LEGAL Statement from President Joe Biden on Averting a Rail Shutdown

Doomer Doug

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
I posted in the Bomb Shelter after watching several Fox news interviews with Maria. The upshot was 4 unions will strike. The union leader says ALL UNIONS will honor the rail unions picket line and daily damage will be $2 BILLION PER DAY.
The key issue is the rail unions want 15 paid sick days and the inions want one.
My read is the strike preps will start in 72 hours the first with th full strike on the 9th.
Game on. The rail unions will not give on the sickdays without a strike period.
Game on I'd say. Even a slow down would be devastating.
 
C

Cedar Lake

Connecticut Yankee
Doomer Doug said:
I posted in the Bomb Shelter after watching several Fox news interviews with Maria. The upshot was 4 unions will strike. The union leader says ALL UNIONS will honor the rail unions picket line and daily damage will be $2 BILLION PER DAY.
The key issue is the rail unions want 15 paid sick days and the inions want one.
My read is the strike preps will start in 72 hours the first with th full strike on the 9th.
Game on. The rail unions will not give on the sickdays without a strike period.
Game on I'd say. Even a slow down would be devastating.
Click to expand...
$2,000,000,000.00 PER DAY or 15 paid sick days.
DO THE MATH......
CAN YOU FIX STUPID?
 
TKO

TKO

Veteran Member
bw said:
It isn't stopped. He's just positioning himself to deflect blame.
Click to expand...
I wonder how they figure they can deflect all the blame to Trump. But, they have been working hard to get DeSantis out there now. They've paid off the media to push DeSantis.
 
alpha

alpha

Veteran Member
TKO said:
I wonder how they figure they can deflect all the blame to Trump. But, they have been working hard to get DeSantis out there now. They've paid off the media to push DeSantis.
Click to expand...
Just as Obama blamed Bush for everything that he, himself was doing to destroy our country, placing Biden as the figurehead of the presidency allows the blame for O's continuing agenda to be pinned on him. Now, the blame for a dramatic economic disaster in the form of RR shutdown is being shifted to the RR workers themselves. It is nothing more than a subversive "blame game". Even the gnome, Fauci is blaming Trump for China's resistance to reveal the source of Fauci's "novel" virus.
 
oops

oops

Veteran Member
I'm sorry, Cedar Lakes...but you made me laugh at myself...then went n hunted til I found the ignore function for the first time in my 2 decades plus on this board...sometimes it takes a 2x4 to fix stupid...lol ...so thank you...n no it wasn't you that went on it...just so no one misunderstands...sigh
 
Ravekid

Ravekid

Veteran Member
Doomer Doug said:
The key issue is the rail unions want 15 paid sick days and the inions want one.
Click to expand...

I read this previously. From what I’ve read, most companies give around five days of vacation and then at least five days of sick time. Working in heavy industry, most of those folks get two additional weeks off, shutdown weeks that are usually during July 4th week and Christmas.

Some places consolidate all time off and give about fifteen days. I know other places give next to nothing but pay very, very well with tons of double time OT type offerings but give zero pay. If one doesn’t work, no pay. However, the extremely high wage makes up for the few weeks a year of no pay.

Not sure what all these various RR jobs pay. I’d have to see more details before making an opinion. 24% raise over five years isn’t bad, but this past year inflation was around 10%. If inflation flatlines, then after five years they will really only see a 14% raise as 10% has already been eaten by inflation.
 
bw

bw

Fringe Ranger
Ravekid said:
Not sure what all these various RR jobs pay. I’d have to see more details before making an opinion. 24% raise over five years isn’t bad, but this past year inflation was around 10%. If inflation flatlines, then after five years they will really only see a 14% raise as 10% has already been eaten by inflation.
Click to expand...
The 10% is compounding annually. In five years it totals 69% by my estimate. The 24% is just over a third of that, so the workers will be losing real income, nowhere near keeping up with inflation.
 
