CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

briches

Veteran Member
I have acquaintances that were teacher missionaries in China. They just got to the US last night. They report they were just notified that schools are closed until at least March 2 (from Feb 17 before).
They were out of China vacationing (forget where) when it all hit -
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Job #1 of a government (any government) is to prevent alarm in the civil population and to maintain the illusion that it is in control of any situation. Communist, Oligarchy, Monarchy or Constitutional Republic it matters not. On this one issue they are all the same. Our government will do no differently .

Exactly. Everything you see is first panic control, and second infection control.
 

Tarryn

Senior Member
https://amp.scmp.com/news/asia/east-asia/article/3049091/coronavirus-south-korea-confirms-two-new-cases-including-man

Coronavirus cases in South Korea and Malaysia linked to Singapore meeting spark WHO investigation
  • A Malaysian and South Korean were infected after going to a conference in Singapore, which included guests from China and Wuhan
  • The source of their infections has not been identified
Coronavirus cases in South Korea and Malaysia tied to a business meeting in Singapore attended by visitors from China have prompted an investigation into the infection’s international spread.


A 41-year-old man in Malaysia and a 38-year-old man in South Korea were infected with the so-called 2019-nCoV virus after attending a meeting at a Singapore hotel in the third week of January, health authorities said.


The World Health Organisation (WHO) is coordinating with Singapore’s Ministry of Health in relation to the event, said Olivia Lawe Davies, the agency’s Manila-based regional communications manager.


“Based on current information, there is no evidence of effective and sustained community transmission,” Lawe Davies said in an email on Wednesday. “As countries are stepping up surveillance, the detection of more cases of local transmission can be expected.”

Health authorities are looking for so-called super-spreader events reminiscent of the Sars outbreak 17 years ago, when an infected doctor from Guangdong transmitted the virus in a Hong Kong hotel to numerous guests, who then carried the germ to cities including Toronto, Hanoi and Singapore.

The event in Singapore has been tied to only the confirmed coronavirus cases in South Korea and Malaysia, and the source of their infections has not been identified.

The infected Malaysian man had travelled to Singapore from January 16 to 23 for a meeting with colleagues from China – including one from Wuhan, the epicentre of the epidemic. But he only showed symptoms on January 29, nearly a week after he returned to Malaysia, health authorities there said.

The luxury hotel, located off Singapore’s Orchard Road shopping strip, has not been advised on how, where and when the Malaysian man was infected, and the hotel was not aware of any other confirmed or suspected cases among the hotel’s guests or colleagues, it said in a statement Wednesday.

The hotel, which says it has 677 guestrooms and suites, has implemented “deep-cleaning measures” in public areas, restaurants, meeting spaces and guestrooms, and has shared a comprehensive guide about the coronavirus with Hyatt hotels globally on procedures to protect against transmission of the virus, according to the statement.
Singapore’s Ministry of Health said it was investigating the case and trying to identify individuals who had close contact with him.

“The particular risk exposure was quite some time ago,” Kenneth Mak, the city state’s director of medical services, told reporters on Tuesday. “There is a possibility that many of the people that took part in this particular meeting may not be in Singapore any more.”


The 38-year-old South Korean man was confirmed as South Korea’s 17th case on Wednesday.

People seen at South Korea’s Incheon International Airport in protective face masks on January 3, 2020. File photo: Reuters



East Asia
Coronavirus cases in South Korea and Malaysia linked to Singapore meeting spark WHO investigation
  • A Malaysian and South Korean were infected after going to a conference in Singapore, which included guests from China and Wuhan
  • The source of their infections has not been identified
Topic | Coronavirus outbreak


Bloomberg
Park Chan-kyong
Published: 11:26am, 5 Feb, 2020
Updated: 5:13pm, 5 Feb, 2020

Coronavirus cases in South Korea and Malaysia tied to a business meeting in Singapore attended by visitors from China have prompted an investigation into the infection’s international spread.

A 41-year-old man in Malaysia and a 38-year-old man in South Korea were infected with the so-called 2019-nCoV virus after attending a meeting at a Singapore hotel in the third week of January, health authorities said.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) is coordinating with Singapore’s Ministry of Health in relation to the event, said Olivia Lawe Davies, the agency’s Manila-based regional communications manager.

“Based on current information, there is no evidence of effective and sustained community transmission,” Lawe Davies said in an email on Wednesday. “As countries are stepping up surveillance, the detection of more cases of local transmission can be expected.”

iframe_placeholder.png

Health authorities are looking for so-called super-spreader events reminiscent of the Sars outbreak 17 years ago, when an infected doctor from Guangdong transmitted the virus in a Hong Kong hotel to numerous guests, who then carried the germ to cities including Toronto, Hanoi and Singapore.

The event in Singapore has been tied to only the confirmed coronavirus cases in South Korea and Malaysia, and the source of their infections has not been identified.

Girl in Malaysia recovers from coronavirus, family can return to China4 Feb 2020

The infected Malaysian man had travelled to Singapore from January 16 to 23 for a meeting with colleagues from China – including one from Wuhan, the epicentre of the epidemic. But he only showed symptoms on January 29, nearly a week after he returned to Malaysia, health authorities there said.
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The luxury hotel, located off Singapore’s Orchard Road shopping strip, has not been advised on how, where and when the Malaysian man was infected, and the hotel was not aware of any other confirmed or suspected cases among the hotel’s guests or colleagues, it said in a statement Wednesday.
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The hotel, which says it has 677 guestrooms and suites, has implemented “deep-cleaning measures” in public areas, restaurants, meeting spaces and guestrooms, and has shared a comprehensive guide about the coronavirus with Hyatt hotels globally on procedures to protect against transmission of the virus, according to the statement.

