western Africa. With over 100,000 residents here that hail from the affected countries of Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea, travel between our geographies is common, and often only one airport connection away. Ebola has an incubation period of up to 21 days before symptoms appear, meaning that those who are infected will often feel completely well, and therefore safe to travel here to visit friends and relatives. Thus, many patients, similar to what occurred in the case of Thomas Duncan in Dallas, will only manifest illness well after their arrival on our shores. With over a million people likely to be infected within the next three months, and with so many of those remaining asymptomatic for weeks after their infection, it is almost statistically inevitable that we will have multiple, repeated cases of infected patients making their way here, unaware of their illness until it is too late.

Current airport and hospital screening is essentially useless.

Current screening at our airports and hospitals relies on identification of two traits: a fever and a documented history of travel to affected countries. Fever is easily masked by medications such as acetaminophen and ibuprofen, and while it is difficult for visitors to lie about their travel history at airports, doing so at a hospital is easy and common. I can personally attest to the fact that patients infected with deadly viruses lie about their travel history, having been exposed to SARS in 2003 by a patient of mine that lied about his travel to an affected location, and thus misled me into believing he suffered only from a common flu.

Given that Thomas Duncan, who passed away from Ebola in Dallas, lied about his Ebola exposure before travel to the United States, it appears that similar dishonesty will be common in this outbreak as well. For these reasons, in addition to Ebola's long incubation period, our current screening techniques will miss a very significant percentage of infected travellers, and achieve little more than public reassurance.

Our experiences to date show that the average hospital is not adequately prepared to safely treat the illness, and that health care workers are at risk.

Since the start of this outbreak, we have had two transmissions occur in hospitals outside of Africa to health care workers, one in Spain and one in Dallas, both due to staff who apparently breached safety protocols. However, donning and removing the full body protective gear required to safely care for an Ebola patient is an elaborate process, and one that the average health care worker receives minimal training in. I, myself, while familiar with the gear used, have never had any hands-on training as to the proper way to use such equipment for this virus. As a frontline Emergency Room physician, given that I am one of the most likely health care workers to encounter this illness firsthand, this terrifies me. Were an Ebola patient to arrive at my hospital tomorrow, I do not feel confident in my ability to put on, use, and take off protective gear in a manner that is foolproof.

In its earliest days, Ebola is indistinguishable from the flu.

In Ebola's later stages, it is distinctive from other flu-like illnesses by its severity of symptoms, its high mortality rate (greater than 70 per cent), and its classic hemorrhagic manifestations, with patients often bleeding from their mouths, noses, and internal organs. However, at the onset of disease, the symptoms of Ebola are completely non-specific and flu-like: usually fever, muscle aches, headache, sore throat, vomiting and diarrhea. These are symptoms I see on a regular basis in my ER throughout the year. So should we ever have a widespread outbreak, with travel history becoming unnecessary for exposure, it will be near impossible for frontline physicians such as myself to distinguish patients with early Ebola from patients with the common flu. Such a situation would make the safe practice of frontline medicine near impossible, something I fear to imagine the consequences of.

So, what next?

While I still believe there is no cause for a general panic over Ebola, I feel that the approach being taken at present by our public health authorities is overconfident, dogmatic, and inflexible, with an unwillingness to consider that current containment measures may not be adequate. As a front line health care worker, I feel that my own safety is already at risk, and I can only hope that not very many more of us in my profession have to become ill in order for our governments to recognize that, in the setting of one of the largest disease outbreaks in modern history, plans limited to questionnaires and thermometers at airports may be far from sufficient to protect us.

Between Obama care, and the Ebola scare, it would be wise to use the hospital only as a last resort.
Hmmmm.....that rhymes......weird.
 

DHR43

Since 2001
"...and I can only hope that not very many more of us in my profession have to become ill in order for our governments to recognize that, in the setting of one of the largest disease outbreaks in modern history, plans limited to questionnaires and thermometers at airports may be far from sufficient to protect us."

He wants governments to protect him (and us)? Wow. Talk about looking in the wrong direction.

Oh, and another thing. He's a ER physician and doesn't know how to put on and take off the suits? Could he, perhaps (I'm stretching a bit here, considering he's a health-care worker), find the suit up and suit down protocol and learn on his own? Could he then get a group of his ER friends together and teach them? Maybe together they could figure out how to use the equipment?

Or does he need the government or other 'authorities' to take him by the hand?
 

