jward
passin' thru
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
Update: France: NATO is monitoring the Russian mobilization while fears of an invasion of Ukraine are increasing.
ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread
- Thread starter danielboon
- Start date
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
Update: France: NATO is monitoring the Russian mobilization while fears of an invasion of Ukraine are increasing.
Wonderful... just wonderful
northern watch
TB Fanatic
northern watch
TB Fanatic
jward
passin' thru
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
6m
Kuleba believes decision to invade Ukraine “on table” in Kremlin
View: https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1465543751871442944?s=20
@EndGameWW3
6m
Kuleba believes decision to invade Ukraine “on table” in Kremlin
View: https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1465543751871442944?s=20
Doomer Doug
TB Fanatic
The ukies must think NATO, the EU and biden have them covered or they wouldn't be spewing drivel about Russian coup attempts, or shelling ethnic Russians enclaves, or howling like wolves in unison with the neo con warmongers infesting the demoncrats and rinos.
jward
passin' thru
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
Update: NATO ministers to meet in Latvia today (Tuesday) to discuss Belarus Migrant situation and the Russia-Ukraine tension. NATO stated they will go over contingency plans in case a Russian invasion of Ukraine occurs.
okie-carbine
Veteran Member
I think it was mentioned in this thread, but I am putting my money on this weekend as the go date. The new moon will provide the darkness they desire for effective attack.
jward
passin' thru
I don't know if they still need the new moon as advantage, with todays' tech.. I recall tho that Russia was positioning some assets, due to be completed by the first of december, so you may well be right.
I'm still looking at things popping along side the champagne corks, but that may be because I so desperately need to make it to the new year without further unraveling - as always, time will tell.
(and I won't be surprised if this is another situation that gets walked back from the brink- except that leaves the water issue)
I'm still looking at things popping along side the champagne corks, but that may be because I so desperately need to make it to the new year without further unraveling - as always, time will tell.
(and I won't be surprised if this is another situation that gets walked back from the brink- except that leaves the water issue)
northern watch
TB Fanatic
northern watch
TB Fanatic
I recall tho that Russia was positioning some assets, due to be completed by the first of december, so you may well be right. that with post # 891Belarus will start combat training on the border with #Ukraine on December 1st , it looks like kick off time is in early December.
December 1 is this Wednesday, one day away.
Last edited:
boy i hope you are wrong. but it does make sense.
if everyone is saying they could do it in late january, but they are totally ready today...
and the ground just froze over this morning.
danielboon
TB Fanatic
jward
passin' thru
Andy Scollick
@Andy_Scollick
7m
A little bird told me that VDV (Russian Airborne Forces) spetsnaz (SOF) are operating on the ground in the occupied Donbas. They are likely assessing routes for rapid advance of ground forces from the border through to the front line (and beyond).
@Andy_Scollick
7m
A little bird told me that VDV (Russian Airborne Forces) spetsnaz (SOF) are operating on the ground in the occupied Donbas. They are likely assessing routes for rapid advance of ground forces from the border through to the front line (and beyond).
jward
passin' thru
Threat of Russian invasion of Ukraine tests Biden administration
Paul Sonne, Ellen Nakashima, Missy Ryan
9-11 minutes
The White House is reviewing options to deter a feared Russian invasion of Ukraine, including providing more military aid to Kyiv and threatening sanctions, to dissuade Russian President Vladimir Putin from escalating the simmering conflict into a full-blown transatlantic crisis.
The deliberations come as President Biden and his aides prepare for a virtual call with Putin next month, a moment that analysts see as an opportunity to signal the costs of an invasion to the Kremlin but also present a path for reducing tension.
Amid spiking U.S. concern over unusual movements by Russian troops on the Ukrainian border, Secretary of State Antony Blinken embarked Monday on a trip to Europe, where Washington is looking to consolidate a position among allies at a summit with NATO foreign ministers in Latvia. Blinken will then go to Sweden for a meeting of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, also scheduled to be attended by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.
“We will talk about our assessment of what’s happening on Russia’s border with Ukraine, and we will begin that conversation of what are the options that are on the table, and what is it that NATO as an alliance would like to do together?” Karen Donfried, the State Department’s top official for Europe, said ahead of the trip.
Administration officials are trying to craft an approach that neither appeases Russia nor provokes significant escalation, which is harder now than it was nearly eight years ago, when Moscow annexed Crimea and fueled a separatist war in Ukraine’s east that has left more than 13,000 people dead.
The Russian and Ukrainian militaries are more advanced, the West remains divided on how tough to be on Moscow, and Putin has grown increasingly bold about pressing Russia’s claims on Ukraine.
“There has never been a more propitious moment for Putin if he wants to invade Ukraine,” said Fiona Hill, who served as a top Russia adviser in the Trump administration.
The Kremlin denies it is planning an offensive. For weeks, however, U.S. officials have warned publicly and in discussions with allies that they are alarmed about Russian troops near the Ukrainian border. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg on Thursday said Russia had massed a “large and unusual concentration of forces in the region,” including tanks, artillery, armored units, drones and electronic warfare systems, as well as combat-ready troops. Ukraine says Russia has about 94,000 troops near the border.
The intelligence that worried senior Biden administration officials goes beyond the Russian troop buildup, according to U.S. officials, who declined to be more specific and who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.