Customers seen wearing protective masks walk at a shopping centre in Singapore on January 30, 2020. Photo: EPA-EFE
Customers seen wearing protective masks walk at a shopping centre in Singapore on January 30, 2020. Photo: EPA-EFE


Singapore’s Ministry of Health said it was investigating the case and trying to identify individuals who had close contact with him.

“The particular risk exposure was quite some time ago,” Kenneth Mak, the city state’s director of medical services, told reporters on Tuesday. “There is a possibility that many of the people that took part in this particular meeting may not be in Singapore any more.”

The 38-year-old South Korean man was confirmed as South Korea’s 17th case on Wednesday.
5 coronavirus cases traced to Chinese department store. Who was the carrier?4 Feb 2020

He had contracted the disease from the Malaysian man when he attended the same meeting in Singapore from January 18-24, the Korea Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) said.

“After returning from the conference, the 17th patient was later told that there had been a confirmed patient, a Malaysian, among the participants of the event,” the KCDC said in a statement. “He then visited a clinic on Tuesday for a test.”

Singapore reported its first local transmission of the virus on Tuesday, with four cases that involved human-to-human transmission in the city, bringing the total number of reported cases to 24.

The infections have cast a shadow over the city’s conference and exhibitions industry, a major contributor to the economy.
On Wednesday, South Korea also announced its 18th case of the virus. She is the 21-year-old daughter of a woman who was diagnosed with the coronavirus two weeks after returning from a Thailand trip, becoming the country’s 16th patient.


The 42-year-old mother is suspected to have infected her daughter at a clinic in the southern city of Gwangju, 330km south of Seoul. Those who have been in contact with her at the facility, including medical staff, have been placed in quarantine.


The KCDC said it was now conducting contact tracing of all the country’s confirmed cases, amid growing concerns over further human transmission.


The agency said earlier that it had quarantined 129 people to test for the coronavirus.
 

Virtualco

Panic Early - Panic Often
You're correct. I'm reconsidering my vacation plans. :)
I agree bw, will reconsider my week of vacationing in Branson, MO end of May (grew up in SPFLD) and Alexandria, VA end of September (one DD there) because of flying and time frame.

I have a four day stay (5.5 hour drive to Fleming Island, FL) at the end of February that is locked in. (If any outbreaks in Jacksonville which in just north of Fleming Island, will cancel that trip)

A school in my home '20 closed down for several days because of the seasonal flu as teacher/students sick and to prevent further spread. A commercial haz-mat team is in school cleaning it up for their return.

Not freaking out, just keeping my 'eyeballs peeled'.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
We have some high-attendance events in my area. I think one at the end of this month will go on ok, but I'll avoid the crowd. I suspect the one at the end of June will be canceled.
 

GammaRat

Veteran Member
Throwing the filters into my dryer will add a charge.....
I agree bw, will reconsider my week of vacationing in Branson, MO end of May (grew up in SPFLD) and Alexandria, VA end of September (one DD there) because of flying and time frame.

I have a four day stay (5.5 hour drive to Fleming Island, FL) at the end of February that is locked in. (If any outbreaks in Jacksonville which in just north of Fleming Island, will cancel that trip)

A school in my home '20 closed down for several days because of the seasonal flu as teacher/students sick and to prevent further spread. A commercial haz-mat team is in school cleaning it up for their return.

Not freaking out, just keeping my 'eyeballs peeled'.

Do you have a layover in a "hub airport"?

I heard there are still 20 planes flying into DFW from China every day. I personally wouldn't step foot in DFW airport.
 

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The WARS Virus is pandemic in China and has the potential to be pandemic across the world....

We have to be aware of what is happening in China and around China and extrapolate for what could happen in America and plan accordingly....

From indications, we have a limited time to get it together while we can....

God help us.

Texican....
I am going to be watching and extrapolating from what happens in Germany, which is a first world country that doesn't have open latrines And does have hand washing, rather than what's going on in China.
 

coalcracker

Veteran Member
Note to self: Definitely want a balcony cabin.

Agreed.

Metaphorically, on the good ship, "America," the balcony cabins are the locations away from the population centers (glad I booked one of those!) ... and since we are not confined to our rooms yet, we can still make food runs while the others are partying in the bars and casinos. Our vacation is over, but only some realize it at this point...
 

2DEES

Inactive
Found this today at promed vol92 issue 14by Dr. Tuitet and Dr. Fisman. It is an interactive tool @ https:/art-bd.shinyapps.io/nCov_control/.



Reporting, epidemic growth, and reproduction numbers for the 2019-nCoV epidemic: understanding control
Move these sliders to see how the outbreak trajectory changes. There are many parameter combinations that create plausible epidemic curves. We regard well-calibrated curves as those that pass through the two green squares, which are case estimates generated through observation of exported case numbers before wide-scale travel restrictions came into effect.

Plot cases on a log scale

Serial interval (days)


Outbreak start date


Control start date


Initial number of cases


Basic reproductive number


Effective reproductive number with control


1580910613040.png
Notes
Cumulative cases (model estimates) represent outbreak size estimated using data on international case exportations [Imai et al.].

Cumulative cases (reported) are based on publicly-available data [BNO News].

The default values for the serial interval and basic reproduction number are from an analysis of the early transmission dynamics of the outbreak in Wuhan, published by Li et al.

Control measures were assumed to start on January 24th, the date of quarantine of Wuhan and surrounding cities [Wu et al.].

