For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
https://news.usni.org/2019/01/08/navy-quietly-fires-20-hyper-velocity-projectiles-destroyers-deckgun
Navy Quietly Fires 20 Hyper Velocity Projectiles Through Destroyer’s Deckgun
By: Sam LaGrone
January 8, 2019 12:42 PM
Last summer USS Dewey (DDG-105) fired 20 hyper velocity projectiles (HVP) from a standard Mk 45 5-inch deck gun in a quiet experiment that’s set to add new utility to the weapon found on almost every U.S. warship, officials familiar with the test have told USNI News.
The test, conducted by the Navy and the Pentagon’s Strategic Capabilities Office as part of the Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2018 international exercise, was part of a series of studies to prove the Navy could turn the more than 40-year-old deck gun design into an effective and low-cost weapon against cruise missiles and larger unmanned aerial vehicles.
While the HVP was originally designed to be the projectile for the electromagnetic railgun, the Navy and the Pentagon see the potential for a new missile defense weapon that can launch a guided round at near-hypersonic speeds.
Currently, the fleet uses a combination of missiles – like the Evolved Seasparrow Missile, the Rolling Airframe Missile and the Standard Missile 2 – to ward off cruise missile threats. The missiles are effective but also expensive, Bryan Clark with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments told USNI News on Monday.
In 2016, guided-missile destroyer USS Mason (DDG-87) fired three missiles to ward off two suspected Iranian cruise missiles fired from Houthi rebels in the Red Sea, in what amounted to a multi-million dollar engagement.
“So if you think about the kinds of threats you might face in the Middle East, the lower-end cruise missiles or a larger UAV, now you have a way to shoot them down that doesn’t require you use a $2 million ESSM or $1 million RAM because a hyper velocity projectile – even in the highest-end estimates have it in the $75,000 to $100,000 range, and that’s for the fanciest version of it with an onboard seeker,” he said.
An added benefit of using HVP in powder guns is the gun’s high rate of fire and a large magazine capacity.
“You can get 15 rounds a minute for an air defense mission as well as a surface-to-surface mission,” Clark said. “That adds significant missile defense capacity when you think that each of those might be replacing a ESSM or a RAM missile. They’re a lot less expensive.”
The HVP is also being investigated to use with ground-based 155mm artillery pieces for the Army and the Marines to provide limited air defense options for forward-deployed troops in austere environments. HVPs could also find a home aboard the Navy’s Zumwalt-class destroyers as a replacement round for the classes 155mm Advanced Gun System.
While officials confirmed to USNI News that the RIMPAC test was unclassified, both the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the Office of Naval Research would not acknowledge the test when asked by USNI News. A spokeswoman for OSD referred USNI News to the Navy.
“I don’t have anything for you,” an ONR spokesman told USNI News on Monday. HVP manufacturer BAE Systems referred USNI News to the Navy when contacted.
In 2016, William Roper, who then headed the SCO, said the promise of ONR’s HVP work had been recognized by the Navy and the Army and changed the way the Pentagon office thought about the evolution of the railgun.
“We now think that we can do pretty revolutionary things with existing powder guns – think howitzers, Paladins, the Navy’s five-inch guns. We’ve shifted emphasis to that,” Roper said during a 2016 talk at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
“We have [more than] a 1,000 powder guns, we have very few railguns.”
Updated: Navy Researching Firing Mach 3 Guided Round from Standard Deck Guns
June 1, 2015
In "Budget Industry"
Pentagon: New Rounds For Old Guns Could Change Missile Defense for Navy, Army
July 18, 2016
In "Budget Industry"
NAVSEA Details At Sea 2016 Railgun Test on JHSV Trenton
April 14, 2015
In "Budget Industry"
Comments
RunningBear • 26 minutes ago
The 2018 congressional report addressed the Gun Launched Guided Projectile/ GLGP where it revised the term Hyper Velocity Projectile/HVP from the Railgun program at $85k each. " Mission performance will vary from gun system, launcher, or ship. HVP’s low drag aerodynamic design enables high velocity, maneuverability, and decreased time-to-target. These attributes coupled with accurate guidance electronics provide low cost mission effectiveness against current threats and the ability to adapt to air and surface threats of the future."
These shipboard, multiple demonstrations of the lower cost GLGP is representative of the various calibers where the USN has 113+ barrels of the 5" MK45 Mod2/4, and the US Army/Marines have 1,100+ barrels of the 155mm/6".
My favorite is in one opinion column reference; "It takes 300 seconds to pick up such a launched missile’s signature, the missile must be tracked and a vector calculated for defensive projectiles. A single 25-pound projectile can dispense more than 500 three-gram tungsten impactors and be fired at hypervelocity by "electromagnetic" energy. Their impact force—their mass times the square of their velocity—can destroy expensive missiles and multiple warheads." Obviously, the 5" would be a subset of these. Couple the GLGP with the ability to network the various sensor technologies from aircraft and shipboard radars and the detection, tracking and final guidance would be greatly enhanced by CEC and NIFC-CA.