The administration is considering enhanced military aid to Ukraine and weighing potential sanctions or other measures that could be taken before or after an invasion, in addition to reviewing military contingency plans, U.S. officials said.
Washington has also floated the possibility of an in-person summit between Biden and Putin in the first half of 2022, according to people familiar with the matter, a move that might buy time to build unity among allies or revitalize a moribund political process to resolve the military conflict in Ukraine’s east.
The potential meeting was broached by CIA Director William J. Burns in his visit to Moscow earlier this month, they said. The possible in-person meeting was first reported by the Russian newspaper Kommersant. The White House said it had nothing to announce about a meeting.
Ukraine has shored up its defenses since 2014 with Western help. But Ukrainian Brig. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, the country’s top military intelligence official, this month told the Military Times that Kyiv is seeking additional air, missile and drone defense systems, as well as electronic jamming devices, to help counter rocket and artillery fire.
U.S. officials have said they aren’t sure if Putin is going to attack, or even whether he has reached a decision, noting he could be moving forces near the Ukrainian border as a bargaining strategy with Western powers. After surprising Washington with a similar buildup last spring, Putin landed his first high-profile summit with Biden.
But comments by Putin and other top Russian officials about Ukraine have sharpened in recent months, and that more aggressive rhetoric, combined with the second military buildup, have raised fears the Russian leader may not be bluffing.
“When you say things like, ‘Ukraine does not now and has never had a right to exist as a sovereign state, there is no such thing as the Ukrainian people,’ where does your rhetoric go from there?” a senior Western intelligence officer said. “And where has rhetoric like that led in the past? It has pretty consistently been a prelude to conflict.”
The dilemma, said Andrea Kendall-Taylor, a Russia expert at the Center for a New American Security, “is Putin fundamentally cares more about Ukraine than even the United States does. So how do you deter an adversary when there’s such an asymmetry of interests?’’
Andrew S. Weiss, a Russia analyst at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said Putin has failed to achieve his goals in Ukraine, and in fact his aggression has worsened the security situation on Russia’s western border, revitalized NATO and strengthened anti-Russian sentiment in Ukrainian society.
“For a whole host of reasons, he’ll never admit that, of course, which is part of the reason he continues to see restoring Ukraine to the Kremlin’s sphere of influence as the single most important piece of unfinished business for Russia’s security and his own legacy,” Weiss said.
On Friday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky alleged a group of Russians and Ukrainians were found plotting a coup against him, accusations the Kremlin rejected.
The deteriorating situation presents a new test for the transatlantic alliance, which has embraced Ukraine as a partner rather than an ally. It has provided Kyiv with weaponry, training and support, but stopped short of extending a guarantee of defense that formal NATO membership affords.
Ukrainian officials have warned Moscow could mount a simultaneous multifront invasion from the north, south and east to force a retreat and capitulation by Kyiv. Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov told The Washington Post that a new Russian invasion would be far bloodier and more costly to Europe than the 2014 operation.
The ambiguity about how far NATO would go to defend Ukraine against Russian military action already has sparked debate in Washington and exacerbated divides within the alliance that the Kremlin has sought to exploit.
Samuel Charap, a Russia analyst at the Rand Corporation, argued the United States, faced with limited ability to coerce Putin, should pressure Ukraine into further implementing the moribund 2015 peace deal known as the Minsk II agreement as a symbolic first move to “put the onus on Moscow to de-escalate.”
Ben Hodges, the former commanding general of U.S. Army Europe, said Washington should do the opposite, and apply diplomatic, economic and military pressure on Moscow.
“Nothing in Russia’s history should cause anybody to think for one second that giving in to them will cause them to say, ‘okay, we’re good,’ ” Hodges said. “I believe they really do only respect strength.”
The top Republicans on the House and Senate Armed Services Committees sent a letter to the Pentagon last week urging the administration to do more to shore up Ukraine’s military and expressing concern that the United States hasn’t taken more aggressive action.
Kendall-Taylor said the upcoming call is a chance to convey the costs of an invasion and emphasize that it would change the security situation in Europe. “The U.S. would have no choice but to position more forces in Europe,” Kendall-Taylor said.
U.S. officials say they realize meetings alone are not offramps.
“There’s this tension between getting rid of the crisis in the near term — let’s throw another summit at Putin — and the longer-term imperative,” said one official. “If you offer concessions, what do you teach them and China? You teach them to manufacture crises because you get concessions.”
The Biden administration’s response is also sure to be watched closely elsewhere around the world, perhaps most notably in China, where Beijing’s stance on Taiwan in many ways mirrors Russia’s approach to Ukraine.
The latest challenge over Ukraine comes as Europe grapples with an energy crisis that has highlighted its dependency on Russian gas, and as the continent faces a leadership transition in Germany. Outgoing Chancellor Angela Merkel for years took the lead on European diplomacy toward Ukraine.
Hill, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said Europe must “step up to meet this challenge.” Any further incursion by Russia into Ukraine, which has been established as an independent nation for 30 years, she said, poses a “massive challenge to the territorial integrity of every other European state.”
Karoun Demirjian contributed to this report.
Paul Sonne, Ellen Nakashima, Missy Ryan
9-11 minutes
The White House is reviewing options to deter a feared Russian invasion of Ukraine, including providing more military aid to Kyiv and threatening sanctions, to dissuade Russian President Vladimir Putin from escalating the simmering conflict into a full-blown transatlantic crisis.