Genomic analysis indicates that the initial human infection occurred in Nov-Dec 2019, followed by sustained human-to-human transmission [Bedford et al.].

We provide the option of seeding the epidemic with more than one initial case, as might be seen with a point source outbreak as the initial cause of animal-to-human spill-over.

Developed by Ashleigh Tuite and David Fisman, Dalla Lana School of Public Health, University of Toronto

If your good with numbers and like to fiddle might be informative.
 

Capt. Eddie

Veteran Member
Camp Ashland NE to be quarantine base for 70 people who may have contacted coronavirus... heard this first thing this morning on KFAB out of Omaha.


Don't know how to insert web page the new fancy way.

Camp Ashland to hold 70 people as coronavirus quarantine site

By 1011 NOW |
Posted: Tue 3:26 PM, Feb 04, 2020 |
Updated: Tue 10:42 PM, Feb 04, 2020
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70 people will be held in coronavirus quarantine at Camp Ashland.
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Camp Ashland will be a coronavirus quarantine site for 70 people
According to the Ashland Fire Chief Mke Meyer, 70 people and 70 EMS workers will be taken to Camp Ashland in the "very near future".

The chief also said one ambulance from Midwest Medical will be at the site.

Earlier on Tuesday, 1011 NOW was told Camp Ashland could serve as a quarantine location for Americans who may have contracted the coronavirus while visiting China.

According to a release from the Nebraska National Guard, the Department of Health and Human Services and UNMC representatives visited Camp Ashland Sunday and Monday to assess the site as a possible location for Americans returning from China to be housed during a quarantine period.

These buildings were untouched by the flood last March due to their elevated design.

According to the release, the quarantined individuals will be in separate areas from military personnel for the duration of their stay and monitored regularly by medical professionals for any signs of illness.


"The health and safety of our Soldiers and Airmen, as well as our families and neighbors, is always our greatest priority," a spokesperson said in the release.

Camp Ashland is one of several sites that were identified as possible quarantine sites for those exposed to coronavirus. Other sites that have been identified by the Department of Defense include the 168th Regiment, Regional Training Institute in Fort Carson, Colorado; Travis Air Force Base, California; Lackland Air Force Base, Texas; and Marine Corps Air Station Miramar, California.

The State Department says more evacuation flights for private U.S. citizens may be leaving Wuhan's International Airport on Thursday.
The citizens need to have a valid passport and the evacuees need to reimburse the government for their portion of the flight.

ETA: Just F'ing wonderful. First they bring Omaha ebola, now this. I guess the breadbasket of the entire country is a good place to quarantine people, unless of course the rest of the country likes to eat.
 

GammaRat

Veteran Member
Here are some personal observations on the "Reported Statistics".

I've been monitoring the virus since the 23rd.

On 1/24 there were:

Confirmed cases: 1287
Recovered cases: 38
Fatal cases: 41

This means there were a little over 1200 active cases at the time.

If you allow those cases 12 days to "run their course", the people who were infected on the 24th have either recovered or died.

Let's look at the statistics release today.

Confirmed cases: 24,363
Recovered cases: 892
Fatal cases: 491

892 + 491 = 1383

1383 "should" account for the majority of the cases that were active on 1/24. There may be a few stragglers that are fighting the virus, but the majority of those infections have run their course.

Of those cases....

35% DIED!

That's much higher than the 3% mortality rate that has been discussed in the past.
 

Virtualco

Panic Early - Panic Often
Throwing the filters into my dryer will add a charge.....


Do you have a layover in a "hub airport"?

I heard there are still 20 planes flying into DFW from China every day. I personally wouldn't step foot in DFW airport.
No hubs, both non-stop into SGF and DCA. I love riding the Metro in Alexandria/DC however it's another caution to consider.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Marsh I don't know the answers to your questions. If this thing takes off in the US it's not going to be fun. IMO the homeless in LA and San Fran are in the cross hairs of this virus and the rest of us are not far behind. Homelessness is not limited to major west coast cities. It is a country wide problem.

We not only have the census coming up, we have the primaries to deal with as well. Are they going to close the schools? What are they going to do with school children? Especially those belonging to single working parents? What about day care facilities? How are the critical industries, infrastructure (power, water, sewage, transportation), the financial sector going to find coverage for massive numbers of sick employees? Then there's the military...? First responders?
As I've mentioned before, the school kids and workers are going to be a huge problem, most Americans don't know this but the official AFDC Federal Regulations (at least when I worked there and I haven't seen that it has changed) consider "school" to be "child care" for single parents.

Depending on where, when and the local State situation; AFDC used to consider age 9, the age when children could be "home-alone" after schools even though at the same time Middle-Class parents that tried this could be accused of child abuse and having their kids taken away (circa the early 1990s).

Once the schools are shut down, parents will either have to stay home and/or take their kids to work (and I saw that happen during school shutdowns in the 1980s and the 1990s in the US). In a middle-class office, you can sometimes stash the kids in a conference room with some coloring books but that doesn't work in a factory, food service or Amazon warehouse type of job.

Nightwolf pointed out that once the power and water go off - in China or the US, people in cities will start having to use "thunder mugs" for bathrooms and eventually they are likely to return to the ancient practice of yelling "Gardi Loo" (in whatever language, that's in Scot's English) and dump them out the windows.

Most modern streets, even in third world countries, no longer have the unhygienic open gutters that at least allowed such waste to be carried away when it rained.

Hopefully, things won't get to this point outside of China but as Nightwolf said, for example, if it hits Ireland or your State, there is likely to be a gap between everyone is ordered to stay indoors and workers are still expected to attend to their jobs and kids go to school.

