VIDEO You Need 2 Years of Food – Martin Armstrong

[Phelan]

I'm curious how you came to this conclusion.

I feel compelled to respond to this. I'm only speaking for me and all my examples are within the last 3 years

I've found powdered eggs 6mts and longer past their use by date, opened them and found paste that smelled most fowl.

Opened a tub of vacuum packed elbow noodles (9 years old) and found packets of powder that turned to gelatin when
you added water. Does it still have caloric value, I don't know.

brand new can of beef broth leaked, found it 6 months later (cause it was in the back, FIFO) lost 3 more cans all of the newest stock.

last Friday I was in the basement looking for pictures of my Mom to put out for my birthday party and found:
1: the galvanized trashcan I store dog food in had been invaded by mice, they used the 2 layers of paper at the bottom to nest in and ruined 60lbs of Natural balance dog food they got in through a dime sized hole in the bottom caused by a dent in the side.
2: The mice had bypassed the another can holding 80lbs of cat food. (mice went past this can to get to the dog food no droppings, no urine but little teeth marks on the corners of the bags) If the mice won't eat it then i WILL not feed it to my cats) oddly enough there was a dent in the side and a dime sized hole breaking the seam at the bottom.
3: I wondered when the dents happened as they weren't there in December when i last looked over storage in detail. The tub directly over the cans looked "stressed" inside i found that the tub was broken on the rear corner and had been turned around. inside was the remains of 8 replacements filters for my berky and a paint can of .22 that i though I'd shot 5 years ago.

Right now, I really don't want to fess up on whats happened to the contents of my freezers in the last 3 years.

Flame on.
Phelan

 

[desertvet2]

Everything we humans try fails.

Keep trying, work harder, be diligent...


Or die.

 

[Hfcomms]

If things fall apart to the point of needing two years of food, you're not gonna live long enough, or stay in the same place long enough, to be able to eat all that stored food.

That is an assumption on your part however. Nobody knows exactly how this is going to play out. I’d say if you are in an urban/suburban area you would be correct. If you live in a remote rural area after the first few months of collapse most of the people who haven’t died off will either be too weak to travel or will not have the ability to move around further than they can walk. Everything else being equal if you could choose between having one month’s worth of food on hand, six months or two years with everything you know what would you choose? I think most of us would choose two years.

 

[Hfcomms]

This guy (and several others) appear every 2-3-4 months on this forum with some sort of "doom is coming" and you need "this or that" .... usually, precious metals, ect ....

Listen, the talking heads have figured out what made Alex Jones (and others wealthy) .... preach doom, doom, doom .... always, always, and .... always!!!

Sure, dark days are ahead .... and sooner or later, these assclowns will be right on time with their predictions!

Lastly, Greg Hunter has built his YouTube audience off of these type of videos for 10 years now .... just like Sean from SGT report!

Disgusting!!!

Hey wait a minute, didn't Whitney Webb say just 2-3 months ago that we only have 3 months left???

Let’s see. 34 trillion in debt adding one trillion more every 100 days now, hundreds of trillion’s in unfunded liabilities. Southern border with mass migration wide open. A dysfunctional congress that wants billions more of borrowed money for war and waving the Ukrainian flag while our infrastructure fails, inflation eating people alive while the streets of our major cities are becoming open sewers etc. If you can’t see it coming by this point you are living in a state of denial and won’t make it very long at all when this house of cards comes crashing down. History may not repeat but it does rhyme.

 

[Hognutz]

I’m striving for 5 years worth….

 

[Hfcomms]

Better to have and not need then need and not have. There are hungry people around now you could give your excess away if you wanted to. I’d imagine in a few more years the food insecure among us is only going to grow. It won’t go to waste.

 

[Slydersan]

Good small can opener is the military P38 or P51 can opener. Designed to open "C" rats but it will work for bigger cans. Think they have them on Amazon.
Ex-military may still have a couple in a box somewhere.

I've mentioned this here on the board before, but it's one of the best ideas I've ever heard. So I use it. You can buy a "tin" of 50 or 100 of the P38 or P51 can openers for something like $30-40. (I prefer the bigger P51s). Open up your case/box of freeze dried food or number 10 cans and tape a P51 to the top of 2-3 cans per case. That way you will almost always have an easy way to open them up -even if you have to grab a couple on your way out the door. You easily can do this with smaller cans of stuff like soup/beans/veggies/etc. depending on how you have them stored. That way you have LOTS of them deployed ready to use instead of thinking in an emergency "hmmm I have a bag of P38s around here somewhere..."

 

[kytom]

Does he realize what kind of storage space you'd need for 2 years of food? Does he have 2 homes??

a 100 lb bag of rice doesnt take up much space and will feed a person for almost a year!

 

[attilla]

a 100 lb bag of rice doesnt take up much space and will feed a person for almost a year!

actually white rice at 1648 cal per pound gets you 451 cal per day for a year from a 100# bag.. Better add some spam and beans to that.