Adino

paradigm shaper
the oligarchy is the root of the problem not guv

the oligarchy wants you to think guv is the problem and ignore that there even is an oligarchy

if the oligarchy is invisible they can go thru people in guv or even the guv itself like clothes in a wardrobe

once one outfit is too filthy to keep on it can be discarded and a new outfit can be donned

and the oligarchy, if left intact, gets to pick every wardrobe they want for the next phase of the party
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Oh, and another thing. He's a ER physician and doesn't know how to put on and take off the suits? Could he, perhaps (I'm stretching a bit here, considering he's a health-care worker), find the suit up and suit down protocol and learn on his own? Could he then get a group of his ER friends together and teach them? Maybe together they could figure out how to use the equipment?

Or does he need the government or other 'authorities' to take him by the hand?

Working 24, 36 or 48 hour shifts he PROBABLY wants someone to find him the TIME to learn. Cause right now he's got a lot of time tied up in sleeping.
 

R.Tist

Membership Revoked
"...and I can only hope that not very many more of us in my profession have to become ill in order for our governments to recognize that, in the setting of one of the largest disease outbreaks in modern history, plans limited to questionnaires and thermometers at airports may be far from sufficient to protect us."

He wants governments to protect him (and us)? Wow. Talk about looking in the wrong direction.

Oh, and another thing. He's a ER physician and doesn't know how to put on and take off the suits? Could he, perhaps (I'm stretching a bit here, considering he's a health-care worker), find the suit up and suit down protocol and learn on his own? Could he then get a group of his ER friends together and teach them? Maybe together they could figure out how to use the equipment?

Or does he need the government or other 'authorities' to take him by the hand?

He's one of the leading physicians in the world, DHR. He's on many advisory boards and certainly knows what he's doing. The fact is: no one who works in an urban hospital (and isn't an in-the-field member of USAMRID) has ever had to deal with a Level IV bio-hazard before, and it takes more than a moment to learn. Already we've had many false alarms, as Ebola comes disguised as the flu initially. I'm a doctor and I'd be scared too if I were practicing in a hospital setting!


Artie.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Already we've had many false alarms, as Ebola comes disguised as the flu initially. I'm a doctor and I'd be scared too if I were practicing in a hospital setting!


Artie.

Bingo!! I do have a lot of the training even though my equipment is now somewhat limited and I know that if you make one little mistake it can have fatal consequences. It takes a long time to go through the military schools to learn how to conduct decontamination operations in such an environment and that is a concern that the military has for it's soldiers as well and is comparable to medical.

The NBC officers and NCO's are trained to do these things. The average soldier wears the gear a few times a year and has a little bit of training that has to be fit into the training cycle of everything else he/she has to exhibit proficiency in. Small, specialized teams that spend a great deal of time with the equipment and procedures are safe. Every one else is at risk. The medical professionals simply don't have the time or in many cases even the resources to practice and implement these procedures because they already have to cram 36 hours into a 24 hour day. Considering all the challenges of operating in an austere environment those health care workers in Africa are doing remarkably well and it's pretty amazing that only 300 or so of them have died so far.
 

Mulder

Contributing Member
I'm a doctor and I'd be scared too if I were practicing in a hospital setting!

Artie.
O care or E care... That's a pretty dismal choice for doctors. It makes me grateful that I don't work in the medical profession. Although the fact that two of our neighbors are nurses now has me slightly concerned.
 

NC Susan

Deceased
Ovomit just sent 4000 Guinea pig Army 101st Airborne troops to Africa to test vaccines. Should they contact ebola then they will be test cases for antidotes and procedures.

Pray for your paratroopers please
 

celtic-cat

Senior Member
"...and I can only hope that not very many more of us in my profession have to become ill in order for our governments to recognize that, in the setting of one of the largest disease outbreaks in modern history, plans limited to questionnaires and thermometers at airports may be far from sufficient to protect us."

He wants governments to protect him (and us)? Wow. Talk about looking in the wrong direction.

Oh, and another thing. He's a ER physician and doesn't know how to put on and take off the suits? Could he, perhaps (I'm stretching a bit here, considering he's a health-care worker), find the suit up and suit down protocol and learn on his own? Could he then get a group of his ER friends together and teach them? Maybe together they could figure out how to use the equipment?

Or does he need the government or other 'authorities' to take him by the hand?

