OT/MISC Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Killed Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and Injured Director. New Charges Filed!
- Thread starter jward
- Start date
Hfcomms
EN66iq
He's doing it already, 'they told me it was a cold gun'. If you have a firearm even a prop one in the end you and you alone are responsible for what you do with it. You don't ever take someone else's word that a firearm is unloaded or not functional. When you pull the trigger you are responsible for what happens. If it was you or me we would be up on involuntary manslaughter charges at the least and face civil action as well. I hope the families involved help to pare down his considerable fortune he has made over the years.
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Please understand that I have extremely limited experience in the movie world (I worked as an extra in a few films and have seen movie armorers wrangle firearms), so what follows is hardly the definitive movie explanation. But I have extensive experience with real firearms in civilian, training, LEO, security and .mil use, so perhaps I can add something to the conversation. I'm also an NRA-certified range officer.
A "prop gun" can be anything. Movie productions use real firearms all the time. If a real firearm is used as a movie prop, it becomes a prop gun. Additionally, productions use non-firing replica firearms which might be made of metal, plastic or rubber; they're all prop guns. I've seen and handled non-firing replicas made of zinc alloy which looked, operated and felt very real, but I've also seen rubber and plastic ones which didn't. At a distance, the audience can't tell the difference.
Some pot metal (zinc) replicas can fire blanks, like a starter pistol, but all of the ones I've seen have plugged barrels and use non-standard blank ammunition. In one particular case, I handled a zinc replica of a 1911 .45 government issue pistol. At first glance it looked real, but digested smaller-than .45 blanks and had a partially plugged barrel. If someone had drilled the fake (zinc) barrel to accept real .45 acp ammo and then attempted to fire it, it would have exploded.
At this point in the Baldwin story, I'm 99% certain that he was using a real firearm as a prop gun and that - for whatever reason - it wound up with a real, live round in one of the chambers. Was he jackassing around with the revolver and accidentally shot those people or was he acting, as per the script? I don't know, but we've all seen movies where an actor fires directly at the camera.
It's probably fair to assume that Baldwin, as a well-known anti-gun activist, is not a good marksman. As such, if he aimed at the camera lens, as per a script, he'd probably miss it and that could explain why he hit the camera operator and the director standing behind her. If he was "playing around" with the gun, who knows what happened.
In any case - though the spin machine will go to great lengths to avoid this conclusion - Baldwin, being the operator of the revolver, had the ultimate responsibility to follow all firearms safety rules and personally inspect the weapon to ensure that it wasn't loaded with standard, live rounds.
That's on him. Period. End of story.
Best
Doc
vector7
Dot Collector
Interesting isn’t it
View: https://twitter.com/Rachell50437438/status/1451854599350992910?t=hElSUtGVE-dHKbyezW5MTw&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/ladybug_jean/status/1451878535208046595?t=Bjh-TegCZhvNGxByQ88myA&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/JMintheSW/status/1451877713547980810?t=96iFaX4-cd2H56NdPgUjcQ&s=19
TidesofTruth
Veteran Member
Especially so since he was the producer. Some here want to give him an out because he was simply a pawn actor with no obligation to adhere to the rules that we all must adhere to in this life because he was in "make believe land" BS He was also the producer and responsible for what goes on on that set. If it would have been another actor the Producer would still have been responsible. So as Actor or Producer or everyday man on the street handling a firearm ALL THE RULES APPLY in TRIPLICATE!
Sicario
The Executor
UPDATE: ‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
www.latimes.com
Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.
The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.
Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.
Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.
Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.
“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”
A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.
“The safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company, " Rust Movie Productions said in a statement. “Though we were not made aware of any official complaints concerning weapon or prop safety on set, we will be conducting an internal review of our procedures while production is shut down. We will continue to cooperate with the Santa Fe authorities in their investigation and offer mental health services to the cast and crew during this tragic time.”
The tragedy occurred Thursday afternoon during filming of a gunfight that began in a church that is part of the old Western town at the ranch. Baldwin’s character was supposed to back out of the church, according to production notes obtained by The Times. It was the 12th day of a 21-day shoot.
Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was huddled around a monitor lining up her next camera shot when she was accidentally killed by the prop gun fired by Baldwin.
The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.
Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.
Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.
Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fired it, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.
The person in charge of overseeing the gun props, known as the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, could not be reached for comment. The 24-year-old is the daughter of veteran armorer Thell Reed and had recently completed her first film as the head armorer for the movie “The Old Way,” with Clint Howard and Nicolas Cage.
Earlier in the day, the camera crew arrived as expected at 6:30 a.m. and began gathering their gear and personal belongings to leave, one knowledgeable crew member told The Times.
Labor trouble had been brewing for days on the dusty set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
Shooting began on Oct. 6 and members of the low-budget film said they had been promised the production would pay for their hotel rooms in Santa Fe.
But after filming began, the crews were told they instead would be required to make the 50-mile drive from Albuquerque each day, rather than stay overnight in nearby Santa Fe. That rankled crew members who worried that they might have an accident after spending 12 to 13 hours on the set.
Hutchins had been advocating for safer conditions for her team and was tearful when the camera crew left, said one crew member who was on the set.
“She said, ‘I feel like I’m losing my best friends,’” recalled one of the workers.
As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.
One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.
“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.
The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.
The Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said deputies were dispatched to the Bonanza Creek Ranch movie set after calls to 911 at 1:50 p.m. Thursday. Baldwin was starring in the movie and was serving as one of the producers.
No charges have been filed, but the Sheriff’s Office said that “witnesses continue to be interviewed by detectives.”
Baldwin said Friday that he was “fully cooperating with the police investigation” into the incident.
“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours,” Baldwin wrote Friday in a series of tweets.
Production has been halted on the movie.
In an email to its members, Local 44 of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, a union that represents prop masters, said the shot that killed Hutchins and injured Souza on Thursday was “a live single round.”
MOVIES
Alec Baldwin says he’s cooperating with investigation of fatal shooting on ‘Rust’ set
Oct. 22, 2021
“As many of us have already heard, there was an accidental weapons discharge on a production titled Rust being filmed in New Mexico,” said the North Hollywood-based local. “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza. Both were rushed to the hospital,” the email said. The New Mexico-based crew was represented by a different local.
A source close to the union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.
Bonanza Creek Ranch has been a popular filming location for more than 60 years. The first movie to film there was “The Man From Laramie,” starring Jimmy Stewart. It also was the set for “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs” and the popular TV show “Longmire.”
One of the financiers for “Rust” is Santa Monica-based lender BondIt Media Capital, founded in 2013 by Matthew Helderman and Luke Taylor. According to its website, BondIt finances movies through instruments including gap loans, bridge loans and tax credit financing.
The company has primarily financed low-budget movies including the Bruce Willis action flick “Hard Kill,” the Charlotte Kirk horror flick “The Reckoning” and the upcoming Robert De Niro film “Wash Me in the River,” directed by Randall Emmett.
BondIt was particularly active during the COVID-19 pandemic, stepping in to fill financing gaps as independent producers struggled to find backing for films during the public health crisis.
'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.
www.latimes.com
Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.
The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.
Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.
Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.
Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.
“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”
A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.
“The safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company, " Rust Movie Productions said in a statement. “Though we were not made aware of any official complaints concerning weapon or prop safety on set, we will be conducting an internal review of our procedures while production is shut down. We will continue to cooperate with the Santa Fe authorities in their investigation and offer mental health services to the cast and crew during this tragic time.”
The tragedy occurred Thursday afternoon during filming of a gunfight that began in a church that is part of the old Western town at the ranch. Baldwin’s character was supposed to back out of the church, according to production notes obtained by The Times. It was the 12th day of a 21-day shoot.
Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was huddled around a monitor lining up her next camera shot when she was accidentally killed by the prop gun fired by Baldwin.
The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.
Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.
Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.
Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fired it, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.
The person in charge of overseeing the gun props, known as the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, could not be reached for comment. The 24-year-old is the daughter of veteran armorer Thell Reed and had recently completed her first film as the head armorer for the movie “The Old Way,” with Clint Howard and Nicolas Cage.
