CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

jba48

Veteran Member
I starting taking Lisinopril last month, also a low dose, after months of trying to convince my primary care MD that it was just stress and anxiety due to a seriously ill family member. It is, at least most of it, but that doesn't lessen the damage HBP can do. Do not stop taking your meds without speaking with your MD!!

I've read articles that say it can negatively and positively affect the nasties with coronavirus - they don't really seem to know. You do know, though, what HBP can and often does do. Not a good time to be having a stroke...no time is a good time.
I think you're right! After posting that, I did just a little research, and it seems that is not conclusive yet because there are so many additional factors that those with hypertension might have along with it, i.e., diabetes, that they are not positive yet it's the drugs. Thanks for you advice!
 
Infections in Italy slow for a third day


According to the World Health Organization, Italy could reach its peak number of coronavirus cases on Sunday, reports my colleague Lorenzo Tondo.

The death toll from coronavirus in Italy rose by 743 to 6,820 on Tuesday, dampening hopes that a slowdown in the rate of deaths on Sunday and Monday would follow a trend. However, the rate of new infections slowed for a third day, rising by 3,612, compared with 3,780 new cases on Monday.​
‘’This is an extremely positive factor,’’ told Radio Capital on Wednesday, Ranieri Guerra, WHO assistant director general. ‘’In some regions we are close to the falling point of the curve and therefore probably the peak could be reached this week and then fall. I believe that this week and the first days of the next will be crucial.’’​
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A week ago, years in Corona time, they reported an inability to keep up with accurate reporting. Deaths in particular. This is representative of systemic overload. Small decreases in case reporting may suggest a plateau of sorts. Movement restrictions may have helped. Way too early to be overly optimistic.​
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Belgium sees 50% increase in hospital admissions on previous day.

Jennifer Rankin

Jennifer Rankin

Belgium has seen a significant rise in people being admitted to hospital for coronavirus, as experts warned the disease had not yet reached its peak, reports my colleague Jennifer Rankin in Brussels.

At a daily briefing, Belgium’s federal crisis centre announced that 434 people had been admitted to hospital in the last 24 hours, an increase of 50% on the previous day. Hospital admissions had declined for two consecutive days, although experts had previously warned against calling that decline a trend.

Belgium now counts 4,937 people with a coronavirus diagnosis, an increase of 668 cases in the last 24 hours. A total of 178 people have lost their lives, including 56 recorded in the last count. Officials said not all had died in the last 24 hours and there had been delays in recording people who had passed away in care homes.

Crisis centre spokesman Emmanuel André said the increase in hospitalisations was significant: “It is very clear that we are not yet at the peak of the epidemic.” He added that it was very important that current measures - a nationwide lockdown - remain in force.

And he urged people not to wear surgical masks in the street, voicing concern that they give a “false impression of protection”, as people are less diligent in washing their hands.

Belgium’s prime minister Sophie Wilmès has been put on the defensive, after two surgeons criticised the government in a widely-shared open letter for not having enough tests for medical staff or patients, as well as a shortage of masks.

In a letter entitled “the double penalty on hospital staff” the medics deplored the lack of systematic tests for medical staff, meaning they could infect patients or family.

In a three-page reply published in Belgian media on Wednesday, Wilmès said the government was “working without respite” to safeguard the health of the population and medical staff. She said that in the last ten days 11.5m surgical masks and 459,000 specialist masks had arrived in the country and work was ongoing to increase stocks further.


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Add Belgium to Spain, France and Italy.

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jward

passin' thru

Sean Davis
@seanmdav

4m

Covid Act Now's models are demonstrable garbage, yet panicky and incompetent public officials who are too stupid to look under the hood are using them and destroying millions of livelihoods all across the country.
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Inaccurate Virus Models Are Panicking Officials Into Ill-Advised Lockdowns

How a handful of Democratic activists created alarming, but bogus data sets to scare local and state officials into making rash, economy-killing mandates.


As U.S. state and local officials halt the economy and quarantine their communities over the Wuhan virus crisis, one would hope our leaders were making such major decisions based on well-sourced data and statistical analysis. That is not the case.
A scan of statements made by media, state governors, local leaders, county judges, and more show many relying on the same source, an online mapping tool called COVID Act Now. The website says it is “built to enable political leaders to quickly make decisions in their Coronavirus response informed by best available data and modeling.”