The deliberations come as President Biden and his aides prepare for a virtual call with Putin next month, a moment that analysts see as an opportunity to signal the costs of an invasion to the Kremlin but also present a path for reducing tension.
Amid spiking U.S. concern over unusual movements by Russian troops on the Ukrainian border, Secretary of State Antony Blinken embarked Monday on a trip to Europe, where Washington is looking to consolidate a position among allies at a summit with NATO foreign ministers in Latvia. Blinken will then go to Sweden for a meeting of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, also scheduled to be attended by Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.
“We will talk about our assessment of what’s happening on Russia’s border with Ukraine, and we will begin that conversation of what are the options that are on the table, and what is it that NATO as an alliance would like to do together?” Karen Donfried, the State Department’s top official for Europe, said ahead of the trip.
Administration officials are trying to craft an approach that neither appeases Russia nor provokes significant escalation, which is harder now than it was nearly eight years ago, when Moscow annexed Crimea and fueled a separatist war in Ukraine’s east that has left more than 13,000 people dead.
The Russian and Ukrainian militaries are more advanced, the West remains divided on how tough to be on Moscow, and Putin has grown increasingly bold about pressing Russia’s claims on Ukraine.
“There has never been a more propitious moment for Putin if he wants to invade Ukraine,” said Fiona Hill, who served as a top Russia adviser in the Trump administration.
The Kremlin denies it is planning an offensive. For weeks, however, U.S. officials have warned publicly and in discussions with allies that they are alarmed about Russian troops near the Ukrainian border. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg on Thursday said Russia had massed a “large and unusual concentration of forces in the region,” including tanks, artillery, armored units, drones and electronic warfare systems, as well as combat-ready troops. Ukraine says Russia has about 94,000 troops near the border.
The intelligence that worried senior Biden administration officials goes beyond the Russian troop buildup, according to U.S. officials, who declined to be more specific and who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.
The administration is considering enhanced military aid to Ukraine and weighing potential sanctions or other measures that could be taken before or after an invasion, in addition to reviewing military contingency plans, U.S. officials said.
Washington has also floated the possibility of an in-person summit between Biden and Putin in the first half of 2022, according to people familiar with the matter, a move that might buy time to build unity among allies or revitalize a moribund political process to resolve the military conflict in Ukraine’s east.
The potential meeting was broached by CIA Director William J. Burns in his visit to Moscow earlier this month, they said. The possible in-person meeting was first reported by the Russian newspaper Kommersant. The White House said it had nothing to announce about a meeting.
Ukraine has shored up its defenses since 2014 with Western help. But Ukrainian Brig. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, the country’s top military intelligence official, this month told the Military Times that Kyiv is seeking additional air, missile and drone defense systems, as well as electronic jamming devices, to help counter rocket and artillery fire.
U.S. officials have said they aren’t sure if Putin is going to attack, or even whether he has reached a decision, noting he could be moving forces near the Ukrainian border as a bargaining strategy with Western powers. After surprising Washington with a similar buildup last spring, Putin landed his first high-profile summit with Biden.
But comments by Putin and other top Russian officials about Ukraine have sharpened in recent months, and that more aggressive rhetoric, combined with the second military buildup, have raised fears the Russian leader may not be bluffing.
“When you say things like, ‘Ukraine does not now and has never had a right to exist as a sovereign state, there is no such thing as the Ukrainian people,’ where does your rhetoric go from there?” a senior Western intelligence officer said. “And where has rhetoric like that led in the past? It has pretty consistently been a prelude to conflict.”
The dilemma, said Andrea Kendall-Taylor, a Russia expert at the Center for a New American Security, “is Putin fundamentally cares more about Ukraine than even the United States does. So how do you deter an adversary when there’s such an asymmetry of interests?’’
Andrew S. Weiss, a Russia analyst at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said Putin has failed to achieve his goals in Ukraine, and in fact his aggression has worsened the security situation on Russia’s western border, revitalized NATO and strengthened anti-Russian sentiment in Ukrainian society.
“For a whole host of reasons, he’ll never admit that, of course, which is part of the reason he continues to see restoring Ukraine to the Kremlin’s sphere of influence as the single most important piece of unfinished business for Russia’s security and his own legacy,” Weiss said.
On Friday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky alleged a group of Russians and Ukrainians were found plotting a coup against him, accusations the Kremlin rejected.
The deteriorating situation presents a new test for the transatlantic alliance, which has embraced Ukraine as a partner rather than an ally. It has provided Kyiv with weaponry, training and support, but stopped short of extending a guarantee of defense that formal NATO membership affords.
Ukrainian officials have warned Moscow could mount a simultaneous multifront invasion from the north, south and east to force a retreat and capitulation by Kyiv. Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov told The Washington Post that a new Russian invasion would be far bloodier and more costly to Europe than the 2014 operation.
The ambiguity about how far NATO would go to defend Ukraine against Russian military action already has sparked debate in Washington and exacerbated divides within the alliance that the Kremlin has sought to exploit.
Samuel Charap, a Russia analyst at the Rand Corporation, argued the United States, faced with limited ability to coerce Putin, should pressure Ukraine into further implementing the moribund 2015 peace deal known as the Minsk II agreement as a symbolic first move to “put the onus on Moscow to de-escalate.”
