X-Class Flare?

chairborne commando

Membership Revoked
My little notification sign is showing an X-Class flare has occurred.
(n3kl.org) Would one of the resident experts opine as to whats up?

I am inferring that it's headed away from us, since the Geomagnetic
report shows quiet. :shr:
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
Also, I recall reading somewhere that the predicted time for the big spots to face us is around July 20th. So, there could be more.

David
 

2redroses

Senior Member
I am inferring that it's headed away from us, since the Geomagnetic
report shows quiet.


How do you know that it is going away from us? I just saw this also on spaceweather.com and made the assumption that it was going to be coming at us since the sunspot is facing towards us.

I didn't know if the sun flare posts were being made here or where? with the new board setup, and posted my article on the main board. (oops)

I would also be interested in our resident experts opinions on these flares -
in addition to the usual terrorist concerns, I have campers out in this sunspot activity!

spaceweather.com
X-FLARE: Earth-orbiting satellites detected a powerful X2-class solar flare at approximately 0140 UT on July 15th. The explosion came from sunspot 649. Stay tuned for more information.
 

chairborne commando

Membership Revoked
I couldn't read one of these charts if my life depended on it. That's why
I always ask one of the members who DO know, to interpret them.

It has been my experience that X-Classc flares are inevitably accompanied
(or maybe its the other way around) by Geomagnetic storms and, inclement
weather, later, if headed this way. Thats why I was tentative. I don't know,
but I wan't to know, you know? ;)
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
If I recall correctly, even an X class flare still takes about 48-72 hours to reach Earth, assuming it's aimed at us.

Principally, it is electromagnetic in nature, goofing up satellites and power plants were it large enough. Based on the graph, this looks big and definitely unusual as we are supposed to be heading toward a solar slowdown. However, I don't think it is anything to worry about if you're a camper. And it may not even be big enough to disrupt any communications.

As an aside, and I don't mean to scare anyone because I haven't researched this, I do recall someone (maybe Jim McCanney) saying that Russia was hit with a very big X-class flare in the mid-1990s and this did lead to an increase in cancer rates. Again, I've seen no concrete evidence to support this. And, the current flare appears to be much smaller. The one we have now is big, and out of season, but it wouldn't be too uncommon historically. After all, the X-class was created because there have been enough of these during solar maximums to warrant a new category.

Finally, no, I am by not by any means an expert on this. I'm just passing along what I've been able to pick up. So, I will definitely defer to anyone with more experience and understanding of X-class flares.

David
 

thunderlight

Veteran Member
X-FLARE! Earth-orbiting satellites detected a powerful X2-class solar flare at 0140 UT on July 15th (6:40 p.m. PDT on July 14th). The explosion, which came from sunspot 649, might have hurled a coronal mass ejection (CME) toward Earth. If so, it could reach our planet as early as July 16th and spark auroras when it arrives. Stay tuned for updates.

http://www.spaceweather.com/

midi140.gif



Fortunately, it is near the solar limb, so if it does hit, will only be a glancing blow. OTOH, if it had been in the center .....

:eek:

ThunderLight
 

2redroses

Senior Member
Kimber: If I recall correctly, even an X class flare still takes about 48-72 hours to reach Earth, assuming it's aimed at us.

Thanks for the reply, :)
I'm new to this stuff also and generally uninformed - a large X-class flare last fall (don't remember which flare, we were having a spat of them) got here very quickly. It was much larger than an X-2, and there was a possibility of grid failure at the time.

I remember the short travel time period VERY clearly because someone posted the flare on the board; I was running around doing last minute "no electrical" preps, thinking I had at least 48 hours till it got here. It traveled to earth in a much shorter time period than 48 hours. (24 hours?)

Sorry I don't remember the specifics; just remember being very surprised at how fast it got here. I don't take the 48-72 hours for granted anymore on the large X-class flares.

Really appreciate those who post on sun activity as it is either not mentioned by the news media, or is glossed over on headline news. I've bookmarked many of the solar sites that others have posted, but have trouble deciphering the charts also.
 