An interactive map provides users a catastrophic forecast for each state, should they wait to implement COVID Act Now’s suggested strict measures to “flatten the curve.” But a closer look at how many of COVID Act Now’s predictions have already fallen short, and how they became a ubiquitous resource across the country overnight, suggests something more sinister.
When Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins announced a shelter-in-place order on Dallas County Sunday, he displayed COVID Act Now graphs with predictive outcomes after three months if certain drastic measures are taken. The NBC Dallas affiliate also embedded the COVID Act Now models in their story on the mandate.
Screen-Shot-2020-03-24-at-10.26.54-PM.png

The headline of an NBC Oregon affiliate featured COVID Act Now data, and a headline blaring, “Coronavirus model sees Oregon hospitals overwhelmed by mid-April.” Both The Oregonian and The East Oregonian also published stories featuring the widely shared data predicting a “point of no return.”

Screen-Shot-2020-03-24-at-10.31.37-PM.png

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer cited COVID Act Now when telling her state they would exceed 7 million cases in Michigan, with 1 million hospitalized and 460,000 deaths if the state did nothing.
A local CBS report in Georgia featured an Emory University professor urging Gov. Brian Kemp with the same “point of no return” language and COVID Act Now models.
We need ⁦@GovKemp⁩ to act now, the point of “no return” for GA is rapidly closing. To prevent a catastrophe in the healthcare system due to #COVID19 we need for him to shut down GA now. ⁦@drmt⁩ ⁦⁦@Armstrws⁩ ⁦@colleenkraftmdThis model predicts the last day each state can act before the point of no return
— Carlos del Rio (@CarlosdelRio7) March 21, 2020


The models are being shared across social media, news reports, and finding their way into officials’ daily decisions, which is concerning because COVID Act Now’s predictions have already been proven to be wildly wrong.
COVID Act Now predicted that by March 19 the state of Tennessee could expect 190 hospitalizations of patients with confirmed Wuhan virus. By March 19, they only had 15 patients hospitalized.
ET408E2XQAQWGMR.jpg

In New York, Covid Act Now claimed nearly 5,400 New Yorkers would’ve been hospitalized by March 19. The actual number of hospitalizations is around 750. The site also claimed nearly 13,000 New York hospitalizations by March 23. The actual number was around 2,500.

ET42P2NWoAA03u6.jpg

In Georgia, COVID Act Now predicted 688 hospitalizations by March 23. By that date, they had around 800 confirmed cases in the whole state, and fewer than 300 hospitalized.
georgia.jpg

In Florida, Covid Act Now predicted that by March 19, the state would face 400 hospitalizations. On March 19, Gov. Ron DeSantis said 90 people in Florida had been hospitalized.
florida.jpg

COVID Act Now’s models in other states, including Oklahoma and Virginia, were also far off in their predictions. Jordan Schachtel, a national security writer, said COVID Act Now’s modeling comes from one team based at Imperial College London that is not only highly scrutinized, but has a track record of bad predictions.
4) Their models come 100% from Imperial College UK projection that is coming under *heavy* scrutiny from scientific community. IC UK produced the famed doomsday scenario that guaranteed 2MM dead Americans. The man behind the projections is refusing to make his code public.
— Jordan Schachtel (@JordanSchachtel) March 24, 2020

