WAR 06/23 to 06/29 TheWinds0fWAR***

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 22, 2012

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(14)05/24 to 05/30 ***The***Winds***of***WAR***
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...***of***WAR***

(15)05/31 to 06/06 ***The***Winds***of***WAR***
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...***of***WAR***

(16)06/07 to 06/14 ***The***Winds***of***WAR***
http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...***of***WAR***

(17)http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showthread.php?406640-06-15-to-06-22-***The***Winds***of***WAR

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June 22, 2012 5:20 PM

Turkey says Syria shot down its air force jet

(AP GraphicsBank)
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57459134/turkey-says-syria-shot-down-its-air-force-jet/

(CBS/AP) ANKARA, Turkey - Turkey says its air force jet that disappeared over the Mediterranean Sea was shot down by Syria, in an action likely to worsen already strained relations between the neighboring countries.

A statement following a two-hour security meeting led by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the warplane that went missing near Syria earlier Friday was downed by Syrian forces and that the two Turkish pilots remain missing. It said Turkey "will determinedly take necessary steps" in response, without saying what they would be.

CBS News correspondent David Martin reported U.S. officials confirmed that Syrian air defenses shot down a Turkish jet off the coast of Syria. The circumstances of the incident remain unclear. The jet - a Vietnam-era F-4 - was supposed to be on a routine training mission over the eastern Mediterranean.

As earlier reported, Turkish and Syrian vessels were searching for the plane -- which the media identified as an F-4 -- and its two pilots, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told a nationally televised news conference.

Turkey has joined nations such as the United States in saying that Syrian President Bashar Assad should step down because of the uprising in his country that has killed thousands of people. Turkey also has set up refugee camps on its border for more than 32,000 Syrians who have fled the fighting. That situation generated media speculation on Friday about what the Turkish plane was doing over Syrian territory and whether Syria had shot it down, then apologized.

"I cannot say it was downed, without definite information. It is not possible to say that," Erdogan said earlier of the plane. He also said he could not confirm that Syria had apologized. The prime minister held his news conference after returning Friday from a visit to Mexico and Brazil.

Erdogan confirmed that the plane went down in the Mediterranean Sea about 8 miles (13 kilometers) away from the Syrian town of Latakia. "Four of our gunboats and some Syrian gunboats are carrying out a joint search there," he said.

Erdogan, citing lack of information, said he could not say why the Turkish plane was flying in that area. He said a detailed statement might be issued later Friday following a security meeting with Cabinet ministers and military leaders. The meeting was originally called to discuss intensified Kurdish rebel attacks in Turkey.

In Lebanon, Hezbollah's Manar TV reported that Syrian forces shot down the Turkish plane, citing unidentified Syrian security sources. Hezbollah is closely allied with Syria, but the report could not be confirmed.

The Turkish jet disappeared southwest of the Turkish province of Hatay, which borders Syria, Gov. Ulvi Saran of the southern province of Malatya told Turkey's state-run Anadolu Agency. He said it had taken off from a military air base in Malatya.

The military said the plane disappeared from its radar and that radio contact was lost at 11:58 a.m. (0958GMT) Friday during a mission flight.

Some eyewitnesses in a seaside area of Hatay province told private NTV television that the plane was flying so low they thought it would "hit the roofs." They said the plane then flew toward the sea.

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 22, 2012

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Riyadh paying Free Syrian Army salaries

Published: June 22, 2012 at 5:23 PM
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...Free-Syrian-Army-salaries/UPI-45011340400209/

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, June 22 (UPI) -- Saudi Arabia is providing funds to the Free Syria Army to encourage mass defections from Bashar Assad's military, The Guardian reported Friday.

Saudi Arabia's financial support of the FSA complements Turkish efforts to supply weapons to Syrian rebels, the British newspaper said.

As many as 22 Syrian nationals are operating a command center in Istanbul, Turkey, to facilitate the flow of weapons to the Syrian opposition. Combined with the Saudi funds, the support is breathing new life into the rebels, whose efforts to bring down Assad looked near an end just six weeks ago, The Guardian said.

Rebels are also receiving a steady stream of ammunition and medical supplies from Turkey.

U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman, Ind-Conn., has been at the forefront of the renewed push to help the rebels.

"Senator Lieberman has called for the U.S. to provide robust and comprehensive support to the armed Syrian opposition, in co-ordination with our partners in the Middle East and Europe," Lieberman's spokesman said. "He has specifically called for the U.S. to work with our partners to provide the armed Syrian opposition with weapons, training, tactical intelligence, secure communications and other forms of support to change the military balance of power inside Syria.

"Senator Lieberman also supports the idea of ensuring that the armed opposition fighters receive regular and sufficient pay, although he does not believe it is necessary for the United States to provide this funding itself directly."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...my-salaries/UPI-45011340400209/#ixzz1yYxKCN8a

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 22, 2012

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Russia warns that Iran nuclear
talks too slow to forestall conflict

Russian is uniquely placed to mediate between Iran and world powers, but analysts
say Moscow's role is limited in part by a lack of compromise from Washington and Tehran.

By Scott Peterson, Staff writer / June 22, 2012
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...eds/world+(Christian+Science+Monitor+|+World)

Moscow

Although progress was made at Iran nuclear talks in Moscow this week, Russian analysts are concerned that the pace may be too slow to forestall a military conflict. They also caution that Russia's ability to mediate, a role for which it is uniquely suited, is limited by the lack of compromise from both Washington and Tehran – and Moscow's own variable relations with the Islamic Republic.

Western diplomats are anonymously spinning the line that Iran doesn't really want a deal that would restrict its nuclear program. US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton suggested that some in Iran see an attack is the "best thing ... because that would unify [Iran], it would legitimize the regime."

The Iranian media, likewise, charged that plans of the P5+1 group (the US, Russia, China, Britain, France, and Germany) were "built on an axis of destruction," and that Israel sabotaged the talks. One Iranian lawmaker said failure was inevitable if "Westerners want to move under the instructions of the Zionist regime."

Iran's nuclear program: 4 things you probably didn't know

Russia straddles both camps like no other. As part of the P5+1, it has joined in ever-increasing sanctions on Iran. Yet it also built Iran's only nuclear power reactor, and sold sophisticated armaments to Iran for years.

Like all the members of the P5+1, Russia does not want Iran to have a nuclear weapon. But it argues that diplomacy is the only way to ensure that end. So Russia's pessimistic assessment may matter, because of the wide chasm that remains as experts gather for technical meetings in Istanbul on July 3.

"For Russia the result is moderately positive," says Sergei Markov, a Kremlin adviser and vice president of the Plekhanov Economic University in Moscow. "It showed Iran is more ready to express its views and compromise, and the Western side did not issue an ultimatum."

Yet the talks need a "more clear advance and quicker developments" if they are to forestall a conflict, says Mr. Markov, who calculates that there is a "quite high" chance of an Israeli attack on Iran in July or August – just months before the US presidential election in November.

"If we would have three more years of such moderately positive results, it would be good," says Markov. "But in this much tighter time-frame, it is not enough."

Israel has repeatedly threatened military action to prevent Iran from achieving even the capability of making a nuclear weapon, much less an actual bomb, and demands that Iran halt all enrichment, permanently. It has decried the talks as a waste of time, while Iran continues to enrich uranium for what it declares are peaceful purposes.

'Give up the practice of demonizing Iran'

Iran has repeatedly rejected nuclear weapons as un-Islamic, and US intelligence agencies believe that Iran has not made a decision to go for a bomb. Even if it did so, experts agree, Iran is still years away from making a deliverable device.

"One should give up the practice of demonizing Iran, which a number of Western countries have been doing for years already," says Igor Korotchenko, director of the Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade in Russia.

"There is no proof that Iran is carrying out a military nuclear program," said Mr. Korotchenko, speaking at a press conference of Iran experts a day after the Moscow talks ended. "There are suspicions and they stay suspicions. Despite so much attention of various [intelligence agencies], there is no proof. We still remember the situation in Iraq and fruitless searches for biological weapons in Saddam Hussein' palaces."

While Russia wants dialogue, Western nations "prefer to use more radical steps for the sake of saving the world," says Rajab Safarov, director of the Center for Studying Modern Iran.

"They do not want Iran to speak in any way as equals," Mr. Safarov said at the same event. "The West has driven itself into such a place that by 3 p.m. [on Tuesday] the talks were already over, and it was a failure."

A last-minute effort to save the Moscow round yielded the agreement a few hours later to hold the technical meeting only in Istanbul on July 3.

Moscow talks more successful than previous two rounds

The current round of talks between Iran and world powers began in Istanbul in April, after a 15-month hiatus. Atmospherics were good and signals from both sides were positive, prompting hope that a deal might halt Iran's most sensitive work – enrichment to 20 percent – in exchange for easing sanctions.

But the second round in Baghdad in May ended acrimoniously, as the P5+1 insisted that Iran halt all levels of enrichment – as required by UN Security Council resolutions – and offered no sanctions relief, which Tehran has demanded.

Also crucial for Iran is recognition of its right to enrich uranium, as spelled out in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

In Moscow, Iran detailed its views about the P5+1 package for the first time, but neither side shifted an inch.

"There were more results than in Istanbul and Baghdad, it's a small step forward," says Anton Khlopkov, director of the Center for Energy and Security Studies in Moscow. But as the process unfolds, it is also clear that other issues are at play.

"Many people in Russia understand that nuclear is not the core of the crisis, but [rather] the low level of US-Iran relations," says Mr. Khlopkov, editor of the Nuclear Club journal. "So Russia sees itself as a mediator, but the keys to the problem are in Washington and Tehran. So if those keys are not used, no amount of effort can make a difference."

And after three rounds already this year, it is still not clear how far either side is willing to compromise. After the Moscow talks, both sides publicly portrayed the other as having to make a "choice" for diplomacy and to prove sincere intent.

Russia as mediator

Russia invested some diplomatic capital in the outcome, aware that any breakthrough would be a foreign policy feather in the cap of recently reelected President Vladimir Putin.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov visited Tehran the week before the talks, and senior officials were very active during negotiations and on the sidelines, trying to prevent a breakdown. Mr. Putin and President Obama also issued a joint statement from the G-20 summit in Mexico, calling on Iran to fulfill its "obligations."

"The Russians feel the Iranians are quite serious," says Vladimir Sotnikov, a senior researcher at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences. "I was in Iran in April and saw myself Iranians suffering high prices ... so they need these negotiations."

Russia is also quite serious about finding a solution, says Mr. Sotnikov. During a conference in the city of Qazvin, the Iranians spoke of an Iran-Russian "strategic partnership" and "said it would be easier to force out outside powers from the region."

Still, the recent history of those ties has fluctuated between hot and cold, sometimes in a matter of days.

The result is less leverage on Iran than other members of the P5+1 might think, says Sotnikov: "Russia has some influence, but not enough to persuade Iran to be compliant with international demands."

"Yes, serious sanctions influence the situation in Iran, but one can't go one making pressure on Iran on and on," says Vladimir Yevseyev, director Russian Center for Socio-Political Studies, who spoke at the press conference. "Now there is talk about economic blockade, then there will be a naval blockade and what will be next? Military action? One can't toughen sanctions forever. It leads us to a dead end."

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 22, 2012

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Days before Putin arrives in Israel, Russia
warns against issuing ultimatums to Iran

Foreign Minister Lavrov says a quick settlement isn’t possible

June 22, 2012, 10:45 pm
http://www.timesofisrael.com/ahead-...sia-warns-against-issuing-ultimatums-to-iran/

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia’s foreign minister said Friday that Iran shouldn’t face threats over its nuclear program and that a quick settlement of the standoff over it isn’t realistic.

Sergey Lavrov said the latest round of talks in Moscow this week between six world powers and Iran has been “quite useful,” even though there was no breakthrough. He said talks must continue without “any artificial deadlines or ultimatums.”

Iran insists its uranium enrichment program serves only civilian purposes, but the U.S., Israel and others suspect it’s a cover for building nuclear weapons. Israel has accused Iran of stretching out the talks to move closer to the ability to make an atomic bomb, and it has threatened to attack the Islamic Republic as a last resort.

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin is expected to face a strong Israeli demand to take a tougher line on Iran when he visits the Jewish state next week. Lavrov’s statement signaled, however, that Moscow will likely respond to Israeli calls for stronger action with its usual advice to be patient and continue talks.