Zagdid

Zagdid

Veteran Member
www.commondreams.org

'All of Rail Labor Is Going to Suffer': Workers Furious Over Biden Move to Preempt Strike

"This is a legacy-defining moment for Joe Biden," said Railroad Workers United. "He is going down as one of the biggest disappointments in labor history."
www.commondreams.org www.commondreams.org

'All of Rail Labor Is Going to Suffer': Workers Furious Over Biden Move to Preempt Strike​

"This is a legacy-defining moment for Joe Biden," said Railroad Workers United. "He is going down as one of the biggest disappointments in labor history."

JAKE JOHNSON November 29, 2022

Rank-and-file rail workers voiced frustration and anger late Monday after Joe Biden—a self-described "pro-labor president"—urged Congress to pass legislation forcing unions to accept a contract agreement without any paid sick days, a step that would avert a looming nationwide strike and deliver a win for the profitable railroad industry.

"By forcing workers into an agreement which doesn't address basic needs like healthcare and sick time, President Joe Biden is choosing railroads over workers and the economy," said Ross Grooters, an engineer and co-chair of Railroad Workers United, an inter-union alliance that supports public ownership of the national rail system.

Another worker was more blunt in a text message to labor reporter Jonah Furman: "Words cannot express how ****ing livid I am at this administration... people in power, LIKE HIM, would rather screw workers than stand up to ****ing robber barons."

While Congress could put forth legislation that would improve the tentative White House-brokered contract deal announced in September, Biden made clear he wants lawmakers "to pass legislation immediately to adopt the tentative agreement between railroad workers and operators—without any modifications or delay—to avert a potentially crippling national rail shutdown."

That agreement, which has been rejected by more than half of the country's unionized rail workforce, does not include a single day of paid sick leave and would only allow three penalty-free days off per year for medical visits. But even that time off is heavily constrained: It's unpaid; can only be taken on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday; and must be scheduled at least 30 days in advance.

"These agreements were rejected because the quality of life rail workers and their families have today is abysmal," Ash Anderson, a member of the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes Division (BMWED)—one of the unions that voted against ratifying the tentative deal—wrote on Facebook. "There were no provisions to improve the quality of life for rail workers, who continue to be exploited by companies that are earning record-breaking profits while their service suffers and they cut their workforce to the bone."

Anderson continued:

I just want Americans to see the stories of these men and women, the stories of their families. I want Americans to recognize that these workers are being driven out of their chosen profession by the continued harsh conditions, callous discipline, long hours far from home, and basic lack of respect and dignity in the work that President Biden just stated was too important to allow to stop, regardless the cost.
The railroads' record profit margins are safe, their exorbitant stock buybacks and shareholder returns are secured. Americans will have all the conveniences available this busy shopping season. Rail workers will work sick to make sure it's all done, because that's what they have to do.
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Shortly following Biden's statement, outgoing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) announced her chamber will move this week to take up legislation requiring rail workers to accept the tentative deal and denying them their right to strike. Without a contract deal or congressional action, a strike could begin early next month.

Echoing Biden, Pelosi insisted that lawmakers are "reluctant to bypass the standard ratification process" and declared that "we must recognize that railroads have been selling out to Wall Street to boost their bottom lines, making obscene profits while demanding more and more from railroad workers."

"But," the Democratic leader added, "we must act to prevent a catastrophic nationwide rail strike, which would grind our economy to a halt."

The White House's intervention answers the call of rail giants and corporate lobbying groups—including the powerful U.S. Chamber of Commerce—that have been pushing for and banking on congressional action as contract talks remain at a standstill, with rail companies refusing to drop their opposition to workers' basic sick leave demands.

Rail unions had originally pushed for 15 days of paid sick leave, a policy that rail companies estimated would cost around $688 million a year—less than what billionaire Warren Buffett, the CEO of BNSF Railway's parent company, added to his net worth in a single day last week.

The unions have since moved down to asking for four paid sick days, but rail companies remain opposed even as they rake in huge profits and enrich their executives and shareholders. The Lever reported in September that "the CEOs of five of the largest railroad conglomerates have been paid more than $200 million in the last three years, and company shareholders have been boosted by nearly $200 billion in stock buybacks and dividends over the last dozen years."