 

[mecoastie]

a 100 lb bag of rice doesnt take up much space and will feed a person for almost a year!

There are a little over 1600 calories a lb in white rice. 100 lbs for a year is only going to give you about 450 cals a day. You arent going to last a year on that.

 

[West]

I feel compelled to respond to this. I'm only speaking for me and all my examples are within the last 3 years

I've found powdered eggs 6mts and longer past their use by date, opened them and found paste that smelled most fowl.

Opened a tub of vacuum packed elbow noodles (9 years old) and found packets of powder that turned to gelatin when
you added water. Does it still have caloric value, I don't know.

brand new can of beef broth leaked, found it 6 months later (cause it was in the back, FIFO) lost 3 more cans all of the newest stock.

last Friday I was in the basement looking for pictures of my Mom to put out for my birthday party and found:
1: the galvanized trashcan I store dog food in had been invaded by mice, they used the 2 layers of paper at the bottom to nest in and ruined 60lbs of Natural balance dog food they got in through a dime sized hole in the bottom caused by a dent in the side.
2: The mice had bypassed the another can holding 80lbs of cat food. (mice went past this can to get to the dog food no droppings, no urine but little teeth marks on the corners of the bags) If the mice won't eat it then i WILL not feed it to my cats) oddly enough there was a dent in the side and a dime sized hole breaking the seam at the bottom.
3: I wondered when the dents happened as they weren't there in December when i last looked over storage in detail. The tub directly over the cans looked "stressed" inside i found that the tub was broken on the rear corner and had been turned around. inside was the remains of 8 replacements filters for my berky and a paint can of .22 that i though I'd shot 5 years ago.

Right now, I really don't want to fess up on whats happened to the contents of my freezers in the last 3 years.

Flame on.
Phelan

Don't feel alone!

 

[mecoastie]

I feel compelled to respond to this. I'm only speaking for me and all my examples are within the last 3 years

I've found powdered eggs 6mts and longer past their use by date, opened them and found paste that smelled most fowl.

Opened a tub of vacuum packed elbow noodles (9 years old) and found packets of powder that turned to gelatin when
you added water. Does it still have caloric value, I don't know.

brand new can of beef broth leaked, found it 6 months later (cause it was in the back, FIFO) lost 3 more cans all of the newest stock.

last Friday I was in the basement looking for pictures of my Mom to put out for my birthday party and found:
1: the galvanized trashcan I store dog food in had been invaded by mice, they used the 2 layers of paper at the bottom to nest in and ruined 60lbs of Natural balance dog food they got in through a dime sized hole in the bottom caused by a dent in the side.
2: The mice had bypassed the another can holding 80lbs of cat food. (mice went past this can to get to the dog food no droppings, no urine but little teeth marks on the corners of the bags) If the mice won't eat it then i WILL not feed it to my cats) oddly enough there was a dent in the side and a dime sized hole breaking the seam at the bottom.
3: I wondered when the dents happened as they weren't there in December when i last looked over storage in detail. The tub directly over the cans looked "stressed" inside i found that the tub was broken on the rear corner and had been turned around. inside was the remains of 8 replacements filters for my berky and a paint can of .22 that i though I'd shot 5 years ago.

Right now, I really don't want to fess up on whats happened to the contents of my freezers in the last 3 years.

Flame on.
Phelan

Last 2 years I lost a freezer, had mice get into my seed supply and get into grain that was just mylared on a shelf. All lessons learned. I now have freezer alarms and all my seeds and grain are in metal cans.

 

[mecoastie]

From Nuclear War Skills https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA328301.pdf :


From LDS Food Storage for One Year :

 

[CaryC]

I've mentioned this here on the board before, but it's one of the best ideas I've ever heard. So I use it. You can buy a "tin" of 50 or 100 of the P38 or P51 can openers for something like $30-40. (I prefer the bigger P51s). Open up your case/box of freeze dried food or number 10 cans and tape a P51 to the top of 2-3 cans per case. That way you will almost always have an easy way to open them up -even if you have to grab a couple on your way out the door. You easily can do this with smaller cans of stuff like soup/beans/veggies/etc. depending on how you have them stored. That way you have LOTS of them deployed ready to use instead of thinking in an emergency "hmmm I have a bag of P38s around here somewhere..."

Keep a P38 on my key chain. The local military surplus place has a fish bowl full of P51's sitting on the check out counter. Keep a P51 on the same chain with the fire starter bar.

And don't forget you can use the Gibbs can opener. A knife. BUT it will dull your knife, so either dedicate a knife to that, or carry a sharpener.

From LDS Food Storage for One Year :

Should be noted that the water recommendation is 14 gallons for 2 weeks=14 days=one gallon per day for 14 days. Which is to be used for drinking, NOT for baths, brushing teeth, or even to be used in cooking or cleaning (which is what you would do with some of the powdered milk). So if you will need to add water to say beans to cook them, add more water. Clean pots and pans, instead of eating out of an open can of Vi-anna, add more water.