Earlier in the day, the camera crew arrived as expected at 6:30 a.m. and began gathering their gear and personal belongings to leave, one knowledgeable crew member told The Times.
Labor trouble had been brewing for days on the dusty set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
Shooting began on Oct. 6 and members of the low-budget film said they had been promised the production would pay for their hotel rooms in Santa Fe.
But after filming began, the crews were told they instead would be required to make the 50-mile drive from Albuquerque each day, rather than stay overnight in nearby Santa Fe. That rankled crew members who worried that they might have an accident after spending 12 to 13 hours on the set.
Hutchins had been advocating for safer conditions for her team and was tearful when the camera crew left, said one crew member who was on the set.
“She said, ‘I feel like I’m losing my best friends,’” recalled one of the workers.
As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.
One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.
“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.
The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.
The Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said deputies were dispatched to the Bonanza Creek Ranch movie set after calls to 911 at 1:50 p.m. Thursday. Baldwin was starring in the movie and was serving as one of the producers.
No charges have been filed, but the Sheriff’s Office said that “witnesses continue to be interviewed by detectives.”
Baldwin said Friday that he was “fully cooperating with the police investigation” into the incident.
“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours,” Baldwin wrote Friday in a series of tweets.
Production has been halted on the movie.
In an email to its members, Local 44 of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, a union that represents prop masters, said the shot that killed Hutchins and injured Souza on Thursday was “a live single round.”
MOVIES
Alec Baldwin says he’s cooperating with investigation of fatal shooting on ‘Rust’ set
Oct. 22, 2021
“As many of us have already heard, there was an accidental weapons discharge on a production titled Rust being filmed in New Mexico,” said the North Hollywood-based local. “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza. Both were rushed to the hospital,” the email said. The New Mexico-based crew was represented by a different local.
A source close to the union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.
Bonanza Creek Ranch has been a popular filming location for more than 60 years. The first movie to film there was “The Man From Laramie,” starring Jimmy Stewart. It also was the set for “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs” and the popular TV show “Longmire.”
One of the financiers for “Rust” is Santa Monica-based lender BondIt Media Capital, founded in 2013 by Matthew Helderman and Luke Taylor. According to its website, BondIt finances movies through instruments including gap loans, bridge loans and tax credit financing.
The company has primarily financed low-budget movies including the Bruce Willis action flick “Hard Kill,” the Charlotte Kirk horror flick “The Reckoning” and the upcoming Robert De Niro film “Wash Me in the River,” directed by Randall Emmett.
BondIt was particularly active during the COVID-19 pandemic, stepping in to fill financing gaps as independent producers struggled to find backing for films during the public health crisis.
Theres some oddities in this. Some real straaaaange connections. I am hearing rumors that this was not accidental. Im gonna dive into the 'woo' for a minute:
*Language warning on 1st Screenshot*
Then there is this. Wasnt someone just indicted in the Russiagate haox?
*Language warning on 1st Screenshot*
Then there is this. Wasnt someone just indicted in the Russiagate haox?
bw
Fringe Ranger
Ahh, another firearms expert.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
UPDATE: ‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.
Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.
The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.
Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.
Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.
Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.
“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”
A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.
“The safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company, " Rust Movie Productions said in a statement. “Though we were not made aware of any official complaints concerning weapon or prop safety on set, we will be conducting an internal review of our procedures while production is shut down. We will continue to cooperate with the Santa Fe authorities in their investigation and offer mental health services to the cast and crew during this tragic time.”
The tragedy occurred Thursday afternoon during filming of a gunfight that began in a church that is part of the old Western town at the ranch. Baldwin’s character was supposed to back out of the church, according to production notes obtained by The Times. It was the 12th day of a 21-day shoot.
Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was huddled around a monitor lining up her next camera shot when she was accidentally killed by the prop gun fired by Baldwin.
The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.
Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.
Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.
Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fired it, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.
The person in charge of overseeing the gun props, known as the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, could not be reached for comment. The 24-year-old is the daughter of veteran armorer Thell Reed and had recently completed her first film as the head armorer for the movie “The Old Way,” with Clint Howard and Nicolas Cage.
