ECON Bitcoin vs. Gold
- Thread starter alchemike
- Start date
von Koehler
Has No Life - Lives on TB
No electricity, no Bitcoin
No Internet, no Bitcoin
Need we say more?
No Internet, no Bitcoin
Need we say more?
you could say a whole lot but all you want to say is no electric no btc.
exactly
Groucho
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Does anybody else see the irony of Bitcoin on a TEOTWAWKI oriented board? At least once a month Coronal Mass Ejections are discussed. Then there's the EMP discussions that Dennis really seems to like. Face it, if any of this or other SHTF doom porn happens, Bitcoin will no longer exist.
the computer you just typed on is basically operated by an intangible (software and electricity). the computer programs large and small which are used literally everywhere must have internet and electricity to operate. would anyone like to use a manual typewriter instead of their computer? rely on one or two newspaper for all your news?
you can't "touch or hold" your software, most spending is with credit/debit cards and a few others on smart phones and nobody blinks an eye. think holding that small piece of plastic means anything or is it the coding that transfers the data over the internet that allows you pay for your tank of gas...
tangible or not is a completely pointless thing
It is important that we be able to keep and hold what is viewed as money I.E. not computer generated imaginary such as bit coin. As of now governments around the world have moved to embrace this electronic form currency to replace all other forms of coin of the realm that we have.
To the tech savvy Bitcoin is seemingly a good investment. I figure this may be because they believe that there will always be some form of internet and or electronic service in some form. I am not one to say that there will not be or that BC will not pan out as a good investment. It may well become “The” currency someday. Who knows. If it does there will those of us who wished we had some ahead of time.
If the grid was down you might be able go to Freds house, whip out your your Bitcoin wallet and buy something from Fred directly “If” Fred had a way to accept your Bitcoin and put it in his BC wallet. Could be done completely outside of the system. But doing it online in the future as the dollar dies, may become problematic once they tighten the reins and controls of the internet to where you are required to have a digital ID and Social Credit Score to use the net and or make any financial transactions. And of course we know that anything that happens on the net is not private. And as said above it requires electricity as does Fred to be able to accept your bitcoin even outside of the system.
I would think that if Bitcoin were going to be kept as a means of currency for a individual in the future you might want to consider the area you are in. How many people are there that are willing and able to take it as payment and other considerations.
In the part of the country where we live if I went to the local rancher and said I will give you this much of a bitcoin for a side of beef, well I could just imagine the response. On the other hand if I had a ounce of gold or a hand full of silver to trade for the beef it would be a much more harmonious outcome. Some of the ranchers here have never been on the internet and still read the actual newspaper, no cell phone and never touched a computer.
Its my opinion to stick to what you know.
If you dont understand Bitcoin and how it works then stick to PMs.
I look at gold in the value of the gold itself.
How much goods a ounce of gold or ounce of silver would buy if there was no functioning currency. Not in $ amounts. I know a lot of folks are concerned daily with what the dollar value of gold, or Bitcoin is on a given day. But as the $ value goes up the amount of goods those $ will buy when you sell your PMs for $, goes down. The old saying that a ounce of gold will buy as many bushels of wheat today as it did when Jesus walked the earth might not be a entirely accurate statement but it gives you the idea of how gold works
ETA: My opinions above are from the standpoint of a dying economy and civilization not from the standpoint that all is good and everything will keep functioning as it does today.
If the grid was down you might be able go to Freds house, whip out your your Bitcoin wallet and buy something from Fred directly “If” Fred had a way to accept your Bitcoin and put it in his BC wallet. Could be done completely outside of the system. But doing it online in the future as the dollar dies, may become problematic once they tighten the reins and controls of the internet to where you are required to have a digital ID and Social Credit Score to use the net and or make any financial transactions. And of course we know that anything that happens on the net is not private. And as said above it requires electricity as does Fred to be able to accept your bitcoin even outside of the system.
I would think that if Bitcoin were going to be kept as a means of currency for a individual in the future you might want to consider the area you are in. How many people are there that are willing and able to take it as payment and other considerations.
In the part of the country where we live if I went to the local rancher and said I will give you this much of a bitcoin for a side of beef, well I could just imagine the response. On the other hand if I had a ounce of gold or a hand full of silver to trade for the beef it would be a much more harmonious outcome. Some of the ranchers here have never been on the internet and still read the actual newspaper, no cell phone and never touched a computer.