Better to have and not need then need and not have. There are hungry people around now you could give your excess away if you wanted to. I’d imagine in a few more years the food insecure among us is only going to grow. It won’t go to waste.

True!

Isn't it odd that people feel that storing money, (savings) PM's is a good thing, and the more money the better, I mean who doesn't want more money. Something you can't eat. But don't feel the same way about food, something you can eat.

IMHO the real key to food storage is rotation.

As far as I know all cans of beans etc, that you get at walmart have a 2 year shelf life. It says so on the can. As you build up your storage, like they did before refrigeration (1800's) keep your storage rotated. Using food out of your pantry, keeps you in the pantry and up on condition of stores, and keeps your food in an edible condition. And then buy food to replace what you use out of your pantry.

And a simple way to build storage is use one buy two.

That doesn't mean mice and moths won't get in your pantry, that has been going on for thousands of years, but it does mean you will know it quicker, and less damage.

BTW anyone who thinks they will survive on wild whatever, and have never done it, city slicker or rural living, you have a big surprise waiting for you, and it ain't a good one.

 

[Border Collie Dad]

BTW anyone who thinks they will survive on wild whatever, and have never done it, city slicker or rural living, you have a big surprise waiting for you, and it ain't a good one.

Lots of other people will have the same idea.
Here in western Pa, we're overrun with whitetails.

How long do you think they'll last when the SHTF?

 

[Hfcomms]

Keep a P38 on my key chain. The local military surplus place has a fish bowl full of P51's sitting on the check out counter. Keep a P51 on the same chain with the fire starter bar.

And don't forget you can use the Gibbs can opener. A knife. BUT it will dull your knife, so either dedicate a knife to that, or carry a sharpener.


Should be noted that the water recommendation is 14 gallons for 2 weeks=14 days=one gallon per day for 14 days. Which is to be used for drinking, NOT for baths, brushing teeth, or even to be used in cooking or cleaning (which is what you would do with some of the powdered milk). So if you will need to add water to say beans to cook them, add more water. Clean pots and pans, instead of eating out of an open can of Vi-anna, add more water.


True!

Isn't it odd that people feel that storing money, (savings) PM's is a good thing, and the more money the better, I mean who doesn't want more money. Something you can't eat. But don't feel the same way about food, something you can eat.

IMHO the real key to food storage is rotation.

As far as I know all cans of beans etc, that you get at walmart have a 2 year shelf life. It says so on the can. As you build up your storage, like they did before refrigeration (1800's) keep your storage rotated. Using food out of your pantry, keeps you in the pantry and up on condition of stores, and keeps your food in an edible condition. And then buy food to replace what you use out of your pantry.

And a simple way to build storage is use one buy two.

That doesn't mean mice and moths won't get in your pantry, that has been going on for thousands of years, but it does mean you will know it quicker, and less damage.

BTW anyone who thinks they will survive on wild whatever, and have never done it, city slicker or rural living, you have a big surprise waiting for you, and it ain't a good one.

FWIW the canned foods will last a lot longer than what is printed on the can. I have eaten canned veggies that are seven or eight years past the expiration date with no trouble. The beans might get a bit mushy and the corn tasting a bit ‘stale’ but still perfectly edible. You can put the older stuff into casseroles and nobody is the wiser. I’ve eaten 12 year old canned tuna and spam with no problem. Put them into a casserole with the old veggies, add some spices and bake it up and it will be fine. I’ve done 22 year old boxes of mac & cheese from the storage shed with no problems. You have to boil the macaroni a few minutes more and break up the cheese package with a small hammer and you can throw some of the old veggies or canned meats into it.

I’m sure for the old stuff most of the nutrients are gone but they are still bulk calories you can burn up. A lot of the various storage foods will last a lot longer than people may think.

 

[Matt]

For those that say they can't prepare or you don't want menu fatigue..... you need to realize that people were killing and eating children as well as digging up fresh corpses to eat in both Ukraine and China!

And to those that say "well , those were intentional famines perpetrated by government"..... so is the one coming here!

 

[school marm]

"Best By" Dates: What Those Numbers Stamped on Cans and Packages Really Mean

"Best By" Dates--What Those Numbers Stamped on Cans and Packages Really Mean​

​

You know, those various dates stamped on packages have been a business boon for food manufacturers. Because most Americans don't understand those numbers, hundreds of thousands of pounds of food get thrown away every day. So much money is wasted. Then there are those of us who do use foods way past the magical date on the package, much to the horror of those around us. Having a little understanding of these dates and how they work can make us and our family feel a little more reassured.


To begin with, let's take a look at the various terms.