Ellen01

Inactive
Hi All,

I checked my usual sites for this one:

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime-images.html

SOHO pictures, sunspot not that impressive yet but I've noticed they have had a tendency to grow as they reach the center of the sun. There didn't appear to be a full coronal ejection with this one but the x-class flare this morning didn't cause the bright ray in the 7 - 10 o'clock position to reduce at all so I'm guessing there could be more

http://www.sel.noaa.gov/alerts/warnings_timeline.html

This site tells me the strength of the flare. If you click on the red x's, blue triangles, etc. another screen comes up. The largest flares will have a type II radio signal. The larger the flare the faster it travels and the sooner the effects of it reaches the earth. This x-flare didn't even register one. The huge x-28 flare from last October was traveling over 2000 km/second. That's why it got here so fast!

Also, only the larger flares emit protons. At the first link, the box to the right in the bottom row measures these. There was an M-7 flare earlier in the week that registered a little one. The October flare went off the chart. That was quite impressive! And oh, the aurora when that one hit our atmosphere was spectacular!

Im not concerned yet, but I'm watching for any development.

Us earthlings here on the ground do not have too much to worry about from CME's. Our magnetic field (albeit diminishing), atmosphere, and ozone shield us from the effects of these. Now our astronauts and people in airplanes can be affected. I read somewhere that after the October flare people in airplanes received the equivalent of 10 chest x-rays and supposedly the astronauts in the space station have a shielded room they can go to.

I have an article somewhere about a flare in 1859 that melted the telegraph wires and started fires. I'll see if I can find it.
 

north runner

Membership Revoked
Just an X2. >yawn<

although I was trying to remember some theory about earth's geomagnetic field developing holes during a pole reversal. It seemed like the movie The Core exploited it when the SF bay bridge was microwaved.
Not very realistic :lol:
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
Looks like a couple more small X-class flares (see below). Today's Spaceweather.com forecast:

AURORA WATCH: Sunspot 649 has produced three X-class solar flares: two on July 15th (0141 UT and 1824 UT) and one, so far, on July 16th (0206 UT). None of these explosions hurled a coronal mass ejection directly toward Earth, so the chances for bright auroras remain low despite the high solar activity.
 

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Kimber

Membership Revoked
As for Spot 649:

SOLAR OUTLOOK: Strong solar activity should continue for days to come. Sunspot 649 has a tangled "beta-gamma-delta" magnetic field that harbors energy for more X-class solar flares. Meanwhile, another big sunspot appears to be hidden on the far side of the sun. Solar rotation will carry it over the sun's eastern limb, and into plain view, as soon as July 17th.
 

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linttrap

Contributing Member
Another really good site for interpretation of solar terrestrial activity is Jan Alvestad's at:

http://www.dxlc.com/solar/

Unfortunately, he is on vacation until the 26th!

But bookmark it for reference in the future, if you want a good interpretation of the data coming in!

Linttrap
 

Ellen01

Inactive
Jan is usually on vacation when anything interesting is happening on the sun! LOL. Here's another interpretation site I sometimes use when he is gone but they are a lot slower with their information:

http://www.spacew.com/

SOHO has only updated MDI pictures (see link above). I want to see that sunspot coming around the eastern edge!
 

Ellen01

Inactive
Finally found that article about the 1859 solar storm. Fair Use.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_031027.html

The Great Storm: Solar Tempest of 1859 Revealed
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer
posted: 06:00 am ET
27 October 2003



A pair of strong solar storms that hit Earth late last week were squalls compared to the torrent of electrons that rained down in the "perfect space storm" of 1859. And sooner or later, experts warn, the Sun will again conspire again send earthlings a truly destructive bout of space weather.

If it happens anytime soon, we won't know exactly what to expect until it's over, and by then some modern communication systems could be like beachfront houses after a hurricane.

In early September in 1859, telegraph wires suddenly shorted out in the United States and Europe, igniting widespread fires. Colorful aurora, normally visible only in polar regions, were seen as far south as Rome and Hawaii.

The event 144 years ago was three times more powerful than the strongest space storm in modern memory, one that cut power to an entire Canadian province in 1989. A new account of the 1859 event, from research led by Bruce Tsurutani of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, details the most powerful onslaught of solar energy in recorded history.

Solar conspiracy

Space storms are created when the Sun erupts, sending charged particles racing outward, an expanding bubble of hot gas called plasma.