HCWs learning on their own, on the job, teaching each other......that is how the two nurses got Ebola. Hospitals have not been given adequate guidance by the CDC, hospitals do not have adequate equipment, hospitals have not provided training to their employees. On top of all of that, CDC has called for level 2 protection against a level 4 contagion.

Biohazard suit-ups are not really something that you want your local ER to learn on the fly. Not if you would like to actually live.
 

frazbo

Veteran Member
Watched Outbreak yesterday, refresher course. Then turned reg tv on and there pops up Obola saying we can't stop the flights from these countries because it would make matters worse instead of better. What timing. What I said in response in my house is not something I can say on the board...but use your imagination...it wasn't pretty.

All you health care workers, whatever field you're in...PLEASE take care of yourselves FIRST! Got it?
 

rummer

Veteran Member
"...and I can only hope that not very many more of us in my profession have to become ill in order for our governments to recognize that, in the setting of one of the largest disease outbreaks in modern history, plans limited to questionnaires and thermometers at airports may be far from sufficient to protect us."

He wants governments to protect him (and us)? Wow. Talk about looking in the wrong direction.

Oh, and another thing. He's a ER physician and doesn't know how to put on and take off the suits? Could he, perhaps (I'm stretching a bit here, considering he's a health-care worker), find the suit up and suit down protocol and learn on his own? Could he then get a group of his ER friends together and teach them? Maybe together they could figure out how to use the equipment?

Or does he need the government or other 'authorities' to take him by the hand?

Correct, hazmat gear and general hospital PPE gear are completely different.
 

Dosadi

Brown Coat
I keep hearing Oligarchy, I even have a mental list that might be part of this mysterious "them".

Is there anyone / any place that actually lists and points the finger at all the known members of this oligarchy.

The first step to defeating an enemy is to identify it.
 

Freeholder

This too shall pass.
The danger to health-care workers is what I see as the biggest problem from ebola in this country. Our entire health-care system could end up paralyzed or completely shut down as a result of just a few confirmed cases. Those of us who seldom see the doctor for anything may think that wouldn't affect us too much, but the ripple effects would damage every part of our economy, including transportation of necessary goods like food, and the situation would also be ripe for government intervention, which would inevitably make things worse.

Kathleen
 

Dphintias

Veteran Member
"...and I can only hope that not very many more of us in my profession have to become ill in order for our governments to recognize that, in the setting of one of the largest disease outbreaks in modern history, plans limited to questionnaires and thermometers at airports may be far from sufficient to protect us."

He wants governments to protect him (and us)? Wow. Talk about looking in the wrong direction.

Oh, and another thing. He's a ER physician and doesn't know how to put on and take off the suits? Could he, perhaps (I'm stretching a bit here, considering he's a health-care worker), find the suit up and suit down protocol and learn on his own? Could he then get a group of his ER friends together and teach them? Maybe together they could figure out how to use the equipment?

Or does he need the government or other 'authorities' to take him by the hand?

DHR43 - Are you forgetting that health care in Canada is run completely by the GOVERNMENT (with minor exceptions). Unlike the States at the moment, we do not have major private hospitals which are paid in the main by insurance companies (except for the poor and elderly). Dallas Presbyterian is a huge private hospital and look what happened. Also, you should be aware that our (Canadian) health care resources are stretched already to the limit. There is not a lot of extra cash in the budget to cover this kind of extraordinary care for very long. And I, for one, do not want to see a huge hike in our taxes to pay for the care of foreign nationals. As for all our HCWs, it is unconscionable to put them in harm's way without doing everything possible to ensure that this disease remains off shore. If we start having cases here, believe me the consequences will not be pretty, and we will all be heading for the hills. Well, I will anyway.
 