Its my opinion to stick to what you know.
If you dont understand Bitcoin and how it works then stick to PMs.
I look at gold in the value of the gold itself.
How much goods a ounce of gold or ounce of silver would buy if there was no functioning currency. Not in $ amounts. I know a lot of folks are concerned daily with what the dollar value of gold, or Bitcoin is on a given day. But as the $ value goes up the amount of goods those $ will buy when you sell your PMs for $, goes down. The old saying that a ounce of gold will buy as many bushels of wheat today as it did when Jesus walked the earth might not be a entirely accurate statement but it gives you the idea of how gold works
ETA: My opinions above are from the standpoint of a dying economy and civilization not from the standpoint that all is good and everything will keep functioning as it does today.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
And currently bitcoin can only be redeemed in dollar or other fiat currencies which are collapsing. BTC has value now, will it in the future? Nobody really knows. What about gold and silver? Do we value them in dollars or fiat as most do or do we value them in ounces? I value them in the latter.
The dollar was just a term used to describe a certain number of grains of silver or gold. The coinage act of 1792 says that the dollar was 417 grains of standard silver (alloy) which is equivalent to a one ounce coin and a gold $10 eagle as an example was 270 grains of standard gold. The dollar meant a coin’s weight in grains of metal.
That was then but this is today. What we do have is history spanning thousands of years for metallic coinage whereas BTC has a history of perhaps 15 years and has never endured a economic/fiscal implosion. For BTC or even an official CBDC to retain any value at the very least one thing we do know is the electrical grid and internet needs to remain viable for the common man (woman) to be able to meaningfully access and use it in commerce.
With the world and governments basically bankrupt I’d have to lay the odds on more degradation of infrastructure than of maintaining it and building it out. Maybe history will be different this time but I wouldn’t bet on it and that (imo) is exactly what one does if they put more into crypto than they can afford to lose. Great speculation that has made some paper wealth rich but will it endure the test of time? We shall see.
Last edited:
alchemike
Veteran Member
Another irony is the misunderstanding about Bitcoin and the electrical grid.
So much bullshit media about Bitcoin's energy usage, but it actually is a stabilizing force for electrical grids, as demonstrated in Texas earlier this winter.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The late Brad Jones, former CEO ERCOT (the guy who ran the grid of Texas) said in 2023 that Bitcoin mining:
1. Makes renewable operators more profitable
2. Accelerates the renewable transition
3. Does not compete with other users of electricity
4. Drives electricity costs for all users DOWN
Here are the details of his statement:
1. Makes renewable operators more profitable: “In the last 2 years there was 1100 hours of negative pricing. That means we are paying consumers to consume electricity. The reason that occurs is that we have a lot of renewables in the State. When the wind is really blowing, we simply can’t use all that power. Bitcoin allows those renewables to earn money during those times rather than having to shut off their service, or even having to pay customers to use their power.”
2. Assists the renewable transition: “Bitcoin mining helps to sustain those markets for renewables and drives more renewables.”
3. Does not compete with other users of electricity: “When prices go up [because many people want power at the same time], Bitcoin comes offline because its not economical.”
4. Drives the down cost of electricity for all consumers: “The real value of Bitcoin is its flexibility. The capability for us to use it in our ancillary services at the lowest possible cost means lower cost for all consumers of in the state of Texas.”
Source: View: https://twitter.com/DSBatten/status/1651749636888227842
Peer-reviewed academic studies that support Brad Jones' direct experience.
Points 1& 2: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.3c05445
Point3: https://mdpi.com/2078-1547/14/3/35
Point4: https://mdpi.com/2078-1547/14/4/47
So much bullshit media about Bitcoin's energy usage, but it actually is a stabilizing force for electrical grids, as demonstrated in Texas earlier this winter.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The late Brad Jones, former CEO ERCOT (the guy who ran the grid of Texas) said in 2023 that Bitcoin mining:
1. Makes renewable operators more profitable
2. Accelerates the renewable transition
3. Does not compete with other users of electricity
4. Drives electricity costs for all users DOWN
Here are the details of his statement:
1. Makes renewable operators more profitable: “In the last 2 years there was 1100 hours of negative pricing. That means we are paying consumers to consume electricity. The reason that occurs is that we have a lot of renewables in the State. When the wind is really blowing, we simply can’t use all that power. Bitcoin allows those renewables to earn money during those times rather than having to shut off their service, or even having to pay customers to use their power.”