“In order to settle the issue, it’s necessary to refrain from constant threats of using force, abandon scenarios aimed against Iran, and stop dismissing the talks as failure,” Lavrov said on Russia’s Rossiya 24 television.

He said the international talks mustn’t be dragged out, but that it would be wrong to “put forward any artificial deadlines and ultimatums and say that if there is no final agreement by the end of July or August — and there simply can’t be any in such a (short) period — then we will end talks and launch some kind of bellicose actions.”

The Kremlin has long walked a fine line on the Iranian nuclear crisis, mixing careful criticism of Iran, an important trading partner, with praise for some of its moves and calls for more talks. Although Moscow, which built Iran’s first nuclear power plant at Bushehr, has backed some of the previous U.N. sanctions against Iran, it has in recent months firmly rejected new ones.

Russia — which hosted this week’s round of talks with Iran that also involved the U.S., China, Britain, France and Germany — sought to put a positive spin on their outcome. Western officials outlined huge differences between the two sides, but also argued that the diplomatic track hasn’t been derailed.

The negotiators agreed to hold a low-level meeting on July 3 of technical experts in Istanbul, Turkey, before deciding whether there is enough common ground to hold another round of full-fledged political talks. A pause in negotiations may offer a new opportunity for Israel to argue that military force is the only way to stop Tehran from developing atomic weapons.

Iran’s nuclear program is expected to be at the forefront of discussions between Putin and senior Israeli officials next week in Jerusalem.

“The message they (the Russians) will receive is that Israel can’t tolerate a nuclear Iran. Of course we prefer a diplomatic solution, but we will use all means to protect Israel’s survival,” said Yacov Livne, head of the Russia desk at the Israeli Foreign Ministry.

“We expect Russia, as a member of the Security Council, to demonstrate responsibility and help to prevent the Iranian nuclear race,” he said. “I think that will be the most important subject, the central subject here next week.”

Defense Minister Ehud Barak has said repeatedly that Israel can wait a weeks but not years for negotiations to succeed.

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Housecarl · Jun 22, 2012

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL5E8HM80920120622

UPDATE 4-Deadly Israeli raids, Gaza rockets shake truce
Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:28pm GMT

(Adds second Gaza militant dies of injuries)

GAZA, June 22 (Reuters) - Israel launched two air strikes in Gaza on Friday, killing two Palestinian militants and wounding five other people as rockets fired from the enclave slammed into its southern region, threatening to unravel an Egyptian-brokered truce.

Palestinian officials in Gaza said both militants killed in two separate raids belonged to a pro al-Qaeda fringe Salafist Islamist group which Israel blamed in part for a deadly cross-border attack from Egypt's Sinai on Monday.

One of the air strikes targeted al-Bureij refugee camp in Gaza, and a second attack launched after darkness fell wounded four other men in northern Gaza, one of whom was a militant who died of his injuries, Hamas medical officials said.

Israel confirmed both strikes, saying in the first instance its fighter aircraft targeted a group preparing to fire rockets at southern communities and the second raid struck gunmen as they were shooting a rocket that hit near the city of Ashkelon.

In all, four rockets fired from Gaza slammed into southern Israel on Friday, and the total for the week, since Monday, came to more than 130 rocket shootings, Israel said.

The rocket attacks have caused no casualties but sowed panic in a region home to a million Israelis where air raid sirens send many scurrying for cover, disrupting normal life and in turn pressuring leaders to authorise more retaliatory raids.

Friday's violence broke a two-day lull in cross-border attacks when Hamas militants in Gaza said they would abide by an Egyptian-brokered deal to withhold fire as long as Israel also stopped shooting.

Egypt has feared that the fighting near its borders could spark wider violence at a time when Cairo was confronting fresh popular protests over the uncertain outcome of a presidential vote.

Hamas's involvement in the fighting had added to Egypt's and Israel's concerns, as the Islamist group which governs Gaza had largely avoided direct involvement in confrontations with Israel since a 2009 Israeli offensive.

Hamas did not claim any involvement in Friday's violence, a sign that the latest conflagration may be more easily contained.

The militants killed on Friday raised to 10 the number Israel has killed in air strikes since Monday, including a 14-year-old boy. Israel launched these attacks after an attack from Egyptian Sinai that killed an Israeli man.

Israel responded on Monday by killing two of the attackers, then targeted militants in Gaza including some it blamed for the Egyptian border incident and others it said fired rockets.

(Reporting by Saleh Salem; Writing by Allyn Fisher-Ilan; Editing by Diana Abdallah)

© Thomson Reuters 2012 All rights reserved

almost ready · Jun 22, 2012

http://tweetgrid.com/grid?l=1&q1=Gaza&q2=Israel

here is a tweet grid that picks up the active tweets re gaza

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 22, 2012

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Syria Admits It Shot Down Turkish Military Jet

2012-06-22 22:40:17 (35 minutes ago)
Posted By: Intellpuke
http://freeinternetpress.com/story/Syria-Admits-It-Shot-Down-Turkish-Military-Jet-35202.html

Syria said Friday it shot down a Turkish military plane that entered Syrian air space, and Turkey vowed to "determinedly take necessary steps" in response.

It was the most clear and dramatic escalation in tensions between the two countries, which used to be allies before the Syrian revolt began in March 2011. Turkey has become one of the strongest critics of the Syrian regime's brutal response to the country's uprising.

Late Friday, Syria's state-run news agency, SANA, said the military spotted an "unidentified aerial target" that was flying at a low altitude and at a high speed.

"The Syrian anti-air defenses counteracted with anti-aircraft artillery, hitting it directly," SANA said. "The target turned out to be a Turkish military plane that entered Syrian airspace and was dealt with according to laws observed in such cases."

Turkey issued a statement Friday night following a two-hour security meeting led by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, saying Syrian forces downed the plane and that the two Turkish pilots remain missing.

It said Turkey "will determinedly take necessary steps" in response, without saying what those actions would be.

"Following the evaluation of data provided by our related institutions and the findings of the joint search and rescue efforts with Syria, it is understood that our plane was downed by Syria," said the statement, without providing other details.

Relations between Turkey and Syria were already tense before the downing of the F4 plane on Friday.

Turkey has joined nations such as the U.S. in saying that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad should step down because of the regime's brutal suppression of the uprising in his country. Turkey also has set up refugee camps on its border for more than 32,000 Syrians who have fled the fighting.

Syria and Turkey have expelled each other's ambassadors and Syria has accused Turkey of supporting Syrian opposition and even allowing Syrian rebels to operate out of Turkish soil. Turkey strongly denies the allegations.

After a cross-border shooting by Syrian forces in April, Turkey said it would not tolerate any action that it deemed violating its security. The firing had left two refugees dead at a camp near the town of Kilis just inside Turkey.

Foreign Ministry Spokesman Selcuk Unal earlier on Friday rejected allegations that Turkey was sending arms and other equipment to Syrian rebels as baseless. Unal said Turkey was not sending weapons to any of its neighbors, including Syria.

Turkey's military provided no details on the downed plane's mission Friday, but some Turkish TV reports said it was on a reconnaissance flight.

Syria claimed the jet violated its air space over territorial waters, penetrating about 1 kilometer (0.62 mile), but that Syrian vessels joined the search for it, according to Turkey's NTV television. It said Syria forces realized that it was a Turkish jet after firing at it.

Ilter Turan, a professor of political science at Istanbul's Bilgi University, told NTV that Syria's action was clearly "hostile," even if it violated its air space.

"They could have either sent their planes to confront it or force it to land, it is a hostile act by any standard," said Turan.

Turan, however, predicted that Syria will try to avoid escalating tensions further.

Erdogan said the plane went down in the Mediterranean Sea about 8 miles (13 kilometers) away from the Syrian town of Latakia. Four Turkish gunboats and three helicopters were searching for the pilots and wreckage of the plane.

The Turkish military said the plane disappeared from its radar and that radio contact was lost at 11:58 a.m. (0958GMT) Friday during a mission flight.

Some eyewitnesses in Turkey's seaside area of Hatay province told private NTV television that the plane was flying so low they thought it would "hit the roofs." They said the plane then flew toward the sea.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton earlier this month had warned about a massing of Syrian forces near Aleppo, saying such a deployment could be a "red line" for Syria's northern neighbor Turkey "in terms of their strategic and national interests."

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Iran detects "massive" cyber
attack on nuclear facilities

Steve Evans
Published 22 June 2012
http://malware.cbronline.com/news/iran-detects-massive-cyber-attack-on-nuclear-facilities-220612

Intelligence Minister blames UK, US and
Israel for targeting nuclear infrastructure

Iran says it has detected a "massive" cyber attack targeting its nuclear facilities. Ministers claimed the US, UK and Israel were behind the attack.

According to Reuters, the attack was launched following the breakdown in talks Iran had been holding in Moscow with other nations over its controversial nuclear programme. No agreement was reached following two days of talks, and Iran's Intelligence Minister Heydar Moslehi suggested this was the motivation behind the attack.

"Based on obtained information, America and the Zionist regime (Israel) along with the MI6 planned an operation to launch a massive cyber attack against Iran's facilities following the meeting between Iran and the P5+1 in Moscow," Iran's English-language Press TV quoted him as saying.

P45+1 is a group on countries who joined together to engage Iran in diplomatic efforts over its nuclear programme. Its members include the UK, US, Germany, France, Russia and China.

Moslehi added that his country had adequate security defences in place, and that those defences had "defeated" the virus.

At this stage it is not clear if this is the Flame virus or a new malware attack. It was alleged this week that the US and Israel were behind Flame, which has been described as the most complex piece of malware ever seen.

According to The Washington Post the two countries coordinated on Flame's development in an attempt to slow Iran's nuclear programme. It gathered intelligence from Iran's computer network, which was then sent back to the author, apparently to help prepare for a more advanced cyberwarfare campaign.

Iran was also the target of the Stuxnet worm, which actually caused physical damage to the country's nuclear infrastructure. It caused centrifuged to fail at the main Iranian enrichment facility by forcing them to speed up, causing them to overheat.

It was revealed by The New York Times recently that Stuxnet was also the work of the US and Israel. According to the paper it was ordered by President Obama, who sped up the country's cyber espionage and warfare campaigns after taking office.

Kaspersky Lab also claimed that Flame and Stuxnet share some code, meaning it is highly likely they were both developed by the same nation-state.

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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As Iran Talks Falter, Fears
of Military Action Increase

June 23, 2012
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/06/23/2012062300423.html

The near failure of talks in Moscow and the pending imposition of a full oil embargo by the European Union have deepened the dispute between Iran and the international community, and increased concerns about military action.

Two days of grueling talks did not narrow the gaps between the West and Iran. The negotiators could only agree to hold lower level talks in the coming weeks.

Mark Fitzpatrick at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies calls the Moscow meetings "a disappointment," and has little hope for the follow-on talks. "It's, of course, possible that technical talks could narrow differences. But what is really called for is a political decision," he said.

Fitzpatrick predicts more international sanctions in an effort to convince Iranian leaders to abandon their high-level nuclear fuel enrichment program. He says an embargo on Iranian natural gas could be next.

But Leo Drollas, the director of the Center for Global Energy Studies, disagrees. "There's not much scope for restricting that trade. It's not as important for them as oil. Financial restrictions, internationally, are probably the biggest stick that can be used. The financial restrictions would be quite onerous," Drollas said.

Iran says the enrichment is for peaceful purposes, but experts say it brings the country dangerously close to being able to produce a nuclear weapon.

And if the next phase of talks fails, there could be another danger -- an attack by Israel. "It probably will escalate into a larger conflagration, and that could actually lead to a situation where the very existence of the Islamic Republic of Iran could be threatened," Mark Fitzpatrick said.

But he says Israel will not likely attack as long as talks continue.

At the same time, the European Union's oil embargo against Iran goes into full effect July 1. Leo Drollas says the embargo has already cut Iran's oil revenues nearly in half, without causing an increase in the global price of oil.

"The world has more oil than it can handle at the moment," he said "That's why the price of oil has come down quite heavily. And there's no embargo in the world that’s oil tight, if you like, or water-tight."

Drollas says Iran uses its own ships and financing to get around restrictions. So while the pain of economic sanctions is significant, it has not has not yet convinced Iranian leaders to make the policy changes the international community wants.