Earlier in the day, the camera crew arrived as expected at 6:30 a.m. and began gathering their gear and personal belongings to leave, one knowledgeable crew member told The Times.
Labor trouble had been brewing for days on the dusty set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
Shooting began on Oct. 6 and members of the low-budget film said they had been promised the production would pay for their hotel rooms in Santa Fe.
But after filming began, the crews were told they instead would be required to make the 50-mile drive from Albuquerque each day, rather than stay overnight in nearby Santa Fe. That rankled crew members who worried that they might have an accident after spending 12 to 13 hours on the set.
Hutchins had been advocating for safer conditions for her team and was tearful when the camera crew left, said one crew member who was on the set.
“She said, ‘I feel like I’m losing my best friends,’” recalled one of the workers.
As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.
One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.
“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.
The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.
The Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said deputies were dispatched to the Bonanza Creek Ranch movie set after calls to 911 at 1:50 p.m. Thursday. Baldwin was starring in the movie and was serving as one of the producers.
No charges have been filed, but the Sheriff’s Office said that “witnesses continue to be interviewed by detectives.”
Baldwin said Friday that he was “fully cooperating with the police investigation” into the incident.
“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours,” Baldwin wrote Friday in a series of tweets.
Production has been halted on the movie.
In an email to its members, Local 44 of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, a union that represents prop masters, said the shot that killed Hutchins and injured Souza on Thursday was “a live single round.”
MOVIES
Alec Baldwin says he’s cooperating with investigation of fatal shooting on ‘Rust’ set
Oct. 22, 2021
“As many of us have already heard, there was an accidental weapons discharge on a production titled Rust being filmed in New Mexico,” said the North Hollywood-based local. “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza. Both were rushed to the hospital,” the email said. The New Mexico-based crew was represented by a different local.
A source close to the union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.
Bonanza Creek Ranch has been a popular filming location for more than 60 years. The first movie to film there was “The Man From Laramie,” starring Jimmy Stewart. It also was the set for “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs” and the popular TV show “Longmire.”
One of the financiers for “Rust” is Santa Monica-based lender BondIt Media Capital, founded in 2013 by Matthew Helderman and Luke Taylor. According to its website, BondIt finances movies through instruments including gap loans, bridge loans and tax credit financing.
The company has primarily financed low-budget movies including the Bruce Willis action flick “Hard Kill,” the Charlotte Kirk horror flick “The Reckoning” and the upcoming Robert De Niro film “Wash Me in the River,” directed by Randall Emmett.
BondIt was particularly active during the COVID-19 pandemic, stepping in to fill financing gaps as independent producers struggled to find backing for films during the public health crisis.
Criminal negligence is indicated here. With having several other firearms incidents on the set and no actions taken to rectify it and with other staff members raising concerns and nothing was done then I'd say the production company as well as Baldwin is deservedly in some very hot water. This isn't a simple accident but one that was likely to happen through repeated negligence.
armadillogray
Inactive
Somehow I think it was a disgruntled employee. The morning news mentioned several quit that day before the incident and he WAS the coproducer
bw
Fringe Ranger
Be careful. I said a couple pages back that someone other than Baldwin might also be culpable, and the peanut gallery jumped all over me.
TKO
Veteran Member
Or an execution.
Interesting how "misfires" are now being characterized as accidental discharges.
Leave it to the media to typically mess up a technical issue and use whatever language they choose to use.
Also, with Baldwin being one of the producers, he bears a large amount of responsibility for what occurs during the filming of that movie. Health and safety of the crew is a very large part of that responsibility.
I figure it's possible that the people on set are actually beginning to speak up, and media filtering/ignorance might be slipping. An accidental discharge (or three in the week previous!
) is a bit more descriptive and damning than the more general term "misfire".
Ping Jockey
Inactive
Countrymouse
Country exile in the city
Why not?
This liberal (I almost mis-typed "Lieberal" but maybe that's not so far-fetched indeed) generation has ALREADY accepted the stretching of the definition of "vaccine" out of all recognition.