He said THAT is the REALLY DANGEROUS period and everyone should re-read Blizzard's excellent protocols for decontaminating everyone as soon as they are home, which works as long as you've got power and water to do laundry.
 
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Swamp Wallaby

International Observer
Haven't seen this article here before. It covers what I also think are the two most likely situations if this virus becomes endemic, something that is looking more likely. In a nutshell, we'll either have another aetiological agent for the common cold (similar to several existing human coronaviruses) or we'll have something similar to (and on top of) seasonal 'flu, with a similar spectrum of potential for complications depending on how the virus mutates from year to year. Mind you, we ain't got anything like hard facts yet, so all outcomes are still possible.

Experts envision two scenarios if the new coronavirus isn’t contained
By Sharon Begley2 @sxbegle3

February 4, 2020

crowd of people
Adobe
With the new coronavirus4 spreading from person to person (possibly including from people without symptoms), reaching four continents, and traveling faster than SARS, driving it out of existence is looking increasingly unlikely.

It’s still possible that quarantines and travel bans will first halt the outbreak and then eradicate the microbe, and the world will never see 2019-nCoV5 again, as epidemiologist Dr. Mike Ryan, head of health emergencies at the World Health Organization, told6 STAT on Saturday. That’s what happened with SARS in 2003.

Many experts, however, view that happy outcome as increasingly unlikely. “Independent self-sustaining outbreaks [of 2019-nCoV] in major cities globally could become inevitable because of substantial exportation of pre-symptomatic cases,” scientists at the University of Hong Kong concluded in a paper7 published in The Lancet last week.

Researchers are therefore asking what seems like a defeatist question but whose answer has huge implications for public policy: What will a world with endemic 2019-nCoV — circulating permanently in the human population — be like?

“It’s not too soon to talk about this,” said Dr. Amesh Adalja, an infectious disease specialist at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. “We know that respiratory viruses are especially difficult to control, so I think it’s very possible that the current outbreak ends with the virus becoming endemic.”

Experts see two possibilities, each with unique consequences:

Just another coronavirus
2019-nCoV joins the four coronaviruses now circulating in people. “I can imagine a scenario where this becomes a fifth endemic human coronavirus,” said Stephen Morse of Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health, an epidemiologist and expert on emerging infectious diseases. “We don’t pay much attention to them because they’re so mundane,” especially compared to seasonal flu.

Although little-known outside health care and virology circles, the current four “are already part of the winter-spring seasonal landscape of respiratory disease,” Adalja said. Two of them, OC43 and 229E, were discovered9 in the 1960s but had circulated in cows and bats, respectively, for centuries. The others, HKU1 and NL63, were discovered9 after the 2003-2004 SARS outbreak, also after circulating in animals. It’s not known how long they’d existed in people before scientists noticed, but since they jumped from animals to people before the era of virology, it isn’t known whether that initial jump triggered widespread disease.

OC43 and 229E are more prevalent than other endemic human coronaviruses, especially10 in children and the elderly. Together, the four are responsible for an estimated one-quarter of all colds. “For the most part they cause common-cold-type symptoms,” said Richard Webby, an influenza expert at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital. “Maybe that is the most likely end scenario if this thing becomes entrenched.”

All four, in particular HKU1, can cause pneumonia, and sometimes death. It is rare enough that researchers do not have good estimates of its prevalence or virulence, but two of the others have been better studied. In one of the few close looks at OC43 and 229E, researchers measured13 their infection rates during four winters (1999-2003) in Rochester, N.Y., among 2,897 healthy outpatients, adults with cardiopulmonary disease, and patients hospitalized with acute respiratory illnesses.

They identified 398 coronavirus infections (four people had both OC43 or 229E). Infection rates ran from 0.5% among healthy elderly adults to 15% among healthy young adults (where “healthy” means they had no viral symptoms), with the highest rates coming in the winter of 2000-2001, for no obvious reason — suggesting that coronavirus infection rates will rise and fall unpredictably, much like seasonal flu, and that its consequences will also be similar: some serious illness, some mild, and a lot of asymptomatic infections.

The most common symptoms were runny nose, cough, and congestion, for about 10 days; no one even ran a fever. All told, 35% of infections with 229E and 18% with OC43 were asymptomatic. “Asymptomatic infection … [meaning] without respiratory symptoms was fairly common,” the authors concluded.

But sometimes symptoms were nothing to sneeze at. There were 96 coronavirus infections among the 1,388 hospitalized patients. OC43 caused more severe disease than 229E, requiring intensive care for 15% of those infected. About one-third of the patients admitted to the hospital with either coronavirus developed pneumonia; one of the 229E patients and two of the OC43 patients died.

On the bright side, if a coronavirus infects enough people regularly there will be greater business incentive to develop a vaccine and other countermeasures. That never happened with SARS because it died out, leaving no market for such products.

On the decidedly darker side, a fifth endemic coronavirus means more sickness and death from respiratory infections.

Odds: Moderate. “I think there is a reasonable probability that this becomes the fifth community-acquired coronavirus,” Adalja said, something he expanded on in his blog14. Webby agreed: “I have a little bit of hope that, OK, we’ll put up with a couple of years of heightened [2019-nCoV] activity before settling down to something like the other four coronaviruses.”

2019-nCoV returns repeatedly like seasonal flu
The “seasonal” reflects the fact that viruses can’t tolerate high heat and humidity, preferring the cool and dry conditions of winter and spring, Webby said. That’s why flu, as well as the four coronaviruses, are less prevalent in warm, humid months. If the new coronavirus follows suit, then containment efforts plus the arrival of summer should drive infections to near zero.