The Silver Bullet has arrived and revitalized the lowly 5" naval cannon.
IMHO
Fly Navy
2
•
Reply
•
Share ›
waveshaper1 RunningBear • 13 minutes ago
That's a great source of info on this subject; The way I understand it "now" after reading this source is (I could be wrong); The round fired out of the MK45 is now classified as a "GLGP" due to it not having a high enough muzzle velocity/velocity (fps) to meet the requirement/standard to be classified as a HVP? On the other hand, the same round fired from a Railgun has more then enough velocity to be classified as a HVP?
•
Reply
•
Share ›
ElmCityAle • 21 hours ago
If the new tech works and is cost-effective, the Mk 45 might have a valuable purpose for the first time in many years. It's utility in combat has been quite limited, the only real target being the Iranian platforms decades ago and it's efficacy arguable even for that mission.
2
•
Reply
•
Share ›
ARCNA442 ElmCityAle • 21 hours ago
The Mk 45 put in some good work off Lebanon as well, but for the last couple of decades it really has been little more than a relic of an age when plentiful land attack missiles didn't exist.
1
•
Reply
•
Share ›
navweap • a day ago
What all the fuzz is about?
The HVP is just a fancy name for a typical sub-caliber or armor-piercing rounds, such as tungsten-made APFSDS. The APFSDS are routinely fired at "hypervelocities" up to 1700 m/s (Mach=5) from a standard smooth-bore guns, such as M256.
Or, maybe, the contractors are just trying to squeeze more money from the govennment pretending they did invent a new "game-changing" wunderwaffe?
)
2
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Marauder 2048 navweap • a day ago
Yeah...all of those guided AFPSDS rounds out there. Just tons of those with onboard seekers!
5
•
Reply
•
Share ›
navweap Marauder 2048 • 21 hours ago
No guided HVP version exists yet, so it is not much different from a standard APFSDS rod.
Yes, there are plans to made it guided, but the cost is likely to be on par with Excalibur. But its impact energy would likely be less than the blast energy of Excalibur - just because it is designed to have smaller or no bursting charge inside. So what is an advantage of HVP, except having higher muzzle velocity than of Excalibur (but still less than of APFSDS)?
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Marauder 2048 navweap • 21 hours ago
There are no plans for a production unguided HVP beyond the inert, purely ballistic slugs used for testing.
"Yes, there are plans to made it guided, but the cost is likely to be on par with Excalibur. "
As ably set out in the article. RAM Block II, ESSM, Standard etc are substantially more expensive.
" So what is an advantage of HVP, except having higher muzzle velocity"
What's the advantage of a high muzzle velocity AAW guided weapon? Uh..
•
Reply
•
Share ›
navweap Marauder 2048 • 20 hours ago
You probably missed the point - there is NOTHING "revolutionary" in such design of sub-caliber rounds, except adding the guiding capabilities. But this is not something unique - just look at the Vulcano rounds (actually, they even have larger bursting charge than proposed for HVP).
And for the AAW mission - don't compare HVP to ESSM etc, because
the HVP would have only passive flight-control system (by fins) which has limited capabilities for fast maneuvering in comparison with missiles.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Marauder 2048 navweap • 16 hours ago
Tell us more about those other guided, conical, moving tail fin, sub-caliber hypervelocity rounds.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
navweap Marauder 2048 • 15 hours ago
What's so fancy about conical? It is a standard shape, I would be more amazed to see something like this:
apps. dtic. mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a054735.pdf
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Marauder 2048 navweap • 10 hours ago
"What's so fancy about conical? It is a standard shape"
Then feel free to name some guided gun launched projectiles of that form.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Bubblehead Marauder 2048 • 21 hours ago
That is what the article didn't address. Was the USN firing nothing but APFSDS rounds or did they actually fire hyper Velocity that were guided. Big difference.
You have to wonder what type of guidance the USN is looking at initially? IR? Radar?
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Centaurus navweap • 18 hours ago
Let's all praise that Kinetic Energy = 1/2 M x V squared
3
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Curtis Conway navweap • a day ago
That Mk45 is a rifled barrel too.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Duane • 13 hours ago
Having a precision guided round for the 5 in gun is itself the major benefit ... particularly if it is capable of engaging moving targets. The hyper velocity aspect mostly affects range and payload ... i.e., longer and lesser, respectively.
As of today, the only naval gun capable of engaging moving targets with precision guided rounds is the Mk 110 57 mm using either ORKA or ALAMO shells.