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Housecarl · Jun 23, 2012

So much for "plausible deniability"....I can only imagine why they're being so cooperative...... :whistle:

For links see article source......
Posted for fair use.....
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE85L09520120622

Kenyan police arrest two Iranians over explosives
Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:15pm GMT
By Joseph Akwiri

MOMBASA, Kenya (Reuters) - Kenyan police said on Friday they had arrested two Iranians after they seized chemicals they suspected were going to be used to make explosives in Mombasa, which has been hit by a series of attacks.

The port city, the capital Nairobi and other parts of Kenya have suffered a series of grenade attacks since Kenya sent troops into Somalia last year to try to crush al Shabaab insurgents it blames for a surge in violence and kidnappings threatening tourism in east Africa's biggest economy.

Police arrested the Iranians on Wednesday in Nairobi. On the same day, police impounded a container in Mombasa originating from Iraq and suspected to be carrying explosives.

On Thursday, police flew one of the suspects to Mombasa, where he led police to recover 15 kg of powder, which security experts took to their laboratory for testing.

"They are cooperating well. They are giving us key information that might help us reduce terrorist attacks in the country," Ambrose Munyasia, a senior police officer at the Coast region told Reuters.

"We want to find out whether these substances are linked to any terror groups, including al Shabaab, al Qaeda and any other group," Aggrey Adoli, Coast provincial police officer, added.

Francis Kimemia, Kenya's acting head of civil service who was in Mombasa, said the government had sought the help of international agencies such the FBI and Interpol in helping deal with security threats.

"We have been working with them in terms of identifying criminals. We cannot fight terrorism alone. You have to work with other partners and other state organs," he said.

In the most recent attack, a bomb exploded in a trading centre in the heart of Nairobi in late May, wounding more than 30 people. One person later died from their injuries.

Gunmen also detonated grenades outside a nightclub in Mombasa in May, killing one person and wounding several others.

Al Shabaab seeks to impose a strict version of sharia, Islamic law. The group emerged as a force in 2006 as part of a movement that pushed U.S.-backed warlords out of Somalia's capital, Mogadishu.

At present it also has hundreds of foreign fighters in its ranks.

© Thomson Reuters 2012 All rights reserved

Housecarl · Jun 23, 2012

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use......
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE85L07H20120622

Egypt army talks tough as Tahrir protests
Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:53pm GMT
By Alastair Macdonald and Marwa Awad

CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt's military rulers dismissed complaints from protesters on Friday that it was entrenching its rule and blamed the Muslim Brotherhood's presidential candidate for stirring up emotions that drew thousands onto Cairo's Tahrir Square.

The Islamist candidate, Mohamed Morsy, shot back that the generals were defying the democratic will of the people and said protests would go on. But he stopped short of repeating a claim to have won last weekend's election, urging simply a rapid announcement of the result, and praised the army as "patriotic".

In a brusque four-minute statement read on state television as Egyptians returned from weekly prayers - and as the revolutionary bastion of Tahrir was chanting for democracy - the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) made clear it had no plan to heed calls to cancel a decree extending its powers or reverse its dissolution of the new, Islamist-led parliament.

"The issuance of the supplementary constitutional decree was necessitated by the needs of administering the affairs of the state during this critical period in the history of our nation," the off-screen announcer said, in the bureaucratic language favoured by the generals who pushed aside brother officer Hosni Mubarak last year to appease the angry millions on the streets.

In what were menacing tones for the army's old adversary the Muslim Brotherhood, SCAF said people were free to protest - but only if they did not disrupt daily life.

At Tahrir, the broad traffic interchange by the Nile in central Cairo was filled with makeshift tents offering shade from the midday sun, hawkers offering an array of goods from tea to "I Love Tahrir Square" T-shirts. Many knelt in prayer during the weekly service. Large groups of pious Islamists were bussed in from the provinces by their parties.

The crowd chanted and waved Egyptian flags.

The deadlock between Egypt's two strongest forces raised grave doubts on the prospects for consensual democracy, though some see possible compromise, if Morsy does become president.

The SCAF statement read: "Anticipating the announcement of the presidential election results before they are announced officially is unjustifiable, and is one of the main causes of division and confusion prevailing the political arena."

It also said the army had no power to repeal the dissolution of parliament, saying that was down to judges who ruled some of January's election rules unconstitutional. Critics say the judges were appointed under Mubarak and are not impartial.

PROTESTS

The Brotherhood is mounting protest vigils on town squares to demand the reversal of the decree and the dissolution. It also fears a delay in announcing the result of the presidential election indicates an attempt to cheat - though opponents say it is the Islamists who are not playing fair.

Morsy and former general Ahmed Shafik both say they believe they won the run-off ballot. But it is Morsy's declaration of victory within hours of polls closing - far more than Shafik's later, more cautious statements - which has driven debate about underhand tactics in a country long used to vote-rigging.

The delay in publication of results, due on Thursday but not now expected until at least Saturday, has heightened anxiety on all sides, although all sides say they will protest peacefully.

Morsy told a news conference he would continue to reject SCAF's decree, which was issued as polls closed on Sunday, two days after the constitutional court gave the military grounds to dissolve parliament: "The constitutional declaration clearly implies attempts by the military council to restrict the incoming president," he said. "This we totally reject."

But with no obvious resolution in sight to the stand-off, Morsy also made conciliatory references to the army: "There is no problem between us and our patriotic armed forces," he said.

"We do not agree to the issuing of the constitutional decree and neither do the people. Why do we need a supplementary declaration when we are going to draft a new constitution?"

After the blunt warning about declarations of election victory, Morsy notably did not repeat his claim to have won, but called instead for a speedy announcement to end the uncertainty.

In a country where virtually no one can remember an election that was not rigged before last year, trust is low, not least among Brotherhood officials, many of whom, like Morsy, were jailed under Mubarak for their political activities.

The same electoral commission that handed an improbable 90 percent of a November 2010 parliamentary vote to Mubarak's supporters - a result which fuelled the protests that brought him down a few weeks later - sits in judgment on the new presidency.

SCARE TACTIC

While many of the urban liberals who began the uprising against Mubarak 17 months ago are uneasy about the electoral success of the Islamists, the prospect of Shafik winning, or of the army retaining power behind an impotent President Morsy, would for them mean the failure of their revolution.

Hassan Nafaa, a political analyst and critic of Mubarak, said: "The military council's statement is intended to scare the people and quell the revolutionary spirit of the nation through the firm authoritarian tone in which the statement was delivered. But this will not work because all politically aware civilians refuse the military's stewardship over the state."

Among mostly Islamist protesters, sentiment was also firm.

"This is a classic counter revolution that will only be countered by the might of protesters," said Safwat Ismail, 43, a member of the Muslim Brotherhood who came from the Nile Delta. "I am staying in the square until the military steps down."

Mahmoud Mohammed, a bearded, 31-year-old marine engineer from Alexandria among a group from the more fundamentalist Salafist movement camping on the square, insisted they were not looking for a battle, but wanted to see democracy installed.

"The people elected a parliament and they put it in the rubbish bin. We need the army to hand over," he said, adding: "No one came here for a fight. We need democracy."

Though tension is real across the country, many of Egypt's 82 million people are weary of turmoil and economic crisis, so it is unclear how large protests might become - though the Brotherhood alone has formidable reserves and capacities.

On Friday, most people appeared to be staying at home and passing Friday's Muslim weekend as normal, though once the fierce sun goes down, gatherings might grow.

Events of the past week, which also saw a renewal of the power of military police to arrest civilians, have unnerved Western allies, notably the United States which has long been the key sponsor of the Egyptian armed forces but now says it wants to see them hand power to civilians.

Adding to unease, Mubarak is himself back in the news, being transferred to a military hospital on Tuesday evening from the prison where he began a life sentence this month.

Military and security sources have given a confusion of accounts about his condition, from "clinically dead" at one point, to being on life support after a stroke to "stabilising". Many Egyptians suspect his fellow generals may be exaggerating his illness to get their old comrade out of jail.

etcher)

© Thomson Reuters 2012 All rights reserved

Housecarl · Jun 23, 2012

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE85L08O20120622

Refugees accuse Sudan of scorched-earth offensive
Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:56pm GMT
By Hereward Holland

KILO 18 REFUGEE TRANSIT CAMP, South Sudan (Reuters) - Refugees say Sudan's armed forces are attacking villages in the Blue Nile border state with warplanes, helicopters and troops, killing civilians and torching settlements, in a counter-insurgency campaign that rights activists say could include war crimes.

Sudanese army and civilian officials, who strongly deny the allegations, in turn accuse the rebels of using civilians as human shields and as pawns to win international sympathy.

In over a dozen interviews, refugees who have arrived in South Sudan over the last three weeks told Reuters that Sudan's armed forces had burned their homes in the Ingessana mountains region, scattering people into caves and forests.

They are victims of a conflict that erupted last year, around the time Sudan and South Sudan split apart under a 2005 peace deal, and which shattered six years of relative peace and cast the 1,800 kilometre (1,125 mile) frontier into turmoil.

The fighting between government forces and rebels, whom Khartoum accuses the South of backing, has complicated already-fraught talks between the two countries to resolve a raft of issues related to partition.

It has also alarmed aid agencies who fear a humanitarian disaster in Blue Nile and in South Kordofan, another border state, as food stocks dwindle.

Saura Mayas is one of the 35,000 new arrivals in South Sudan's Upper Nile state who have been on the march for months. Cradling one of her malnourished twin babies, Mayas said she has been running since December, when Sudanese troops attacked her village, Jam.

"In the afternoon, after lunch, the plane came and bombed the village, then the soldiers started to burn all the houses and the people ran into the forest," she said, a leather talisman hanging from her neck.

"In the evening when I buried myself in the trees, the big guns shot into the forest," she said through an Ingessana translator.

Events in the border regions are difficult to verify first-hand because the areas are remote and Sudan restricts access for independent observers.

But the refugees' accounts echoed some of those that advocacy group Human Rights Watch published in April that it said "indicates potential war crimes may have occurred".

Sudanese officials dismiss those charges, saying their forces are in the border states to help civilians, not hurt them. They point out that many people have actually fled north from the conflict, suggesting they feel secure there.

Rabie Abdelati, an official at Sudan's Information Ministry, denied the armed forces were burning villages but said the rebels might be.

"They are not following the law. They are not respecting civilians. They make a lot of destruction," he said of the insurgents. "I cannot imagine the armed forces would burn villages."

ARC OF UNREST

While Khartoum and Juba bicker, often violently, over oil, cash, citizenship, and lines on a map, Sudan's army has been battling guerrilla armies in an arc of unrest stretching from the Ethiopian border in the east to the Chadian border in the west.

During the 1983-2005 civil war, the insurgents in Blue Nile and South Kordofan fought as the 10th and 9th divisions of the southern rebel Sudan People's Liberation Army.

But when Sudan and South Sudan split up in July, 2011, Khartoum took the two states, home to a mix of Muslims, Christians and others who follow traditional African beliefs.

Fighting in South Kordofan erupted in June last year, and the rebels rebranded themselves the Sudan People's Liberation Army North (SPLA-N). The Blue Nile insurgents returned to the bush in September, reigniting a dormant conflict over resources, political rights, ethnicity, religion, and culture.

The rebels, who aim to topple Sudan's President Omar Hassan al-Bashir, say they are fighting a Khartoum elite who have left their regions undeveloped and marginalised. Khartoum accuses them of trying to sow chaos at Juba's behest.

Despite official denials, independent research group Small Arms Survey has gathered information which it says suggests the countries have both supported insurgents.

In April, it outlined evidence indicating Juba had continued to give military and logistical support to the SPLA-N after partition, noting rebel commanders were often seen in the South Sudanese capital.

The conflict has been a major hurdle to talks between the two countries to settle issues including the location of the border, the status of citizens in one another's territory and how much the landlocked South should pay to export oil via Sudan.

"It's all about power in the end," one aid worker said, sketching on a hand-drawn map the movement of the front line as the counter-insurgency campaign sweeps through the state, pushing refugees out of the mountains and into the South.

RAINY SEASON COMING

Sitting in the speckled shade of a thorny tree in a crisp white robe, 32-year-old Idriss Hamoda said he left his village of Magaja when the "Jallaba" - a derogatory term for Sudanese Arabs - attacked in early January, killing 12 people and burning the village to the ground.