As they have done to many other words--
Why not change "accident" to mean, "when it's someone on our side does this, it's an 'accident', but when it's someone on 'their' side (conservative, etc.) then it's cold-blooded murder"
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I figure it's possible that the people on set are actually beginning to speak up, and media filtering/ignorance might be slipping. An accidental discharge (or three in the week previous!
It should be noted that within the firearms world, the term accidental discharge or "AD" has been almost entirely replaced with the term "ND" for negligent discharge. Why? Because when every accidental discharge is closely examined, there is almost invariably negligence involved at some level.
Best
Doc
firefly2021
Member
Guns kill people...people don't kill people. Yet another thing twisted backwards in the upside down world we find ourselves in. It's perfect! Gun control for all!!! I think nothing will happen to him, he also survived the answering machine incident where he called his 13 year old daughter a disgusting pig etc for 5+ minutes, a far cry from killing someone but for some reason (depravity) the more heinous you are the more they love you in hollyweird...
somewherepress
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Some things I didn't know about "prop ammo" from a movie armorer.
Western movies pose a number of challenges.
Revolvers allow the bullet to be seen when viewed from the front. Also the brass rims are visible when the cylinder is viewed from the side. Also most characters are wearing gun belts or bandoliers which display a dozen or more rounds.
Thus with a dozen or so actors and weapons in a scene, one has dozens and dozens of rounds of ammo that need to be displayed for any sort of realism. This ammunition requires some sort of projectile being visible on camera. Thus there is a lot of "dummy" ammo on a typical set and it needs to be very carefully supervised.
The armorer in the news clip stated that he uses cartridges that have no powder in them. The powder is replaced with a "BB" so that each cartridge audibly rattles when shook.
He also points the "loaded" weapon at the ground and "fires" the weapon through a full cylinder twice to demonstrate that no live ammo is present. Then he hands the weapon directly o the actor.
He did not elaborate on how, if, and when he uses percussive "blank" ammunition.
IMO - Regardless, Alec Baldwin is a veteran actor has handled firearms in almost a dozen movies. And again I'll add, as a co-producer of "Rust", Baldwin is ultimately responsible for the safety of the cast and crew.
Runtime 6:33
Alec Baldwin film set shooting: How do prop guns become deadly? | DW News
View: https://youtu.be/bhjPpjbL9Nw
Western movies pose a number of challenges.
Revolvers allow the bullet to be seen when viewed from the front. Also the brass rims are visible when the cylinder is viewed from the side. Also most characters are wearing gun belts or bandoliers which display a dozen or more rounds.
Thus with a dozen or so actors and weapons in a scene, one has dozens and dozens of rounds of ammo that need to be displayed for any sort of realism. This ammunition requires some sort of projectile being visible on camera. Thus there is a lot of "dummy" ammo on a typical set and it needs to be very carefully supervised.
The armorer in the news clip stated that he uses cartridges that have no powder in them. The powder is replaced with a "BB" so that each cartridge audibly rattles when shook.
He also points the "loaded" weapon at the ground and "fires" the weapon through a full cylinder twice to demonstrate that no live ammo is present. Then he hands the weapon directly o the actor.
He did not elaborate on how, if, and when he uses percussive "blank" ammunition.
IMO - Regardless, Alec Baldwin is a veteran actor has handled firearms in almost a dozen movies. And again I'll add, as a co-producer of "Rust", Baldwin is ultimately responsible for the safety of the cast and crew.
Runtime 6:33
Alec Baldwin film set shooting: How do prop guns become deadly? | DW News
vector7
Dot Collector
Let me help you out. I’m surprised you don’t know this, but maybe you’re just not a gun guy. In the first pic pasted in post 207, point #1 states that “only dummy rounds (no gunpowder) or blanks (no bullets) are allowed on set.” Are you unaware that there is such a thing as “dummy rounds?” They look like real ammunition but are inert. That’s what are used in gunbellts and revolvers when the camera is looking at the front of the cylinder.
I was talking about dummy rounds.
My key point was that some movie armorers place a BB inside the assembled, powderless, cartridge so that it rattles when shaken. Thus audibly confirming it is a dummy round
There are dummy rds that are just solid milled chunks of metal shaped like a bullet. I’d bet that’s what’s in gunbelts.
