FOOD Making my first loaf of bread machine bread this evening - SECOND LOAF, post 133; now THIRD, post 154 - fell. What went wrong?
- Thread starter Dennis Olson
- Start date
I mentioned the water issue earlier.
When I first started, the recipe I used called for 1 1/8 cup water and it was kind of sloshy but I did not know any better and let it go. Bread was fine.
Then I changed recipe and it called for 1 cup of water and the dough was kind of sticky and would thump thump against one side of the machine.
So i read up.
Problems and Solutions - Bread Machines | CraftyBaking | Formerly Baking911
THE MISSION OF THE BREAD BAKER is to convert a relatively tasteless flour starch into a sweet, multilayered flavor or to evoke the fullest potential of flavor from the grain, while understanding how to manipulate time and temperature in all of the breadmaking stages. The hands, eyes, ears...
www.craftybaking.com
Grouchy Granny
Deceased
We've all been there Dennis - bread making is an art learned over the course of a lifetime, at least in my case. And, I've been at it for about 50 or so years now. Still learn something new with every loaf I make.
Grouchy Granny
Deceased
I try to keep the bread at the same altitude as myself when I am kneading it
sometimes we are both a little higher than ..normal??
hunybee
Veteran Member
this would be the part that environmental variations can make a difference in the same recipe. it is possible that environmental changes could be contributing. it could be that you added too much water. it could be that there is not enough gluten. it could be that your yeast got too exuberant, and rose too much and then fell. it could be that you need more strength to it. maybe add an egg. that will help with the structure.
it can be a lot of things
Was Hairy in there thumping the counter with his tail?
Vulture45-70
Veteran Member
Bosch White 6.5 Qt. Universal Plus Mixer - MUM6N10UC-DE
subnet
Boot
Just the top?
I've had that happen on one of mine, the rest of the loaf was fine. I usually only use the machine to do the kneading now and bake in bread pans or baguette trays.
SouthernBreeze
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I don't know how true this is. Others with more experience with bread making will probably know, though. I have always heard that one should not bake any bread on days that the humidity is high, and the barometric pressure is low. I use that as a rule of thumb, whether it makes a difference or not.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Happens in bread bakers sometimes, more often in ovens because of over-rising; also what is the weather like in Texas right now?
Humid weather, approaching storms and especially lightening can have some issues - you might want to try using the dough function on the bread baker (if you really just want hot bread) take the dough out and make it into rolls (even rough ones) or roll them out flat on a cookie sheet for either rolls or flatbreads (add some olive oil and a bit dried oregano and garlic - presto focaccia bread or a pizza base).
I find that when the weather is just too humid, like today is; rolls and flatbreads are my friends a properly raised loaf is more tricky and often turns out dense and hard (or crumbly).
Humid weather, approaching storms and especially lightening can have some issues - you might want to try using the dough function on the bread baker (if you really just want hot bread) take the dough out and make it into rolls (even rough ones) or roll them out flat on a cookie sheet for either rolls or flatbreads (add some olive oil and a bit dried oregano and garlic - presto focaccia bread or a pizza base).
I find that when the weather is just too humid, like today is; rolls and flatbreads are my friends a properly raised loaf is more tricky and often turns out dense and hard (or crumbly).
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Also, with the flat-focaccia style herb bread/pizza bases, you don't want them to rise much (just about 15 to 20 minutes) and Southernbreeze is absolutely right about the humidity, air pressure and how it affects yeastie beasties.
Cook in a hot oven (about 425 to 450) with a pan of water on the bottom rack (preheat) the steam will make a hard, "Italian" of "French" bread type of crust (you can also add herbs and up to one tsp of garlic powder to the dough itself).
Cook in a hot oven (about 425 to 450) with a pan of water on the bottom rack (preheat) the steam will make a hard, "Italian" of "French" bread type of crust (you can also add herbs and up to one tsp of garlic powder to the dough itself).
I usually check for stickiness during the first few minutes of mixing. I check to see if the dough is sticking to the sides once the dough starts making a nice ball. If it is, I add a little flour until it gets nice and smooth.
Note: I don't remove the paddle until after the loaf has baked. The machine can with a wire hook to fish the paddle out after baking.
Bumblepuff
Veteran Member
SouthernBreeze
Has No Life - Lives on TB
It's true after all! Weather does make a difference. I've tried baking cakes with damp conditions and a low barometric reading outside. Cake didn't rise all that well. So, now I never plan to bake anything in those conditions. Texas had a round of storms move through, yesterday.
From the article I posted.
Collapsed loaf / Open texture / Raw on top
- Too much yeast. Adjust amount of yeast downward by 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon.
- Too little flour / too much liquid. Add in 1 to 2 tablespoons flour
Thunderbird
Veteran Member
We have never had a bad loaf (knock on wood) with our Zojirushi. Maybe the more expensive bread makers have a better algorithm. Our first bread maker was subject to the inconsistencies you are seeing, weather, barometric pressure and humidity were prime factors.
No, I’m sure it’s my technique. I just got back from the semi-denuded Walmart. I wanted to get some “practice” flour. Nope. No flour, no yeast.
pretty sure, somewhere on the machine is a label that says
"do not dropkick while I use"
Someone mentioned earlier, weigh your bulkier ingredients...to include liquids.
It's more accurate, if you have a decent scale.
I have a decent scale, but the measurements in the recipe book are by measure rather than weight.
As to temperature and humidity, I keep the house at 72 deg and 50% humidity pretty much all the time.
As to temperature and humidity, I keep the house at 72 deg and 50% humidity pretty much all the time.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Zeker, making yeast bread has always been a bit complicated and it is one reason a vast majority of people in history made flatbreads or "griddle cakes" which were often leveled with wild yeast but they were not really expected to rise much.
Yeast is a living thing (until killed by cooking) and therefore simply impossible to always predict, flours and liquids can also be vastly affected by things outside the control of the bread maker.
Thankfully, Dennis got a perfect loaf the first time so he knows it can happen; I suggested the flatbread option in the oven just to give him some more positive feedback (and dinner).
It is possible to get really good results in a bread baker (and some books and on-line recipes do use weights rather than measuring cups) but there is a learning curve.
Yeast is a living thing (until killed by cooking) and therefore simply impossible to always predict, flours and liquids can also be vastly affected by things outside the control of the bread maker.
Thankfully, Dennis got a perfect loaf the first time so he knows it can happen; I suggested the flatbread option in the oven just to give him some more positive feedback (and dinner).
It is possible to get really good results in a bread baker (and some books and on-line recipes do use weights rather than measuring cups) but there is a learning curve.
Weigh the ingredients that are given by volume and keep notes.
There are many weight/volume references online, print and stick inside a cabinet door.
Millwright's Mom is a fantastic baker, she approaches things from a background in chemistry.
She works by weight not volume.
I thought about converting, but everything is relative. One cup of one kind of flour can have a much different weight than a cup of a different flour. So it’s better to start with recipes that use weights rather than attempt inaccurate conversions. I wanted to get some practice flour to experiment with, but I’m sure all the “mamacitas” have pantries full at my expense.
Use 1/3 fresh ground wheat to 2/3 white flour for a well risen loaf. If you use all fresh ground wheat, if will be very thick and dense. Or, if using all fresh ground wheat add more (1/3) yeast and use dough setting. Then, put in bread pans, cover with towel, and wait for it to double. Takes several hours.
ShadowMan
Designated Grumpy Old Fart
What Millwright said!
Have been baking bread most of my adult life and also moved all over the place during that time: High altitude, low altitude, high humidity, low humidity, etc., etc., etc. I've learned to keep notes when in a new area and under different conditions and adjust accordingly.
WEIGH IT! WEIGHT IT! WEIGHT IT!
Try this. Even when a recipe calls for a volume measurement, get the volume and then weight it and jot down the numbers. You'll be surprised to find that different flours will weigh out differently even though of the same volume and will weight differently due to humidity in both the air and the flour. Another thing to consider is the age of the flour. Older flour gets what I call FLAT. The fresher the flour the better the loaf.
It's kind of a pain at first to keep notes, however with a little practice you'll zero in on the perfect recipe for your area, weather and type of flour. I used to mix all my bread my hand and got to know the feel of a good mix. Thus I'd start with what the recipe called for and adjust the mix based on the feel of the dough. A little wet, add flour. A little dry, add water. Knead until it felt just right.
A bread machine is an awesome convenience and it also has a learning curve. But however you make your bread once in a while you'll get a brick for no known reason. I figure it's natures way of informing you it's still in control!
The other thing to remember is that Whole Wheat Bread is a MEAL!! Having grown up with the FAKE store bought stuff in supermarkets we have to relearn what REAL bread is......and that stuff in the store AIN'T IT! But DAMN is homemade real whole wheat bread GOOD!!
Here’s the deal. I don’t have the amount of flour necessary to run 20 experiments. If a couple folks have some 5 lb packages of white flour they’d be willing to send, I’d sure take it. It’s a certain fact that you can’t get flour in the greater austin area.
Have you wandered east for shopping?
There may be more of everything in smaller towns, away from the blue masses.
There may be more of everything in smaller towns, away from the blue masses.
Pretend it is edible science. All cooking is anyway.
You're an engineer, you are bound to have an engineering notebook or spiral notebook around there.
The basic process is prepare you loaf - take notes.
bake a loaf - take notes.
eat a loaf and review the article
Problems and Solutions - Bread Machines | CraftyBaking | Formerly Baking911
THE MISSION OF THE BREAD BAKER is to convert a relatively tasteless flour starch into a sweet, multilayered flavor or to evoke the fullest potential of flavor from the grain, while understanding how to manipulate time and temperature in all of the breadmaking stages. The hands, eyes, ears...
www.craftybaking.com
(I have made bread with cheap Dollar General Flour
As I said, there’s no flour in austin.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Dennis, if you have to conserve the flour then try either the flatbreads or making some rolls (even funny looking ones taste good) neither have to rise all that much to be good and both are best eaten hot out of the oven or reheated in foil.
A slightly stale flatbread like I described makes a great pizza base the next day, rolls are better if they fully rise but even "hockey pucks" are great in hot soup or as dumplings.
A slightly stale flatbread like I described makes a great pizza base the next day, rolls are better if they fully rise but even "hockey pucks" are great in hot soup or as dumplings.
Profit of Doom
Dismember
There’s no cry in baseball, either.
I picked up 20 pounds when I started my shopping after they locked down Wuhan. Shoulda done more. Wife has never asked what we have. Never saw what I brought home, never looked at receipts. Rarely comes into kitchen anymore.
I have no counter space on which to roll dough
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Oh you don't have to roll the dough, you just pinch it into balls and take it right out of the bread baker (I do this on the kitchen table) you can put the rolls in anything from a bread loaf pan to a piece of foil sitting on the table (unless you eat standing up and some people do, I'm guessing you have one).
Seriously you could even do this on a cold oven rack, just pull the rack out and lay a cookie sheet, overproof pan or dish, and either pinch the dough into shape or even just sort of drop weird shaped pieces onto it (oil or better is a good thing to place on any surface).
The funny shapes are even a traditional for of Yeast Bread in Ireland (almost the only one) called Blaa
en.wikipedia.org
If you can't roll out a flatbread, again if you have a kitchen table, cold oven rack or chair and press the dough directly onto the cookie sheet (or the inside of an ovenproof Cast Iron Skillet.
You can just push down with your fingers until it is more or less flat, spread it with olive oil and cook at between 400 and 450 with a pan of water underneath on the floor of the oven or bottom rack (optional) and check it in about 13 to 15 minutes. It is done when cooked through - results will vary from the kind of doughy but nice to almost a cracker (all are good, at least when hot).
Finally, does your bread baker have multiple size loaf settings? If it does try making the smallest size for the next few tries it will save on flour and give you a small loaf every day.
Seriously you could even do this on a cold oven rack, just pull the rack out and lay a cookie sheet, overproof pan or dish, and either pinch the dough into shape or even just sort of drop weird shaped pieces onto it (oil or better is a good thing to place on any surface).
The funny shapes are even a traditional for of Yeast Bread in Ireland (almost the only one) called Blaa
Blaa - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
If you can't roll out a flatbread, again if you have a kitchen table, cold oven rack or chair and press the dough directly onto the cookie sheet (or the inside of an ovenproof Cast Iron Skillet.
You can just push down with your fingers until it is more or less flat, spread it with olive oil and cook at between 400 and 450 with a pan of water underneath on the floor of the oven or bottom rack (optional) and check it in about 13 to 15 minutes. It is done when cooked through - results will vary from the kind of doughy but nice to almost a cracker (all are good, at least when hot).
Finally, does your bread baker have multiple size loaf settings? If it does try making the smallest size for the next few tries it will save on flour and give you a small loaf every day.
Profit of Doom
Dismember
Dennis, whatever you are doing, at least you are doing something useful, and generally yummy as well. Keep it up!
Poster in a local head shop; Drink Your Beer! There Are Sober Kids In India.
Poster in a local head shop; Drink Your Beer! There Are Sober Kids In India.
No dining table either (this was all in my original whine about wanting a bread machine.)