First Antonov cargo planes bombed the village, and then helicopter gunships shot people, Hamoda said. The soldiers came after.

"Those who were not able to run, they slaughtered them like hens," Hamoda said as women passed by wearing wraps of vibrant, saturated colours.

Several of the other refugees interviewed also recounted helicopter and warplane attacks on their villages.

Abdallah Hassan, 28, from Amar Atom, said his grandmother was burned alive in her house. "By the time we came back, we only found the bones," he said.

Wrong-footed aid agencies are scrambling resources to help this month's surge in refugees from Blue Nile, who now number about 100,000. Medical charity Medicins Sans Frontieres (MSF) describes the situation as a full-blown humanitarian crisis.

"We see people dying every day. We see people dying of malnutrition, we see people dying of dehydration, and we see a vast majority of the population being quite ill, mostly with diarrhoea," MSF's emergency coordinator Tara Newell said.

The coming rainy season will be a mixed blessing, turning roads to gluey mud but providing a lifeline to thirsty refugees.

Like many others, Mayas and her remaining family were forced to eat tree leaves and roots and drink from puddles. One of her children died of dehydration. Another, Amere, born on the side of the road, died of diarrhoea at midnight on Monday.

Clutching her remaining child in a white MSF tent, Mayas implored Bashir to put an end the fighting. "I am not a soldier. Why did he do that? Tell him to stop the war."

© Thomson Reuters 2012 All rights reserved

Housecarl · Jun 23, 2012

Hummmm.....

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use......
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE85L0AS20120622

Sudan austerity protests spread after Friday prayers
Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:24pm GMT
By Alexander Dziadosz

KHARTOUM (Reuters) - Sudanese security forces clashed with anti-government protesters across Khartoum on Friday in the most widespread demonstrations to have broken out in the capital since officials unveiled tough spending cuts earlier this week.

The demonstrations, now in their sixth day, expanded beyond the core of student activists and spread into several neighbourhoods that had been quiet as hundreds of Sudanese took to the streets after Friday prayers.

The smell of tear gas hung in the air and broken rocks covered streets as riot police and demonstrators faced off throughout the city, witnesses said. Demonstrators burned tyres and security forces used batons to disperse them.

In the first significant demonstration of the day, about 400 to 500 protesters began chanting "the people want to overthrow the regime" as they left the Imam Abdel Rahman mosque in the suburb of Omdurman, activists and two witnesses said.

As security forces gathered, the protesters called for the police to join them, chanting: "Oh police, oh police, how much is your salary and how much is a pound of sugar?"

The police fired tear gas and then used batons as they clashed with the protesters, who threw rocks back at them. Witnesses said men in civilian clothes also attacked the demonstrators.

Police were not immediately available for comment.

Large demonstrations have been relatively rare in Sudan, which avoided the "Arab Spring" protest movements which swept through neighbouring Egypt and Libya. Security forces usually quickly disperse protests.

But government measures to cut spending to plug a budget gap - including the highly unpopular move of scaling back fuel subsidies - sparked a spate of demonstrations this week.

The country has faced soaring inflation since South Sudan seceded a year ago - taking with it about three quarters of the country's oil production - and activists have been trying to use public frustration to build a movement to topple the government of President Omar Hassan al-Bashir.

A BROADER BASE

Unlike previous days, when the demonstrations were led largely by students, the protesters on Friday appeared to encompass a broader segment of the capital's population.

At one protest in Omdurman, about 100 people chanted "Freedom, freedom" until police fired tear gas to disperse them.

Police also fired tear gas to break up separate protests in the central neighbourhoods of Burri, Khartoum Three and Al-Daim, which had previously been quiet, witnesses said.

Protesters burned tyres on the streets and blocked traffic and threw rocks at security forces, they said.

Two small protests also broke out in the northern suburb of Bahri, which police dispersed with batons, activists said. A witness confirmed the account.

About 40 people joined one protest in the area, but stopped amid a heavy security presence, while around 100 people burned tyres at the other protest until police broke them up.

Sudanese officials say they have little choice but to scale back fuel subsidies and take other sensitive measures to plug a budget deficit the finance minister has put at about $2.4 billion.

The country had been supposed to continue collecting some revenues from South Sudan's oil because the landlocked new nation has to export its crude through the north.

But the two failed to set a price, and South Sudan shut down its production in January after Khartoum started confiscating some oil. African Union-brokered talks in Addis Ababa have so far failed to yield a settlement.

Both economies were already reeling from decades of conflict, U.S. trade sanction and mismanagement.

© Thomson Reuters 2012 All rights reserved

Housecarl · Jun 23, 2012

For links see article source....
Posted for fair use......
http://profit.ndtv.com/News/Article...our-agree-on-130bn-euro-growth-package-306740

Euro zone latest developments: Big four agree on 130bn euro growth package
NDTV, 23 Jun 2012 | 12:08 PM

German Chancellor Angela Merkel resisted pressure on Friday for common euro zone bonds or a more flexible use of Europe's rescue funds but agreed with leaders of France, Italy and Spain on a 130 billion euros package to revive growth. After four-way talks in Rome's Renaissance Villa Madama, Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti said the European Union should adopt pro-growth measures worth about 1 percent of the region's gross domestic product at a crucial summit next week.

But the three others made no perceptible progress in pushing Merkel, who leads Europe's most powerful economy and the main contributor to its rescue funds, towards mutualising Europe's debts or using existing bailout resources more flexibly.

"Growth can only have solid roots if there is fiscal discipline, but fiscal discipline can be maintained only if there is growth and job creation," Monti told a joint news conference after talks that lasted just an hour and 40 minutes.

Here are latest developments:

* The measures, already in the works in Brussels, include increasing the European Investment Bank's capital, redirecting unspent EU regional aid funds and launching project bonds to co-finance major public investment programmes. No new steps were announced on Friday. The four leaders did agree to move ahead on creating a tax on financial transactions even though not all EU members will be on board. About a dozen EU states support setting up the so-called "Tobin tax", more than the nine required to go ahead as a group within the EU, a French presidential source said. Merkel made no mention, however, of any move towards mutualising past euro zone debt or new borrowing.

* French President Francois Hollande voiced impatience with Berlin's reluctance, saying it should not take 10 years to create jointly underwritten euro bonds. He said greater solidarity was needed among member states before they abandon more sovereignty to EU institutions. "I consider euro bonds to be an option ... but not in 10 years," Hollande said in a direct challenge to Merkel. "There can be no transfer of sovereignty if there is not an improvement in solidarity."

* The German position essentially amounts to the reverse. Merkel argues that members of the 17-nation currency union must transfer control over national budget and economic policies to Brussels before Germany would consider common debt issuance.
"Liability and control belong together," she said, citing as an example that EU treaties ruled out letting euro zone rescue funds lend directly to Spanish banks because only the Spanish state could enforce conditions on the banks.

* The contrasting comments left much work for diplomats to produce a convincing blueprint for closer fiscal and banking union at a full EU summit next Thursday and Friday, which Monti called a defining moment in the crisis. That plan is expected to include the first steps towards a banking union, starting by putting the European Central Bank in charge of supervising large cross-border euro zone banks. Without progress on bank sector integration or other financial stability measures, France is not ready to commit to ratifying an EU budget discipline pact agreed earlier this year, French diplomatic sources said.

* Dangerously high Spanish borrowing costs eased a little on market hopes for policy initiatives at the Brussels summit. The European Central Bank took a supportive step on Friday, relaxing its collateral rules to let financial institutions pledge a wider range of assets in exchange for cash. The move helps counter the impact of credit rating downgrades. If it falls short, Madrid may be pushed closer to eventually needing a sovereign bailout.

* Without a convincing result, "there would be progressively greater speculative attacks on individual countries, with harassment of the weaker countries", Monti said in an interview with several European newspapers ahead of the mini-summit. "A large part of Europe would find itself having to continue to put up with very high interest rates that would then impact on the states and also indirectly on firms. This is the direct opposite of what is needed for economic growth," he said.

* The technocratic Italian premier, who needs a success to shore up his weakening domestic authority, sounded slightly more optimistic after the talks, saying next week's summit should "put at ease the financial markets' expectations", switching to English to add: "The euro is here to stay and we all mean it."

* Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, on the brink of requesting up to 100 billion euros in euro zone rescue funds to recapitalise struggling banks, said the four had agreed "to use any necessary mechanism to obtain financial stability in the euro zone". An audit released on Thursday found Spanish banks would need up to 62 billion euros in extra capital to weather adverse circumstances.

* After a meeting of euro zone finance ministers late on Thursday, IMF chief Christine Lagarde demanded rapid progress on a number of other fronts, raising the heat on Merkel. Lagarde said a banking union was a top priority, alongside fiscal union and the principle of mutualising debt. Germany refuses to countenance common bond issuance and will not soften until economic union is complete. It is also opposed to the early introduction of a bloc-wide bank deposit guarantee scheme.

* While Spain's needs are most pressing - its medium term borrowing costs hit a euro era high at auction on Thursday - the political stakes may be higher for Italy's Monti. With his popularity sinking, the parties that back Monti in parliament are increasingly reluctant to support his reform proposals at home, but demand he get results in the European arena to ease the pressure on Italy's recession-bound economy. "Monti knows he has to get his ducks in a row on the European side so he can tell the parties that he's sorted that part out, and now it's their turn to help sort out Italy," said James Walston, politics professor at Rome's American University.

* Though hugely popular when he came to office in November, Monti's approval rating has halved as tax hikes and pension cuts exacerbated an already severe recession, and his labour reform estranged both unions and the business establishment.
But for the markets, Monti remains the man most likely to tackle Italy's debt mountain and uncompetitiveness. If he comes under serious threat, Italy could quickly supplant Spain as the euro zone's main flashpoint.

* Monti's hand was weakened by comments on Wednesday by his predecessor, Silvio Berlusconi, who said the prospect of Italy quitting the euro was "not blasphemy" and that he failed to understand why it would hurt Italy's economy. Berlusconi's People of Freedom party is one of the two main groups that guarantee Monti a majority in parliament. Monti proposed on the sidelines of this week's G20 summit using the euro zone's rescue funds to buy the bonds of Spain and Italy to bring down their borrowing costs.

* Hollande said after Friday's talks he supported the Italian idea. But Merkel has played down the notion, which investors said might be counter-productive by quickly burning through scarce rescue capital, unless the European Central Bank stepped in decisively in support. Other proposals from Monti, such as stripping some forms of public investment from budget deficit calculations, or commonly issued euro zone bonds, are also broadly supported by France and Spain but opposed by Germany, at least for now.

rodeorector · Jun 23, 2012

Unbelievable that they would throw more money into a black hole.

DustMusher · Jun 23, 2012

Dutch and the rest of the newshounds:

I don't say this enough, but thank you for posting these WoW threads. I DO read them and watch the dots and the winds. This WoW series makes a lot of difference in my knowledge and ability to keep my ear to the ground.

Again Thank yo for your hard work and for sharing it with us.

DM

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Gul: Turkey can't ignore
that Syria shot down jet

By REUTERS
06/23/2012 12:50
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=274903

"It is not possible to cover over a thing like this, whatever
is necessary will no doubt be done," says Turkish president,

ANKARA - Turkish President Abdullah Gul said on Saturday it was not possible to ignore the fact that Syria had shot down a Turkish fighter jet and said everything that needed to be done following the incident would be done, Turkish media reported.

"It is not possible to cover over a thing like this, whatever is necessary will no doubt be done," Gul told reporters from the central Anatolian city of Kayseri.

The Turkish military said it had lost contact with one of its F-4 fighter jets off the southern Turkish coast near Syria on Friday morning and Damascus later acknowledged it had shot the plane down.

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, who had been returning from a summit in Brazil when the news broke, called an emergency security meeting on his arrival in Ankara and in a statement his office said Ankara would act "decisively" once all the details had emerged.

Syria has said the Turkish aircraft was flying low and well inside Syrian territorial waters when it was shot down. Gul said it was normal for jets to briefly cross into foreign airspace and said a probe into the incident would look at whether in fact it was downed while in Turkish airspace.

"When we think of the speed of these jet planes while flying above the sea, crossing over borders for a short distance and then back again is a little bit routine," said Gul.

He said because of the serious nature of the incident it was not possible at this stage to give any more detailed statement.

Asked whether Turkey was in contact with Syria over the incident, Gul said telephone contact had been made and said: "Because there is no security there, we withdrew our representatives from Syria. This does not mean there is no contact."

Gul said Turkish and Syrian forces were still working together to search for the two missing crew of the aircraft.

Ankara, which had drawn close to Syria before the uprising against Syrian President Bashar Assad, turned against the Syrian leader when he responded violently to pro-democracy protests inspired by popular upheavals elsewhere in the Arab world.

Turkey now gives refuge to the rebel Free Syrian Army on its frontier with Syria and is sheltering more than 30,000 Syrian refugees.

Ankara has previously floated the possibility of setting up some kind of safe haven or humanitarian corridor inside Syria, which would entail military intervention, but has said it would undertake no such action without UN Security Council approval.

Turkey has said, however, that Assad must step down.

=

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

=

Turkey Pledges to Take the 'Necessary
Steps' After Syria Downs Turkish Jet

VOA News
June 23, 2012
http://www.voanews.com/content/syria-turkey-jet/1246255.html

Turkey has promised to take the "necessary steps" in response to Syria's admission that it downed a Turkish air force jet that had flown into Syrian airspace.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan issued a statement after an emergency security meeting in Ankara, saying a decisive response will be taken once all the facts about the incident are known.

Syrian officials said the low-flying warplane was shot down over the Mediterranean Sea Friday.

Syrian forces are helping the Turks search for the two missing Turkish pilots.

Turkey has joined nations such as the United States in saying that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad should step down because of the uprising in his country.

The United Nations envoy for Syria, Kofi Annan, told reporters in Geneva Friday that "countries of influence" need to persuade both sides in Syria to "stop the killing and start the talking." He said it is time for countries to "raise the level of pressure" on both Syria's government and the opposition to end violence in the country.

Mr. Annan said Iran should be "part of the solution" for bringing peace to Syria. Russia has pushed for Iran's involvement in resolving the conflict, while the U.S. has said Iran should not be involved.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported fresh clashes Friday between government troops and rebels in the flashpoint city of Homs, where hundreds of civilians are believed to be trapped and unable to find shelter.

The U.N. says up to 1.5 million Syrians are now in need of humanitarian assistance as it warns of a deteriorating situation in Syria. The figure reported by the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs is up from an earlier estimate of 1 million.

=

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

=

Syria: New cabinet, more
deaths as threats from Turkey

Published June 23rd, 2012 - 13:05 GMT
http://www.albawaba.com/news/syria-new-cabinet-more-deaths-threats-turkey-430901

Syrian government forces shelled the town of Deir Ezzor in the east, killing 28 people in total, reported on Saturday Syrian NGOs. According to them, troops loyal to President Bashar al-Assad attacked several buildings in the vicinity of the old airport of Deir Ezzor. Women and children were among the victims.

Meanwhile, President Bashar al-Assad issued a decree on the formation of a new government where Ministers of Foreign Affairs Walid Muallem and Interior Minister Mohammad Ibrahim al-Shaar keep their positions.

The Defence Minister Daoud Rajha, 64, in office since August also retained his post. He was among those sanctioned by the United States over the violent repression by the regime of the protest movement.

Syria confirmed Friday it had shot a Turkish fighter plane, which had entered its airspace. Turkish President Abdullah Gul warned Saturday that his country would respond with "necessary measures", even though the investigation continues. "No coverage is possible," said the Turkish leader, who was quoted by the official news agency Anatolia.

"There is no doubt that the necessary measures will be taken," he added, without further details. Gul, however, noted that the authorities were still trying to establish the exact circumstances of the incident and determine whether or not the aircraft had violated Syrian airspace.

"Our investigation will focus on whether the plane was shot down inside our borders or not," he said. "As the consequences could be very serious, there will be no clear statement before the circumstances have been thoroughly examined." The Turkish president said it was common for fighter jets flying at high speed to briefly violate the airspace of other countries. According to Turkey, the plane crashed into the Mediterranean Sea, about 13km off the Syrian city of Latakia. According to Turkish media, teams of Turkish and Syrian coastguards Saturday continued a joint search operation to find the two pilots.

On Friday night, Syria confirmed shooting down the aircraft, claiming that the aircraft had violated its airspace. According to Damascus, Syrian forces have realized after shooting the hunter that it was an aircraft of the Turkish army. The official news agency SANA had reported that the Syrian army had spotted an "unidentified aerial target," flying at low altitude and high speed. "The Syrian air defenses had reacted with the anti-aircraft artillery, directly affecting" the target, according to SANA. "The target turned out to be a Turkish military aircraft that had entered Syrian airspace and was treated in accordance with the rules observed in such cases."

=

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

=

Turkey vows 'necessary' action against Syria

Date: Saturday Jun. 23, 2012 6:20 AM ET
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/201...ter-military-plane-shot-down-by-syria-120623/

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish President Abdullah Gul said Saturday his country would take "necessary" action against Syria for the downing of a Turkish military jet, but suggested that the aircraft may have unintentionally violated the Syrian airspace.

Syria said Friday its forces had shot down a Turkish military plane that entered its air space. The plane, an unarmed F-4, went down in the Mediterranean Sea about 13 kilometres away from the Syrian town of Latakia, Turkey said.

The incident further escalated tensions between Syria and NATO-member Turkey. The two neighbors used to be allies before the Syrian revolt began in March 2011 but Turkey has become one of the strongest critics of the Syrian regime's brutal response to the country's uprising and is playing host to civilian and military Syrian opposition groups.

Gul said that Turkey was still trying to establish the exact circumstances of the incident but said it was "routine" for jets flying in high-speeds to violate other countries' air spaces for short periods of time.

"These incidents are routine," Gul said. "They are incidents that are not ill-intentioned and happen because of the speeds (of the jets)."

"Was that the case, or did (the incident) occur in our own air space, these facts will emerge," he said. "No one should have any doubt that whatever (action) is necessary will be taken."

Gul did not elaborate on what those steps would be. But Turkey said after a border shooting incident -- which killed two people inside a Turkish refugee camp in April -- that it would call on its NATO allies to intervene should it feel that its security was being threatened.

Syrian coast guards joined Turkish coast guards in their search for the jet's two missing crew members for a second day on Saturday, Turkey's private NTV reported. Some pieces of the wreckage had been found, Gul said, without elaborating.

Late Friday, Syria's state-run news agency, SANA, said the military spotted an "unidentified aerial target" that was flying at a low altitude and at a high speed.

"The Syrian anti-air defenses counteracted with anti-aircraft artillery, hitting it directly," SANA said. "The target turned out to be a Turkish military plane that entered Syrian airspace and was dealt with according to laws observed in such cases."

Syria claimed the jet violated its air space over territorial waters, penetrating about 1 kilometre. It said Syria forces realized that it was a Turkish jet after firing at it.

On Saturday, a top-selling Turkish newspaper, Hurriyet, accused Syria of "Playing with Fire" in its banner headline, while Vatan newspaper said Syria would "pay the price" for the attack.

Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/201...lane-shot-down-by-syria-120623/#ixzz1ycO3U4Ft

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

=

How would NATO respond to Syria
shooting down a Turkish plane?

Posted By Uri Friedman
Friday, June 22, 2012 - 2:40 PM Share
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts...espond_to_syria_shooting_down_a_turkish_plane

This morning, Turkey made the startling announcement that it had lost contact with one of its F-4 military jets near the country's southern border with Syria, and that it had launched search-and-rescue efforts for the plane's two pilots.

Details about the incident are still fuzzy. Turkey's Hurriyet Daily News is reporting that Syrian authorities have apologized to their Turkish counterparts for downing the aircraft (and cooperated on the rescue mission), while the BBC notes that the Turkish government has called an emergency security meeting and that witnesses in the Syrian coastal city of Latakia have told BBC Arabic that Syrian air defenses shot down an aircraft. But none of the key details -- the plane's mission, the cause and location of the crash, the whereabouts of the pilots -- have been nailed down.

"We've lost a plane and as yet we don't know have any information as to what happened and whether it was brought down," Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in a press conference on Friday.

Even with the shifting facts, it's worth asking: Could this incident -- or an incident like it -- trigger more aggressive action against Syria by the international community? After all, Turkey is a member of NATO, and Article V of the Washington Treaty outlines the alliance's commitment to collective security:

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

A day after 9/11, NATO invoked this very provision for the first (and, to date, only) time, pledging to support U.S. military retaliation if it were determined that the terrorist attacks had been perpetrated by foreign nationals. The United States soon satisfied this condition in briefings with NATO members, but ultimately chose to topple the Taliban government in Afghanistan outside the NATO framework. (It's also worth noting that NATO forces are involved in plenty of operations that don't involve Article V.)

If Turkey has reason to believe that Syria shot down its plane, might NATO respond in a similar fashion? It's not an entirely unreasonable question. The bloody and protracted crisis in Syria has poisoned relations between Ankara and Damascus, and Turkey suggested in April that it might turn to NATO under Article V to help protect its border in response to incursions by Syrian forces -- a threat Syria condemned as "provocative."

But Kurt Volker, the executive director of the McCain Institute for International Leadership and a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, points out that Article V simply offers NATO allies an opportunity to consult with one another and does not necessarily entail a military response. If Turkey wanted to bring today's incident to the alliance, it would most likely instruct the Turkish ambassador in Brussels to work with NATO's secretary-general on calling a formal meeting to discuss the episode and formulate an appropriate response.

"A response could be anything from a statement reiterating the inviolability of security guarantees to members coordinating activities so that they can respond to further attacks on Turkish interests," Volker says.

He doesn't believe today's incident alone will alter the international community's response to the Syrian conflict, but he does think a NATO meeting on the matter could nurture a broader discussion about how to intervene militarily in Syria outside the U.N. Security Council, where Russia and China have repeatedly opposed such action. One scenario, he adds, could be Western and Arab countries joining forces to create "safe zones" in Syria, support the Syrian opposition, and conduct aerial strikes against Syria's offensive military assets.

"I do get the feeling that the patience of the international community is growing thinner," Volker explains. "With the recent village-by-village slaughter [in Syria] and brazenness of the Russians in trying to arm the Syrians, I think we may be approaching a point at which this kind of coalition intervention is more thinkable than it was a couple months ago."

James Joyner, the managing editor of the Atlantic Council, points out that if Syria shot down the lost Turkish plane in Syrian air space, it would not be considered an attack under NATO's charter. Even if NATO determines that Syria attacked Turkey, he adds, he doesn't think the alliance has any appetite for going to war with Syria.

"It would be one thing if Syria sent ground troops into Turkey and started shooting," he says, "but shooting down a plane that might have been surveilling Syrian air space is just a different animal than that. This is more of a harsh words and sanctions kind of thing, and frankly there's not much more of that that we can do in terms of Syria."

Update: After an emergency security meeting, Prime Minister Erdogan's has issued a statement indicating that Turkey believes it was indeed Syria that shot down its fighter jet and that the pilots have yet to be found. Most ominously, the statement added that Turkey would respond decisively once it had established exactly what took place today, according to the BBC.

A Syrian military spokesman also issued a statement on the Turkish jet, noting that "an unidentified aerial target" had "violated Syrian airspace" on Friday morning and that "the Syrian anti-air defenses counteracted with anti-aircraft artillery, hitting it directly as it was 1 kilometer away from land, causing it to crash into Syrian territorial waters west of Om al-Tuyour village in Lattakia province, 10 kilometers from the beach." The aircraft, the spokesman added, "was dealt with according to laws observed in such cases."

doctor_fungcool · Jun 23, 2012

Plus there are massive war games taking place in Asia (South Korea and the U.S.). These games are taking place near the North Korean border.

As I've pointed out previously, the anniversary of the Korean war is June 25, 1950.

Sunday evening here at TB2k should be interesting to say the least.

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Iranian general: Any attack
will cause end of Israel

23 June 2012, 14:54 (GMT+05:00)
http://en.trend.az/regions/iran/2039976.html#popupInfo

The deputy chief of staff of the Iranian Armed Forces, Major General Mostafa Izadi, told FNA during an interview that any military aggression against Iran would lead to an immediate end of the "Zionist regime".

"The Islamic Revolution enjoys high capability," he said.

Iranian officials and commanders have warned that any "enemy" move, even the slightest aggression, against the Islamic Republic would be reciprocated with a destructive response and will endanger the U.S. interests all around the world.

The Western countries and Israel accuse Iran of seeking nuclear weapon production, but Iran rejects the claims, saying its nuclear program has peaceful purposes.

Both the U.S. and Israel says the military attack on Iran is still on their tables.

A number of states and international organizations, including the United Nations, adopted sanctions against Iran demanding from the Islamic republic to ensure full transparency of its nuclear program and to prove that it is exclusively for peaceful purposes.

Iranian officials have stated on numerous occasions that any aggressive move against the Islamic Republic would be met with proper resistance.

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mzkitty · Jun 23, 2012

I posted a separate thread on this too - they fear imminent attacks:

US embassy suspends all travel to Mombasa as Kenyan police arrest 2 Iranians on suspicion of planning attacks - @AFP

Submitted 55 mins ago from www.news.com.au by editor

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...nd-city-mombasa/story-e6frfku0-1226406430170?

doctor_fungcool · Jun 23, 2012

Here are some headlines out of China

I don't have the links for these headlines....however, if the reader is interested, use google to gain further info.

China, Vietnam Escalate South China Sea Row

China calls Vietnam claim to islands "null and void"(this is a biggie)

China reaffirms constructive role in addressing Syrian conflict

China calls for sustained dialogs on Iran's nuclear issue

China accuses US of being behind the Iran nuclear 'crisis'

China, Russia said are not ready to drop Syria’s Assad regime(another biggie)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The country or countries that control the oil of the middle east will have free reign in controlling the world in every respect for the foreseeable future.

Who's bluffing and who isn't? Who would be willing to go nuclear and who wouldn't?

We'll know shortly.

mzkitty · Jun 23, 2012

doctor_fungcool said:
Plus there are massive war games taking place in Asia (South Korea and the U.S.). These games are taking place near the North Korean border.

As I've pointed out previously, the anniversary of the Korean war is June 25, 1950.

Sunday evening here at TB2k should be interesting to say the least.

Add this to that. Did I ever mention how much I hate the mid-east?

Tens of thousands of people gather in Cairo's Tahrir Square as protests continue against the military - @AJEnglish

Submitted 6 mins ago from www.aljazeera.com by editor

Head of Egypt's election commission says results from presidential vote to be announced Sunday - @AP

Submitted 21 mins ago from hosted.ap.org by editor

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

doctor_fungcool said:
Plus there are massive war games taking place in Asia (South Korea and the U.S.). These games are taking place near the North Korean border.

As I've pointed out previously, the anniversary of the Korean war is June 25, 1950.

Sunday evening here at TB2k should be interesting to say the least.

Doc.....

I am deeply concerned, and alarmed.

TB has become something I do not know. For the first time, in a very long time. I took the time to browse TB2000, instead of just coming in and posting the news, as I usually do.

Doc! I was ASTONISHED at the amount of pure Hate being displayed!

Before (when we 'experienced' internal difficulties; some event, seemingly completely disassociated with TB2000 occured. It was, and is errie(sp) how we "seemed" to project that a "Hard News Event" of disaster was in the offing.

But what I saw on the board Doc! That can/could only be called a "Disaster!"

If it (This racial hate contiues,) it will rip the heart out of TB2000!

Once upon a time (I did not relate to any one on this site - save to father Mike) In any case, as I was saying. At one point of my life, TB2000 was the sole, only thing I could "point out" to myself that some one actually needed me! And it, that imagined need by the members of TB2000, gave me a reason why I needed to get out of bed (refusing to use the damned wheel chair beside my bed, and hobble over to the computer (so as to make a news run posting(s).)

Time, time! Where has it all gone?

In any event Doc! I did manage to recover some part of my mobility (after an untold number of bottles of Ibuprophen.) And now I can at least "power walk" the 200 feet out to the post office mail box in the morning. But that is of no matter Doc... (It is MY concern and no one else's).

I will say though, that my mental retention was not affected; thusly I can and do still retain "the scanned materials"

I guess I have been rambling a bit Doc...

I must admit though Doc Funky. That I do not know if I care to be present when TB2000 bites the dust; nor do I want to witness the pure hate being displayed and members leaving it.

The Flying Dutchman

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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June 22, 2012 Updated: 2:02 p.m.

Gwynne Dyer:
Why Russia backs Assad

Assad must survive, not because he buys Russian arms and gives Russia a naval base in the Mediterranean,
but because his overthrow would be a precedent that, they imagine, might one day be used against them.

By GWYNNE DYER / London-based independent journalist
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/intervention-360290-regime-western.html

The decision last weekend by the United Nations Stabilization Mission in Syria to suspend its peace mission is fully justified: Its 300 unarmed observers were being prevented from visiting massacre sites by the Syrian army, and yet their mere presence created the false impression that the international community was "doing something." So now the international community will be under even greater pressure to "do something" else about the Syrian tragedy. That means military action against the Assad regime – but the Russians will veto that.

Russian diplomacy is not usually so clumsy. None of the Western great powers will actually send troops to intervene in Syria: the Syrian army is too strong, and the sectarian and ethnic divisions in the country are far too messy.

So why don't the Russians just promise to abstain in any U.N. Security Council vote on military intervention? No such vote will happen anyway, and Moscow would expose the hypocrisy of the Western powers that are pretending to demand action and blaming the Russians (and the Chinese) for being the obstacle.

It's stupid to bring such opprobrium on your own country when you don't have to, but both President Vladimir Putin's elective dictatorship in Russia and the Communist Party in China fear that one day they might face foreign intervention themselves. There must, therefore, be no legal precedent for international action against a regime that is merely murdering its own people on its own sovereign soil.

In reality, there is one kind of justice for the great powers and another for weaker states, and neither Moscow nor Beijing would ever face Western military intervention even if they were crushing nonviolent protests by their own people, let alone drowning an armed revolt in blood.

You only have to imagine the headlines that such an intervention would create to understand that the whole proposition is ridiculous. "Security Council votes to intervene in China to protect protesters from regime violence!" "American troops enter Russian cities to back anti-regime revolt!" Such headlines are only slightly less implausible than "Martians invade Vatican City, kidnap Pope!"

But we are dealing here with the nightmare fantasies of regimes that secretly know they are illegitimate. They never acknowledge it in public, and they don't discuss it directly even in private. But they know it nevertheless, and they understand that illegitimacy means vulnerability.

It doesn't matter that Russia or China can simply veto any U.N. resolution that is directed against them. It makes no difference that no sane government in the rest of the world would commit the folly of sending troops to intervene against either of these giants. Paranoid fears cannot be dissolved by the application of mere reason.

Both Vladimir Putin and the Chinese leadership are appalled by the growing influence of the "responsibility to protect" principle at the United Nations, which breaches the previously sacred doctrine of the absolute sovereignty of member states. "R2P" says that foreign intervention can be justifiable (with a Security Council resolution, of course) to stop huge human-rights abuses committed by member governments.

The Russian and Chinese vetoes on the Security Council give them complete protection from foreign military intervention, but they still worry about it. And they look with horror at the phenomenon of nonviolent revolutions that has been removing authoritarian regimes with such efficiency, from the ones that overthrew communist regimes in Eastern Europe and almost overthrew the Chinese regime in 1989 down to the Arab Spring uprisings of today.

Moscow and Beijing have convinced themselves that there is a Western "hidden hand" behind these uprisings, even though Western actions (like the U.S. backing for Egypt's President Mubarak that continued until almost the last minute of the revolution) and Western interests both argue otherwise.

Now, in Syria, they see both of these threats coalescing. First, for eight months, they watch strictly nonviolent protests – despite some thousands of killings by the Syrian state – undermine the Assad regime.

Then, when some of the protesters start fighting back, and the regime responds with even greater violence, bombarding city centers and committing open massacres of villagers, they hear the Western powers begin to talk about their "responsibility to protect," with the (deliberately misleading) implication that they are contemplating direct military intervention in Syria to stop it.

So Russia and China will veto any Security Council resolution that condemns the Assad regime, and certainly any resolution that hints at military intervention. Assad must survive, not because he buys a few billion dollars worth of Russian arms and gives Russia a naval base in the Mediterranean, but because his overthrow would be a precedent that, they imagine, might one day be used against them.

Utter nonsense, but it means that the Russians, in particular, will go on taking the blame for the U.N.'s immobility and lending cover to the West's pretense that it would act against Assad if only the Russians would get out of the way. They will protect Assad right down to the bitter end – and it may be very bitter, indeed.

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mzkitty · Jun 23, 2012

Dutch, some things are worthy of "hate." For lack of a better word.

I just said I "hate" the Mideast. I am correct in feeling that way.

I "hate" the black scum doing the things they are doing; I don't "hate" other black people.

The word HATE can be useful when no other word is appearing to convey how you feel. We are NOT a bunch of haters here, not really. We "hate" the situations that make us have to use the word hate.

IMO anyway.

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Turkey pledges action over plane

Jun 23 2012
http://www.denbighshirevisitor.com/news/uk-world-news/2012/06/23/105722-31245776/

Turkey's president has said his country will take "necessary" but unspecified action against Syria, a day after Damascus said it had brought down a Turkish military plane that had entered its airspace.

Abdullah Gul said that Turkey was still trying to establish the exact circumstances of the incident and whether the jet may have been brought down in Turkish territory.

The plane went down in the Mediterranean Sea about eight miles away from the Syrian town of Latakia, Turkey said.

The incident further escalated tensions between the two neighbours, which used to be allies before the Syrian revolt began in March 2011. Turkey has become one of the strongest critics of the Syrian regime's brutal response to the country's uprising.

Turkish media said that Syrian and Turkish coastguards are conducting a joint search mission for the jet's two missing crew members.

"No cover-up is possible," the state-run Anadolu Agency quoted Mr Gul as saying. "There is no doubt that the necessary steps will be taken."

Mr Gul did not elaborate on what those steps would be.

"Our investigation will focus on whether the plane was brought down within our borders or not," Mr Gul said. "Because the consequences could be quite serious, there will be no clear statement before the details (of the incident) are scrutinised."

The Turkish president added that it was "routine" for jets flying in high-speeds to violate other countries' airspaces for short periods of time.

Late on Friday, Syria's state-run news agency, SANA, said the military spotted an "unidentified aerial target" that was flying at a low altitude and at a high speed.

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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New Greece Cabinet Requests Austerity Deferral

Finance | June 23, 2012, Saturday
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=140609

The new Greek coalition cabinet led by PM Antonis Samaras has asked for a delay to the full imposition of austerity measures to satisfy Greece's bailout plan.

In an official document published Saturday, the government asks the EU and IMF to defer for 2 more years the requirement for such as the laying off of public servants.

As a whole, Greece's goverment has stated it hopes that a revision of the bailout plan will allow to delay "for at least two years" (i.e. until 2016) the reforms leading to budget revisions.

The new Greek coalition cabinet, comprising Samaras' rightist New Democracy, traditional leftists PASOK and smaller Democratic Left, was announced Thursday, following crucial general elections last Sunday.

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Saturday, 23 June 2012

Greek election declared null &
void by Athens Bar Association
http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2012/06/greek-election-declared-null-void-by.html

After all the excitement surrounding the nail-biting June 17th Greek election which resulted in New Democracy beating Syriza by a whisker, I'm just hearing that the Athens Bar Association (DSA) has declared it to be null and void due to the 2001 census being used instead of the recent 2011 one. This means that immigrants who have settled in Greece and are entitled to vote were deprived of the right to do so. Immigrants are more likely to vote left and their disenfranchisement means that the party of austerity and cuts should not have won.

The DSA statement, on The Slog website, says:

IOANNIS ADAMOPOULOS, President of the Athens Bar Association (DSA).
EXTREMELY SERIOUS CONTITUTIONAL FAILURE

‘The number of parliament members for every constituency being defined by presidential decree based on the legal population of the constituency that results according to the latest census, the results of the latest census are considered published based on the data gathered by the relevant services, one year after the date the census actually took place”.

In this case, the last census was completed by the National Committee of Statistics (ELSTAT) on 24th May 2011 – a date which is official, and confirmed beyond any doubt by a press release from ELSTAT.