Matthew Weaver, a carpenter with BMWED, told The New York Times that Biden's decision to step in and force workers to accept a contract agreement opposed by a majority of rail union members "seems to cater to the oligarchs."

"All of rail labor is going to suffer because of this," said Weaver.

Grooters of Railroad Workers United argued that Congress "should ignore White House shortsightedness and introduce the labor-friendly version of a railroad bill"—but it's not yet clear whether progressive lawmakers in the House or Senate will attempt to force amendments to the tentative agreement.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), an outspoken supporter of rail workers, told reporters Monday that any legislation preventing a strike must guarantee workers' sick leave.

Citing unnamed sources, CNN reported late Monday that "following House passage, Senate action could occur later this week or next."

"The Senate is expected to have the votes to break a filibuster on the bill to avert a potential railway strike, according to those sources," the outlet noted. "There are likely to be at least 10 Republicans who will vote with most Senate Democrats to overcome a 60-vote threshold. The only question is how quickly the bill can come to the floor since any senator can object, dragging out the process and delaying a quick vote."

"Sources are watching Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders closely to see if he upends an effort to get a quick vote," CNN added. "A Sanders spokesman declined to comment."
 
N

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
When someone says "Sign me up for that 24% raise!!" and those sick days, THE ARTICULATORS of those views are working with a VERY SKEWED concept. With the RRs, "days off" are NOT GUARANTEED to STAY as "days off" because of the 24/7 on call situation.
You can get called on ANY day, REGARDLESS of what you have planned and you (currently) MUST report for work as per that call.
These folks WILL go out, REGARDLESS of what Gropey Joe and the Dim Congress do or say.

Buckle up. Gonna be a LONG COLD WINTER.
 
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Melodi

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Not providing ANY sick leave is not only extremely regressive it also is penny-wise and pounds foolish. People do become ill, but to stay healthy most people need the occasional check-up and sometimes time off for treatment, especially after the age of forty.

No sick leave at all, means people going to work with early symptoms of the flu, COVID, COVID-19, and other infectious diseases some of which could shut down an entire crew or three. This happened a lot when I was in food service back in the 70s when there were few employee protections in such places and no work meant no pay. One friend who was a waitress ended up staying home only because her doctor called her employer and said he was going to call the health department as she had something that legally could shut down the entire place for two weeks - but they wanted her to come in and she didn't "feel" that bad (it was a viral walking pneumonia). Her doctor said, "that's why they call it WALKING Pneumonia." He also said it could kill older people or people in fragile health.

I am not saying 15 days of sick leave is obtainable but it was handled by the relatively generous leave some Federal Workers get, it could be saved by healthy people in case of long-term illness and/or donated to colleagues who get a long-term illness like Cancer. If someone is exceptionally healthy (and lucky) some employers (again especially civil services) will let an employee cash in their sick leave when they retire (or donate for a tax break).

That sort of policy encourages people not to use it on a whim for a "duvet day," but it also gives healthy people a cushion in case of a life ancient like a heart attack or car accident (or a child with a serious illness).

I also have a suspicion that forcing a "settlement" like this on employees in the current atmosphere may backfire - the 24 percent raise (over three years) might cause longer-term employees to stay. But while they can order employees not to strike, they can't stop people from quitting. If they try to force march people to work who are mad enough to quit, then the chances of real internal sabotage or just working slowly (or working to rule) could make things even worse.

I don't see this ending well...
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Zagdid said:
Echoing Biden, Pelosi insisted that lawmakers are "reluctant to bypass the standard ratification process"
Click to expand...
Bahahahahaha........

"reluctant" Bahahahahaha:prfl:

Stop, please stop, I can't take anymore.

"Reluctant" to tear up the President's speech, reluctant to read the bills before they pass them. Reluctant to send more money to Ukraine, reluctant to pack the Supreme Court, reluctant to install a J6 committee. Reluctant to codify Roe v Wade in direct opposition to SCOTUS.

Bahahahaha stop, please. My side hurts.
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
bw said:
The 10% is compounding annually. In five years it totals 69% by my estimate. The 24% is just over a third of that, so the workers will be losing real income, nowhere near keeping up with inflation.
Click to expand...
BTW that 10% is from the dumb downed government statics the real number for inflation is around 45%.
 
Wildweasel

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
raven said:
How does congress have the power to adopt the unratified agreement . . . when workers have voted NO.

oh right . . . voting again.

(this isn't the United States of America)
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The Railway Labor Act of 1926 which has not been overturned by any court, only amended to further cover airlines. Congress has the power to force binding arbitration on both parties in a labor disagreement due to the key nature of the rail industry to the US economy.
 
Wildweasel

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
anna43 said:
The government has always stepped in and stopped railroads from striking -- always. I figured this would happen.

Now I'm wondering what do they call the equivalate of "blue flu" when its railroad workers?
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In this case, the blue flu would cause the workers involved to be fired. Unscheduled sick days (doctor verified) being a cause for termination is one of the issues being fought over in the contract negotiations.
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Wildweasel said:
The Railway Labor Act of 1926 which has not been overturned by any court, only amended to further cover airlines. Congress has the power to force binding arbitration on both parties in a labor disagreement due to the key nature of the rail industry to the US economy.
Click to expand...
But they don't have the power to force employees to show up. That's where it's gonna get REAL interesting! How many years have they been trying to get some of these (reasonable, in this day and age) concessions, only to hear empty promises and outright lies?

Summerthyme
 
S

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
Wildweasel said:
In this case, the blue flu would cause the workers involved to be fired. Unscheduled sick days (doctor verified) being a cause for termination is one of the issues being fought over in the contract negotiations.
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True... but who will they replace them with? We don't have a few thousand spare trained railroad engineers/conductors/ brakemen, etc sitting on a shelf somewhere, and its not a job you can simply step into. I don't think you can quickly retrain a bus driver, for example, to drive a train!

And someone posted recently that the only other organization that trains engineers (the military) turns out fewer than a dozen a year... barely enough to keep up with their own natural attrition.

Summerthyme
 
jward

jward

passin' thru
Nowski

Nowski

Let's Go Brandon!
Anything, that makes the election stealing POS demoncraps
look bad, especially their POS so called POTUS, look bad,
is a great thing IMHO, for the ZUSA.

Sure we all have to suffer with, these vile POS demoncraps,
and endure whatever it takes, to punish them.

Pray for Lexington Green, and Concord Bridge.

Please be safe everyone.

Regards to all.

Nowski
 
Tigerlily

Tigerlily

Senior Member
Ravekid said:
I read this previously. From what I’ve read, most companies give around five days of vacation and then at least five days of sick time. Working in heavy industry, most of those folks get two additional weeks off, shutdown weeks that are usually during July 4th week and Christmas.

Some places consolidate all time off and give about fifteen days. I know other places give next to nothing but pay very, very well with tons of double time OT type offerings but give zero pay. If one doesn’t work, no pay. However, the extremely high wage makes up for the few weeks a year of no pay.

Not sure what all these various RR jobs pay. I’d have to see more details before making an opinion. 24% raise over five years isn’t bad, but this past year inflation was around 10%. If inflation flatlines, then after five years they will really only see a 14% raise as 10% has already been eaten by inflation.
Click to expand...
I've also read that they sometimes don't get paid for overtime.
 
Melodi

Melodi

Disaster Cat
The reason the air traffic controllers' strike worked out all right was that there were enough military controllers to take over immediately (on an emergency basis) until new civilians could be trained.

That simply isn't true in the case of railroad employees, today those are highly specialized jobs, not strong guys shoveling coal into a boiler and hoping it doesn't explode. If there really is a wild cat strike and/or people simply refuse to come into work and are fired for it; as far as I know there isn't much to replace them with.

This is really playing with fire because most people are no longer willing to work jobs that required being on-call 365 days a year, 24/7 with no sick leave, not even four or five days. They can be fired or demoted if they have a toothache and need to have it fixed or come down with flu (or worse got to work with it, collapse and give it to everyone else in the crew).
 
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