2. Assists the renewable transition: “Bitcoin mining helps to sustain those markets for renewables and drives more renewables.”
3. Does not compete with other users of electricity: “When prices go up [because many people want power at the same time], Bitcoin comes offline because its not economical.”
4. Drives the down cost of electricity for all consumers: “The real value of Bitcoin is its flexibility. The capability for us to use it in our ancillary services at the lowest possible cost means lower cost for all consumers of in the state of Texas.”
Source: View: https://twitter.com/DSBatten/status/1651749636888227842
Peer-reviewed academic studies that support Brad Jones' direct experience.
Points 1& 2: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.3c05445
Point3: https://mdpi.com/2078-1547/14/3/35
Point4: https://mdpi.com/2078-1547/14/4/47
Groucho
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I'm not against BC. I actually think it's a neat idea. It does seem to rhyme with the Dutch tulip frenzy/bubble back in the 1600's, though.
I'm not totally for PM's. However, they have stood the test of time.
I have liked dollars for most of my life, but I realize that the dollar's time is drawing to a close thanks to Washington and big bank fools.
What I am in favor of is the Alpha Strategy. I've mentioned this over the years. The basic tenet is buy, use, and store things you need. Shovels are good to have if you're going to need a hole. It goes on. If you have the things that make life livable on hand and stored, you beat inflation and a declining economy. If it all goes down and I need to put in a garden is my gold coin going to be any good? The rake, shovel, pick, etc will be far more important than a shiny disc.
Anyhow, here's a link to the "Alpha Strategy." https://dn790008.ca.archive.org/0/items/the-alpha-strategy/The Alpha STRATEGY.pdf
eta, it's also necessary to have a few friends. If I hadn't lost those coins when the boat sank, I wouldn't get rid of them now. Alas, Davy Jones wins again. I see why it was good that I stayed out of the Navy.
I'm not totally for PM's. However, they have stood the test of time.
I have liked dollars for most of my life, but I realize that the dollar's time is drawing to a close thanks to Washington and big bank fools.
What I am in favor of is the Alpha Strategy. I've mentioned this over the years. The basic tenet is buy, use, and store things you need. Shovels are good to have if you're going to need a hole. It goes on. If you have the things that make life livable on hand and stored, you beat inflation and a declining economy. If it all goes down and I need to put in a garden is my gold coin going to be any good? The rake, shovel, pick, etc will be far more important than a shiny disc.
Anyhow, here's a link to the "Alpha Strategy." https://dn790008.ca.archive.org/0/items/the-alpha-strategy/The Alpha STRATEGY.pdf
eta, it's also necessary to have a few friends. If I hadn't lost those coins when the boat sank, I wouldn't get rid of them now. Alas, Davy Jones wins again. I see why it was good that I stayed out of the Navy.
Last edited:
alchemike
Veteran Member
You are correct I hated old typewriters....I do love my notebooks.... paper and pen..or pencil and eraser.... much easier to correct a mistake...and private not on the web...is an added bonus
Look at all the mess yesterday without cell phones... makes you go hum.....
Some couldn't even call 911....
Sure glad I have a landline and an old princess phone or 2 lying around..yea I love the walk around phones....but there have been times I had to use those old princess phones and by golly they worked..
So let's say they give us a digital currency and the web and or the electricity go down will you have no money..brings to mind... You will own nothing and be happy...right easy for them to take it...hum
Look at all the mess yesterday without cell phones... makes you go hum.....
Some couldn't even call 911....
Sure glad I have a landline and an old princess phone or 2 lying around..yea I love the walk around phones....but there have been times I had to use those old princess phones and by golly they worked..
So let's say they give us a digital currency and the web and or the electricity go down will you have no money..brings to mind... You will own nothing and be happy...right easy for them to take it...hum
alchemike
Veteran Member
This is the best thing I've watched all day. Fox Business surprised Natalie Brunell with goldbug, Peter Schiff, and she handled it wonderfully.