But also like flu viruses, that doesn’t mean it’s gone.

The “bad” reflects the fact that the number of 2019-nCoV cases and deaths so far suggests that the new coronavirus has a fatality rate around 2%. That’s almost certainly an overestimate, since mild cases aren’t all being counted15. But even 2% is less than SARS’ 10%16 and nowhere near the 37%17 of MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus). On the other hand, seasonal flu kills fewer than 0.1% of those it infects, though that’s still tens of thousands of deaths a year just in the U.S. The global disaster that was the 1917 “Spanish flu” pandemic killed 2.5%18.

“One scenario is that we go through a pandemic,” as the current outbreak may become, said Columbia’s Morse. “Then, depending what the virus does, it could quite possibly settle down into a respiratory illness that comes back seasonally.”

The toll that would take depends on how many people it infects and how virulent it is. Virulence reflects the viruses’ genetics.

The genome of the novel coronavirus consists of a single stand of RNA. Microbes with that kind of genome mutate “notoriously quickly,” said biologist Michael Farzan of Scripps Research, who in 2005 was part of the team that identified19 the structure of the “spike protein” by which SARS enters human cells.

But SARS has a molecular proofreading system that reduces its mutation rate, and the new coronavirus’s similarity to SARS at the genomic level suggests it does, too. “That makes the mutation rate much, much lower than for flu or HIV,” Farzan said. That lowers the chance that the virus will evolve in some catastrophic way to, say, become significantly more lethal.

The coronavirus “may not change [genetically] at all” in a way that alters function, said biologist Andrew Rambaut of the University of Edinburgh, who has been analyzing the genomes of the 2019-nCoV’s from dozens of patients. “It is transmitting quite well already so it may not have to ‘evolve’ to be endemic.”

Any evolution that does take place in an endemic coronavirus, including one that spikes seasonally, might well be toward less virulence. “It doesn’t want to kill you before you transmit it,” Farzan said. “One would therefore expect a slow attenuation” of virulence if the virus becomes like seasonal flu. Dead people don’t transmit viruses, “and even people sitting in their beds and shivering” because they are seriously ill “don’t transmit that well,” he said.

The toll of a seasonal-flu-like coronavirus also depends on immunity — which is also scientifically uncertain. Exposure to the four endemic coronaviruses produces immunity that lasts longer than that to influenza, Webby said, but not permanent immunity. Like respiratory syncytial virus, which can re-infect adults who had it in childhood, coronavirus immunity wanes.

“Everyone, by the time they reach adulthood, should have some immunity to some coronavirus,” said Tim Sheahan, a coronavirus researcher at University of North Carolina’s Gillings School of Global Public Health. But because it doesn’t last, older people can get reinfected. The elderly also have a higher death rate from coronaviruses such as SARS and MERS, a pattern 2019-nCoV is following.

“There is some evidence that people can be reinfected with the four coronaviruses and that there is no long-lasting immunity,” Dr. Susan Kline, an infectious disease specialist at of the University of Minnesota. “Like rhinoviruses [which cause the common cold], you could be infected multiple times over your life. You can mount an antibody response, but it wanes, so on subsequent exposure you don’t have protection.” Subsequent infections often produce milder illness, however.

The common-cold-causing coronaviruses are different enough that an infection from one won’t produce immunity to another. But the novel coronavirus overlaps enough with SARS that survivors of the 2002-3003 outbreak might have some immunity to the new arrival, Sheahan said: “Is it enough to prevent infection? I don’t know.”

How widespread even limited immunity would be, and therefore how many people would become ill from the next go-round of 2019-nCoV, also “depends on how many people get infected the first time around,” Webby said. That number is certainly higher than the more than 20,000 identified cases, since people with no or mild symptoms escape the attention of health care systems.

Since 2019-nCoV is new, “this first wave will be particularly bad because we have an immunologically naïve population,” Adalja said. Future waves should pass by people who were exposed (but not necessarily sickened) this time around, Morse said, “but that assumes this virus doesn’t develop the tricks of flu,” which famously tweaks the surface molecules that the immune system can see, making itself invisible to antibodies from previous exposures.

Odds: Pretty good. What we may be seeing “is the emergence of a new coronavirus … that could very well become another seasonal pathogen that causes pneumonia,” said infectious disease expert Michael Osterholm of the University of Minnesota. It would be “more than a cold” and less than SARS: “The only other pathogen I can compare it to is seasonal influenza.”

Helen Branswell and Andrew Joseph contributed reporting.
Experts envision two scenarios if new coronavirus isn't contained - STAT
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Just for conspiracy theory purposes:

coronavirus%20cases%20feb%204.jpg


Did China's Tencent Accidentally Leak The True Terrifying Coronavirus Statistics

www.zerohedge.com
3 mins read
Ten days ago, shortly after China first started reporting the cases and deaths associated with the coronavirus epidemic, a UK researcher predicted that over 250,000 Chinese would be infected with the virus by February 4. And while according to official Chinese data, the number of infections has indeed soared in the past two weeks, at just under 25,000 (and roughly 500 deaths), it is a far cry from this dismal prediction, about ten times below that predicted by the epidemiologists.