Ben Hodges, the former commanding general of U.S. Army Europe, said Washington should do the opposite, and apply diplomatic, economic and military pressure on Moscow.
“Nothing in Russia’s history should cause anybody to think for one second that giving in to them will cause them to say, ‘okay, we’re good,’ ” Hodges said. “I believe they really do only respect strength.”
The top Republicans on the House and Senate Armed Services Committees sent a letter to the Pentagon last week urging the administration to do more to shore up Ukraine’s military and expressing concern that the United States hasn’t taken more aggressive action.
Kendall-Taylor said the upcoming call is a chance to convey the costs of an invasion and emphasize that it would change the security situation in Europe. “The U.S. would have no choice but to position more forces in Europe,” Kendall-Taylor said.
U.S. officials say they realize meetings alone are not offramps.
“There’s this tension between getting rid of the crisis in the near term — let’s throw another summit at Putin — and the longer-term imperative,” said one official. “If you offer concessions, what do you teach them and China? You teach them to manufacture crises because you get concessions.”
The Biden administration’s response is also sure to be watched closely elsewhere around the world, perhaps most notably in China, where Beijing’s stance on Taiwan in many ways mirrors Russia’s approach to Ukraine.
The latest challenge over Ukraine comes as Europe grapples with an energy crisis that has highlighted its dependency on Russian gas, and as the continent faces a leadership transition in Germany. Outgoing Chancellor Angela Merkel for years took the lead on European diplomacy toward Ukraine.
Hill, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, said Europe must “step up to meet this challenge.” Any further incursion by Russia into Ukraine, which has been established as an independent nation for 30 years, she said, poses a “massive challenge to the territorial integrity of every other European state.”
Karoun Demirjian contributed to this report.
TheDoberman
Veteran Member
That's a MAD type scenario. That would really kick up the game quite a bit. If I was Nato or the U.S., I would not want to be associated with that. That could pull the world into full scale nuclear war.
Zagdid
Veteran Member
Putin Warns West: Moscow Has 'Red Line' About Ukraine, NATO
Russian President Vladimir Putin has sternly warned NATO against deploying its troops and weapons to Ukraine, saying it represents a red line for Russia and would trigger a strong response.
By Associated Press
Nov. 30, 2021, at 9:36 a.m.
Russian President Vladimir Putin attends a video call of the VTB Capital "Russia Calling!" Investment Forum in Moscow, Russia, Tuesday, Nov. 30, 2021. (Mikhail Metzel, Sputnik, Kremlin Pool Photo via AP) THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press
MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday sternly warned NATO against deploying its troops and weapons to Ukraine, saying it represents a red line for Russia and would trigger a strong response.
Commenting on Western concerns about Russia's alleged intention to invade Ukraine, he said that Moscow is equally worried about NATO drills near its borders.
Speaking to participants of an online investment forum. the Russian president said that NATO's eastward expansion has threatened Moscow's core security interests. He expressed concern that NATO could eventually use the Ukrainian territory to deploy missiles capable of reaching Russia's command centers in just five minutes.
“The emergence of such threats represents a ‘red line’ for us,” Putin said. “I hope that common sense and responsibility for their own countries and the global community will eventually prevail.”
He added that Moscow has been forced to counter the growing threats by developing new hypersonic weapons.
“What should we do?” Putin said. “We would need to develop something similar to target those who threaten us. And we can do that even now.”
He said a new hypersonic missile that is set to enter service with the Russian navy early next year would be capable of reaching targets in comparable time.
“It would also need just five minutes to reach those who issue orders,” Putin said.
The Zircon hypersonic cruise missile, capable of flying at nine times the speed of sound to a range of 1,000 kilometers (620 miles), has undergone a series of tests, most recently Monday.
Ukrainian and Western officials have expressed worries this month that a Russian military buildup near Ukraine could signal plans by Moscow to invade its ex-Soviet neighbor. NATO foreign ministers warned Russia on Tuesday that any attempt to further destabilize Ukraine would be a costly mistake.
The Kremlin has insisted it has no such intention and has accused Ukraine and its Western backers of making the claims to cover up their own allegedly aggressive designs.
Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula in 2014 after the country’s Kremlin-friendly president was driven from power by mass protests and also threw its weight behind a separatist insurgency that broke out in Ukraine’s east.
Earlier this year, a spike in cease-fire violations in the east and a Russian troop concentration near Ukraine fueled war fears, but tensions abated when Moscow pulled back the bulk of its forces after maneuvers in April.
Putin argued that to avoid tensions, Russia and the West should negotiate agreements that would take the parties’ security interests into account. The Russian leader noted that Russia has been strongly worried about NATO's drills near its borders, pointing at a recent exercise that involved U.S. strategic bombers.
“Strategic bombers, which carry precision weapons and are capable of carrying nuclear weapons, were flying as close as 20 kilometers (12 miles) to our border,” he said. “That represents a threat for us.”
The previous buildup of Russian troops near Ukraine early this year was followed by Putin's summit with U.S. President Joe Biden in June in Geneva, where they agreed to launch a dialogue on strategic stability and cyber security. Putin hailed the discussions on cyber security between Russian and U.S. experts, saying “just as with the pandemic, it's necessary to pool efforts to work efficiently.”
Asked about Biden's bid to seek a second term, Putin hailed it, saying it would help the U.S. political stability.