That would be the best solution.
ShadowMan
Designated Grumpy Old Fart
One negligent discharge....might be accidental carelessness.
TWO negligent discharges - now that's plain stupidity, extreme carelessness and VERY suspicious.
THREE negligent discharges - is intentional stupidity coupled with deliberate sabotage.
FOUR NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES - IS MURDER!
Lightening does not strike FOUR TIMES!! Nope! Someone wanted someone hurt or killed!
It will be VERY interesting to see EXACTLY whose finger prints (if any) are on that firearm and live expended round...hmmmm.
TWO negligent discharges - now that's plain stupidity, extreme carelessness and VERY suspicious.
THREE negligent discharges - is intentional stupidity coupled with deliberate sabotage.
FOUR NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES - IS MURDER!
Lightening does not strike FOUR TIMES!! Nope! Someone wanted someone hurt or killed!
It will be VERY interesting to see EXACTLY whose finger prints (if any) are on that firearm and live expended round...hmmmm.
bw
Fringe Ranger
Another common signal is to drill holes through the brass side to side. Not visible in a gunbelt or in the chamber, but obvious when handled individually. Dummy rounds are also made with the shoulder crimped into a fluted shape.
bw
Fringe Ranger
It's the shoulder or case, not the nose, that is crimped. Can't be seen in most positions.
Ping Jockey
Inactive
Amazing how much input can be had over trivial matters.
Blank rounds, particularly rifle caliber rounds, are crimped at the neck. Anyone who has been in the .mil and in line units have fired blank, neck-crimped rounds playing war games. Blank firing adapters are mounted on the muzzle on semi and fully automatic weapons so the action will cycle.
Dummy, or inert, rounds can be found all over the net. They can be made of literally any metal, painted or coated to look just like live rounds. These are what is used as props in movies, particularly westerns, where dummy rounds are loaded into gun belt loops or draped across shoulders in belts.
There are blanks made that have wadding packed on top of a weak powder charge to give the visual effect of the weapon discharging. These are mainly used in wheel guns and Winchester type rifles for all the smoke and noise effects. Even movies showing modern weapons these are used so the action will cycle.
I’ve seen M16’s have the flash suppressor taken off and a 5.56 case with the primer extracted out of the pocket and the case sawn just at the base. The primerless base is then put into the end of the barrel and the flash suppressor screwed back on. This gives a weapon flash AND enough back pressure to cycle the weapon.
There are any number of ways a prop gun can be made to look realistic whilst making a movie, even CGI. But all that doesn’t matter because Alec the chucker shot and killed a woman and injured another. He’s at fault. He was responsible the moment he placed the weapon in his mitt and pulled the trigger.
Blank rounds, particularly rifle caliber rounds, are crimped at the neck. Anyone who has been in the .mil and in line units have fired blank, neck-crimped rounds playing war games. Blank firing adapters are mounted on the muzzle on semi and fully automatic weapons so the action will cycle.
Dummy, or inert, rounds can be found all over the net. They can be made of literally any metal, painted or coated to look just like live rounds. These are what is used as props in movies, particularly westerns, where dummy rounds are loaded into gun belt loops or draped across shoulders in belts.
There are blanks made that have wadding packed on top of a weak powder charge to give the visual effect of the weapon discharging. These are mainly used in wheel guns and Winchester type rifles for all the smoke and noise effects. Even movies showing modern weapons these are used so the action will cycle.
I’ve seen M16’s have the flash suppressor taken off and a 5.56 case with the primer extracted out of the pocket and the case sawn just at the base. The primerless base is then put into the end of the barrel and the flash suppressor screwed back on. This gives a weapon flash AND enough back pressure to cycle the weapon.