Is this discrepancy possible? Is the epidemic truly far less serious than conventional epidemiological models predicted? Or is China merely hiding the full extent of the problem?
After all, it the WSJ itself reported in late January , China was explicitly manipulating the casualty number by listing pneumonia as the cause of death instead of coronavirus. Subsequent reports that Wuhan officials were rushing to cremate coronavirus casualties before they could be counted did not add to the credibility of the official data.
But the biggest hit to the narrative and China's officially reported epidemic numbers came overnight, when a slip up in China's TenCent may have revealed the true extent of the coronavirus epidemic on the mainland. And it is nothing short than terrifying.
As the Taiwan Times reports in a report first spotted by user @TheHKGroup, over the weekend, Tencent "seems to have inadvertently released what is potentially the actual number of infections and deaths, which were astronomically higher than official figures", and were far closer to the catastrophic epidemic projections made by Jonathan Read.
According to the report, late on Saturday evening, Tencent, on its webpage titled "Epidemic Situation Tracker", showed confirmed cases of novel coronavirus (2019nCoV) in China as standing at 154,023, 10 times the official figure at the time. It listed the number of suspected cases as 79,808, four times the official figure.
And while the number of cured cases was only 269, well below the official number that day of 300, most ominously, the death toll listed was 24,589, vastly higher than the 300 officially listed that day.
Moments later, Tencent updated the numbers to reflect the government's "official" numbers that day.
This was not the first time Tencent has done this: as Taiwan Times notes, Chinese netizens have noticed that Tencent has on at least three occasions posted extremely high numbers, only to quickly lower them to government-approved statistics.
This is where it gets even more bizarre: contrary to claiming that this was just a "fat finger" mistyping of data, observant Chinese netizens also noticed that each time the screen with the large numbers appears, it shows a comparison with the previous day's data which demonstrates a "reasonable" incremental increase, much like comparisons of official numbers.
This led many in the mainland to speculate that Tencent has two sets of data, the real data and "processed" data.
In short, two camps have emerged: one, the more optimistic, speculates that a coding problem could be causing the real "internal" data to accidentally appear. The other, far more pessimistically inclined, believes that someone behind the scenes is trying to leak the real numbers, as "the "internal" data held by Beijing may not reflect the true extent of the epidemic."
Indeed, as repeatedly pointed out here and according to multiple sources in Wuhan, many coronavirus patients are unable to receive treatment and die outside of hospitals. Furthermore, a severe shortage of test kits also leads to a lower number of diagnosed cases of infection and death. In addition, there have been many reports of doctors being ordered to list other forms of death instead of coronavirus to keep the death toll artificially low.
What is the truth?
We leave it up to readers, but keep this in mind: on Jan 29, Zeng Guang, the chief scientist of epidemiology at China’s CDC, made a rare candid admission about why Chinese officials cannot tell people the truth in an interview with the state-run tabloid Global Times: "The officials need to think about the political angle and social stability in order to keep their positions."
And then, on Monday, none other than China Xi's called on all officials to quickly work together to contain the Coronavirus at a rare meeting of top leaders, saying the outcome would "directly impact social stability in the country."
Well, if China is mostly concerned about social stability - as it should be for a nation of 1.4 billion - it is easy to comprehend why the entire political apparatus in China would be geared to presenting numbers which seem somewhat credible - in light of the barrage of videos of people dying on the street - but not so terrifying as to cause a countrywide panic.
Then again, if China indeed had over 154,000 cases and almost 25,000 deaths as of 5 days ago, then no attempts to mask the full extent and true severity of the pandemic have any hope of "containing" the truth.

read:Did China's Tencent Accidentally Leak The True Terrifying Coronavirus Statistics
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
Not new news, but a potentially useful overview fwiw.
==============


Monday, February 3, 2020

Coronavirus and the economy


We're beginning to see the impact of China's coronavirus outbreak on markets in that country and around the world. Already we've seen:
  • Shipping rates have plummeted as demand for cargo space decreases;
  • Air freight availability - critical for factories in Europe and America to maintain their "just-in-time" stocking levels of critical parts - is decreasing dramatically as airlines reduce flights to and from China;
  • Many Chinese factories and consumer outlets are closing their doors under the impact of quarantines, public fears, and the unavailability of supplies (even auto manufacturers);
  • Those who rely on jobs at such establishments to earn a living are suddenly finding themselves effectively out of work, even though they're technically still employed. Whether or not their jobs will come back is not known at present - but what are they supposed to do to buy food and other necessities in the meantime? There are no other jobs available, and even if they have money, many of the shops where they buy supplies have closed their doors as a health measure.

This has serious implications for the US and European economies. Many of our products, even though made locally, contain imported components. Without the latter, they can't be produced, which means many of our factories are also likely to be idled. It takes time (and, often, a lot of money) to set up alternative sources for those components, and until that's done, the plants relying on them will remain shuttered. That impacts workers in those factories, the air freight and rail and truck companies that take goods to and from them, the shops and vendors that sell what they produce . . . the whole schmear.

The coronavirus epidemic is still in its early days. I hope and pray we can get a handle on it quickly, and reduce its threat to manageable levels. If we can't, the odds of it becoming a "black swan event" that damages the global economy are getting shorter by the day.

Meanwhile, I urge my readers to follow the common-sense suggestions (2 links) made by Aesop and others who know what they're talking about. This epidemic is inconvenient, and may be dangerous to those whose health is already impaired, but for most of us it isn't something life-threatening unless we're stupid. In particular, try to have enough basic supplies to quarantine yourself at home for a few weeks if necessary. It may be boring and unproductive, but it remains a perfectly viable self-defense mechanism against disease. If you aren't where you can catch it, you won't get it. Q.E.D.

Peter


Posted by Peter at 2/03/2020 09:14:00 AM

the advice at the end was no where near enough alarmist!