The Russian leader also drew a parallel with his own re-election plans, saying that even though he hasn't decided yet whether to seek re-election when his current six-year term ends in 2024, the possibility of him staying on has helped stability.
The 69-year-old Russian president has been in power for more than two decades — longer than any other Kremlin leader since Soviet dictator Josef Stalin. Constitutional amendments approved in 2020 reset Putin’s previous term limits, allowing him to run for president two more times and hold onto power until 2036.
“In line with the constitution, I have the right to get elected to seek a new term, but I haven't yet made up my mind whether to do it or not," Putin said. “But the very existence of that right already stabilizes the domestic political situation.”
danielboon
TB Fanatic
EXCLUSIVE Ukraine PM says Russia 'absolutely' behind suspected coup attempt
By Robin Emmott
Ukraine's Prime Minister Denys Shmygal attends an interview with Reuters in Brussels, Belgium, November 30, 2021. REUTERS/Johanna?Geron
BRUSSELS, Nov 30 (Reuters) - Ukraine Prime Minister Denys Shmygal accused Russia on Tuesday of being "absolutely" behind what he called an attempt to organise a coup to overthrow the pro-Western government in Kyiv, citing intelligence.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/A7MO6JPIRVLBLDURE23LRTCLBM.jpg)
www.reuters.com
By Robin Emmott
Ukraine's Prime Minister Denys Shmygal attends an interview with Reuters in Brussels, Belgium, November 30, 2021. REUTERS/Johanna?Geron
BRUSSELS, Nov 30 (Reuters) - Ukraine Prime Minister Denys Shmygal accused Russia on Tuesday of being "absolutely" behind what he called an attempt to organise a coup to overthrow the pro-Western government in Kyiv, citing intelligence.
EXCLUSIVE Ukraine PM says Russia 'absolutely' behind suspected coup attempt
Ukraine Prime Minister Denys Shmygal accused Russia on Tuesday of being "absolutely" behind what he called an attempt to organise a coup to overthrow the pro-Western government in Kyiv, citing intelligence.
www.reuters.com
danielboon
TB Fanatic
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
·
11m
Update: NATO-Ukraine...
Quote Tweet
Liveuamap
@Liveuamap
· 14m
Efforts underway to strengthen the armed forces of Ukraine amid increasing threats from Russia, @jensstoltenberg tells reporters https://liveuamap.com/en/2021/30-november-efforts-underway-to-strengthen-the-armed-forces… via @W7VOA
@EndGameWW3
·
11m
Update: NATO-Ukraine...
Quote Tweet
Liveuamap
@Liveuamap
· 14m
Efforts underway to strengthen the armed forces of Ukraine amid increasing threats from Russia, @jensstoltenberg tells reporters https://liveuamap.com/en/2021/30-november-efforts-underway-to-strengthen-the-armed-forces… via @W7VOA
danielboon
TB Fanatic
danielboon
TB Fanatic
danielboon
TB Fanatic
NATO warns Russia to avoid costly mistake in Ukraine
NATO foreign ministers are warning Russia that any attempt to further destabilize Ukraine would be a costly mistake
By DAVID KEYTON and LORNE COOK Associated Press
November 30, 2021, 8:29 AM
• 4 min read
6:42
Ukraine foreign minister working to deter Russian aggression
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba hopes to dissuade a potential Russian invasio...Read More
The Associated Press
RIGA, Latvia -- NATO foreign ministers warned Russia on Tuesday that any attempt to further destabilize Ukraine would be a costly mistake as concern mounts that Moscow could be preparing an invasion of its neighbor.
NATO is worried about a Russian buildup of heavy equipment and troops near Ukraine’s northern border, not far from Belarus. Ukraine says Russia kept about 90,000 troops in the area following massive war games in western Russia earlier this year.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said last week that his country's intelligence service had uncovered plans for a Russia-backed coup d'état. Russia denied the allegation and rejected the assertion that it is planning to invade Ukraine.
“We are very concerned about the movements we’ve seen along Ukraine’s border. We know that Russia often combines those efforts with internal efforts to destabilize a country. That’s part of the playbook, and we’re looking at it very closely,” U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said.
“Any renewed aggression would trigger serious consequences,” Blinken warned ahead of talks in Riga, Latvia with his counterparts in the 30-country military organization.
The United States has shared intelligence with European allies warning of a possible invasion of Ukraine. European diplomats acknowledge the Russian troop movements, but some countries have played down the threat of any imminent invasion ordered by Moscow.
German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said the NATO ministers will “together send an unmistakable message to the Russian government: NATO’s support for Ukraine is unbroken and its independence, territorial integrity and sovereignty are not up for discussion.”
“Russia would have to pay a high price for any form of aggression,” Maas said. “Honest and sustainable de-escalation steps, which can only go via the route of talks, are all the more important now. I will not tire of stressing that the door to such talks is still open to Russia.”
Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula in 2014 after the country’s Moscow-friendly president was driven from power by mass protests. Weeks later, Russia threw its weight behind a separatist insurgency that broke out in Ukraine’s east.
Ukraine and the West have accused Russia of sending its troops and weapons to back the rebels. Moscow denied that, saying that Russians who joined the separatists were volunteers. More than 14,000 people have died in the fighting, which also has devastated Ukraine’s eastern industrial heartland, known as Donbas.