Therefore, as a year has already passed since the last day of the completion of the above mentioned census, the number of parliamentary seats in every constituency should be defined based on the legal population of these constituencies, as derived, according to this census.

An extremely serious constitutional failure has occurred, as we estimate that substantial changes have occurred in the population distribution in every constituency in comparison with the previous census of 2001.

Not only the redistribution of the parliamentary seats in every constituency but also the redefinition of parliamentary representation of every party, is possibly at risk. In view of all the above, the DSA expresses its deep institutional concern regarding the risk of an acute constitutional crisis which is expected to cause damage to the function of the democratic institutions.’

This is, of course, not the first time that actions or omissions by ELSTAT required further investigation and criminal evaluation. We remind readers that already, since 29th September 2011, DSA has filed a law suit with regard to very serious offences committed by ELSTAT concerning the illegal overstatement of the revised deficit of 2009 to 15.4%, as a result of which we now see the subjection of Greece to the current Memorandum and the subsequent imposition of austerity and other measures on the Greek People.’’

If this turns out to be true, will they have to run another election or will they soldier on?

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Greek outlines issues it wants renegotiated

Associated Press
Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:19 am
http://www.stltoday.com/news/greek-...cle_596a034d-1ca8-5689-8206-6e182d26c28d.html

Greece's new coalition government has outlined a series of issues it aims to renegotiate in its international bailout agreement, seeking to repeal some taxes and cuts to benefits for those on low income.

The policy statement issued by the three-party coalition came as the country's new Prime Minister Antonis Samaras successfully underwent eye surgery and his finance minister, Vassilis Rapanos, remained hospitalized after collapsing on Friday.

Samaras, whose conservative New Democracy party came first in June 17 elections but did not win enough votes to form a government on its own, heads a government that includes his party's long-time socialist rivals, PASOK, and the small Democratic Left party.

The three parties agreed on a series of policies for their government, issued in a statement Saturday.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/news/greek-...ca8-5689-8206-6e182d26c28d.html#ixzz1ycd3xVJY

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Another Greek Tragedy:
Stuck In Limbo, Illegal
Immigrants Face Neo-Nazi Violence

Once a gateway for illegal immigrants hoping to hop a ferry to Europe, the Greek port of Patras is now a dead end, where refugees must now also face growing hostility from the popular Neo-Nazi political party Golden Dawn.

By Benoît Vitkine 
LE MONDE/Worldcrunch
http://www.worldcrunch.com/another-...llegal-immigrants-face-neo-nazi-violence/5644

PATRAS – One is dragging his foot, swollen and turning blue. The other shows his dislocated wrist and complains: “How will I work once I’m in Europe?” The third one is hiding, scared. A week ago, all three were attacked by plain-clothed men who assaulted them and shouted racist insults as they were coming back from another attempt to board a ship leaving from Patras Harbor for Italy.

Rachid, Khaled and Rafik don’t have the strength for another attempt. The three Algerians squat in the Piraiki Patraiki factory, a huge area of crumbling walls with abandoned shoes and pans. About 1000 Afghan, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and African refugees lived there until they were deported at the end of May.

About 200 meters from here, on May 19, an Afghan migrant stabbed a young Greek man to death during a fight. For three nights, angry locals soon joined by 300 helmeted young men armed with iron bars, besieged the factory. They were Golden Dawn activists – the neo-Nazi party that entered the Greek Parliament after the elections in May – who were brought here by busloads. The police broke up the fighting, and each side went back home with its wounded. Afterwards, the police came back to throw the migrants out.

"Their turn to sweat bullets"

Since then, Patras’ thousands of transiting migrants have gone underground, after being driven out from the city center by repeated assaults and obvious hostility. “Before, we were the ones who were scared, but now it’s their turn to sweat bullets,” rejoices Kostas, a fruit and vegetable vendor. Golden Dawn arrived in town four weeks ago and settled on Germany Street. Since anarchist activists ransacked their offices in March, its door remains closed most of the time.

“Dozens of people immediately joined the party, or other racist groups, as if they were just waiting for this,” says Harry, from the Praxis organization, which helps underage migrants. The organization, as well as three others migrant advocacy groups like it, had to stop working after the incidents: social workers, who feel threatened, don’t walk around town looking for migrants anymore; in any case, most of them have gone into hiding.

Twenty-three-year-old Soufiane ventures in the city center for the first time in five days. The young man arrived a year and a half ago, and is waiting to embark for France. In the meantime, he takes Greek lessons, provided by Praxis. “It’s just in case I have to stay,” he explains.

He is not really reassured by his last encounter with “fascists.” They asked him if he was Moroccan and then let him go: “First, we are going to deal with the Afghans. Then it’s going to be your turn.”

To find the Afghans, you need to leave town, and go deep into the tall bush that covers the Gulf of Corinth’s dunes. Here, about thirty teenagers are slumped in the shadow of a tarpaulin, next to a roofless building. Half of them came after the Piraiki Patraiki events. Seventeen-year-old Abdullah is the oldest here: he arrived in Greece seven years ago with his older brother, who has since left for Sweden. Each paid 4,000 euros to make the trip from Kabul and across the Evros River, which is the natural border between Greece and Turkey.

The gateway to Europe

In 2011, 57,000 people were stopped by the Greek police and the European Union agency Frontex (which stands for European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union), as they tried to cross this 200-kilometer border. Since Italy and Spain have strengthened border controls, Frontex considers that 90% of illegal immigrants enter the European Union via Greece. Patras is something like the wide side of a funnel: its ferries leaving every day for Italy make it one of the main exit doors of the country.

After the incidents and with the elections, the municipality decided to do some housecleaning. Hundreds of migrants were arrested and sent all over Greece. Nineteen-year-old Ahmed was sent to Athens by bus. He walked all the way back to Patras. According to concurring sources, many buses don’t go all the way to Athens: the immigrants are left in the middle of nowhere, relieved of their money and phone. The same sources hint at violent beatings. “When we go to police stations to apply for asylum, we sometimes meet migrants with bruised faces. But no one will tell us what happened to them,” Katerina Skilakou, from the Regional Institute for Migrations, points out.

To cope with Athens’ sins – there’s only one detention center in the capital – and after condemnation from the European Court of Human Rights, several European countries stopped sending migrants back to Greece. The country is unable to deal with the approximately 400,000 illegal immigrants living on its soil – in addition to more than a million legal immigrants, for 11 million inhabitants. Those who receive their deportation order have 30 days to leave the country – but usually just vanish into thin air. Concerning asylum seekers, only a few of them are processed and it can take years to obtain a visa.

A little farther down the beach, we meet 16-year-old Firoz and Bashir, who arrived together from the Afghan province of Kunduz eight months ago. They don’t try their luck on the harbor anymore: “It has become impossible to embark on a boat, they have installed cameras and the security guards have become very fierce. We are trapped here!”

As we walk towards the city, beach umbrellas replace the makeshift camps we saw further down the beach. Fred walks between towels, trying to sell the counterfeit watches he bought 5 euros for 7 euros. This Nigerian is an exception: he chose Greece, “the country of culture.” He arrived six months ago, and spent four months going from police stations to detention centers. “When I finally left, I was as skinny as skeleton, and I still had no idea what they were on about.” While he was in detention, on every scrap of paper or cardboard he could find, Fred wrote songs: “Greece is a wonderful country/Lord, give her the wisdom,” he sings softly.

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Risk of Greek blackouts increases
as traders cut or halt power supplies

Power traders in at least four countries have reduced or halted electricity exports to Greece due to non-payments, helping to
force market prices sharply higher in a potential blow to struggling industries and raising the risk of blackouts during the tourist season.

Greece imported more than 10pc of its power demand in the third quarter of 2011,
which includes the summer when heavy air-conditioning use boosts consumption.

Reuters
5:18PM BST 22 Jun 2012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...es-as-traders-cut-or-halt-power-supplies.html

With Greece deep in crisis, power grid operator LAGHE owes foreign and domestic suppliers 3 27 million euros ($410 million), a court document obtained by Reuters showed, as its revenue falls due to the recession and a refusal by many Greeks to pay their bills.

Trading sources said that at least four trading companies in Switzerland, Italy, Bulgaria and Germany have either lowered or cut off sales to Greece due to high credit risk and delays in payments over the past 2-3 months for power they sold.

"We have stopped power sales to Greece," said Claus Urbanke, head of new markets at Statkraft, a Nordic utility which trades electricity throughout Europe.

"We have quite considerably reduced volumes in order to control risk exposure in Greece due to the delays of payments by the market operator," said a Swiss-based trader.

The traders asked not to be identified or their companies named as they are not authorised to speak to the press.

Greece imported more than 10pc of its power demand in the third quarter of 2011, which includes the summer when heavy air-conditioning use boosts consumption.

Already the drop in imports has affected the internal Greek power market dramatically. Prices there are usually 30-40 euros per megawatt-hour for baseload (24-hour) delivery but prices for Saturday settled as high as 96 euros in some hourly trading slots, with traders citing a combination of the import cuts and hot weather as the reason.

Industrial consumers who are suffering as Greece endures its fifth year of recession usually buy power on long-term contracts and are not immediately affected by power market moves. However, if the prices remain high, they will eventually get passed on to companies that are often struggling for survival.

Greece is connected to the Italian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Albanian and Turkish e lectricity markets and sometimes exports excess power to its neighbours.

Not all imports have been affected. Some suppliers from Bulgaria, including its state-owned power company NEK, said they were not experiencing any delays in Greek payments and that the trade continued.

However, if a sharp drop in imports were to coincide with a prolonged heatwave, power supplies might be cut during the peak season for tourism, one of the few major foreign exchange earners for the uncompetitive Greek economy.

Altogether 16 million tourists visited Greece last year. The holiday sector accounts for 15 percent of economic output and one in five jobs in a country where unemployment has hit a record high of almost 22 percent.

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danielboon · Jun 23, 2012

you are absolutely correct Dutch

mzkitty · Jun 23, 2012

Iranian general: military strike would be the end of Israel - Fars news agency via @Reuters

Submitted 6 mins ago from in.reuters.com by editor

-----------

Iranian general: military strike would be the end of Israel

By Marcus George

DUBAI | Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:45pm IST

(Reuters) - A high-ranking Iranian general said on Saturday Israeli military action against Iran's nuclear programme would lead to the collapse of the Jewish state, Fars news agency reported.

Last week's round of nuclear talks between Iran and world powers in Moscow failed to secure a breakthrough, heightening fears Israel might take unilateral military action to curb Iran's nuclear activities.

The two sides agreed to a follow-up meeting of technical experts on July 3, saving the process from outright failure.

"They cannot do the slightest harm to the (Iranian) revolution and the system," Brigadier General Mostafa Izadi, deputy chief of staff of Iran's armed forces, told Fars.

"If the Zionist regime takes any (military) actions against Iran, it would result in the end of its labours," he added.

"If they act logically, such threats amount to a psychological war but if they want to act illogically, it is they who will be destroyed."

Izadi's comments are an apparent response to Israeli Vice Prime Minister Shaul Mofaz's calls for tougher sanctions against Tehran and his indication that military action was still an option.

Analysts say Iranian officials use such rhetoric as a way of stoking Western concerns of chaos in the Middle East and the disruption of oil supplies in the event of military action.

During negotiations in Moscow the six powers - the United States, China, Russia, France, Britain and Germany - demanded Iran scale back its nuclear work and, in particular, stop enriching uranium to levels that could bring it close to making an atom bomb.

The demands included the shutting down of the Fordow underground uranium enrichment facility and the shipping of any stockpile out of the country.

In return, they offered fuel to keep Iran's medical isotope reactor running, assistance in nuclear safety and an end to a ban on spare parts for Iran's ageing civilian aircraft.

Iran denies its work has any military purpose and says the powers should offer it relief from sanctions and acknowledge its right to enrich uranium before it meets their demands.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/06/23/iran-israel-threat-idINDEE85M05F20120623

The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Greece coalition seeks to extend
austerity deadlines by two years

ELENA BECATOROS
ATHENS, Greece — The Associated Press
Published Saturday, Jun. 23 2012, 10:22 AM EDT
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...terity-deadlines-by-two-years/article4366171/

Greece's new coalition government said Saturday it will seek to repeal some taxes, halt layoffs and extend by two years the deadlines for tough austerity measures imposed under its international bailout agreement.