IF the economy implodes? That seems even more assured than the pandemic ripping through every country in the world. Prepare for a couple of weeks? That is too weak of a prediction imho.
might be MUCH longer than that. As difficult as our normalcy biases struggle to cope with predictions of quarantines and economic collapse, now imagine if kosmic Justice adds in some hurricanes, volcanos, earthquakes, blizzards, and crop failures for good measure...
or even just Helen’s “tech stop”. No news is usually good news. If all organs of communication cease, I can easily see a massive national psychological collapse for 3/4 of the nation in less than a week without “nightly news” and “the view”.
 

Swamp Wallaby

International Observer
Hopefully, things won't get to this point outside of China but as Nightwolf said, for example, if it hits Ireland or your State, there is likely to be a gap between everyone is ordered to stay indoors and workers are still expected to attend to their jobs and kids go to school.

He said THAT is the REALLY DANGEROUS period and everyone should re-read Blizzard's excellent protocols for decontaminating everyone as soon as they are home, which works as long as you've got power and water to do laundry.

Well said.

Government pandemic flu plans may give people an idea of how likely it is that various control measures may be implemented, and when. The Australian one (https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/ohp-ahmppi.htm) has a list of potential measures (like self-quarantine, closing schools, closing workplaces and so forth) in the appendices with estimates of how likely they are to slow the spread, how well they might be accepted, how much they'll cost at both primary (individual/household) and secondary (economy) levels, etc., in order to help with decision-making.

However, public opinion is everything to politicians so they're quite likely to implement unnecessary or low-efficacy measures just to be seen to be doing something.
 
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OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB

It Ain't Over Yet... Projecting "Wave 2" And "Wave 3" Of The Coronavirus Pandemic

Tue, 02/04/2020 -


Authored by Charles Hugh Smith via OfTwoMinds blog,
It's too early to declare victory and too early to assume the virus can be completely eradicated in a few weeks on the SARS model.

Many people are already anticipating the end of the coronavirus pandemic and a quick return to "normal life" and renewed global growth. But if we examine the history of previous pandemics and the spread of this contagious virus, we reach a much different conclusion: "Wave 2" and "Wave 3" arising after the initial wave recedes are distinct possibilities.

The corporate media and conventional economists in the U.S. and China's PR machine share a common goal:
reassure consumers in the U.S., China and the rest of the world that everything will return to normal soon and they should continue buying stuff they don't need (5G phones, etc.) with borrowed money.

Meanwhile, authorities in China are tracking down everyone with a Wuhan residency ID card in the hopes that quarantining every one of the tens of thousands of Wuhan residents who traveled before the citywide quarantine took effect will stop the pandemic.

There are two problems with this official assumption that house-arresting everyone from Wuhan will end the pandemic:

1. Given that Wuhan residents traveled freely around China for the month before the citywide quarantine, infecting people in other cities, there is now a pool of carriers who did not come from Wuhan, so quarantining everyone from Wuhan won't stop these people from infecting others.
2. Much of the dirty, poorly paid work in China's cities is done by "illegal migrants" from rural areas who don't have official residency in the city. These people may have lived and worked in Wuhan but do not have Wuhan ID cards. They make up another reservoir of virus carriers who it will be difficult to track down and quarantine via residency permits and ID.

As mentioned previously, many of the hundreds of thousands of Chinese with overseas jobs returned home for New Years and are now anxious to get back to their jobs in other countries. Those without symptoms who are outside locked-down cities are free to find "work-arounds" to exit China by whatever means are available. Some consequential percentage of these people might be asymptomatic carriers of the virus.

As the city-wide quarantines limit the spread of the virus, victory will be declared and the quarantines will be lifted. But since the reservoirs of the virus have not been eliminated, the virus will start spreading again once the quarantines are lifted. This is "Wave 2."
Pandemics tend to decline in summer and then re-emerge in Fall. These renewed pandemics may be even more consequential than the first wave.

If an effective vaccine is developed and billions of doses are made and distributed globally by Fall, then a re-emergence will have been thwarted. But that's a tall order, and there may be areas where the vaccine (assuming one is developed) is not universally distributed.

A re-emergence in Fall would be "Wave 3." Perhaps this wave will be limited to impoverished nations without adequate healthcare systems; perhaps the virus mutates in some unexpected way. It's too early to declare victory and too early to assume the virus can be completely eradicated in a few weeks on the SARS model.


Well, never underestimate Man's capacity fer stupidity... "World finally awakens to th' pandemic, global economy slides inta depression." Seems like that's where we're headed, courtesy o' th' MSM, politicians, an' crooked business men... Correct me, if ya can...

OA
 

beowulf

Contributing Member
Saw something earlier that says 3 Gorges dam is ramping up hydroelectric output to cover the loss of coal power due to coal plants being understaffed, but I cant find it again. Has anyone else seen it?
 

BenIan

Veteran Member
Sitting in Federal bankruptcy court right now. A hearing before mine, debtors are having trouble making payments because husbands job (oil industry) has reduced his income due to Coronavirus outbreak. Judge talked for a few minutes about the virus having an adverse effect on oil industry & oil prices. This area of the country is very oil dependent.

Anecdotal I know, but indicative of mass public awareness of the issue and the looming economic effects that are just over the ken.
 

EMICT

Veteran Member
Here are some personal observations on the "Reported Statistics".

I've been monitoring the virus since the 23rd.

On 1/24 there were:

Confirmed cases: 1287
Recovered cases: 38
Fatal cases: 41

This means there were a little over 1200 active cases at the time.

If you allow those cases 12 days to "run their course", the people who were infected on the 24th have either recovered or died.

Let's look at the statistics release today.

Confirmed cases: 24,363
Recovered cases: 892
Fatal cases: 491

892 + 491 = 1383

1383 "should" account for the majority of the cases that were active on 1/24. There may be a few stragglers that are fighting the virus, but the majority of those infections have run their course.