1
•
Reply
•
Share ›
ARCNA442 Duane • 11 hours ago
The Italians have the DART round for their 76mm as well.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Duane ARCNA442 • 4 hours ago
OK, then I qualify that by saying that the 57mm is the only naval gun round with bi-modal precision targeting against moving targets. DART is single mode, RF only.
ORKA and ALAMO are both capable of hitting moving targets, using a combination of either laser guided or imaging IR.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Bravo Zulu • a day ago
Not only are these puppies fast and accurate but they are also silent...
1
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Mark Keller • 39 minutes ago
Wow that makes way too much sense! Can't believe that the Navy went for it?
•
Reply
•
Share ›
RobM1981 • an hour ago
"Navy quietly fires 20 hyper velocity projectiles..."
Something tells me that it wasn't all that quiet.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
windell • an hour ago
I'm amazed at all the weapons experts on here.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
TeXan1111 • an hour ago
Let's mark for T5 Canon system will be very effective if we can get it to shoot a thousand rounds a minute similar to our Phalanx Cannon system. Otherwise it's just like flushing hundred dollar bills down the toilet. When the porter was attacked with a single silkworm missile, all of the essm and SM to muscles missed the advanced silkworm muscle Heaven Help Us if we have an attack by an advanced country more advanced than Somalia or Hootie
•
Reply
•
Share ›
RTColorado • 2 hours ago
....less expensive alternative to ESSM or RAM....at $ 75,000 to $ 100,000 at pop (like any contractor is going to sell them to the Navy at $ 75,000) it's an unguided round that will require several rounds fired to obtain a hit...so, why not send an ESSM/RAM and skip spending the time money and effort developing a round no one is going to trust their ship's defense to when they have ESSM/RAM on board.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Paladin • 3 hours ago
Nothing gets all the "weapons engineers" who comment on your site more excited than a new item that they can weigh-in on. Thanks Sam, some of us are interested in following this development.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Rocco • 15 hours ago
I guess the author ( Sam ) is not aware that only one class of ship uses the 5 " gun!! Except the few Ticos left in service. 57mm anyone!!! Here Duane Duane!!
•
Reply
•
Share ›
USNVO Rocco • 14 hours ago
The Few Ticos? So 22 of 27 constructed is few?
And as for the Burkes, there are almost a hundred in service or planned for. So there are more 5in gunned ship in service now than at anytime since the massive decommissioning of the Knox class frigates started in 1991.
5
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Matthew Schilling • 20 hours ago
Why does the Navy use a 5" gun vs. a more standard 155 mm?
If HVP rounds will make the gun more useful (vs. a "relic" as someone called it below) then would upgrading to 155 mm make sense? It would mean an approx 20% larger shell, which should mean more range and more impact. (Of course, a larger shell might mean a smaller inventory)
•
Reply
•
Share ›
ARCNA442 Matthew Schilling • 20 hours ago
Because 5" has been the standard Navy caliber since 1921, when the Army was still using 75mm, and the current 5" round actually dates from 1950, when the Army was using 105mm. You have to have a pretty good reason to abandon a round that has been in service that long - especially since ships last 30+ years so you will be dealing with two separate supply lines for decades after the change.
Second, Navy 155mm ammo wouldn't be compatible with Army 155mm ammo because Navy guns are automated and fire metallic cased ammo while Army guns are manually operated and use powder bags. So the standardization would be in name only (as discovered with Zumwalt, which does use 155mm guns).
Third, if you are going bigger, why not keep going and bump up to 8" (or even larger)? That will bring even more firepower and ships are big enough to handle it with ease.
3
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Matthew Schilling ARCNA442 • 13 hours ago
(Actually, I think the Navy should have 8" guns in the fleet today)
3
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Phil Gardocki ARCNA442 • 2 hours ago
The fleet built a test 8" gun and put it on the USS Hull. The gun was too powerful, and wound up working it's way backwards through the frames. So the structure of of the ship has to be taken into account. You can't just drop a bigger gun in.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Rocco Matthew Schilling • 15 hours ago
No because a gun that large wouldn't fit on Berk class ship! DD
•
Reply
•
Share ›
USNVO Rocco • 14 hours ago
Hardly, the MK71 8in gun was tested on the USS HULL (DD-945) which isn't even half the displacement of the DDG-51 and was designed to fit in the same footprint as the MK45. There have also been a proposed lite version of the AGS that could replace the MK45 without issue. The biggest concern has always been the cost and logistics of any change over to a new gun.
2
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Hugh USNVO • 4 hours ago
And recoil and structural strength? The Germans reportedly had issues when they trialled a 155mm tank turret on one of their ships some years ago.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
USNVO Hugh • 2 hours ago
It is possible of course, but there is plenty of space for it.
The MK71 was designed as a naval mount, specifically to fit in the space needed for a MK42 or MK45 as opposed to being an army howitzer mounted in the space of a 76mm gun. It was tested on the HULL (a ship less than half the displacement as the DDG-51) without any unsurmountable issues and was planned to be fitted to the SPRUANCE class (forward mount) until the program was cancelled.