• Best by dates are used by the canned food industry. They are not expiration dates. The manufacturer states that the product will remain at peak quality and nutrition through that date. It has nothing to do with safety.
• Use by is the last day peak quality is guaranteed by the manufacturer.
• Sell by dates are for perishables like dairy and produce. It is the last day for which the item is at peak quality and freshness. The issue is the quality of the item--taste, freshness, consistency--not whether it is about to spoil.
• Guaranteed fresh usually refers to bakery items. The bread doesn't magically go bad the day after; it just may not taste quite so fresh.

Noteworthy is the fact that none of these dates are required by the government. The only food that must be dated is baby formula. All those other dates--best by, use by, sell by, guaranteed fresh--are provided voluntarily by the food manufacturers. It helps grocery stores rotate stock efficiently. The fact that most consumers don't understand the meaning of those dates and interpret them to mean discard is an added bonus.

More at the link above.

 

[nomifyle]

I know two women around here (and I'm sure they are not the only ones) that are"rabid" about dates on things. They refuse to use them past the date and in the trash they go. I doubt these women have ever been hungry. These are country women that go to the grocery every week and have to drive at least 20 miles to get there. One grew up and lived around here all her life, the other lived in a medium sized college town most of her life. Living the American life. Americans are spoiled. Without a doubt hard times are coming and many won't know what hit them. These two women are excellent cooks but they don't cook from basic ingredients, they cook from stuff.

 

[bbbuddy]

There are wildly different stories about how long your stored foods last, and I believe everyone is telling truthfully what has happened to their stored foods, but one thing overlooked is the humidity where you live.

Those who live in western dry states have drastically different outcomes especially in canned foods compared to those in humid southern states.

For example, many people report on cans going bad, especially things like tomatoes, etc.

But here in Arizona I have never had a can go bad.
I've even eaten large jars of GV (Peter Pan) peanut Butter stored in a horse trailer for 7-9 years and tasted like bought last week.
So you must take into account climate conditions where you live when food storage planning.

 

[CaryC]

Lots of other people will have the same idea.
Here in western Pa, we're overrun with whitetails.

How long do you think they'll last when the SHTF?

I have said this before......but:

It's a double dohicky thingy.

1) you're right in that if everyone goes hunting, and they are successful, it will decimate the population quickly

2) it ain't that easy to kill a whitetail I don't care how big the population is. MS is rated as No. 2 on the Whitetail population. TX is No. 1 and you can easily see the difference (size of the state). And there are thousand of hunters in MS that don't see any deer year after year. Deer are not dumb, and once they "feel" the pressure, they go total nocturnal. My son killed 4: 2 does, and 2 - 7 points. do you know how many other hunters in his hunting club did that? None.

And once a hunter for survival goes without food, that is a bad cycle and health and sustainability/energy goes down hill fast.

Once the rut comes on, and it's early in PA, and later in MS, we have a couple of girls, strutting their stuff in the backyard every night. Once that is off, never see them in daylight, or night time again for better than 6 months. And starting right now, they are dropping their fawns.

And is another reason (because of those two above) I recommend people have .22's for small game. Which will probably be the go to game instead of deer.

That's just my way of thinking.

 

[CaryC]

FWIW the canned foods will last a lot longer than what is printed on the can. I have eaten canned veggies that are seven or eight years past the expiration date with no trouble. The beans might get a bit mushy and the corn tasting a bit ‘stale’ but still perfectly edible. You can put the older stuff into casseroles and nobody is the wiser. I’ve eaten 12 year old canned tuna and spam with no problem. Put them into a casserole with the old veggies, add some spices and bake it up and it will be fine. I’ve done 22 year old boxes of mac & cheese from the storage shed with no problems. You have to boil the macaroni a few minutes more and break up the cheese package with a small hammer and you can throw some of the old veggies or canned meats into it.

I’m sure for the old stuff most of the nutrients are gone but they are still bulk calories you can burn up. A lot of the various storage foods will last a lot longer than people may think.

Yeah I get that no problem and we have too.

The Walking Dead were eating canned beans 5 years into it.

Just saying the 2 year recommendation of this thread, and the recommendation on the cans is a pretty good rule of thumb.

When it comes to survival all bets are off. Vultures and maggots will have to fend for themselves. This road kill is mine. LOL There will have to be cars moving to have road kill.

 

[Hfcomms]

There are wildly different stories about how long your stored foods last, and I believe everyone is telling truthfully what has happened to their stored foods, but one thing overlooked is the humidity where you live.

Those who live in western dry states have drastically different outcomes especially in canned foods compared to those in humid southern states.

For example, many people report on cans going bad, especially things like tomatoes, etc.

But here in Arizona I have never had a can go bad.
I've even eaten large jars of GV (Peter Pan) peanut Butter stored in a horse trailer for 7-9 years and tasted like bought last week.
So you must take into account climate conditions where you live when food storage planning.

Yeah, if I lived along the gulf coast with high heat and humidity I don’t think my stuff would last nearly as long. For seven months a year up here everything in the storage sheds gets frozen and we rarely have more than a handful of days up here over 90 degrees so where you live is a big factor. If I lived near the gulf I’d have to do a lot more freeze dried to duplicate what I have and it would be a lot more expensive.

 

[summerthyme]

Yeah, if I lived along the gulf coast with high heat and humidity I don’t think my stuff would last nearly as long. For seven months a year up here everything in the storage sheds gets frozen and we rarely have more than a handful of days up here over 90 degrees so where you live is a big factor. If I lived near the gulf I’d have to do a lot more freeze dried to duplicate what I have and it would be a lot more expensive.

True, but those who live further south have MUCH longer growing seasons... with practice, and small modifications (shade cloth in the hotter months, for one) they can grow and harvest *something * at least 10 months out of the year.

2 years has always been our goal. Since we already live a subsistence lifestyle, growing 90% of our food, it isn't so much "prepping" as simply making sure we have adequate amounts of whatever to get us through in case of a crop failure. Part of the problem with rotating long term stocks is that our garden and livestock program currently means we don't *need* to use the buckets of beans, rice and pasta. It makes no sense to dig out some stored noodles when I just made 5# of fresh egg noodles from extra eggs and stored flour.

Even before I was a prepper, I still followed the old pattern... stock up on staples in the fall, start growing fresh greens as early in Spring as possible, can and freeze produce during the growing season (while eating mostly fresh out of the gardens)...rinse and repeat.

Right now, I clean the sprouts off half a bushel of potatoes a couple times a week. Hubby cooks them on an outdoor propane burner, then mixes in curdled skim milk (left after I skim the cream for butter and ice cream). Then he feeds it to the yearling group of cattle... 2 are finishing right now for butchering next month, and three will be finished for fall. Leftover potatoes are a practical replacement for expensive cornmeal.

Summerthyme

 

[Walrus]

Yeah I get that no problem and we have too.

The Walking Dead were eating canned beans 5 years into it.

Just saying the 2 year recommendation of this thread, and the recommendation on the cans is a pretty good rule of thumb.

When it comes to survival all bets are off. Vultures and maggots will have to fend for themselves. This road kill is mine. LOL There will have to be cars moving to have road kill.

Armstrong makes a good point and I'm not surprised that you agree. After years of hearing "a year's worth of food per person" being pounded into my brain, a couple of years ago I decided that wasn't enough food. When offering a seminar on menu analysis during SHTD or WROL, I began spreading the premise that one year's worth just wasn't enough. There are too many variables.

My own interest sprang from wondering how much total food was required for a fair-sized group for a year, so I built a spreadsheet to analyze it. The cool thing is that the inputs can be adjusted easily and the spreadsheet tallies up the annual amounts. I was shocked at first by how large those amounts could become. Again, lots of variables - and no, I don't really care to share the spreadsheet. It's really just a simple Excel file which anyone can create, based on their own assumptions.

In my base case, I settled on a group size of 24 people. (I have no real clear idea about what the actual number could be but had to start somewhere). I also put together a simple menu based on 2 meals/day and roughly 2500 calories/day. My premise there was that serving 3 meals/day would take a kitchen crew working from pre-dawn to dusk just cooking and cleaning, and it just didn't sound right to me.

So working from the basic assumptions, you progress from the amounts required for each meal into a daily need, stretch that into a 30-day amount to looks at a month's worth of supplies, and from that onto a year's worth (or six months or whatever floats your boat). Progressing from that, you analyze the meat, veggies, etc. needs and suddenly you're faced with the annual amounts of food required.

But this approach doesn't allow for possible - or even probable - variables. Think, for instance, of losing a harvest because of bad weather or an upset in the group such as fighting off marauders right in the middle of canning season interferes with the process. Thinking like this is what led me to the 2-year per person basic requirement of storage food.

One note about something I read recently: Food that you've stored is really considered to be short-term food. Food which you've produced is what determines your amount of long-term food. I apologize profusely if I read that here on TB2K and forgot the author, but regardless, it seemed to me to be incredibly profound and prescient.

 

[West]

Our dogs found this peace protester trespassing, in good times we are letting the buzzards eat it. But it's a food source in our AO....

 

[summerthyme]

As far as the "2 meals vs 3 meals a day", you'd probably find a group would evolve to the old farm pattern, where a big breakfast was served after 2-3 hours of chores were finished, then "dinner"... the main meal, served around 1 pm or even a bit later.

"Supper" was light, and basically leftovers from dinner, often eaten cold.

However... there were always snacks available... home baked cookies, fresh fruit from the root cellar, bread and butter,a chunk of cheese and a biscuit... and these items were understood to be free for the taking. (Something few ever mention is the need for only one person to have control over the inventory and supplies. Without the rule "the food supplies are off limits except for meals and *these* snacks that are available for everyone", you'll quickly find "high value" foods (ie: sweets, leftover bacon, etc) will quickly vanish.)

And you can't simply mandate only eating at meals... people who are working hard often need a blood sugar boost in between.

Also... something I've repeated too often, probably, is in our weight conscious, calorie counting society, most have NO idea what a hard working man or woman (or worse, a teen!) can consume in terms of daily calories, and stay fit. When we married, I quickly realized hubby (who isn't a big man... 5'6" and 150# of muscle in his early 20s) *needed* at least 5,000 calories a day to not lose weight! I literally had never seen people eat like his family did!

When our kids were growing, my Mom would visit. She loved to cook and help out, so she'd ask how many potatoes to peel for supper. The first couple times I casually replied, "oh, at least 10 pounds", she looked at me like I was nuts! Then she realized we often didn't have enough leftovers to serve them at breakfast or lunch the next day!

Occasionally, I'll run across one of my old "to do" lists, or a mention in my journal of my baking for the week. 12 loaves of bread would usually get us through a week. I'd bake 3 or 4 pies, 10 dozen cookies, a sheet cake or cupcakes, and often a batch of cinnamon rolls... and we'd always run out! No one was remotely fat, either!

A whole bunch of folks are going to be in for a real shock...

Summerthyme

 

[mecoastie]

I have said this before......but:

It's a double dohicky thingy.

1) you're right in that if everyone goes hunting, and they are successful, it will decimate the population quickly

2) it ain't that easy to kill a whitetail I don't care how big the population is. MS is rated as No. 2 on the Whitetail population. TX is No. 1 and you can easily see the difference (size of the state). And there are thousand of hunters in MS that don't see any deer year after year. Deer are not dumb, and once they "feel" the pressure, they go total nocturnal. My son killed 4: 2 does, and 2 - 7 points. do you know how many other hunters in his hunting club did that? None.

And once a hunter for survival goes without food, that is a bad cycle and health and sustainability/energy goes down hill fast.

Once the rut comes on, and it's early in PA, and later in MS, we have a couple of girls, strutting their stuff in the backyard every night. Once that is off, never see them in daylight, or night time again for better than 6 months. And starting right now, they are dropping their fawns.

And is another reason (because of those two above) I recommend people have .22's for small game. Which will probably be the go to game instead of deer.

That's just my way of thinking.

What keeps the whitetails alive is hunting laws. Can only hunt at certain times of the year, cant hunt at night, cant hunt too close to homes, can only use certain ammo or magazine size etc. Look at history. Deer were pushed to the brink until the development of game laws and the population of humans was a lot smaller. Take those away in a hunger situation and those deer get hammered quickly. Those that survive will be pushed way back into the swamps and not come out. Even small game will disappear quickly. Couple squirrels a day and you will be out of squirrels in your AOR pretty quickly.

Worse than that will be the waste. Most people wont know how to dress them or preserve them and a lot of that meat will get wasted.

 

[packyderms_wife]

Lastly, Greg Hunter has built his YouTube audience off of these type of videos for 10 years now .... just like Sean from SGT report!

A couple of weeks ago it was Glen Beck. Prepping needs to be a lifestyle, not an OMG we need to prep for three years of armageddon type thing.

We can beef up, not because the world is going to come to an end, but because it comes in real handy at times. Saturday neither one of us wanted to "cook" so I made pickled beets, and he made beef and noodles with peas. The beef for the noodle dish was from our home canned beef and oh so good.

 

[packyderms_wife]

something I've repeated too often, probably, is in our weight conscious, calorie counting society, most have NO idea what a hard working man or woman (or worse, a teen!) can consume in terms of daily calories, and stay fit. When we married, I quickly realized hubby (who isn't a big man... 5'6" and 150# of muscle in his early 20s) *needed* at least 5,000 calories a day to not lose weight! I literally had never seen people eat like his family did!

This^^^

Sarah Plain and Tall, she's on Instagram, got a lot of sh*t because she revealed that she cans on average 2000 jars of "meals" a year, and also fruit, for a total of 3000 jars. There's five of them in their family IIRC. She also dehydrates, ferments, cures, and now freeze dries produce and other foods. In addition to this she makes homemade breads, cookies, pies, etc.,

What she caught grief for was the 2000 pints of food, meal prep items, because NO ONE needs to eat 2 to 3 pints of food per day. Yep, people went crazy with the math breaking everything down to pounds and ounces per person.

People don't realize just. how much food they are consuming in one day, and when they work really hard, they consume a lot of calories, which ends up being more than two pints of food a day... a pints a pound the world around, lol.

 

[hd5574]

As far as the "2 meals vs 3 meals a day", you'd probably find a group would evolve to the old farm pattern, where a big breakfast was served after 2-3 hours of chores were finished, then "dinner"... the main meal, served around 1 pm or even a bit later.

"Supper" was light, and basically leftovers from dinner, often eaten cold.

However... there were always snacks available... home baked cookies, fresh fruit from the root cellar, bread and butter,a chunk of cheese and a biscuit... and these items were understood to be free for the taking. (Something few ever mention is the need for only one person to have control over the inventory and supplies. Without the rule "the food supplies are off limits except for meals and *these* snacks that are available for everyone", you'll quickly find "high value" foods (ie: sweets, leftover bacon, etc) will quickly vanish.)

And you can't simply mandate only eating at meals... people who are working hard often need a blood sugar boost in between.

Also... something I've repeated too often, probably, is in our weight conscious, calorie counting society, most have NO idea what a hard working man or woman (or worse, a teen!) can consume in terms of daily calories, and stay fit. When we married, I quickly realized hubby (who isn't a big man... 5'6" and 150# of muscle in his early 20s) *needed* at least 5,000 calories a day to not lose weight! I literally had never seen people eat like his family did!

When our kids were growing, my Mom would visit. She loved to cook and help put, so she'd ask how many potatoes to peel for supper. The first couple times I casually replied, "oh, at least 10 pounds", she looked at me like I was nuts! Then she realized we often didn't have enough leftovers to serve them at breakfast or lunch the next day!

Occasionally, I'll run across one of my old "to do" lists, or a mention in my journal of my baking for the week. 12 loaves of bread would usually get us through a week. I'd bake 3 or 4 pies, 10 dozen cookies, a sheet cake or cupcakes, and often a batch of cinnamon rolls... and we'd always run out! No one was remotely fat, either!

A whole bunch of folks are going to be in for a real shock...

Summerthyme

I remember my aunt telling me about cooking for the harvest...when she was first married..(1929) she and her husband moved to the Shenandoah valley to his parents farm...
Farm owners and their workers from farms all around would come at dawn to get the harvest in ...after they had worked several hours... they would come in for breakfast..
The women would have an unbelievable amount of food cooked for them... large platters of bacon, sausage, ham..platters of eggs fixed every which way.... biscuits and butter.. pancakes... fried taters and several kinds fruit pies..I have probably forgotten somethings they cooked
Back then the harvest was done by hand.
Equipment we have today didn't exist...these people worked and needed the calories
I always wondered where they ever got enough platters, plates and silverware for all the food they made ,:-)

After cooking and doing dishes ..
she was responsible for walking the horse around in a circle around the apple butter cooking over a wood fire..in a huge cast iron pot.. the stirring paddle was tied horse..
I can't imagine cooking that much apple butter..that you needed a horse to stir it..
You need a lot of calories to work like that.. from sun up to sun down..

One of the reasons we store plenty of rice noodles and potatoes...almost anything can be served over them or with them to boost the calories in meals ..
I agree people will be shocked by the amount of food needed

 

[jward]

here's another calculator many find useful - at least in the beginning stages of trying to wrap their heads around what food storage for "x" amount of time for "y" amount of people looks like.

- I just figure my menus for a month and multiply

Food Storage Calculator

Use this food storage calculator to determine the minimum requirements for your family.

www.thefoodguys.com

 

[JBR]

The uninitiated will starve, as they have no clue how to be, a hunter / gatherer. Curing salts to preserve, in conjunction with smoking red meat and fish. Garden, then properly preserve the harvest. Save seeds for the following growing season.
Unfortunately, most will die from drinking contaminated water, long before it gets to that point.

The best that we can hope for, is enough available sustenance, to carry us through until we are able to harvest and store. Spoilage, vermin, insects, humidity, mold, can lay waste to storage. Having the ability to replenish, is the key to long term success.

 

[Walrus]

(Something few ever mention is the need for only one person to have control over the inventory and supplies. Without the rule "the food supplies are off limits except for meals and *these* snacks that are available for everyone"

You're absolutely right about that and it should be a universal understanding, especially among larger groups which have good-sized working teams.

In our (presumed) org chart, the team leaders for the kitchen crew and the inventory/logistics team leader are two separate jobs with diverging priorities in some cases. The inventory person needs to secure the group's food supply and ensure that the kitchen crew has its needs met, and also advising the chief cook/bottlewasher that there might be a developing problem with one of the upcoming menu items. The kitchen crew leader doesn't need to worry about the inventory of supplies with how busy they're going to be every day.

Maybe some chickens or a pig or even a steer need to be butchered in the next month or so, and depending on how far back into the 1800s we've been thrown, we might be using spring houses or root cellars for medium-term preservation.

I've sort of settled on 9ish am and 3ish pm for primary meal times, but you're right again. After evening chores, just having some leftovers or a sweet snack are good munchies to take the edge off.

One crew which is going to have a lot of work to do early on are the seamstresses. There's going to be some incredible tonnage shedding off the survivors, and the sewing people will be busy taking in to make sure people's pants aren't falling off through the day!

 

[West]

What keeps the whitetails alive is hunting laws. Can only hunt at certain times of the year, cant hunt at night, cant hunt too close to homes, can only use certain ammo or magazine size etc. Look at history. Deer were pushed to the brink until the development of game laws and the population of humans was a lot smaller. Take those away in a hunger situation and those deer get hammered quickly. Those that survive will be pushed way back into the swamps and not come out. Even small game will disappear quickly. Couple squirrels a day and you will be out of squirrels in your AOR pretty quickly.

Worse than that will be the waste. Most people wont know how to dress them or preserve them and a lot of that meat will get wasted.

Need to add...

That it was the monies of hard working tax payers and mostly the sportsmen and true environmentalists that actually pay and donate to the states fish and game management programs. That have made the rebound of delicious wildlife big and small game by financing the game management.

Just saying.

 

[CaryC]

What keeps the whitetails alive is hunting laws. Can only hunt at certain times of the year, cant hunt at night, cant hunt too close to homes, can only use certain ammo or magazine size etc. Look at history. Deer were pushed to the brink until the development of game laws and the population of humans was a lot smaller. Take those away in a hunger situation and those deer get hammered quickly. Those that survive will be pushed way back into the swamps and not come out. Even small game will disappear quickly. Couple squirrels a day and you will be out of squirrels in your AOR pretty quickly.

Worse than that will be the waste. Most people wont know how to dress them or preserve them and a lot of that meat will get wasted.

Like I said there are a couple of aspects in several different situations.

First while you claim hunting laws has increased the game, and that is a true statement, no doubt about that at all. Deer are still going to be deer, no matter the laws. Nocturnal, and most people may not have or use night vision gear, and resort to spotlighting. Hunting deer on another person's land, at night, may also involve being hunted by the land owner. If we're in survival mode that will be a thing.

No doubt there may be an initial hammering, those deer use to the old normal, after the first month, it will be the hunters who end up taking a hammering, and the deer population starts to reverse. Everybody with a gun in not a hunter.

Taking a deer without refrigeration or freezer ability, means knowing not only skinning and cleaning tech, but also preserving tech. Meaning initially a lot of meat spoilage. So the meat doesn't go as far, and more hunting, needs to be done with game animals that are getting use to the new normal. So less success, and longer periods without meat.

As that increases more hunter die off.

So that the number of hunters overall will increase, but the amount of game taken will be less, in that the left over hunters will only take what they can preserve and eat or eat on a daily basis.

Animals aren't dumb, as in dumb animals. They are survivors.

We have a pecan tree in our back yard. SB said she wanted the pecans out of it, one year several years ago. I killed 14 squirrels and 3 crows out it that year. While there are several hundred crows in the bottom below my house, and they caw all the time. Never another crow in the tree, not even for resting.

And the squirrels, that back door cracks, and they are gone. Even now. And they play and dig for acorns in the yard.

All I'm saying is: like gardening for food, which may not yield what you need for one reason or another, COUNTING on hunting will be the same, not yielding what you need for one reason or another. Even for good gardeners, and good hunters.

So having a couple of years stored, whether you need it everyday or not, is a good idea. Like having a savings account for retirement. If you don't need it, it will go further if you do, it will be there.

 

[Wyominglarry]

I ate C rations from WWII made in 1944 while in Nam. They seem to last forever.

 

[Mprepared]

here's another calculator many find useful - at least in the beginning stages of trying to wrap their heads around what food storage for "x" amount of time for "y" amount of people looks like.

- I just figure my menus for a month and multiply

Food Storage Calculator

Use this food storage calculator to determine the minimum requirements for your family.

www.thefoodguys.com

Is that calculator for a year?

 

[bw]

I ate C rations from WWII made in 1944 while in Nam. They seem to last forever.

We had them in Basic in '68, no problem. I kept MREs in my trunk in Louisiana for ten years for emergencies, they were fine. Except for the cheese, but I never ate that anyway.

 

[custom2006]

Let’s see. 34 trillion in debt adding one trillion more every 100 days now, hundreds of trillion’s in unfunded liabilities. Southern border with mass migration wide open. A dysfunctional congress that wants billions more of borrowed money for war and waving the Ukrainian flag while our infrastructure fails, inflation eating people alive while the streets of our major cities are becoming open sewers etc. If you can’t see it coming by this point you are living in a state of denial and won’t make it very long at all when this house of cards comes crashing down. History may not repeat but it does rhyme.

I didn't say I couldn't see it coming! Fact is, many of these same talking heads have been saying the exact same thing since 2012 when they didn't think that being 12 and 15 trillion in national debt with 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities was sustainable and that doom was right around the corner!

Sure, it's coming and one day all of these people saying that it's just around the corner are going to be correct, but until then, they need to relax, because most of them are doing it for their own personal gain, whether it be YouTube views or whatever the hell they're selling!