Jessica Hamzelou at New Scientist notes the systematic errors researchers and scientists have found with the modeling COVID Act Now relies on:
Chen Shen at the New England Complex Systems Institute, a research group in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and his colleagues argue that the Imperial team’s model is flawed, and contains ‘incorrect assumptions’. They point out that the Imperial team’s model doesn’t account for the availability of tests, or the possibility of ‘super-spreader events’ at gatherings, and has other issues.
Among other issues, COVID Act Now lists the “Known Limitations” of their model. Here are a few that seem especially alarming, considering they generate a model for each individual state:
  • Many of the inputs into this model (hospitalization rate, hospitalization rate) are based on early estimates that are likely to be wrong.
  • Demographics, populations, and hospital bed counts are outdated. Demographics for the USA as a whole are used, rather than specific to each state.
  • The model does not adjust for the population density, culturally-determined interaction frequency and closeness, humidity, temperature, etc in calculating R0.
  • This is not a node-based analysis, and thus assumes everyone spreads the disease at the same rate. In practice, there are some folks who are ‘super-spreaders,’ and others who are almost isolated.
So why is the organization or seemingly innocent online mapping tool using inaccurate algorithms to scaremonger leaders into tanking the economy? Politics, of course.
Founders of the site include Democratic Rep. Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins and three Silicon Valley tech workers and Democratic activists — Zachary Rosen, Max Henderson, and Igor Kofman — who are all also donors to various Democratic campaigns and political organizations since 2016. Henderson and Kofman donated to the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016, while Rosen donated to the Democratic National Committee, recently resigned Democratic Rep. Katie Hill, and other Democratic candidates. Prior to building the COVID Act Now website, Kofman created an online game designed to raise $1 million for the eventual 2020 Democratic candidate and defeat President Trump. The game’s website is now defunct.
Perhaps the goal of COVID Act Now was never to provide accurate information, but to scare citizens and government officials into to implementing rash and draconian measures. The creators even admit as much with the caveat that “this model is designed to drive fast action, not predict the future.”
They generated this model under the guise of protecting communities from overrun hospitals, a trend that is not on track to happen as they predicted. Not only is the data false, and looking more incorrect with each passing day, but the website is optimized for a disinformation campaign.
A social media share button prompts users to share their models and alarming graphs on Facebook and Twitter with the auto-fill text, “This is the point of no return for intervention to prevent X’s hospital system from being overloaded by Coronavirus.”
Screen-Shot-2020-03-25-at-12.37.48-AM.png

The daunting phrase, the “point of no return,” is the same talking point being repeated by government officials justifying their shelter-in-place orders and filling local news headlines.
Democrats are not going to waste such a rich political opportunity as a global pandemic. Americans already witnessed Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and House Democrats attempt to take advantage of an economic recession with a pipe-dream relief bill this week. Projects like COVID Act Now are another attempt to play the same political games, but with help from unknown, behind-the-scenes Democratic activists instead.
Our community leaders, the mayors and the city councils, deserve better than to be swindled by a handful Silicon Valley tech bros. Our governors and state officials deserve better data and analysis than a Democratic activists’ model that doesn’t adjust for important geographical factors like population density or temperature. Americans and their families deserve better than to be jobless, hopeless, and quarantined because of a single website’s inaccurate and hyperbolic hospitalization models.

Madeline Osburn is a staff editor at the Federalist and the producer of The Federalist Radio Hour. Follow her on Twitter.

posted for fair use
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
While absolutely true, there is LOTS of scut work they can do while learning "on the job". Admittedly, I'm not sure if the overall result will be better or worse for the experienced professionals already doing the job. But it would seem the baby nurses could do everything from changing beds to paperwork, as well as running for supplies and answering call bells, freeing up the experienced staff for the more technical aspects.

Summerthyme
And I think it is the UK that plans to give their almost graduating doctors and nurses battlefield promotions, probably by next week (I think it was the UK, I saw the source on my phone when I was waking up).

Again, the US may not do this (I don't know) but doctors and nurses in Europe spend the last year to two years of their training doing hands-on work.

Nightwolf decided to go into medical writing and research rather than to actually practice but he has himself delivered babies, helped perform surgery, taken blood without supervision, done patient histories (mandatory and the first thing the let the trainee's do) give shots, check heart rates and even prescribe most medications.

There is no reason that "promoted" newbie nurses and doctors can't do all these things right now (they do them anyway during training) freeing as you say the older doctors and nurses from extra exposure and freeing the more experienced to do life-saving surgeries, emergency c-sections, work in critical care pressure rooms and so on.

As I said, it just depends on your levels of trust in their educational system and the degree of desperation encountered by a health system.

And if, it is simply legal liabilities that are sidelining these people from doing useful and desperately needed (not to say life-risking work to try to save others) than the law needs changing, RIGHT NOW.
 

jward

passin' thru
@JenGriffinFNC
Jennifer Griffin
@JenGriffinFNC

My Q to DoD Acquisition Chief: "Joint Chiefs on Feb 1 warned a pandemic was coming, what did you do to begin stockpiling masks, [PPE,] and ventilators at that time, can you take us back to when you started and why there isn't a greater stockpile in the U.S. military right now?"



Replying to
@JenGriffinFNC
Ellen Lord: "There is actually a very significant stockpile in the U.S. military... There are I believe 200 ventilators. Griffin: "I believe it was 2,000 ventilators that you had, did you start buying more ventilators? 2,000 is not going to solve the current crisis?"
Ellen Lord: "I understand. We are working on procuring more ventilators right now." My Q: But 6-weeks later, Feb. 1st was when the EXORD [execute order] went out, it's hard to understand why this is just beginning right now?

Ellen Lord, DoD Acquisition chief: "There were a lot of different efforts going on throughout the services throughout the agencies within DoD... We just started standing up [an all of government] capability on Friday." Says they must wait for FEMA and HHS demand.
 

jward

passin' thru
hope there is immediate legal pushback, as well as public outrage- but- it's Seattle, so... :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/898153945721339904/O****PfR_bigger.jpg

Disclose.tv

@disclosetv

9m

BREAKING - Seattle's NPR station won't air White House's #COVID19 briefings anymore because of "a pattern of false or misleading information"





KUOW Public Radio

@KUOW


However, we will not be airing the briefings live due to a pattern of false or misleading information provided that cannot be fact checked in real time. (2)
 
Head of German diseases control and prevention agency says “we are at the beginning of the epidemic"

From CNN's Nadine Schmidt and Stephanie Halasz

Lothar Wieler, President of Germany's Robert Koch Institute, gives a press conference on the spread of the novel coronavirus in Germany on March 23, in Berlin.

Lothar Wieler, President of Germany's Robert Koch Institute, gives a press conference on the spread of the novel coronavirus in Germany on March 23, in Berlin. Bernd von Jutrczenka/Pool/AFP/Getty Images

The President of Germany's Robert Koch Institute, the national agency for disease control and prevention, has warned that the coronavirus epidemic is just starting in the country.

“We are at the beginning of the epidemic and the number is growing,” Lothar Wieler said.

Addressing the comparatively low death rate in Germany, Wieler said “We don’t know why this is the case but there are several factors playing into it.”

There was widespread testing in Germany and many mildly ill people were detected, he said. And there hasn't been a large number of old people who have fallen sick so far.

But Wieler warned that it is completely "open ended how this epidemic will develop," and added that the death death toll will rise in Germany.


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Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
IIRC, it depends on which one you take. I think the calcium channel blockers are ok. Maybe it was MedCram that discussed it.

One of the cases I've been following posted this on his FB:



Yes, it is a calcium channel blocker. My PCP denied my request for a 'hold in reserve' Z-pack, but I explained my reasoning for why I didn't want certain kinds of BP meds, and she agreed.
 

raven

TB Fanatic
Essential Personnel are getting sick.
Have you noticed the number of essential personnel getting quarantined or getting sick.
That will be the result of "shelter in place".

It should be expected.
All the nonessential persons are sheltering in place so they are "safe" from getting the virus. OK then, under this plan nonessential persons won't get sick. That is the plan.
Essential persons are going about their business. And they are getting exposed because they are not sheltered.
Doctors, nurses, military, logistics, distribution, grocery clerks, delivery people.
That's the plan.

Oh sure, they have to go to work because they are "essential". They provide services without which us non essentials would just wither and die.
But I suppose no one thought about the fact that under this plan, at some point all the essentials will either be sick or quarantined. Do you believe that no one thought of it?

And what then?
Lets say one employee at the water plant in your town tests positive. At Amazon, they had to shut down the warehouse and "cleanse" it. Are they going to shut down the water department and cleanse it? Are the other employees going to be required to quarantine. Is the disease transmitted in the water supply - it is in sewage - I guess water too? Are they going to shut down your towns water?

No water, no electric, no food, no police? No martial law because the military are essential and will be exposed too.

Or will a politician simply declare the water supply safe - its been done for lead in the water.

As for me, I consider myself essential. And because I am essential, I am sheltering in place.

I think doctors are essential and believe they are the ones that should be sheltered.

All you non essential people feel free to wander about . . .
 

jward

passin' thru
Russia "ready to help" US fight coronavirus
From Samantha Beech in Atlanta


Russian Ambassador to the United States Anatoly Antonov on November 18, 2019, in Washington, DC.

Russian Ambassador to the United States Anatoly Antonov on November 18, 2019, in Washington, DC. Mark Wilson/Getty Images

Moscow is ready to help Washington in the fight against the coronavirus outbreak if necessary, according to the Russian ambassador to the United States, Anatoly Antonov.
"Our test kits have shown their high quality in China, Iran, have been transferred to Italy. Ordinary Americans should know -- Russia, if necessary, will be ready to help the United States as it has repeatedly offered assistance in putting out fires in California," said Antonov, as cited in the Russian state-owned news agency Sputnik.
The US faced its deadliest day of the outbreak on Tuesday, with at least 163 people dying. The death toll rose past 700, as the World Health Organization warned the country could be the next epicenter of the virus.

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hope there is immediate legal pushback, as well as public outrage- but- it's Seattle, so... :(
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/898153945721339904/O****PfR_bigger.jpg
Disclose.tv
@disclosetv

9m

BREAKING - Seattle's NPR station won't air White House's #COVID19 briefings anymore because of "a pattern of false or misleading information"


KUOW Public Radio
@KUOW


However, we will not be airing the briefings live due to a pattern of false or misleading information provided that cannot be fact checked in real time. (2)

Boeing should yank their funding.

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Four more Italian doctors die

Lorenzo Tondo

Lorenzo Tondo

Another four Italian doctors have died with the coronavirus, bringing the toll in the epidemic up to 29, the national federation of doctors told ANSA, reports Lorenzo Tondo in Italy.

Over 5,000 Italian health workers have been infected with Covid-19 so far.

The Assomed union has called for immediate action ‘’to provide all workers with individual protection equipment’’.

Meanwhile, Civil protection department head and coronavirus commissioner Angelo Borrelli has cancelled his daily six o’clock press conference after suffering symptoms of fever. The result of a test is being awaited.

Authorities will still release new figures at 6 pm.

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jward

passin' thru
How Medical ‘Chickenpox Parties’ Could Turn The Tide Of The Wuhan Virus
It is time to think outside the box and seriously consider a somewhat unconventional approach to COVID-19: controlled voluntary infection.



Douglas A. Perednia

By Douglas A. Perednia
March 25, 2020


By now, we all know America’s immediate COVID-19 action plan is to avoid rapid spread of the virus through good hygiene and isolation. The logic of this mitigation strategy is quite sound. As Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, has repeatedly explained, this approach will buy us time and flatten the curve of the national infection rate.
Both of these steps are needed because intensive care unit (ICU) resources are essential to managing the disease in older and sicker patients, but are inherently expensive and finite. We cannot afford to overwhelm them.

The problem with mitigation is that it is entirely defensive; it does little to make the country safe for a return to widespread social and economic activity. If and when social isolation and quarantine measures relax, coronavirus infection rates will rise in tandem.
The Imperial College has modeled the effect of imposing four interventions — social distancing of the entire population, case isolation, household quarantine, and school and university closure — then relaxing them periodically to allow daily life and economic activity to partially recover. They found, “Once interventions are relaxed … infections begin to rise, resulting in a predicted peak epidemic later in the year. The more successful a strategy is at temporary suppression, the larger the later epidemic is predicted to be in the absence of vaccination, due to lesser build-up of herd immunity.”
In other words, a mitigation strategy based on shutting down the economy is like asking society to hold its breath to keep from inhaling a toxin. It can’t keep up forever, and when it does breathe, all that gasping for air is going to undo much of the benefit we’d hoped to derive.
The alternative to mitigation is active suppression of the disease. The conventional approach for suppressing epidemics is the development of: 1) an effective vaccine and 2) drugs that could be used to reduce the severity. Despite record-time development of potential vaccines and the beginning of Phase I clinical trials, we are not likely to have a coronavirus vaccine widely available until at least mid- to late-2021. We can certainly hope effective drug therapies become available in that time, but there are certainly no guarantees.

Neither mitigation nor waiting for a vaccine is acceptable given the magnitude of the problem we are facing. Economies are like a living organism — as soon as their normal functions are shut down, they begin to die. Savings, capital, income, and taxes all evaporate. Companies begin to close, and many will not have the resources to begin again. Massive deficits will become a huge burden for future generations. Meanwhile, the regular health care system is all but shut down.
It is time to think outside the box and seriously consider a third, somewhat unconventional alternative: controlled voluntary infection (CVI).
What Is Controlled Volutary Infection?
CVI involves allowing people at low risk for severe complications to deliberately contract COVID-19 in a socially and medically responsible way so they become immune to the disease. People who are immune cannot pass on the disease to others.
If CVI were to become widespread and successful, it could be a powerful tool for both suppressing the Wuhan coronavirus and saving the economy. It could reduce the danger of passing COVID-19 to vulnerable populations, drastically reduce the amount of social isolation needed, reopen businesses, and even help achieve the level of “herd immunity” needed to stop the spread of the disease within the population.

Herd immunity, of course, is the phenomenon whereby contagious infections can no longer spread if a large enough percentage of the population is immune to the disease, and CVI is a means to achieve it. Many over the age of 60 might remember an interesting historical precedent for CVI: chickenpox parties.
Before vaccinations for childhood diseases such as chickenpox and German measles were developed, families would hold chickenpox or German measles “parties” when one child contracted the disease. All the neighborhood children were invited to play with the infected child with the understanding that they would probably become infected as a result. The entire community would get the disease out of the way in one little local epidemic. Since many childhood diseases are far more severe if contracted as an adult, voluntary infection minimized the potential for future adverse consequences.
CVI for COVID-19 is based upon a unique characteristic of the Wuhan virus: Its infections are known to be clinically mild in much of the population, specifically healthy young people — even to the point of being asymptomatic. According to data collected from the National Health Institute in Italy and a recent article in the Journal of the American Medical Association, the mortality rate for the disease is 0 percent in patients 0 to 29 years old. Mortality then begins to increase with age and with underlying defects in respiratory function or certain other disease conditions. See Table 1.
Table 1: Case-Fatality Rate and Characteristics of Patients Dying in Relation to COVID-19 in Italy.

Screen-Shot-2020-03-24-at-4.57.16-PM.png

There are exceptions, of course. According to a recently published study in the journal Pediatrics of 2,143 pediatric patients from China with confirmed or suspected cases of the Wuhan virus, one child died (0.05 percent). This is an order of magnitude lower than estimated mortality for the population as a whole.
The same study found that 10.6 percent of children under 1 year old experienced severe or critical symptoms, as did 7.3 percent of patients from 1 to 5 years old. The rate of severe illness then began to decrease with age; only about 3 percent of children 15 years old or older became seriously ill. Overall, the study found the rates of both serious disease and death in children to be far lower than the comparable rates in adults.
Table 2 shows the U.S. experience with pediatric and older patients through March 16, 2020. No childhood fatalities have been recorded in the United States thus far. While the incidents of hospitalization and ICU care in those aged 20 to 44 are significantly higher than those under age 19, incidents of mortality are still very low compared to those 45 and older.
Table 2: Severe Outcomes Among U.S. Patients with COVID-19 — Feb. 12 – March 16, 2020
Screen-Shot-2020-03-24-at-5.16.26-PM.png