A 2015 peace agreement brokered by France and Germany helped end large-scale battles, but efforts to reach a political settlement have failed and sporadic skirmishes have continued along the tense line of contact. Russia has refused recent overtures for talks with France and Germany.
British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss said the NATO ministers will send a message of support to Ukraine.
“We have seen this playbook from the Kremlin before when Russia falsely claimed its illegal annexation of Crimea was a response to NATO aggression. NATO is an alliance forged on the principle of defense, not provocation. Any suggestion that NATO is provoking the Russians is clearly false.
“Any action by Russia to undermine the freedom and democracy that our partners enjoy would be a strategic mistake,” Truss said in a statement.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said it is NATO that threatens peace in the region.
“Significant units and military equipment of NATO countries, including the U.S. and Britain, are being deployed closer to our borders,” Lavrov said during a news conference in Moscow. He alleged that the West has long provoked Ukraine “into anti-Russian actions.”
Whatever Russia’s intentions, NATO would not be able to provide Ukraine with any substantial military support in time to make a difference against Russian forces, so economic measures like Western sanctions are more likely to be used to inflict a financial cost on Moscow.
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, who is chairing the meeting in Latvia, underlined that Ukraine does not belong to the military organization so cannot benefit from the collective security guarantee available to member countries.
“We have different options, and we have demonstrated over the years in reaction to Russia’s previous use of military force against Ukraine that we can sustain heavy economic and financial sanctions, political sanctions,” Stoltenberg said.
Meanwhile, Belarusian Defense Minister Viktor Khrenin announced that Belarus will conduct joint military drills with Russia “to cover the southern borders,” a reference to the border area near Ukraine, according to Belarus state news agency Belta.
Khrenin did not say when the exercises would take place but noted that they won’t be as large-scale as the joint drills Belarus and Russia held in September.
abcnews.go.com
NATO foreign ministers are warning Russia that any attempt to further destabilize Ukraine would be a costly mistake
By DAVID KEYTON and LORNE COOK Associated Press
November 30, 2021, 8:29 AM
• 4 min read
6:42
Ukraine foreign minister working to deter Russian aggression
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba hopes to dissuade a potential Russian invasio...Read More
The Associated Press
RIGA, Latvia -- NATO foreign ministers warned Russia on Tuesday that any attempt to further destabilize Ukraine would be a costly mistake as concern mounts that Moscow could be preparing an invasion of its neighbor.
NATO is worried about a Russian buildup of heavy equipment and troops near Ukraine’s northern border, not far from Belarus. Ukraine says Russia kept about 90,000 troops in the area following massive war games in western Russia earlier this year.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said last week that his country's intelligence service had uncovered plans for a Russia-backed coup d'état. Russia denied the allegation and rejected the assertion that it is planning to invade Ukraine.
“We are very concerned about the movements we’ve seen along Ukraine’s border. We know that Russia often combines those efforts with internal efforts to destabilize a country. That’s part of the playbook, and we’re looking at it very closely,” U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said.
“Any renewed aggression would trigger serious consequences,” Blinken warned ahead of talks in Riga, Latvia with his counterparts in the 30-country military organization.
The United States has shared intelligence with European allies warning of a possible invasion of Ukraine. European diplomats acknowledge the Russian troop movements, but some countries have played down the threat of any imminent invasion ordered by Moscow.
German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said the NATO ministers will “together send an unmistakable message to the Russian government: NATO’s support for Ukraine is unbroken and its independence, territorial integrity and sovereignty are not up for discussion.”
“Russia would have to pay a high price for any form of aggression,” Maas said. “Honest and sustainable de-escalation steps, which can only go via the route of talks, are all the more important now. I will not tire of stressing that the door to such talks is still open to Russia.”
Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula in 2014 after the country’s Moscow-friendly president was driven from power by mass protests. Weeks later, Russia threw its weight behind a separatist insurgency that broke out in Ukraine’s east.
Ukraine and the West have accused Russia of sending its troops and weapons to back the rebels. Moscow denied that, saying that Russians who joined the separatists were volunteers. More than 14,000 people have died in the fighting, which also has devastated Ukraine’s eastern industrial heartland, known as Donbas.
A 2015 peace agreement brokered by France and Germany helped end large-scale battles, but efforts to reach a political settlement have failed and sporadic skirmishes have continued along the tense line of contact. Russia has refused recent overtures for talks with France and Germany.
British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss said the NATO ministers will send a message of support to Ukraine.
“We have seen this playbook from the Kremlin before when Russia falsely claimed its illegal annexation of Crimea was a response to NATO aggression. NATO is an alliance forged on the principle of defense, not provocation. Any suggestion that NATO is provoking the Russians is clearly false.
“Any action by Russia to undermine the freedom and democracy that our partners enjoy would be a strategic mistake,” Truss said in a statement.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said it is NATO that threatens peace in the region.
“Significant units and military equipment of NATO countries, including the U.S. and Britain, are being deployed closer to our borders,” Lavrov said during a news conference in Moscow. He alleged that the West has long provoked Ukraine “into anti-Russian actions.”
Whatever Russia’s intentions, NATO would not be able to provide Ukraine with any substantial military support in time to make a difference against Russian forces, so economic measures like Western sanctions are more likely to be used to inflict a financial cost on Moscow.
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, who is chairing the meeting in Latvia, underlined that Ukraine does not belong to the military organization so cannot benefit from the collective security guarantee available to member countries.