The smartest, coolest people on the planet understand Bitcoin and how revolutionary it truly is.
The smartest, coolest people on the planet understand Bitcoin and how revolutionary it truly is.
LYKURGOS
No Surrender, No Defeat!
My Daughter works in OKC for OG&E. Their largest client???? a Crypto Mining company. The amount of Energy used for this operation is staggering. Currently one location is being fed by 7 or 8 substations. Several of them are not even stepped down but pumped right into the Crypto processing center. I can only imagine how much Natural Gas is being convertered to electricity for this to work.
If it remains profitable then great. Otherwise it is a huge investment of capital infrastructure for something that may or may not last.
My interest in Crypto would be a stable digital value storage, ease of use, and anonymity . Until it is mature enough to be all those things I'm not interested. Money is supposed to have those items, digital sleuthing by nosy governments defeats the purpose, and gaining dollar value does not interest me. Currently it peforms more like a stock with no P/E ratio.
If it remains profitable then great. Otherwise it is a huge investment of capital infrastructure for something that may or may not last.
My interest in Crypto would be a stable digital value storage, ease of use, and anonymity . Until it is mature enough to be all those things I'm not interested. Money is supposed to have those items, digital sleuthing by nosy governments defeats the purpose, and gaining dollar value does not interest me. Currently it peforms more like a stock with no P/E ratio.
Loretta Van Riet
Trying to hang out with the cool kids.
WOW. I really enjoyed that debate! LOL, Analog vs Digital wealth.
paul bunyan
Frostbite Falls, Minnesota
Hard to eat your gold. Stick with beans and "bullets" !
Johnny Twoguns
Senior Member
An asteroid hits the earth. Almost all of mankind is wiped out. 5000 years from now some hot cave girl walks into the cave wearing some gold and silver jewelry. Another hot cave babe, already there and cooking dinner looks up and says "hey, that's really pretty, where did you get that? Is there any more?"
Then it all starts over again.
Then it all starts over again.
BUBBAHOTEPT
Veteran Member
Yep, I have a say, no electricity and I ain’t worried about Bitcoin. In fact, it will be the last thing on my mind….
So will equities, bank accounts, etc…
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Or, for those who only think in black and white terms you can do both. It isn't necessarily an either/or proposition.
For that matter, martial law, no Bitcoin
Your post is a non sequitur. The software operates within a tangible device. No device, no software. It’s like a car. You know that something is happening under the hood when you start it and drive, but it’s all intangible. However, the car is not.
bracketquant
Veteran Member
We need say more.
No electricity, no 20th/21st century living standard. Not having Bitcoin, or the internet, would be the least of our problems.
Got clay tablets?
BUBBAHOTEPT
Veteran Member
I’ll tell you too, I’ll be watching out for those damn Sea Peoples as well.
Folks, we are all trying to hedge our bets because this situation is out of control: 34 trillion and counting.
And Mr MaGoo is literally in charge. Or as I like to say: THE DEMOCRATS…..
bracketquant
Veteran Member
Is that you, Minnesota Smith?
West
Senior
Okay, good stuff....
Continue...
Then a short dark haired and big nose banker walks into the scene and is a gold Smith, that at first just fabricates jewelry. Because hes ugly and weakly and wins the women over with jewelry. But then he starts holding PMs for customers, next thing you know he's loaning fiat notes on the value he has in the safe that is other people's assets.
Then it all starts over again.
Just to clear it up for newbies.
Great Northwet
Veteran Member
I was watching this in a commissary in a dorm while having lunch and noticed some of the students got quiet and were listening. It creeped me out so I found a bathroom to listen to it.
Do you think, really, that's likely to happen?
I don't want to rain on anyone's doom parade, but...
You forgot mayonnaise! He likes that too!
It goes, and in a year 90% of the population is dead. Plenty of land, gold, silver, et cetera to go around.
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
Most FRNs are now digital!
packyderms_wife
Neither here nor there.
I’m on my phone otherwise I’d link to Dennis thread a couple of weeks ago when USSA went down and he couldn’t pay his dental bill.
It will convert to whatever the currency of the realm is.
And, it's more like sides of beef per coin.