This data shows that although there is clearly a risk associated with having younger people exposed to COVID-19, it is a risk many people might rationally decide to take. Under mitigation alone, millions of Americans will be infected with the Wuhan coronavirus one way or another. There may be considerable value in keeping careful track of who has and has not had COVID-19, and allowing people at low risk to decide whether, when, where, and how they contract the disease.
How Would CVI Work?
The basic principles are simple:
  • Otherwise-healthy young people who have not yet contracted COVID-19 can enroll in the CVI program at a designated “safe infection” site.
  • After being medically screened, participants are actively exposed to the mildest form of COVID-19 virus available. They are then housed under quarantine in an appropriate CVI facility. The facility could be as small as one’s home or as large as a hotel or cruise ship. (Given the recent example of spring break 2020 for college students in Florida, one could imagine CVI even becoming a social activity.)
  • All participants are then regularly screened for the presence of an active COVID-19 infection and medically monitored during their illness. Patients who experience serious medical complications would be evacuated to an acute care facility. Once a patient reliably tests negative for an active infection, he or she receives a certified clean bill of immunity (CCBI) and is allowed to re-enter the community.
  • A critical component of this program is widespread testing of the general population to determine exactly who has and has not already become immune to coronavirus. Those who have previously been infected and developed immunity would also be given a certified clean bill of immunity.
The potential benefits of a successful CVI program are considerable:
  • For the first time, we would have a handle on exactly who in the population has been infected with the virus that causes COVID-19, and their immune status;
  • Those given a CCBI could move freely, work anywhere, and be freed from social distancing. They could help treat patients, care for vulnerable populations, and keep the economy functioning when mitigation measures force others into isolation. They could also return to other normal aspects of life that those in self-imposed isolation can only dream of — freely visiting sick and elderly relatives, attending school, working in groups, and going to movies, pubs, and restaurants without fear;
  • CVI could rapidly and dramatically increase overall immunity, maybe even allowing us to achieve a level of herd immunity before an effective vaccine becomes available;
  • Economic activity would recover far faster and at a lower cost than would otherwise be possible — all while better protecting vulnerable people.
Math tells us how many people need to be exposed to an illness or vaccine before herd immunity develops in the community. Crunching data from the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London implies that based on the Wuhan virus’s reproduction number, we can achieve herd immunity by immunizing somewhere between 33.3 to 71.4 percent of the population, with an averaged guess of 61.5 percent. Given the age demographic breakdown of the population, there is a good chance a safe and responsible CVI could get us close to herd immunity months before a vaccine makes 100 percent immunization possible.
The Possibilities Are Endless
The potential limitations of selective infection fall into two main categories. The first is scientific. Can we produce large numbers of reliable tests that will allow us to document individual virus immunity? The answer will be “yes.” Considerable progress has already been made toward this goal.
How persistent and reliable is the immunity that develops? Does immunity to one strain of the virus confer immunity on other known strains? Is it possible for patients who have recovered from COVID-19 to be re-infected? What is the most efficient way to safely set up and operate CVI venues? These questions should all be answerable within a relatively short period of time.
The second category is social. Does a society like ours allow people the freedom to participate in CVI programs? How do we deal with potential liability issues? Will we allow parents to make these sorts of infection decisions for both themselves and their children? Are there people who should not be allowed to participate because of age or pre-existing conditions?
If people are willing to risk deliberate infection for the sake of themselves and the greater good, should the government, and therefore taxpayers, cover any medical and hospitalization costs they may incur in the process? It is quite possible the answers to such questions might differ in various countries or even parts of a given country. Fortunately the CVI approach is amenable to implementation on any level, from communities to cities, regions, or an entire nation.
This type of controlled infection program would be unprecedented, but so is a disease with the unique clinical characteristics of COVID-19. Unfortunately, the status quo itself is hardly a safe, certain, or risk-free course of action. If the Wuhan virus pandemic is the moral and medical equivalent of war, this is exactly the sort of crash project that could save the day for millions of Americans, jobs, and future generations who will bear much of the cost of this disease.

Douglas Perednia is a physician in Portland, Oregon. He is the author of "Overhauling America’s Healthcare Machine."

posted for fair use
 

coalcracker

Veteran Member
Dang. I'm 56 and on Ramipril. Does anyone know if the dosage matters? I think mine is pretty low. Wonder if I should just stop taking it. Or is it too late?

I would not go cold turkey and just stop taking it, but if you have the home machine to monitor your BP numbers (not expensive), and if you started to wean off the ace inhibitor bit by bit while constantly monitoring BP.....

well, I'm not a medical guy, and I would never give anyone medical advice other than consult with your doctor....

but maybe there is a dosage that would keep BP down (a pill every 2 or 3 days?) and not overly raise the complications from virus risk? (which we are not even sure about, but data suggests a correlation).

No health professionals would ever tell us to do this, of course.

Just pondering possibilities. None of this is advice. My doctorate is not in medicine. Nor is it in anything else. :)
 

Mixin

Veteran Member
Yes, it is a calcium channel blocker. My PCP denied my request for a 'hold in reserve' Z-pack, but I explained my reasoning for why I didn't want certain kinds of BP meds, and she agreed.
Thanks. That's good to know. I take a CCB, too but I haven't talked to my dr yet about it.
 
Los Angeles County Sheriff suspends efforts to close gun stores

Sheriff’s deputies in Los Angeles county are not forcing gun stores to close and “efforts to close non-essential businesses have been suspended,” according to a tweet from LASD Sheriff Alex Villanueva.

The department is requesting voluntary compliance with the public.

“CA Gov. Gavin Newsom to determine what qualifies as a non-essential business,” continued Sheriff Villanueva’s tweet.

Last week, he said buying guns in this climate is a bad idea and encouraged current gun owners to lock up their weapons properly.
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20Gauge

TB Fanatic
My Q to DoD Acquisition Chief: "Joint Chiefs on Feb 1 warned a pandemic was coming, what did you do to begin stockpiling masks, [PPE,] and ventilators at that time, can you take us back to when you started and why there isn't a greater stockpile in the U.S. military right now?"
We were too busy selling our stocks to place an order for PPE for the troops.... sorry about that.... very busy we were..... the good news is that we have enough for us as leadership...
 
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