“We have different options, and we have demonstrated over the years in reaction to Russia’s previous use of military force against Ukraine that we can sustain heavy economic and financial sanctions, political sanctions,” Stoltenberg said.
Meanwhile, Belarusian Defense Minister Viktor Khrenin announced that Belarus will conduct joint military drills with Russia “to cover the southern borders,” a reference to the border area near Ukraine, according to Belarus state news agency Belta.
Khrenin did not say when the exercises would take place but noted that they won’t be as large-scale as the joint drills Belarus and Russia held in September.
NATO chief says allies must prepare for the worst in Ukraine
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg is warning that the U.S.-led military organization must prepare for the worst as concern mounts that Russia could be preparing to invade Ukraine
abcnews.go.com
danielboon
TB Fanatic
War Pigs
Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction
In the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!
Now in darkness, world stops turning
Ashes where their bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing, spreads his wings
Oh lord, yeah!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQUXuQ6Zd9w
7:54
Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction
In the fields, the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds
Oh lord, yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!
Now in darkness, world stops turning
Ashes where their bodies burning
No more war pigs have the power
Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan laughing, spreads his wings
Oh lord, yeah!
7:54
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Moscow Says West, Ukraine Threaten Russia Security
Looks like Putin has his reasoning to move forward...
By AFP
4 hours ago
Ukrainian military in Donbass.president.gov.ua
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Tuesday that military exercises and other moves by the West and Ukraine threaten Russia's security, warning against crossing the Kremlin's "red lines."
Addressing an investor conference via video link, Putin declined to say whether Moscow planned to move troops across Ukraine's border — as the West has been alleging for weeks.
NEWSUkraine's Zelenskiy Says Ready for Russian Escalation, Claims Coup Plot Uncovered
READ MORE
"Look, they spoke about a possible Russian military intervention in Ukraine at the beginning of the year. But as you see this did not happen," Putin said.
"It is not about intervening or not intervening, fighting or not fighting. It's about mending ties," Putin said, adding that it was important to take into account the security interests of all parties. "If we sincerely strive to achieve this then no one will feel threatened."
Putin addressed investors as tensions spiral between Moscow and Brussels, and NATO looks to counter a fresh Russian military buildup on Ukraine's border.
The new buildup follows a similar surge in the spring, when Russia gathered around 100,000 troops on Ukraine's borders but later announced a drawdown.
Putin said Moscow was concerned by Western moves to conduct large-scale previously unannounced military drills near Russia's borders, singling out U.S.-led exercises in the Black Sea.
Separately, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov lobbed a series of new accusations against Kiev and said Russia reserved the right to respond if its security was threatened.
"We simply don't have the right to exclude that the Kiev regime may embark on a military adventure. This all creates a direct threat to Russia's security," Lavrov told reporters, speaking alongside his Brazilian counterpart Carlos Franca.
"If the West is unable to contain Ukraine, but, on the contrary, will incite it, then of course, we will take all the necessary steps to ensure our reliable security."
Last week Ukranian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said that Russia was sending "very dangerous" signals with troop movements on the border, warning that his military was ready to push back any offensive.
Moscow, which seized Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and backs separatists fighting Kiev, has strongly denied it is plotting an attack and blames NATO for fueling tensions.
The conflict in the east has claimed more than 13,000 lives since 2014.
www.themoscowtimes.com
Looks like Putin has his reasoning to move forward...
By AFP
4 hours ago
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Tuesday that military exercises and other moves by the West and Ukraine threaten Russia's security, warning against crossing the Kremlin's "red lines."
Addressing an investor conference via video link, Putin declined to say whether Moscow planned to move troops across Ukraine's border — as the West has been alleging for weeks.
NEWSUkraine's Zelenskiy Says Ready for Russian Escalation, Claims Coup Plot Uncovered
READ MORE
"Look, they spoke about a possible Russian military intervention in Ukraine at the beginning of the year. But as you see this did not happen," Putin said.
"It is not about intervening or not intervening, fighting or not fighting. It's about mending ties," Putin said, adding that it was important to take into account the security interests of all parties. "If we sincerely strive to achieve this then no one will feel threatened."
Putin addressed investors as tensions spiral between Moscow and Brussels, and NATO looks to counter a fresh Russian military buildup on Ukraine's border.
The new buildup follows a similar surge in the spring, when Russia gathered around 100,000 troops on Ukraine's borders but later announced a drawdown.
Putin said Moscow was concerned by Western moves to conduct large-scale previously unannounced military drills near Russia's borders, singling out U.S.-led exercises in the Black Sea.
Separately, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov lobbed a series of new accusations against Kiev and said Russia reserved the right to respond if its security was threatened.
"We simply don't have the right to exclude that the Kiev regime may embark on a military adventure. This all creates a direct threat to Russia's security," Lavrov told reporters, speaking alongside his Brazilian counterpart Carlos Franca.
"If the West is unable to contain Ukraine, but, on the contrary, will incite it, then of course, we will take all the necessary steps to ensure our reliable security."
Last week Ukranian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said that Russia was sending "very dangerous" signals with troop movements on the border, warning that his military was ready to push back any offensive.
Moscow, which seized Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and backs separatists fighting Kiev, has strongly denied it is plotting an attack and blames NATO for fueling tensions.
The conflict in the east has claimed more than 13,000 lives since 2014.