The MK71 wasn't cancelled because it wasn't working, by all accounts it worked fine during trials and the three years it was carried on the ship.
1
•
Reply
•
Share ›
David Oldham Hugh • 3 hours ago
The Germans have issues keeping their ships working......
1
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Matthew Schilling David Oldham • an hour ago
Unfortunately, we don't have much room for acting superior in that regard.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Ed L • 20 hours ago
Buy buy buy. On the second thought maybe the Taiwanese can make them cheaper for us.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Corporatski Kittenbot 2.0 • a day ago
Anyone know what speed a conventional round leaves the 5" barrel at?
•
Reply
•
Share ›
ARCNA442 Corporatski Kittenbot 2.0 • 21 hours ago
2750 fps for the 5"/62 or 2650 fps for the 5"/54
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Corporatski Kittenbot 2.0 ARCNA442 • 19 hours ago
Cool... thanks.
So, about mach 2.4
So, this more-or-less doubles the velocity of the standard round.
Possibly useful, but I'm unsure its a game changer.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
USNVO Corporatski Kittenbot 2.0 • 13 hours ago
If you can get mach 4 at the muzzle with a guided round, you can easily average Mach 2+ plus out to the horizon. That is about what you get with ESSM. If the price is as low as they seem to think is possible (roughly 1/20 the cost or less than ESSM), that potentially makes air defense dramatically better. If nothing else, it dramatically improves the effectiveness of you gun in air defense missions over VT-frag or VT-IR.
3
•
Reply
•
Share ›
ARCNA442 Corporatski Kittenbot 2.0 • 19 hours ago
I don't think the speed is really the selling point compared to the 50+ mile range that speed gives.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
LT Rusty ARCNA442 • 16 hours ago
50+ mile range is only interesting if you can do something useful at the end of it, and that means a payload. The high MV needed for 50+ mile range also makes indirect fire rather problematic...
1
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Duane LT Rusty • 4 hours ago
That depends upon the effects you're trying to achieve. A "useful payload" to damage a ship target is one thing .. to damage or destroy an incoming ASCM is another thing.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
waveshaper1 ARCNA442 • 17 hours ago
That's kind-of slow. Just one of many examples; The standard M1 tank, 120mm smoothbore, HVP (APFSDS) rounds have a muzzle velocity of 5000 fps to 5700 fps (depends on the round) and we have been using these rounds for decades. The same type muzzle velocities (5,000 plus fps) are typical of Russian smoothbore APFSDS rounds and other western countries smoothbore APFSDS rounds. Heck, the Russian 125mm 3VBM3/3BM9/10 smoothbore, APFSDS round, entered service way back in 1962 and it has a muzzle velocity of over 5900 fps. Also, the 125mm 3BM69 smoothbore, APFSDS round (one of the newer Russian rounds/entered service in 2005) has a muzzle velocity of over 6725 fps.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
ARCNA442 waveshaper1 • 16 hours ago
You can't really compare smoothbore tank gun that fires a 10# dart with a rifled naval gun firing 70# shells. Subcaliber rounds can go really fast, but raw speed doesn't mean much outside of defeating armor and it comes at the cost of payload, which is much more important for sinking ships and bombarding shore targets. Indeed it is still a real question whether the HVP will carry a meaningful payload.
1
•
Reply
•
Share ›
waveshaper1 ARCNA442 • 16 hours ago
Folks don't realizes that there are some limitations to payloads that can be carried by HVP rounds due to their high muzzle velocities (5,000 fps plus). Here's a few real world LIMFACs; Most warhead explosive fillers/fuze explosive components can't handle the shock of such a high muzzle velocity (main charge/booster/detonators/relays/delays/etc/etc). Also, Gun barrel rifling and projectile rotating bands tend to limit muzzle velocity (example Mk45).
•
Reply
•
Share ›
−
navweap waveshaper1 • 15 hours ago
Another limitation is the available volume for a bursting charge - because the density of explosives is much less than that of tungsten fragments inside the shell. According to published data, the HVP would have no more than 2 lbs of explosives, which is roughly 4 times less than the conventional rounds of Mk45.
To put more HE inside the shell will require bigger volume - and a bigger diameter, which would lead to a higher air resistance and faster deceleration of the "hypervelocity" rounds. For example, the effective range of APFSDS (with 1.1" rod) is ca.~10,000 ft for a muzzle velocity of 5,500 fps.
•
Reply
•
Share ›
Marauder 2048 navweap • 9 hours ago
It's around 4200 fps from the 5 inch/62 cal powder guns.
AAW weapons typically have bursting charges proportional to their
average miss distance.
•
Reply
•
Share ›