In 1859, four crucial events conspired at one moment, Tsurutani told SPACE.com.

"The plasma blob that was ejected from the Sun hit the Earth," he said. That's a relatively routine event. What preceded the strike was more unusual. "The blob came at exceptionally high speeds. It took only 17 hours and 40 minutes to go from the Sun to Earth." Solar storms typically take two to four days to traverse the 93 million miles (150 million kilometers).

"The magnetic fields in the blob, called a coronal mass ejection, were exceptionally intense," Tsurutani said. "And the fourth, most important, ingredient was that the magnetic fields of the blob were opposite in direction from the Earth's fields."

Earth's magnetic field normally protects the surface of the planet from a continual flow of charged particles, called the solar wind, and even does a pretty good job defending against some storms. When a storm swept past Earth last Friday, it met up with magnetic field pointed in such a way that it thwarted the storm's effects. That's not always the case.

In 1859, the planet's defenses were overwhelmed.

That was then …

Society back then did not notice the storm the way it would today. The telegraph was 15 years old. There were no satellite TV feeds, no automated teller machines relying on orbiting relay stations, and no power grids.

Tsurutani said scientists can't yet accurately measure or predict what the strength or direction of Earth's magnetic field will be when a storm arrives. The storms themselves can be predicted. And Tsurutani says there will eventually be another one like 1859.

"It could very well be even more intense than what transpired in 1859," he says. "As for when, we simply do not know."

Bernhard Fleck, the European Space Agency's project scientist for the Sun-watching SOHO spacecraft, says the next super space storm will be detectable, but that's only half the story.

"A monster event of the magnitude described [by Tsurutani] we would easily recognize as something extraordinary with SOHO and other solar instruments," Fleck said in an e-mail interview. But, he added, "We certainly wouldn't know its full extent until arrival."

During the 1859 flare-up, solar observers logged almost an entire minute during which the amount of sunlight doubled at the region of the flare.

"Such a strong white-light flare has never been seen since," says Paal Brekke, SOHO deputy project scientist. "So if this type of flare happened, yes we would know right away." But he adds that the orientation of Earth's magnetic field would not be known. Future space-based observatories could address this blind spot in space weather forecasting.

Meanwhile, the blind spot became clear on Friday.

Forecasters at NOAA's Space Environment Center, relying on SOHO pictures and data, warned of an impending set of storms that could disrupt communications and might set off colorful aurora Friday and Saturday. The forecast, along with two Jupiter-sized sunspots at the roots of the storms, gained widespread media attention.

But the first and larger of the storms passed by with far less effect than one might have been led to expect. In fact, they were both comparative drops in the space weather bucket.

Extreme measures

To get an idea of the strength of the 1859 storm, you have to wade into nT's for a moment.

A space storm's impact is measured in nano-Teslas (nT), Brekke explained. The lower the figure, the more powerful the storm. A moderate storm can be around -100 nT; extreme and damaging storms have been logged at around -300 nT.

The 1989 coronal mass ejection that knocked out power to all of Quebec, Canada measured -589 nT, Brekke said. The 1859 perfect storm was estimated to have been -1,760 nT. Brekke used three exclamation points in his e-mail delivering that number.

People on the ground are generally safe even in the worst space weather. But technology could be in trouble when the next super storm hits.

"In 1859, the technology was quite low in comparison to today's technology," Tsurutani said. "However the technology that we rely on today is much more vulnerable."

A strong storm does its damage in part by inducing currents on power and communication lines, leading to potential overloads. Obviously, there are a lot more wires on Earth today, "so one might expect much worse problems if it occurred today."

The charged particles can also zap satellites, as has occurred with handful of storms in recent years -- events with far fewer charged particles than in 1859. A space storm also heats the upper level of Earth's atmosphere, causing it to expand. That's no good for satellites that can get caught up in air that didn't used to be there.

"This can lead to enhanced satellite drag and possible loss of these to the atmosphere," Tsurutani said.

Tsurutani and his colleagues -- Walter Gonzalez of the Brazilian National Space Institute and Gurbax Lakhina and Sobhana Alex of the India Institute of Geomagnetism -- reviewed known observations of the 1859 event's solar and aurora output, plus accounts from the ground. They also used recently rediscovered historic data on Earth's magnetic field from the Colaba Observatory in India.