There are any number of ways a prop gun can be made to look realistic whilst making a movie, even CGI. But all that doesn’t matter because Alec the chucker shot and killed a woman and injured another. He’s at fault. He was responsible the moment he placed the weapon in his mitt and pulled the trigger.
homecanner1
Veteran Member
the woo is off the charts on this one
Another coincidence with the murder of Halyna Hutchins after talking about … Clinton – World-Signals News
Another coincidence with the murder of Halyna Hutchins after talking about … Clinton – World-Signals News
bw
Fringe Ranger
Yeah, I don't buy that one for a second.
homecanner1
Veteran Member
Repeating, the woo is off the charts on this one
Crazy Days and Nights: Blind Item #8
Halyna Hutchins (@halynahutchins) • Instagram photos and videos
Crazy Days and Nights: Blind Item #8
Halyna Hutchins (@halynahutchins) • Instagram photos and videos
Alec Baldwin shooting victim was wife of Latham & Watkins lawyer
By David Thomas
(Reuters) - The husband of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer who was fatally shot by actor Alec Baldwin with a prop gun on Thursday, is a corporate lawyer in Latham & Watkins' Los Angeles office.
Matt Hutchins joined Latham as an associate this year. Earlier he was an in-house lawyer at an entertainment company and practiced at Kirkland & Ellis and Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, according to his LinkedIn profile.
Hutchins told news outlets Friday that he had spoken with Baldwin and said the actor was supportive. He could not be immediately reached for comment. A Latham spokesperson declined to comment.
Halyna Hutchins was killed when Baldwin discharged a prop firearm on the set of his Western movie "Rust" in New Mexico. The Santa Fe Sheriff's Department said it is investigating the incident, which also left the film's director, Joel Souza, injured.
Baldwin posted on social media Friday that he was in shock, writing, "My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna."
Hutchins, 42, who was originally from Ukraine and grew up on a Soviet military base in the Arctic Circle, once worked as an investigative reporter in Europe, according to her website.
She graduated from the American Film Institute in 2015 and was selected as one of American Cinematographer's Rising Stars of 2019, according to her website biography.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/STGAQO3MFBPUTJTYZL35XSZKK4.jpg)
www.reuters.com
By David Thomas
- Halyna Hutchins was killed when Baldwin discharged a prop firearm
- Her husband Matt Hutchins is an M&A lawyer in Los Angeles
(Reuters) - The husband of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer who was fatally shot by actor Alec Baldwin with a prop gun on Thursday, is a corporate lawyer in Latham & Watkins' Los Angeles office.
Matt Hutchins joined Latham as an associate this year. Earlier he was an in-house lawyer at an entertainment company and practiced at Kirkland & Ellis and Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, according to his LinkedIn profile.
Hutchins told news outlets Friday that he had spoken with Baldwin and said the actor was supportive. He could not be immediately reached for comment. A Latham spokesperson declined to comment.
Halyna Hutchins was killed when Baldwin discharged a prop firearm on the set of his Western movie "Rust" in New Mexico. The Santa Fe Sheriff's Department said it is investigating the incident, which also left the film's director, Joel Souza, injured.
Baldwin posted on social media Friday that he was in shock, writing, "My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna."
Hutchins, 42, who was originally from Ukraine and grew up on a Soviet military base in the Arctic Circle, once worked as an investigative reporter in Europe, according to her website.
She graduated from the American Film Institute in 2015 and was selected as one of American Cinematographer's Rising Stars of 2019, according to her website biography.
Alec Baldwin shooting victim was wife of Latham & Watkins lawyer
The husband of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer who was fatally shot by actor Alec Baldwin with a prop gun on Thursday, is a corporate lawyer in Latham & Watkins' Los Angeles office.
www.reuters.com
Buick Electra
TB2K Girls with Guns
I just find these STAGED photos very interesting. Is the hand on the right knee a code or a 'thing?'
jward
passin' thru
If I were defense for the prop guy in charge of on set ammunitions (whatever the heck is real title is) or Baldwin, I'd certainly be flooding the air waves with woo too.
Mark Harris
@MarkHarrisNYC
Important update about what happened on the set from the NY Times. https://nytimes.com/live/2021/10/2
Mark Harris
@MarkHarrisNYC
Important update about what happened on the set from the NY Times. https://nytimes.com/live/2021/10/2
FNFAL1958
Senior Member
AOC is using its left hand