The policy statement issued by the three-party coalition came as the country's new Prime Minister Antonis Samaras successfully underwent eye surgery and his finance minister, Vassilis Rapanos, remained hospitalized after collapsing Friday.

“The general aim is no more cuts to salaries and pensions, no more taxes,” the statement said, adding that it would not carry out any public sector layoffs.

Mr. Samaras, whose conservative New Democracy party came first in June 17 elections but did not win enough votes to govern alone, heads a government that includes his party's long-time socialist rivals, PASOK, and the small Democratic Left party.

The creation of a government following two inconclusive national elections ended weeks of political uncertainty that had led to fears of Greece being forced out of Europe's joint currency. Such an event could have dragged down other financially troubled European countries along with the continent's economy.

While pledging to stick to the country's bailout agreement with other European countries and the International Monetary Fund, all three parties had said they would seek to renegotiate certain terms of the loan agreement.

Greece is mired in the fifth year of a deep recession, and has seen unemployment spiral to above 22 per cent. Widespread anger with rapidly falling living standards led to a massive increase in support for anti-bailout parties in the last two elections.

The new government will aim to extend by at least two years the deadlines for it to impose tough fiscal reforms “to support demand, development (and) employment,” it said.

“This way the final fiscal target can be achieved without further cuts to salaries and pensions or the public investment program, but through curbing waste and the targeted fighting of corruption, tax evasion” and the black economy.

The statement said it would seek to reduce consumer tax on the restaurant industry and for agriculture and extend one-year unemployment benefit by another year.

It will also seek to extend unemployment benefit to the self-employed who have lost their businesses and gradually increase the tax-free income limit to European averages.

The new coalition government said it would seek to restore collective wage agreements “to the level defined by European social law” and review cuts to the minimum wage, which had been slashed by 22 per cent earlier this year to about €580 ($727 U.S.) a month as part of negotiations for Greece's second bailout package.

The government will also aim to replace the numerous property taxes currently in place with a single tax.

Debt inspectors from the European Commission, European Central Bank and IMF are due to return to the Greek capital Athens Monday to review the country's fiscal situation and resume talks that had been put on hold during the country's nearly two-month political deadlock.

Whether the new government can deliver on its renegotiating pledges will depend on how they are viewed by their international creditors. Germany, the largest single contributor to Greece's bailout, has repeatedly said Athens must stick to its austerity targets.

The policy statement was issued shortly after Mr. Samaras underwent surgery to repair a detached retina. Separately, Mr. Rapanos, the newly appointed finance minister, was still being treated in a private hospital after being rushed there Friday complaining of nausea, intense abdominal pain, dizziness and weakness.

A hospital statement Saturday said Mr. Rapanos had been submitted to tests, the results of which were “very satisfactory,” and that his condition was “stable and improving”.

It did not say what he was suffering from, or give any further details on his condition, other than to say his treatment would continue. It was unclear how long he would remain hospitalized.

Mr. Rapanos, who was named to the post Thursday, has not been sworn in to office yet. His swearing in ceremony had been scheduled for Friday evening, but was postponed due to his illness.

Mr. Samaras faces his first test to his pledges to renegotiate some of the bailout terms next week, when he is due to go to Brussels for a European Union summit on June 28-29.

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The Flying Dutchman · Jun 23, 2012

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Pretext to Wage War on Syria.
Turkey and the Gulf of Tonkin Redux?

by Stephen Lendman
Global Research, June 23, 2012
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=LEN20120623&articleId=31556

Lyndon Johnson wanted war on Vietnam and got it.

The August 1964 false flag Gulf of Tonkin incident initiated full-scale conflict after Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

War was authorized without declaring it.

It's an American tradition. Big lies launch wars. Manufactured pretexts initiate them. Mass killing and destruction follow.

One nation after another is ravaged. Syria's next, then Iran, followed by other states on Washington's hit list.

On June 22, Turkey provocatively flew two warplanes at low altitude over Syrian airspace. It wanted a response and got it.

On June 23, Syria's SANA state media headlined "Military Spokesman: Anti-Air Defenses Intercepted a Target That Violated Syrian Airspace Over Territorial Waters, Shot It Down West of Lattakia," saying:

"At 11:40 AM on 22/6/2012, an unidentified aerial target violated Syrian airspace, coming from the west at a very low altitude and at high speed over territorial waters, so the Syrian anti-air defenses counteracted with anti-aircraft artillery, hitting it directly as it was 1 kilometer away from land, causing it to crash into Syrian territorial waters west of Om al-Tuyour village in Lattakia province, 10 kilometers from the beach."

Syria's military spokesman also said naval forces from both countries were "searching for the two missing pilots."

Some media sources said both crew members were rescued. Others said they're still missing.

On June 23, Turkey's Today's Zaman headlined "Turkey says Syria down(ed) its air force jet," saying:

The incident will "likely....worsen already strained relations between" both countries.

After a two hour security meeting, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan blamed Syrian forces for downing its aircraft. An official statement said:

"Following the evaluation of data provided by our related institutions and the findings of the joint search and rescue efforts with Syria, it is understood that our plane was downed by Syria."

Turkey "will determinedly take necessary steps" in response. No further details were given.

At the time of its report, Today's Zaman said both crew members were missing. It added that Ankara wouldn't "tolerate any action that it deemed violating its security."

Turkish TV reports said two military aircraft were on a reconnaissance mission.

In fact, Ankara acted provocatively. Perhaps it was at the behest of Washington. Turkey is a NATO member. A previous article explained it can invoke NATO Charter Articles 4 or 5.

Article 4 calls for members to "consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence, or security of any" is threatened.

Article 5 considers an armed attack (real or otherwise) against one or more members, an attack against all, and calls for collective self-defense.

On June 23, Reuters headlined "Turkey warns it would respond decisively to Syria downing it aircraft," saying:

Erdogan's "initial comments and subsequent statement (were) measured in tone. He said Turkish and Syrian forces were working together to search for the two missing crew of the aircraft."

Turkish media also said Syria apologized for the incident.

"Turkish state television interviewed witnesses on the country's Mediterranean coast, near the Syrian border, who said they saw two low-flying fighter jets pass overhead in the morning in the direction of Syrian waters but only one return."

Syrian Foreign Ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi said:

"There was no aggression." Damascus confirmed "an unidentified target flying at very low range when it violated Syrian airspace." He added that both sides were searching for missing crew members.

The New York Times said an official Turkish statement hadn't "yet concluded that the Syrian action was provocative, and it acknowledged that Syrian rescue teams were cooperating in trying to locate the aircraft and crew."

"But the statement also left open the possibility that Turkey, a NATO member, would respond militarily, an outcome that could further complicate and widen the Syrian conflict."

Washington has longstanding regime change plans. In early 2011, it orchestrated Western-generated violence.

It wants Assad replaced by a subservient puppet leader. If events on the ground don't succeed, expect war to follow.

The Obama and Erdogan administrations may have staged Friday's incident. Whether it's a pretext for full-scale intervention remains to be seen.

Events on the ground keep escalating dangerously. Anything may erupt anytime. Provocations are easy to stage.

Friday's incident may indeed become a casus belli. If not, perhaps something greater is planned to give Obama another war he wants. What better way to silence his Republican critics who call him soft on Assad.

On June 22, Foreign Policy's associate editor Uri Friedman headlined "How would NATO respond to Syria shooting down a Turkish plane?" saying:

"Could this incident -- or an incident like it -- trigger more aggressive action against Syria by the international community? After all, Turkey is a member of NATO...."

Its Charter affirms its all-for-one-and-one-for-all policy. Attacking one member is considered acting against all 28. Collective self-defense is called for.

On September 12, 2001, NATO invoked Article V for the first time. Will Syria be number two? If Turkey claims Damascus acted aggressively, will war follow?

"It is not an entirely unreasonable" possibility, said Friedman.

In April, Erdogan suggested he might invoke Article V. Whether he plans it now remains to be seen.

According to former UN Permanent Representative to NATO Kurt Volker, Article V gives NATO countries a chance to consult with one another on possible responses. It doesn't automatically suggest a military one.

"A response could be anything from a statement reiterating the inviolability of security guarantees to members coordinating activities so that they can respond to further attacks on Turkish interests."

Volker doesn't think Friday's incident justifies war. At the same time, the ball advanced closer to initiating it without Security Council authorization.

One way would be by creating Syrian "safe zones," providing greater opposition support, and conducting air strikes against strategic military sites.

"I do get the feeling," he added, "that the patience of the international community is growing thinner."

"I think we may be approaching a point at which this kind of coalition intervention is more thinkable than it was a couple of months ago."

Atlantic Council managing editor James Joyner also doesn't believe Friday's incident justifies war.

"It would be one thing if Syria sent ground troops into Turkey and started shooting," he said.

In contrast, "shooting down a plane that might have been surveilling Syrian air space is just a different animal than that."

"This is more of a harsh words and sanctions kind of thing, and frankly there's not much more of that that we can do in terms of Syria."

On June 23, UK government controlled BBC headlined "Turkish warplane downed by Syria 'may have crossed border,' " saying:

Turkish President Abdullah Gul said its aircraft may have violated Syrian airspace. Doing so isn't unusual for short distances at high speed, he added.

"It is routine for jet fighters to sometimes fly in and out over (other) borders....when you consider their speed over the sea," he claimed.

"These are not ill-intentioned things but happen beyond control due to the jets' speed."

Unexplained was that it's one thing for peaceful neighbors occasionally to violate each other's airspace without authorization.

No harm, no foul.

It's quite another given months of intense violence in Syria and Turkey's direct role.

Moreover, violating another country's airspace by trying to avoid its defensive capabilities at low altitude shows clear hostile intent.

Damascus has every right to consider these type actions aggressive and threatening. Turkey would react the same way. So would Washington, key NATO partners and Israel.

A virtual state of war exists in Syria short of officially declaring it. These type incidents can easily be used as pretexts for full-blown conflict. It remains to be seen if Washington has that in mind.

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CGTech · Jun 23, 2012

The Flying Dutchman said:
Doc.....

I am deeply concerned, and alarmed.

TB has become something I do not know. For the first time, in a very long time. I took the time to browse TB2000, instead of just coming in and posting the news, as I usually do.

Doc! I was ASTONISHED at the amount of pure Hate being displayed!

Before (when we 'experienced' internal difficulties; some event, seemingly completely disassociated with TB2000 occured. It was, and is errie(sp) how we "seemed" to project that a "Hard News Event" of disaster was in the offing.

But what I saw on the board Doc! That can/could only be called a "Disaster!"

If it (This racial hate contiues,) it will rip the heart out of TB2000!

Once upon a time (I did not relate to any one on this site - save to father Mike) In any case, as I was saying. At one point of my life, TB2000 was the sole, only thing I could "point out" to myself that some one actually needed me! And it, that imagined need by the members of TB2000, gave me a reason why I needed to get out of bed (refusing to use the damned wheel chair beside my bed, and hobble over to the computer (so as to make a news run posting(s).)

Time, time! Where has it all gone?

In any event Doc! I did manage to recover some part of my mobility (after an untold number of bottles of Ibuprophen.) And now I can at least "power walk" the 200 feet out to the post office mail box in the morning. But that is of no matter Doc... (It is MY concern and no one else's).

I will say though, that my mental retention was not affected; thusly I can and do still retain "the scanned materials"

I guess I have been rambling a bit Doc...

I must admit though Doc Funky. That I do not know if I care to be present when TB2000 bites the dust; nor do I want to witness the pure hate being displayed and members leaving it.

The Flying Dutchman

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I share your concern Dutch. Is it wrong to stand against the bigotry and hate against us (regular folk just trying to make their way in the world)..? No. Only a strong show of force will deter a bully sometimes. But is it wrong to demonstrate that same hate and bigotry against others, even though they threaten us? I would have to say... Yes. Is this really the way that the Lord Jesus would want us to behave towards our fellow man? No. I have been seriously disturbed by what I am starting to see on this board, it is, I think, a microcosm of what society itself is becoming - packs of wolves rising up against each other to tear the other apart in fear... I don't know where this will end, but suspect it will only get worse until Jesus Himself returns to stop it....

WAR 06/23 to 06/29 ***The***Winds***0f***WAR***

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Global Moderator

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Has No Life - Lives on TB

WAR 06/23 to 06/29 TheWinds0fWAR***