Moscow Says West, Ukraine Threaten Russia Security - The Moscow Times
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Tuesday that military exercises and other moves by the West and Ukraine threaten Russia's security, warning against crossing the Kremlin's "red lines."
www.themoscowtimes.com
danielboon
TB Fanatic
EndGameWW3 Retweeted
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
42m
#Russia "has no right whatsoever" to interfere in the process of #Ukraine to join
@NATO
, says
@jensstoltenberg
.
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
42m
#Russia "has no right whatsoever" to interfere in the process of #Ukraine to join
@NATO
, says
@jensstoltenberg
.
danielboon
TB Fanatic
hang in there it looks like it is about to get ugly
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Belarus leader, in U-turn, says annexed Crimea is legally Russian
Reuters
1/2
Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Belarusian counterpart Alexander Lukashenko attend a news conference following their talks at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia September 9, 2021. REUTERS/Shamil Zhumatov/File Photo
MOSCOW, Nov 30 (Reuters) - Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko said on Tuesday that the Crimean Peninsula, annexed by Moscow from Ukraine in 2014, was legally Russian territory, RIA news agency reported, in a reversal of his public stance.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/QFLOXS7VZNMPJODSSC6G6G5ZUM.jpg)
www.reuters.com
Reuters
1/2
Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Belarusian counterpart Alexander Lukashenko attend a news conference following their talks at the Kremlin in Moscow, Russia September 9, 2021. REUTERS/Shamil Zhumatov/File Photo
MOSCOW, Nov 30 (Reuters) - Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko said on Tuesday that the Crimean Peninsula, annexed by Moscow from Ukraine in 2014, was legally Russian territory, RIA news agency reported, in a reversal of his public stance.
Belarus leader, in U-turn, says annexed Crimea is legally Russian
Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko said on Tuesday that the Crimean Peninsula, annexed by Moscow from Ukraine in 2014, was legally Russian territory, RIA news agency reported, in a reversal of his public stance.
www.reuters.com
In several locations
danielboon
TB Fanatic
EndGameWW3 Retweeted
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
43m
"Unusual concentration of forces" and lack of transparency from #Russia about its military exercises along #Belarus border, says
@jensstoltenberg
.
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
43m
"Unusual concentration of forces" and lack of transparency from #Russia about its military exercises along #Belarus border, says
@jensstoltenberg
.
danielboon
TB Fanatic
indeed
danielboon
TB Fanatic
EndGameWW3 Retweeted
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
33m
No clarity about "what exactly are the Russian intentions," adds
@jensstoltenberg
. But "we need to be prepared for the worst" and that "once again" #Russia will use military force against #Ukraine.
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
33m
No clarity about "what exactly are the Russian intentions," adds
@jensstoltenberg
. But "we need to be prepared for the worst" and that "once again" #Russia will use military force against #Ukraine.
danielboon
TB Fanatic
EndGameWW3 Retweeted
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
31m
Increased
@NATO
military presence in Black Sea region in the sea, on land and in the air "and we continue to assess and analyze further adjustments in our posture in the area," explains
@jensstoltenberg
.
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
31m
Increased
@NATO
military presence in Black Sea region in the sea, on land and in the air "and we continue to assess and analyze further adjustments in our posture in the area," explains
@jensstoltenberg
.
Refreshingly ominous,
Runtime 4:28
KMFDM - "Ready To Blow"
View: https://youtu.be/0PDy_MKYo4A?list=PLiE2CJKxmY0efWlwiUS39_tuR0lgI5RMD
Runtime 4:28
KMFDM - "Ready To Blow"
Last edited:
Doomer Doug
TB Fanatic
Ah the peace loving ukies threaten to launch cruise missiles was it? onto Russian nuke plants and create a toxic radioactive cesspool. And these F$%%^^^ NEO NAZI LUNATICS are the ones biden is supporting with new military supplies and states both Georgia and Ukraine will become part of NATO.
GET READY FOR WAR!!!!!!! Oh well, we all gotta die sometime.
GET READY FOR WAR!!!!!!! Oh well, we all gotta die sometime.
probably simultaneously.
if we are still discussing all this on jan 31 i will be amazed.
Another topical tune,
Yes, that is Tatiana's "singing" voice.
Jinjer (/ˈdʒɪndʒər/ "ginger") is a Ukrainian metalcore band from Donetsk, formed in 2009. None of the founding members remain with the band. The current lineup considers 2010 as its official year of formation, with the arrival of singer Tatiana Shmailyuk and guitarist Roman Ibramkhalilov.[4] The band has since added bassist Eugene Abdukhanov and drummer Vladislav Ulasevich. Their most recent album Wallflowers was released in August 2021.
Jinjer - "Cloud Factory"
View: https://youtu.be/LgFvXLbJMSE
Runtime 4:31
Yes, that is Tatiana's "singing" voice.
Jinjer (/ˈdʒɪndʒər/ "ginger") is a Ukrainian metalcore band from Donetsk, formed in 2009. None of the founding members remain with the band. The current lineup considers 2010 as its official year of formation, with the arrival of singer Tatiana Shmailyuk and guitarist Roman Ibramkhalilov.[4] The band has since added bassist Eugene Abdukhanov and drummer Vladislav Ulasevich. Their most recent album Wallflowers was released in August 2021.
Jinjer - "Cloud Factory"
Runtime 4:31
Last edited: