bracketquant
Veteran Member
Perhaps I'll run a few experiments this year, especially on white beans. At what temperature, and for how long, do you stratify beans?
FOOD I've come to the sad truth that most, not all, of the dried beans in our stores are no longer sproutable
- Thread starter Wildwood
- Start date
I had some stevia butter bean seed we had grown about 15 years.. ago they had been just sitting there in a jar in the kitchen....and we decided to grow them again I had a nearly impossible time finding ...any seed ... finally sprouted the ones on the counter.. they all sprouted but one... so we had one pot that year and grew out the rest for seed...we now have several years worth of seed...
not finding the seed for sale here is nuts
Thomas Jefferson grew them here at Monticello back in the 1700s...the old hardware store in town..no longer there...always carried them loose by the pound..
I have grown Goya... Giant Lima now I will have to sprout beans to see what works..if anything
not finding the seed for sale here is nuts
Thomas Jefferson grew them here at Monticello back in the 1700s...the old hardware store in town..no longer there...always carried them loose by the pound..
I have grown Goya... Giant Lima now I will have to sprout beans to see what works..if anything
That is a long time but I'm not surprised. The old lines of seeds were hardy.
I bought a huge garbage bag of fresh pink eye purple hull peas years ago at a yard sale when I was taking care of my daddy, took them home and he started shelling them immediately. I ended up keeping some for a seed crop because they were the best I'd ever eaten but daddy got worse and for the next three years, I couldn't even grow a garden. He got a little better eventually and I decided to start the garden back and remembered those peas I'd put in a paper sack and set them in a back room that we use for storage and don't heat or cool. I am so thankful I did that one thing. Unbelievably, I had almost 100% germination that first year and now faithfully save a huge seed crop every year.
They are pole beans and if you saw my garden pics, I had two big rows side by side on the far left facing the garden. I got a pic from the other end of the row and you can see how prolificly they grow and they produce like crazy. I can all I can every year but we get our fill eating them fresh first. Daddy had all the peas he could eat his last few years. The last thing my aunt ever cooked for her and her husband was a big old pot of those peas.
I have a really great strain of Giant melting sugar snow peas...that we save seed from...only about half make it into the house..I just stand in the garden eating them..they are up and climbing..
I can't wait...so easy to grow and outrageous price ..in the stores for a mini container
All the beans/peas ..we grow are pole
sevia butter beans...the melting sugar snow peas and we grow the old blue lake pole green beans..they are getting hard to find..lots of bush around...but.not many pole... anymore.. I canned 60 pints off a 14' row planted on both sides year...before last..and cooked all we could eat and gave beans away...got plenty to eat last year but we were dry....so not as many
I will have to get to saving there seed too.. i had plenty..for several years..
we run our cukes up field fence also...grow straight eight...and save them..
I do save the Cherokee purple tomatoes...plant them by the garden fence...and the get so tall we end up having to tie them to the fence
the old varieties just have so much more flavor than the hybrids.
I pray we all have a wonderful gardening year
I can't wait...so easy to grow and outrageous price ..in the stores for a mini container
All the beans/peas ..we grow are pole
sevia butter beans...the melting sugar snow peas and we grow the old blue lake pole green beans..they are getting hard to find..lots of bush around...but.not many pole... anymore.. I canned 60 pints off a 14' row planted on both sides year...before last..and cooked all we could eat and gave beans away...got plenty to eat last year but we were dry....so not as many
I will have to get to saving there seed too.. i had plenty..for several years..
we run our cukes up field fence also...grow straight eight...and save them..
I do save the Cherokee purple tomatoes...plant them by the garden fence...and the get so tall we end up having to tie them to the fence
the old varieties just have so much more flavor than the hybrids.
I pray we all have a wonderful gardening year
Fifteen years is a long time...thank goodness you were able to save them. Pole is all I raise too. I've tried bush varieties but I prefer the pole. They are much easier to pick and stay a lot cleaner plus they usually produce more and for a longer period of time. Once my peas start producing, they keep going until the first frost. I'm very careful when I'm picking them, not to damage anything. DH is the only other person allowed to pick them lol.
I've got some four o' clock seeds I found when we sold my parent's house last fall and my mother has been gone for eighteen years so they are at least that old. They are the speckled white ones so I'm going to try to germinate them once I get caught up on the garden. The day before we closed on the house, I waded into that huge four o' clock patch and got all the seeds I could but most were the run of the mill kind. It's a miracle I didn't get snake bit.
bracketquant
Veteran Member
Sieva Carolina lima beans they're called.
Here is a youtube video...are these like yours? They do look good...I think I'll try some.
Yes...
Yes...they are called that too
The old people who taught me to grow them over 50 years ago were from Carolina...and they always just called them sieva.... They were grown and had kids when the depression hit..they had forgotten more than i will ever know..
reminds me of hopi pale grey squash.
I looked for seed forever.
then 1 day I saw seedsavers, have it for the first time.
I snatched up some and they were sold out fast.
since then, I have sent the seeds to anyone who asked.
one friend got free seeds from me
and the next yr she is selling them online
big squash. 6-20 lbs.. lotsa seeds.
heres 1 story of the near extinction of this squash.
Rare Squash Variety Saved From Extinction
Once a commonly grown large winter squash by many members of the Hopi tribe in the Southwest, the Hopi Pale Grey squash very nearly became extinct. First offered for sale by the Abundant Life Seeds C...
www.farmshow.com
another on my list is
montreal melon.
What Happened to Montreal’s Legendary Melon?
A medley of efforts, and one abbey's monks, may bring back the forgotten fruit.
www.atlasobscura.com
same type of extinction story
I eventually got some seeds, but they arent sprouting this yr. (seeds are 6 yrs with me)
I love reading about some crop that has all but disappeared.
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Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
reminds me of hopi pale grey squash.
I looked for seed forever.
then 1 day I saw seedsavers, have it for the first time.
I snatched up some and they were sold out fast.
since then, I have sent the seeds to anyone who asked.
one friend got free seeds from me
and the next yr she is selling them online
big squash. 6-20 lbs.. lotsa seeds.
heres 1 story of the near extinction of this squash.
Rare Squash Variety Saved From Extinction
Once a commonly grown large winter squash by many members of the Hopi tribe in the Southwest, the Hopi Pale Grey squash very nearly became extinct. First offered for sale by the Abundant Life Seeds C...www.farmshow.com
another on my list is
montreal melon.
same type of extinction story
I eventually got some seeds, but they arent sprouting this yr. (seeds are 6 yrs with me)
I love reading about some crop that has all but disappeared.
Hopi Pale Grey has been on my list, but haven't been able to source any yet.
When do they need to go in the ground?
Your post says something many people don't think about... our gardens are links in chains of memory and love, as well, as ways to feed our families.
My parents didn't grow a vegetable garden... both children of the Depression, who lived a good life thanks to very hard work and Dad's good job (despite only a high school education...with mom's "encouragement " he worked his way up into "the phone company "(At&t, before they were broken up in the antitrust suit) to a management position 2 steps below vice president. He would have been much happier working as an installer repairman, as he had started. But he loved us, and coped)... they were able to buy all the food they wanted. And Dad's parents owned a 2 acre market garden when he was in his early teens, and he never wanted to see another tomato plant!
But I still remember his helping me plant one spring after I'd had back surgery... and I knew it was a labor of love. (I also laugh every time I remember it, because he surely was NOT a gardener. He was planting zinnia seeds... I interplant flowers in my vegetable gardens to help attract pollinators, and for soul food. However, the seed company obviously goofed... what came up, and flourished, were tomatillos! And for years afterwards, I remembered planting with Dad, and how he didn't know a tomatillo from a zinnia seed... asci pulled millions of volunteers!
Our kids did the requisite complaining about helping, and in high-school grumbled about how backwards I was.. "mom cooks from scratch... by first going out to the garden and digging the potatoes" was a common snarky remark from our second son. They thought food was cheap (and it wasn't bad in the mid 1990s... I think you could still find 10# of potatoes for a buck on sale) and I was wasting my time growing and canning and freezing and root cellaring.
Then they got out on their own... and Lo and behold! "Mom, do you have any extra of those good Yukon Gold potatoes? 5he ones in the store are awful!"
All of them can afford any food they want... they all buy beef, pork and chicken from us. Our daughter has said her family would probably just eat vegetarian if we stop growing beef and chicken... they find the commercial stuff to be nearly inedible.
Now, we're making memories with the granddaughters. The little three year old asked me yesterday if I was going to grow "those yummy yellow watermelons" again. Apparently, they made an impression because of their weird color... and incredible sweetness. They are all hoping we get enough this year to make more watermelon popsicles... a real treat on a hot day.
And yes, they do help weed and harvest... and have dirt wars and spray each other-and us- with the hose!
Gardens not only feed our bodies... they feed our souls.
Summerthyme
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All vine crops should be planted after all chance of frost, and when the soil is at least 70°F. The oldtimers (who didn't have close neighbors, apparently!) were said to sit bare-assed on the dirt... if it was warm enough to be comfortable, it was warm enough to plant the heat loving crops... squash, beans, corn.
You can start them indoors, but NOT too early. A 2-3 week head start is plenty. And plant them in something that lets you transplant without damaging their roots... it sets them back badly. Paper cups, Jiffy pellets work well.
Last year, I tried some biodegradable fiber bags from Temu... you fill them with potting soil, plant your seeds, and when it's time, plant the entire thing. Sort of like using the peat pots they sell, but these don't "wick" moisture from the roots. I'll be using them again.
Summerthyme
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I can send some seeds 30? just pay shipping.. canada post
prolly $3.50ish
pm me with details
I,m in ontario canada
like summer says.. after frost date.
After the temps were warm.. carefully sprouted those old butter beans in damp paper towels... we then gently planted them...
Since then we have started sprouting the snow peas and green beans..it really gets things off to running start.
Mammy's husband Mr. Dickens...taught me to dry plant three seeds....one for the weather...one for the bugs and one for me.
Since then we have started sprouting the snow peas and green beans..it really gets things off to running start.
Mammy's husband Mr. Dickens...taught me to dry plant three seeds....one for the weather...one for the bugs and one for me.
Here is a place that has a lot of the rare squash among many other things. Somebody gave me this link years ago and I thought I got it from someone here. I love their farm and their dedication to saving rare and hard to find plants and seeds. Be sure to take a look around their entire site if you have time.
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I have seen that site before, but now it's bookmarked.
Thanks!
And bless 'em for their efforts!
Flippper
Time Traveler
I noticed that canned beans such as navy, kidney, garbanzo etc., were apparently sprayed with Roundup-even the canned ones. Our grain is soaked in Roundup, it makes me super ill, causes my joints to swell and hurt, and I get a handy case of edema even if I eat a small amount of anything w/Roundup on/in it. I also get severe acid reflux/heartburn from Roundup coated 'food', one of the main reasons I went keto.
Would Roundup prevent germination?
Would Roundup prevent germination?
Yeah, canned beans are made from dried beans, so most are probably sprayed. It's nuts.
Roundup itself shouldn't prevent germination, but it causes plants to die and dry down even if immature. Immature seeds won't sprout.
Summerthyme
You've just described me to a T but I've not been able to make the connection up til now. While most of my beans are home grown and canned, my crackers, bread, four, meal, etc. are not. I've always assumed anything organic would not be sprayed with Roundup. Now I wonder if that assumption is correct.
My son just got rid of all those same symptoms by going on an extrememly strict diet eating only meat, eggs and very few vegetables....just baked potatoes, broccoli, and salads...nothing processed. He also eats keto yogurt. He's lost about fifty pounds and since he's tall and big boned, he's going to get too thin if he loses more but his acid reflux is so much better, he refuses to add more foods back. His aches and pains are gone too along with the extra fluid he was retaining. He was just a tiny bit overweight and that may have all been fluid.
I followed a few of the things he's been doing and have been able to get off the reflux meds...that was his big goal to begin with. I need to do some Roundup research.
Edited to add...I'm not sure about Roundup and germination.
pauldingbabe
The Great Cat
I've gotten completely side tracked from the germination issue lol. I did get all my starts finished yesterday, over 400 but 1/3 are flowers. It takes over my whole dining room so hopefully, I will get the tests started today.This has become a very interesting thread...
Haven't started the germination test yet. Hopefully I'll be able to start it soon.
Last night I opened up a quart jar of pinto beans for supper for DH and I. It was from a few years ago and I found it when I did my yearly inventory and rearranging of my home canned stuff. I couldn't believe the difference in texture, taste and appearance from the pintos I've canned recently. They just smelled so good too.
Thank you pauldingbabe!
bracketquant
Veteran Member
On the subject of germination, fresh pepper seeds, either home grown or commercial purchases, can sometimes have zero germination.
It is believed, by some, that these seeds are not fully mature. Therefore, I let peppers, that are going to be used only for seed collecting, hang on a plant until overripe, where they get soft and wrinkly. And, if one is growing multiple varieties and wishes to save pure seed, it is best to "bag blossoms" on the ones selected for seed saving.
It is believed, by some, that these seeds are not fully mature. Therefore, I let peppers, that are going to be used only for seed collecting, hang on a plant until overripe, where they get soft and wrinkly. And, if one is growing multiple varieties and wishes to save pure seed, it is best to "bag blossoms" on the ones selected for seed saving.
I bot some peppers at the store.
a bag of small peppers.
no idea what they were.
but, I loved them so I saved some seed.
they were the first to sprout in my lite room.
they look hearty and very green.
usually, my starts are pale green, lime color.
its only flourescent lites.
had somebody here the other day, and she said "they look plastic"
about 6 in high rite now
with small buds already
I just ordered three packets of the Sieva seeds from this company. I know nothing about the company and found them in a search so I'm taking a chance but they look legitimate so I gambled with $20 lol. It looks like they have lots of interesting stuff so I'll be checking back with them when things slow down a little.
They look a lot like the beans they grew in Mississippi where DH is from and they had the best taste. I love that they are pole beans and grow as prolifically as my pink eye purple hulls do. After the roundup discussion, I'd like to grow every bean or pea we eat. I'm already close.
trueloveseeds.com
They look a lot like the beans they grew in Mississippi where DH is from and they had the best taste. I love that they are pole beans and grow as prolifically as my pink eye purple hulls do. After the roundup discussion, I'd like to grow every bean or pea we eat. I'm already close.
Sieva Carolina Lima Bean
Sieva Carolina Lima Bean was grown at Thomas Jefferson's Monticello before 1750. Small white seeds with great flavor, grow 3-4 per pod on tall vigorous vines. Days to maturity: 65-80 Seeds per pack: 25 Germination rate: 92% on 12/21/23 Planting / harvesting notes Plant in warm soil at least a...
trueloveseeds.com
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I've always been told the seeds aren't good until the pepper changes color, preferably on the stem, and I've found that to be true, for the most part. I have let a store bought pepper change color and have gotten viable seeds from it but I only grow sweet peppers so I can't speak for the hot varieties.
That may change since DH developed a taste for hot peppers after he had covid. He was working with a crew of young hispanic guys whose wives/girlfriends sent them to work with home cooked lunches and they insisted on sharing with him. DH eats peanut butter and jelly sandwiches every single day for breakfast and lunch on the days he works and has for over fifty years. I think they felt sorry for him lol.
tnphil
Don't screw with an engineer
Some are hybrids and won't germinate or grow true. But yes, at least let the pepper ripen. Letting it dry naturally helps.
I'm so glad to hear that. I've been thinking It may have just been my selection of beans. I intended to order some organic ones because there are none on the shelves anywhere near me except the health food stores in the city and their stock is not always the freshest.
bracketquant
Veteran Member
The stock in the store should always be fresh enough to plant. Two and a half years from harvest is about the maximum age for beans meant for eating. Toughness issues, as mentioned in posts above, then become a problem with older beans.
Beans for planting are usually very good for 4 -5 years, stored at room temp (about 70-72 degrees).
I’ve read that each year, the viability of non-hybrid seed decreases by about 20%. So after 5 years or so, you’d get nothing at all.
bracketquant
Veteran Member
Seed viability is essentially the same for hybrid and open pollinated seeds. Viability varies the greatest by the type of seed.
Parsnips one year, onions and carrots about 2 years, lettuce and corn about 3 years, beans, tomatoes, peppers, peas, melons, watermelons, and many other things have about 4, up to 7, years, all under normal storage conditions.
Blackberry seeds are estimated to be viable for about 200 years. I've seen places clear cut of 50+ year old trees, that had no previous blackberry canes in my lifetime. Once cleared, the canes started sprouting.
And, on the subject of beans, there are no hybrid varieties, other than tiny amounts used by plant breeders. After about seven years of selecting and growing out a hybrid, it then becomes a stable variety.
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
So, to start I had a bag of 16 bean soup mix from Aldi's.
Soaked a handful overnight, and they've been on a damp paper towel inside a ziplock bag on the counter for 4 days.
Most appear to have sprouted, some are quite vigorous, with long roots already.
Looks like the collection includs: Garbanzos, Large Lima, Baby Lima, Small Black, Kidney, Green Peas, Pintos, some sort of freckled bean, black eyed peas, Lentils, Navy beans, and so on. Bunch of varieties.
I may try to stick 'em in the garden tomorrow, just for the heck of it.
Who knows? Maybe the Aldi's 16 bean soup mix constitutes a "Survival Garden Seed Bank" in a bag, just replace every year for fresh seed. Less than $2, iirc.
So far, so good.
Soaked a handful overnight, and they've been on a damp paper towel inside a ziplock bag on the counter for 4 days.
Most appear to have sprouted, some are quite vigorous, with long roots already.
Looks like the collection includs: Garbanzos, Large Lima, Baby Lima, Small Black, Kidney, Green Peas, Pintos, some sort of freckled bean, black eyed peas, Lentils, Navy beans, and so on. Bunch of varieties.
I may try to stick 'em in the garden tomorrow, just for the heck of it.
Who knows? Maybe the Aldi's 16 bean soup mix constitutes a "Survival Garden Seed Bank" in a bag, just replace every year for fresh seed. Less than $2, iirc.
So far, so good.
I will be buying beans at Aldi next time I get to the city...thanks! My closest Kroger is 60 miles away and I never go in that direction. My options are so limited here. One way or the other, I plan to have a row of pintos in my garden this year but I'll have to break new ground to do it, something I said I wouldn't be doing again.So, to start I had a bag of 16 bean soup mix from Aldi's.
Soaked a handful overnight, and they've been on a damp paper towel inside a ziplock bag on the counter for 4 days.
Most appear to have sprouted, some are quite vigorous, with long roots already.
Looks like the collection includs: Garbanzos, Large Lima, Baby Lima, Small Black, Kidney, Green Peas, Pintos, some sort of freckled bean, black eyed peas, Lentils, Navy beans, and so on. Bunch of varieties.
I may try to stick 'em in the garden tomorrow, just for the heck of it.
Who knows? Maybe the Aldi's 16 bean soup mix constitutes a "Survival Garden Seed Bank" in a bag, just replace every year for fresh seed. Less than $2, iirc.
So far, so good.
I think it's safe to say, my assumptions have been proven wrong at this point and that makes me happy. I won't be buying my two main brands any more, both the more expensive varieties available here. They have changed and not for the better. If you are looking to cook up a pot of beans that are ready in half the time it use to take, they are for you but I'd rather have the untampered with, original dried beans. I'll be working my way through several pounds of these first, great northern and pinto. I'll start tonight with great northerns, corn bread and slaw, a match made in heaven!
I like the Casserole brand pinto beans. They are usually light in color, which often means they are fresher. Hubby likes the Camellia brand for other beans. I need to can up some more pintos for us too. I used up several jars of home canned stuff the last couple of days with company here.
We used to buy beans from a fruit stand. He got them in 50 pound sacks. They were grown in Colorado. They were the best beans we have found. But that old man has passed. They have some bulk beans in the local store in Russellville, but people and kids handle and play in them all the time, so I don't buy them.
We used to buy beans from a fruit stand. He got them in 50 pound sacks. They were grown in Colorado. They were the best beans we have found. But that old man has passed. They have some bulk beans in the local store in Russellville, but people and kids handle and play in them all the time, so I don't buy them.
Thanks Digger, I'll try both of those. I was always taught to get the lighter colored pintos for the same reason. I can't do the bulk beans either. I've seen too many kids lift that lid and put their sweet but grubby little hands in them.
Back when I was trying to get a canned pinto with the same texture as my mother's, I canned a few jars of every brand I could get my hands on and then slowly worked my way through every single one, looking for the holy grail...we ate a lot of beans during that phase but no holy grail.