IdahoMom

Contributing Member
Thomas Eric Duncan's hospital bill was reportedly in the $500,000 range. To have the appropriate PPE level 4 equipment, the training etc given to all doctors and nurses and the appropriate isolation rooms built to specifications is going to raise that bill quite a lot per person. If you were a hospital whose rates had already been cut to the bone by Medicare, Medicaid and ObamaCare, how much money would you be willing to invest to care for foreign nationals with no insurance? How many foreign nationals with Ebola and no insurance would it take to go through your doors before your hospital was a ghost town ala Texas Presby and you couldn't even afford wages or supplies? As a doctor or nurse who is already worked to the bone and probably not given a pay raise in years due to our economy, it has got to be in the back of your mind. Why should this infected person from a strange country take precedence over your own patients/practice? Not saying they would ever turn someone away but really why shouldn't they? They know right out the gate as soon as they diagnose someone, that someone has a 70 or 80 percent chance of dying anyway. Is this really how hospitals need to use their limited resources? Going bankrupt on Ebola patients? I really think by the time all the African patients get through our hospital resources and this infection is out, we are going to be on our own. We all know Medicare, Medicaid and ObamaCare is not going to pay the $500,000 plus bills United States citizens are going to need paid. More than likely the hospitals will be totally shutdown before any of us even make it in there. We are on our own folks.
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
My friend went for a lithotropsy (to break up a kidney stone) Friday. Where she lives in another state, the doctor's office that was to do ir was across the street from what looked like a large modern hospital. She asked the people in the doctor's office WHY there were NO CARS there. The receptionist said "iT IS A LARGE MODERN HOSPITAL, but it DID NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY, SO THE INVESTORS SHUT IT DOWN!! THAT is all it boils down to, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS in the decision making, SO, if Ebola treatment and care proves unprofitable, look for such PRIVATE HOSPITALS TO SHUT DOWN OR REFUSE CARE and the investors to put their hospital investment dollars into pork bellies or some other higher return money machine!
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
It is October 19, 2014. There are STILL large hospitals with NO HAZMAT SUITS, NO TRAINING on how to use them, if they had them.

Their ER staff (TRIAGE ) ARE STILL EXPECTED to first encounter the feverish, SICK, utter stranger, to ask them about their travel history while wearing NO PPE, medical personal protective equipment beyond SHORT, THIN, REGULAR RUBBER gloves! THERE ARE NO "hazmat SUITS." And no PPE, BEYOND GLOVES, IS NORMALLY WORN FOR TRIAGE.

Night before last, elderly man comes in with nosebleed. When he is triaged it all looks ok, minor nosebleed that won't stop because he is on blood thinners. This occurs within a few feet of others in waiting room. Suddenly he "crashes", his nose is pouring blood, he vomits blood all over, his blood pressure drops, he begins thrashing and moving ABOUT, BLOOD IS ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE, BLOCKING foot travel, IN TRIAGE, IN WAITING ROOM, so it HAS to be walked through, she can't exit to put on more PPE without leaving him and can't leave him because he just passed out cold, others come to help and he is given 2 units of blood to revive him, BUT she has blood/vomit all over her clothes, shoes, skin etc. She is furious that she is expected to work under those conditions.
What if it had been an old black man, who crashed BEFORE he could be asked his contacts and travel history? AND WHAT IF THIS HAD ACTUALLY BEEN AN EBOLA INFECTED ER PATIENT? She would be "walking dead". The present "system" ASKS TOO MUCH FROM MEDICAL STAFF!!

There should be full PPE (hazmat suit or else have someone in a totally enclosed glass booth OUTSIDE THE ER, to screen ALL PATIENTS for travel/contact history and symptoms before they can enter the ER, they can "buzz unlock" the ER DOOR for "no ebola threat" patients) and rerouting "Suspect Ebola" patients to staff who THEN HAVE NOTICE AND FIRST GET INTO higher PPE hazmat suits TO TRIAGE THEM!

The glass "screening booth could actually be a protruding part of the ER OPEN ON THAT SIDE, AND either be made a part of the internal ER receptionists DUTIES, OR ELSE BE MANNED BY TRAINED VOLUNTEERS.
 
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Dphintias

Veteran Member
It is October 19, 2014. There are STILL large hospitals with NO HAZMAT SUITS, NO TRAINING on how to use them, if they had them.

Their ER staff (TRIAGE ) ARE STILL EXPECTED to first encounter the feverish, SICK, utter stranger, to ask them about their travel history while wearing NO PPE, medical personal protective equipment beyond SHORT, THIN, REGULAR RUBBER gloves! THERE ARE NO "hazmat SUITS." And no PPE, BEYOND GLOVES, IS NORMALLY WORN FOR TRIAGE.