Of those cases....

35% DIED!

That's much higher than the 3% mortality rate that has been discussed in the past.

I'm trying to find a way to refute this evaluation and I can't come up with anything that counters this summary.
 

1911user

Veteran Member
Gov't unveils new electronic tags for people under Wuhan coronavirus home quarantine | Coconuts Hong Kong

Gov’t unveils new electronic tags for people under Wuhan coronavirus home quarantine
By Coconuts Hong Kong Feb 3, 2020 | 5:27pm Hong Kong time

The government’s chief information officer Victor Lam shows off a new electronic tag that will be given to people under home quarantine as the Wuhan coronavirus fears continue to grip the city. Screengrab via Facebook video/RTHK.
The government’s chief information officer Victor Lam shows off a new electronic tag that will be given to people under home quarantine as the Wuhan coronavirus fears continue to grip the city. Screengrab via Facebook video/RTHK.

The Hong Kong government has announced it has 500 electronic monitoring tags ready to distribute to Hong Kong people placed under home quarantine upon returning to the SAR after having spent time in Hubei province, the epicenter of the ongoing coronavirus outbreak.

The government’s chief information officer, Victor Lam, unveiled the e-tag at a press briefing this afternoon, saying that any Hong Kong residents who have been to Hubei in the past 14 days must undergo home quarantine of 14 days, a measure the new electronic bracelets are meant to ensure.

The tag is paired to a person’s smartphone — using Bluetooth Low Energy, or BLE, technology — and is plugged into the mains at the wearer’s home.

If the person wearing the tag unplugs the phone and leaves the quarantine zone with it, or if the distance between the tag and the phone exceeds 20 meters, an alert will be sent to the Department of Health and the police.

The authorities will also get an alert if the tag is broken or removed. Anyone who violates the home quarantine order faces up to six months in jail and a fine of HK$5,000 (US$644).

Lam added that because of concerns about personal privacy, the e-tag will not collect any personal data, and the tags aren’t equipped with GPS. When asked by reporters how will they be able to find anyone who absconds, Lam said they will first try calling the person on their phone.

At the moment, 500 tags are ready to be handed out, and an additional 1,000 can be made available within two weeks if necessary.

The additional quarantine measures come after the authorities disclosed the city now has 15 confirmed cases of the little-understood and potentially fatal Wuhan coronavirus.

Also at today’s briefing was Undersecretary for Health Chui Tak-yi, who confirmed that the majority of the 97 places at the three current quarantine camps are already occupied, and officials are looking for additional sites. Other proposed sites have met with fierce resistance from nearby residents.

Chui said the government is working on turning the Sai Kung Outdoor Recreation Centre into a quarantine camp, and added that despite a weekend of protests in the area, they’re also moving ahead with plans to turn the Heritage Lodge near Mei Foo Sun Chuen Estate into the city’s fourth quarantine center.

Chui said the location of the lodge as a quarantine center was appropriate given that it’s not close to any apartments — being about a 10-minute walk away from the Mei Foo Sun Chuen Estate and the MTR station — and that the camps were just for people who are under quarantine but asymptomatic.
 
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DuckandCover

Proud Sheeple
I'm trying to find a way to refute this evaluation and I can't come up with anything that counters this summary.

Some (perhaps many) of the eventual deaths had not even been reported as cases during the earlier "cases" period. As such, this calculation (35% death rate) is overstated.
 

GammaRat

Veteran Member
Some (perhaps many) of the eventual deaths had not even been reported as cases during the earlier "cases" period. As such, this calculation (35% death rate) is overstated.
Without accurate figures, we can probably assume it's much higher than 3%, and hopefully lower than 35%. It also depends upon which country you reside in. I would much rather catch the virus in the US, than India... And earlier rather than later, considering the hospitals will eventually be overran.
 

vector7

Dot Collector
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/benonwine/status/1224838593862127617

A Wuhan doctor's conversation leaked: “Emergency ward becomes mortuary, nobody handles the bodies, crematorium too busy. Many #coronavirus patients pushed away without being tested or diagnosed”. (Reported by Jennifer Zeng)

2:06
195.5K views

From
曾錚 Jennifer Zeng
6:34 PM · Feb 4, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

Oookaay... so, if "all 33,427 hospitals" are overflowing with patients, how many do we want to guess per hospital? Even if it's only ten per hospital, that gives us 334,270 cases! Er, China? Would you like to start telling the truth?

Summerthyme

One small hospital overflowing having 1-2 die a day to the disease coupled with so many more not being tested and properly diagnosed from the video above seems the numbers being reported are extremely understated out of China.
 
Saw something earlier that says 3 Gorges dam is ramping up hydroelectric output to cover the loss of coal power due to coal plants being understaffed, but I cant find it again. Has anyone else seen it?
China Economy‏ @CE_ChinaEconomy 7h7 hours ago

The Three Gorges Reservoir raised its discharge volume to ensure water and power supply as the outbreak of the novel coronavirus has affected power coal reserves and coal-fired power generation in Hubei.

===

.
 

EMICT

Veteran Member
Some (perhaps many) of the eventual deaths had not even been reported as cases during the earlier "cases" period. As such, this calculation (35% death rate) is overstated.

We either take the numbers at face value without speculation in calculations or we discard the numbers entirely. Picking and choosing what to count based upon a preconceived figure for a death rate and recovery rate just doesn't work.

That's why I posted my above musings. These numbers are and will continue to be bogus because the PRC will not admit to actual or even best guestimate numbers. That is proven by GammaRat's deduction.
 
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