The findings were published in a recent issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research.

This article is part of SPACE.com's weekly Mystery Monday series.

Mysteries of the Sun
Mystery Monday Archives
 
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Kimber

Membership Revoked
Picking Up.

Just got an X3 earlier today:

SOLAR FLARES: Sunspot 649 has been very active, producing five X-class solar flares since July 15th. The most powerful so far was an X3-class flare, pictured rght, at 1355 UT (6:55 a.m. PDT) on July 16th. Remarkably, none of these blasts has hurled a coronal mass ejection directly toward Earth, so the chance of bright auroras remains low despite this strong solar activity.
 

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Ellen01

Inactive
Here's hoping this works. Have any of you sun watchers seen anything like this on SOHO - looks like a hurricane!?

20040718_1906_eit_284.gif
 

lifestuff

Membership Revoked
Can't believe I said this

aaaaaahhhhhhhhhh aaaaaahhhhhhhhh AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
where all gonna die,,,AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :lol: :kk2: :bwl:
Some people can just take the fun out of DOOM,,,somedays.
 
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Ellen01

Inactive
Good evening Lifestuff

Only serious responses please. I know I've been going there for a couple of years and have seen loops of plasma but never a spiral. Anyone else who's monitored seen anything like this?
 

astrogirl

Inactive
What's THAT?!

There's certainly something brewing on Lasco2 today.

<img src="http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime/javagif/gifs_tiny/20040719_1606_c2.gif">

Look at about 10 o'clock. It's been developing for at least an hour at this point (16:06 UTC 7/19/2004 is the current photo as I post this.) I'm no expert, but I bet it's worth watching!
 
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Ellen01

Inactive
astrogirl - That's a picture of a small CME. Anytime you see something like that go here:

http://n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html

You can tell how powerful a CME is by clicking on the far left box (x-ray flux). See the date/timeline at the bottom.? The hash marks are in 3 hour increments. At the time it began, ~ 16:00, the flux was still in the C class range (rather small). Also it doesn't appear to be a full halo. I've printed out a picture from 2001 that shows a CME blowing off the sun from the north pole region to the south pole!

Lifestuff - I don't know of any other cameras up there. I have an old, slow computer so I have to just wait until they load.(drat).

penumbra - that is a biggey isn't it? I'll be watching it in the days to come.
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
Another interesting site is from the Australian Space Agency. They will likely follow the SOHO lead if anything is shut down or kept quiet. However, their main page (below) has some good quick general (real time?) information on solar conditions, geophysical conditions, and ionospheric conditions.

http://www.ips.gov.au/Main.php?CatID=2

Click on the X-ray Flares sub-category within the Solar Conditions category for an example. No pretty graphics, just data.

The other categories are also interesting, as some post warnings. Here's the current HF (high frequency) Fadeout Warning currently in effect:

SUBJ: IPS HF RADIO COMMUNICATIONS WARNING 04/28
ISSUED AT 16/2357Z JULY 2004
BY THE AUSTRALIAN SPACE FORECAST CENTRE.

HF COMMS FADEOUTS EXPECTED DURING DAYLIGHT HOURS
FROM 17-19 JULY 2004
IF COMMS DIFFICULTIES EXPERIENCED TRY A HIGHER FREQUENCY BAND

SOLAR ACTIVITY FORECAST: HF COMMS FADEOUTS
17 Jul: moderate to high: Probable
18 Jul: moderate to high: Probable
19 Jul: moderate to high: Probable
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
Nothing major . . . yet. However, we just got an M8 and these appear to come in cycles. More could follow, and I think these are directed at us.

SOLAR FLARE: Magnetic fields above giant sunspot 652 erupted today at 1230 UT, sparking an M8-class solar flare. Stay tuned for more information about a possible Earth-directed coronal mass ejection (CME)
http://spaceweather.com/
 

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lifestuff

Membership Revoked
My Shortwave Radio start getting static when flares hit.

At 12:20pm reception was behaving as it did during previous flare/cme impacts.
NOW its happening again.
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
Lifestuff,

It could have been the M-class from a couple days ago. We've had another since then (an M-9), and another could be going on right now (see below). These all appear to be pointed in our general direction.

David
 

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