Night before last, elderly man comes in with nosebleed. When he is triaged it all looks ok, minor nosebleed that won't stop because he is on blood thinners. This occurs within a few feet of others in waiting room. Suddenly he "crashes", his nose is pouring blood, he vomits blood all over, his blood pressure drops, he begins thrashing and moving ABOUT, BLOOD IS ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE, BLOCKING foot travel, IN TRIAGE, IN WAITING ROOM, so it HAS to be walked through, she can't exit to put on more PPE without leaving him and can't leave him because he just passed out cold, others come to help and he is given 2 units of blood to revive him, BUT she has blood/vomit all over her clothes, shoes, skin etc. She is furious that she is expected to work under those conditions.
What if it had been an old black man, who crashed BEFORE he could be asked his contacts and travel history? AND WHAT IF THIS HAD ACTUALLY BEEN AN EBOLA INFECTED ER PATIENT? She would be "walking dead". The present "system" ASKS TOO MUCH FROM MEDICAL STAFF!!

There should be full PPE (hazmat suit or else have someone in a totally enclosed glass booth OUTSIDE THE ER, to screen ALL PATIENTS for travel/contact history and symptoms before they can enter the ER, they can "buzz unlock" the ER DOOR for "no ebola threat" patients) and rerouting "Suspect Ebola" patients to staff who THEN HAVE NOTICE AND FIRST GET INTO higher PPE hazmat suits TO TRIAGE THEM!

Well said. This is the problem confronting medical staff everywhere and certainly in North America. I am a cautious person by nature and many who know me would say I'm over cautious but I would not be able to deal with the situation above described. If I worked in that field, I would have to find another position that did not put me in the direct line of fire. It's insane to expect that our HC professionals will continue to put themselves and their families in jeopardy. The solution described above is the only rational approach in a hospital/clinic setting.
 

USDA

Veteran Member
Not saying they would ever turn someone away but really why shouldn't they?

Of course they would...it is called 'Triage'. Like in desperate situations...divide between those, who will survive without treatment (for awhile anyway); those who will die, no matter what is done (or eat up too many resources) and those in the middle...that can be possibly saved by prompt action. Viral plagues make it more difficult, but there will be those who can be treated and those who will be turned away. That is a fact of life.
 

cjoi

Veteran Member
Our experiences to date show that the average hospital is not adequately prepared to safely treat the illness, and that health care workers are at risk.

Guess it took the wild red bolding and emphasis to make me realize what a diabolical thing it would be to take out the HCWs leaving no help for anyone exposed. Rather like an intentional strategy we've seen before - waiting for first responders to reach intentionally wounded or arson fires then taking out the first responders, too. This greatly amplifies the degree of damage achieved.

There should be full PPE (hazmat suit or else have someone in a totally enclosed glass booth OUTSIDE THE ER, to screen ALL PATIENTS for travel/contact history and symptoms before they can enter the ER, they can "buzz unlock" the ER DOOR for "no ebola threat" patients) and rerouting "Suspect Ebola" patients to staff who THEN HAVE NOTICE AND FIRST GET INTO higher PPE hazmat suits TO TRIAGE THEM!

The glass "screening booth could actually be a protruding part of the ER OPEN ON THAT SIDE, AND either be made a part of the internal ER receptionists DUTIES, OR ELSE BE MANNED BY TRAINED VOLUNTEERS.

Ainitfunny, I'm a fan. Once again your uncommon Commonsense presents a winning solution to a situation we've all been looking at namely (unprotected triage) and how to accomplish the same while protecting the HCW.
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Ainitfunny, I'm a fan. Once again your uncommon Commonsense presents a winning solution to a situation we've all been looking at namely (unprotected triage) and how to accomplish the same while protecting the HCW.

Thanks. The problem (as I saw it) was to ONLY screen incoming patients for potential Ebola exposure WITHOUT incurring the excessive expense of Level 3 or Level 4 PPE Hazmat suits for those screeners yet letting them do that job with NO danger to them, AND to try to avoid the expense and necessity entirely BECAUSE the suits are so hot that workers would not be able to work an 8 hour shift in them. My idea accomplishes the same thing with NO EXPENSE for PPE.
 
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R.Tist

Membership Revoked
Thanks. The problem (as I saw it) was to ONLY screen incoming patients for potential Ebola exposure WITHOUT incurring the excessive expense of Level 3 or Level 4 PPE Hazmat suits for those screeners yet letting them do that job with NO danger to them, AND to try to avoid the expense and necessity entirely BECAUSE the suits are so hot that workers would not be able to work an 8 hour shift in them. My idea accomplishes the same thing with NO EXPENSE for PPE.

Ain't!

I'm a fan too, but how do you expect a physician or nurse in any hospital to evaluate a patient presenting flu-like symptoms ('Ebola initially presents exactly the same as flu')?

It takes DAYS or WEEKS to rule out Ebola in a patient with flu-like symptoms, so what you're suggesting would be pointless.

See why the docs and other HCW's are 'terrified'?


Artie.
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
Ain't!

I'm a fan too, but how do you expect a physician or nurse in any hospital to evaluate a patient presenting flu-like symptoms ('Ebola initially presents exactly the same as flu')?

It takes DAYS or WEEKS to rule out Ebola in a patient with flu-like symptoms, so what you're suggesting would be pointless.

See why the docs and other HCW's are 'terrified'?


Artie.

You are confused. What I proposed (a glass enclosed booth next to the ER DOOR to interview those wishing entrance, open on the ER side) is NOT to TRIAGE OR TREAT POTENTIAL PATIENTS!
It is to simply weed out the EXTREMELY FEW "potentially Ebola exposed" patients (by asking them questions about their travel or exposure to others who traveled to W Africa, or any other Ebola "hot zone" or whether they were exposed to a person who could be sick with Ebola) and redirect them to a bench to wait for hazmat suited people who will accompany them to a "suspect Ebola patient receiving area", NOT THE ER)

MY idea has NOTHING to do with "Triaging" patients, it takes only a minute or two to ask the questions and does not even require a highly trained person to sift the incoming ER patients and redirect the potentially Ebola exposed ones. It costs virtually nothing beyond remodeling the ER entrance to include the glass booth by the door and equip it with a microphone and a button to "buzz in" regular, non-ebola exposed patients. OF COURSE the Ebola patient could lie, but at that point there is nothing gained by the patient by lying.
 
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R.Tist

Membership Revoked
You are confused. What I proposed (a glass enclosed booth next to the ER DOOR to interview those wishing entrance, open on the ER side) is NOT to TRIAGE OR TREAT POTENTIAL PATIENTS!
It is to simply weed out the EXTREMELY FEW "potentially Ebola exposed" patients and redirect them to a bench to wait for hazmat suited people who will accompany them to a "suspect Ebola patient receiving area", NOT THE ER)

MY idea has NOTHING to do with "Triaging" patients, it takes only a minute or two and does not require a highly trained person to ask the questions and sift the incoming ER patients to redirect the potentially Ebola exposed ones. It costs virtually nothing beyond remodeling the ER entrance to include the glass booth by the door and equip it with a microphone and a button to "buzz in" regular, non-ebola exposed patients. OF COURSE the Ebola patient could lie, but at that point there is nothing gained by the patient by lying.

I'm not confused, Ain't, but the Internet isn't the best medium for correctly expressing one's thoughts, obviously.

I didn't mention 'Triage.'

What I said (in essence) is that there is simply NO WAY to determine whether a person has the Ebola virus or just the flu in the setting you suggest and in the time frame you suggest.

Happy to agree to differ if you see this in another light.


Artie.
 

Ben Sunday

Deceased
The danger to health-care workers is what I see as the biggest problem from ebola in this country. Our entire health-care system could end up paralyzed or completely shut down as a result of just a few confirmed cases. Those of us who seldom see the doctor for anything may think that wouldn't affect us too much, but the ripple effects would damage every part of our economy, including transportation of necessary goods like food, and the situation would also be ripe for government intervention, which would inevitably make things worse.

Kathleen

A very sharp and important observation. Deficiences or shortfalls anywhere along the line can only detract from care and reduce both the quality and quantity of whatever services would otherwise be available.

This is another excellent reason to deeply consider the failures and shortcomings built into Obamacare. The effluvia striking those fan blades can only exacerbate an already frightening problem. In addition, the question of Ebola being brought to the USA willfully and deliberately under the auspices of Obamacare and specifically for his personal, political gain, is, well, too dark to consider rationally in view of current events.

Everything and everyone is a potential loser.

Thanks for the original comment.
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
It takes DAYS or WEEKS to rule out Ebola in a patient with flu-like symptoms, so what you're suggesting would be pointless.
After the patient asserts no Ebola exposure, The medical staff certainly do not even consider Ebola, let alone spend any time, money or effort to "rule it out" in the run of the mill patients with flu or other symptoms.
IF (by the interview questions) the patient cites no potential exposure to Ebola then they are treated as ordinary medical cases according to their symptoms.

At this point, Ebola is so rare that it has to be "ruled in" to the possible diagnosis by the exposure questions. But it is so deadly that screening must be done for it, to exclude potential cases and allow a normal, stress free flow of ordinary treatment to continue.
 
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